Viera can't use the new Modern Aesthetics - Modern Legend

The first new hairstyle seemingly developed after the launch of the expansion and the new races can't use it. If any of you had hope these races would slowly be built up this should be a sign that you should abandon any hope of that happening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiba_Whitewolf

The first new hairstyle seemingly developed after the launch of the expansion and the new races can't use it. If any of you had hope these races would slowly be built up this should be a sign that you should abandon any hope of that happening.

---

i'm happy with how my bunny looks i dont mind on e bit thanks for letting me know thou so i dont waste money

It’s a joke. They’re still so half baked and they’ve made it clear it’s no priority of them to upgrade them. Can’t wait to see all the sycophant apologists crawl out the woodworks to shut down any genuine criticism of how SE handled the new races... I really don’t see how understand how this can keep being excused.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cylestea

i'm happy with how my bunny looks i dont mind on e bit thanks for letting me know thou so i dont waste money

---

Glad to help XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cled-cat

It’s a joke. They’re still so half baked and they’ve made it clear it’s no priority of them to upgrade them. Can’t wait to see all the sycophant apologists crawl out the woodworks to shut down any genuine criticism of how SE handled the new races... I really don’t see how understand how this can keep being excused.

---

I don't wear headgear ever and always keep it turned off. I like my hairstyle options. Do I agree they need more for both Viera and Hrothgar, yes. Am I happy my character model and face has way more polygons and details than you'll ever have? Heck yes! I will take a more detailed character model over hairstyle options and headgear. I look freaking fantastic in cutscenes.

Yeah it's a shame they really should make any new hairstyles released after ShB compatible with viera and hrothgar, you guys really did get the short end of the stick didn't you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I don't wear headgear ever and always keep it turned off. I like my hairstyle options. Do I agree they need more for both Viera and Hrothgar, yes. Am I happy my character model and face has way more polygons and details than you'll ever have? Heck yes! I will take a more detailed character model over hairstyle options and headgear. I look freaking fantastic in cutscenes.

---

Square can't use this as an excuse when independent modders have not only increased the resolution of the faces and hair on old races, but have also made in-game hairstyles work on viera. Hrothgar are more challenging due to the poor way they were designed though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiba_Whitewolf

Square can't use this as an excuse when independent modders have not only increased the resolution of the faces and hair on old races, but have also made in-game hairstyles work on viera. Hrothgar are more challenging due to the poor way they were designed though.

---

Modders don't have deadlines and stockholders breathing down their neck.

well while few of my viera fellows in this thread are okay with it, I have to say, IAM NOT. Like rly, I understand that getting back older hairstyles etc takes time but NEW hairstyles??? Not gonna lie, Im getting sick and tired of this. I dont see any reason why I as a player that decides to play a new race is sorta "punished" and left out on new things. Me and other people waited YEARS for viera and all we got is a limited race. Its not okay, no matter if x% is "okay" with it, ts garbage, thats what it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cled-cat

It’s a joke. They’re still so half baked and they’ve made it clear it’s no priority of them to upgrade them. Can’t wait to see all the sycophant apologists crawl out the woodworks to shut down any genuine criticism of how SE handled the new races... I really don’t see how understand how this can keep being excused.

---

Where did SE hurt you?

At least I don't really like the hairstyle, having switched back. I wouldn't expect any less though from SE. They are good and done with the new races, they supposedly will add new hairs someday.

As soon as I saw the preview back when they were announced for 5.1 I thought "And not available for Viera or Hrothgar"

Not surprised, would say disappointed but is it really disappointed if I was expecting it? Still sucks, though, I would have EXPECTED new hairstyles coming in 5.x would have been made to fit the new races' heads, but seeing as how there's Eden/dungeon/tome headgear we can't use...

It's actually amazing or ridiculous that people have to come out and ask is this or that hairstyle available for viera/hrothgar? Au'ra didn't have this issue so i don't understand why would they segregate this 2 new races from the existing races. It's like doing 2 times the effort for no benefits.

Those that do not wear headgears good for you but that does mean the rest of us don't glamour hats/helmets to fit certain "cosplay characters". Not having at least mogstation hats and past events hats available for the new races is already damning enough.

There must be a technical reason for it. It makes no sense otherwise. It can't just be that it's hard to physically adapt the hair, can it?

They don't like to talk about their technical limitations, but I would love to hear an honest explanation of what the issue is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

There must be a technical reason for it. It makes no sense otherwise. It can't just be that it's hard to physically adapt the hair, can it?

They don't like to talk about their technical limitations, but I would love to hear an honest explanation of what the issue is.

---

Anything from "limitations", "resources", or "patch schedule". Could probably play some bingo for whichever one, on actually anything (not) in the game.

