FF14 5.X Alternative Raid Buff Alignment and Openers

Hello there, Roxanne Stoner here! After months of talking with several experts in each class, poring over guides, utilizing simulators, leveling jobs for hands on experience, and staring off into space for hours at a time, I’ve finally put together a list of openers that work well with an alternative raid buff alignment for all the battle classes of FF14 5.X!

Most are variations while others are the exact same openers found on the Balance Discord, with a couple arranged myself. They’re not meant to be the definitive replacement for the current openers, but rather an alternative method for all raid buffs to line