I'm starting to think instead of totally new races, we'd have been better off with a tall Miqote subrace with longer ears and a hairy Roe subrace with pointier teeth. At least they'd be able to get haircuts and wear hats.

(and an Au ra subrace with more horns, closer to the initial concept.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ErryK

Modders don't have deadlines and stockholders breathing down their neck.

---

Modders also do not do it full-time and do not get paid for that (which closes with the first part of the sentence). They do not drive into an office as full-time fully paid game designer. Especially deadlines should mean the actual staff get something done, innit?

Stop defending such stuff. Square Enix, RIOT Games and ArenaNet always come up with ridiculous statements. I do not believe it takes hundreds of work hours (translates as 4 days full-time of one single person) for some hairstyles or headgear. ArenaNet for example says it takes 9 months to develop a set of gear. Because of the genders and such. 9 months! Let one person work 37.5 hours/week on it and take away a generous 1 month of vacation, it is 345 hours of work. And they work in teams, so go and multiply.

That would mean the current 1.0 or 2.0 hairstyles ALONE would have taken literal years alone to develop. Do you really believe that?

I do not believe a single bit what any video game company say about that. RIOT took 4 years for a replay tool - something a random guy did in his sparetime 3 years prior on his own, without support.

Haha, tell it to the marines, dude..

Sincerely,
https://imgur.com/9mjol58.png

Disappointing but not surprising. But then, I've got my eye on that stuffed Hraesvelgr anyway.

Hate to say it as I do recommend FFXIV as a top MMO out but I hope they don't pull a WoW and kill a titan project to keep FFXIV, that I hope they do intend to phase FFXIV like how they did FFXI (FF XVII their FF XIV), not to try to keep this game lasting way too long. At least if they can't get over these problems. The game is fun, the story and presentation are great, but this game's core system, it seems, could have really benefited from giving it time to gestate properly (which I'm not blaming the people who worked on this game, we know what happened in 1.0 and the herculean efforts that went into making ARR/2.0+). I say "it seems" since these core systems we are told are to blame, and I believe it since they're so complicated and deep in the game's DNA but you know.. they could be saying "impossible" to us but also already working on the possible internally (even if it's very tactfully and slowly due to the consequences that might happen if not).

Many of these being memory problems, like being being unable to add beards/eyebrows, our account bound issues on mog shop, or that the glamour log is quite limited, of course particularity for myself I've /very/ negative feelings against the housing system and it's limited supply/creativity (I've almost no positive feelings to what they've done with that system, the objects though are great- but that's in general as I feel the FF art team always nails it). I'd still play FFXIV off and on for finishing MSQ and checking out new jobs (I like the gameplay) but I'd leave for a new FF if they had made a better management of their memory for item logs and a non-limited and non-creatively restricted housing system (to the point I'm honestly having a hard time being excited for the fact they're making Ishgard housing since I still find the core house system itself just.. not good..).

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to rush the death, but I just really hope that if there is just no way for them to dig deep and adjust the deep roots in the system that they will be working on the next concepts and systems and are not planning to greatly delay the next one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Anything from "limitations", "resources", or "patch schedule". Could probably play some bingo for whichever one, on actually anything (not) in the game.

---

That's why I said "honest explanation". Though I do think those explanations are probably genuine too - they just, as I said, don't like to go into the details that would make people understand why they're making those weird choices.

Occasionally they do - somewhere I've saved a link where one of the programmers was explaining why it is hard to add more inventory due to poor decisions in the rush of getting 1.0 rebuilt into ARR that can't be easily fixed. Combined with other things I see or can guess about how the game works (eg. the glamour dresser is clearly designed to work around the original prism system without disturbing it) it seems they do a lot of adding on, building over and tangling with a core of difficult old code that they can't alter without rebuilding the whole system - and their budget and/or schedule doesn't allow for that.

I see the issue as more one of management, and circumstances with spaghetti code. Rather than lazy workers.

Is the dev team lazy/slacking off? I doubt it. Is the dev team underfunded? Quite possibly. Your average developer doesn't show up to work and say 'okay I want to work on this today.' You show up and work on what a project lead or someone else above you says is the priority.

I thin it's fairly evident they bit off more than they could chew with these two new races, and seeing what we have so far, I kind of hope they don't add anymore because they clearly can't handle the workload.

I think Yoshi P once said the problem can't be solved by just hiring more people, but I think this is only half true. Sure, new people hired have to be trained. And they need to make sure to hire people up to the task. You can't fix the dev teams problems over night. But they could be improved in the long term, when those new employees ARE trained, and producing content up to snuff with the team, etc. It's not as easy to fix as writing out a check but it can be done.

Yoshi and the team I think are probably very passionate about the game, but SE itself probably doesn't want to invest a ton of money into improving FFXIV when they can instead give it a more modest budget and funnel its earnings into other projects.

If the viera and hrothgar can't use hairstyles because of the way they were designed, maybe they should have been designed differently then. Or maybe they should have gone for just one race. (While one race with both genders would still be a lot of work, the similarities between the genders of one race I think would make it easier to handle than two completely different mono gender races.) If Viera are higher quality models or something and that makes them unable ot use hairstyles from other races, maybe they shouldn't have been as different from the old models then.

The game has issues, but I see it more as an issue of management and dealing with the legacy code more so than the dev team just being lazy or incompetent. Could they fit these hairstyles onto viera? I'd bet they're CAPABLE of it, but finding the time to do it with other deadlines looming over you is a very, very different story.

Whatever side you're on, please be realistically objective and see how ridiculous the overall situation is. The due diligence to provide hairstyles, either from a "moving forward" position or from an equality standpoint should be SE's m.o when it comes to Viera/Hrothgars. To do any less while simultaneously not making it visible enough to the playerbase, old or new, that some aesthetic features will not be available and/or restricted is irresponsible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

Hate to say it as I do recommend FFXIV as a top MMO out but I hope they don't pull a WoW and kill a titan project to keep FFXIV, that I hope they do intend to phase FFXIV like how they did FFXI (FF XVII their FF XIV), not to try to keep this game lasting way too long. At least if they can't get over these problems. The game is fun, the story and presentation are great, but this game's core system, it seems, could have really benefited from giving it time to gestate properly (which I'm not blaming the people who worked on this game, we know what happened in 1.0 and the herculean efforts that went into making ARR/2.0+). I say "it seems" since these core systems we are told are to blame, and I believe it since they're so complicated and deep in the game's DNA but you know.. they could be saying "impossible" to us but also already working on the possible internally (even if it's very tactfully and slowly due to the consequences that might happen if not).

Many of these being memory problems, like being being unable to add beards/eyebrows, our account bound issues on mog shop, or that the glamour log is quite limited, of course particularity for myself I've /very/ negative feelings against the housing system and it's limited supply/creativity (I've almost no positive feelings to what they've done with that system, the objects though are great- but that's in general as I feel the FF art team always nails it). I'd still play FFXIV off and on for finishing MSQ and checking out new jobs (I like the gameplay) but I'd leave for a new FF if they had made a better management of their memory for item logs and a non-limited and non-creatively restricted housing system (to the point I'm honestly having a hard time being excited for the fact they're making Ishgard housing since I still find the core system itself just.. not good..).

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to rush the death, but I just really hope that if there is just no way for them to dig deep and adjust the deep roots in the system that they will be working on the next concepts and systems and are not planning to greatly delay the next one.

---

It does seem that many of the games problems come from the poor 1.0 spaghetti code and with how they have had to layer systems on top systems as the game has gone on. They have already stated that it is extremely difficult to change older content due to the way they layer things each expansion. I really hope they actually go through with The Rejoining as an in-game excuse to launch FF14-2 or FF16. I have ZERO expectations that will happen, but it would be nice.

The character creation system is in need of a complete overhaul, it would seem.

because of that kind of bullshit, I returned to my miqo'te

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiba_Whitewolf

It does seem that many of the games problems come from the poor 1.0 spaghetti code and with how they have had to layer systems on top systems as the game has gone on. They have already stated that it is extremely difficult to change older content due to the way they layer things each expansion. I really hope they actually go through with The Rejoining as an in-game excuse to launch FF14-2 or FF16. I have ZERO expectations that will happen, but it would be nice.

---

Yeah definitely feel that way, though I do want add that I believe they've said they're using none of their 1.0 code now. That doesn't mean 1.0 isn't haunting us still though, just wanted to add that 1.0's ghost goes further than "are you using it's code, yes? no?". Such as being so constrained in time you might make decisions that you'd not make if you had more time to plan/develop. When they went into 2.0 they were remaking huge chunks of the game at record speeds, that it came out so well that they could pull the game up from it's own bootstraps is amazing, I really don't mean to be heart breaking or make them feel attacked since the effort was incredible and it kind of makes sense that these issues would exist later and they've done a realllllyyyy good job moving away from that 1.0 haunting.

Yet still, if they're to tell me that "this can't be done because we can't do it" or "we didn't know better at the time because we've not ran such a huge mmo before, in this particular style*"... that I hope they take their experience and their talent into doing it right from the start sooner rather than much later. *And hopefully a new housing system lol- I've a strong feeling Dark Age of Camelot inspired FFXIV's but how that game presents itself and this one is quite different. To be fair FFXIV wasn't really defined so early on and so perhaps housing should have been held back until they knew for sure the type of players/game they were going to cater to, so I feel using that system for this type of themepark was a big missed opportunity (this isn't some hardcore game, nor a 2000 era fanfare), to the point even the guy who helped create DAoC chose a different system when making ESO. Though I might add for clarity my deep dislike for the system is sometimes a bit different from the normal narrative as my main issue is multiple rather than just supply (though that's a major issue I have with the system) but also includes stuff like how I feel it's a huge missed opportunity in creative power/tools. I say huge both in the game's own sake of freedom and large magic and also in the wonderful environments the FF art teams are capable of making and therefore capable of giving players as playgrounds, things that can't stretch out it's power and legs because of the public nature- a system that feels like it belongs in 1.0 with the retainer market.

I gave SE a chance and guess they failed and not added anymore hair styles for Viera so guess its back to being a Aura for me. Pretty bad f2p games can add new races and not have them limited but here SE gets subs and can't. Starting loose any respect had for SE with there laziness. New expansions better not have any new limited races or limited jobs. But SE has no problems converting female glamour's so men can wear them but won't spend time to give new races more hair styles.

I go by this philosophy, If there is no Viera/Hrothgar present in the promotion assume they cannot use the headgear/hairstyle,

and that is a goddamn SHAME!

I understood Viera and hrotgar would get their own hair...that being sad it's a shame they did receive nothing :/

That sucks.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the style. It looks fine from the sides, but head on it's just too poofy and odd looking, at least on my male midlander. Seems like a style that would look better on a Miqo'te.

Damn, really?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

.

---

Since I don't particularly care about what you want to complain about, I'm going to clarify I wasn't making an excuse or a defense, just giving a legitimate reason as to why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hynaku

I gave SE a chance and guess they failed and not added anymore hair styles for Viera so guess its back to being a Aura for me. Pretty bad f2p games can add new races and not have them limited but here SE gets subs and can't. Starting loose any respect had for SE with there laziness. New expansions better not have any new limited races or limited jobs. But SE has no problems converting female glamour's so men can wear them but won't spend time to give new races more hair styles.

---

If you have to buy a fantasia to go back all you would be doing is rewarding them for not adding hairstyles. Especially if you would switch back when/if they add more.

Personally, this hair is not my hill to die on. It looks awful, in my opinion. I definitely would not use it on my viera, or any other race for that matter.

I don't think it's acceptable for them to release new gear/hair post ShB and NOT include the new races being compatible to them.
I wouldn't even wear this hairstyle, I might not even use all head gears, but I shouldn't have to wonder if I will even have the option to when all other races do, especially if I'm paying a sub just like all the other races are.

I love the game and I'm not going to quit because of it, nor will I race change for that matter, but christ on sale it'd be nice to be acknowledged by the devs and be told straight up if we should expect to continue to pay for content that we're being specifically excluded from.

I'm disappointed but not surprised. Guess I know to keep my expectations low from here on out.

they're just reaping what they sowed when they chose the least desirable option for new races. i see absolutely no reason why this work could not be outsourced, saving SE a lot of time

It's for sure the principle of the matter. They will make up something like "heads aren't compatible" they would have to make viera specific hairstyles because of the ears. They chose to release viera like this, without forethought, with the continued exclusion of content (hair, majority of headgear) like this, they should be the ones to fix it - or at least have future hairs/headgear specifically modeled for viera. I'm sure they would come up with something else like, the "patch schedule", but they chose to add these two races, they should have thought about how to fit them to their schedule instead of releasing them in a half baked state (I'm being nice here, for the moderators) and being content in them being "finished", They do not seem to care, and viera don't even have it as bad as Horthgar. Considering they still have hair tied to the face, and they can't even change to the other single hairstyle for said face unless they purchase a fantasia. It is unacceptable no doubt.

They really need to be open and honest. I miss the ARR days - the development team were a lot more switched on and engaged with the community on these very forums back then. Now we're lucky to get an official statement unless there's a huge amount of noise and drama, even when a situation is objectively worthy of clarification.

I wouldn't use that hairstyle anyway, but it is especially ridiculous that they would not give us a new hairstyle. They wouldn't consider a new one complete and ready for release if it couldn't be used on miqo'te or roegadyn, so why is it acceptable to do the same for viera?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsukino

I wouldn't use that hairstyle anyway, but it is especially ridiculous that they would not give us a new hairstyle. They wouldn't consider a new one complete and ready for release if it couldn't be used on miqo'te or roegadyn, so why is it acceptable to do the same for viera?

---

They're limited races, effectively. They simply weren't advertised in advance as such like they should have been.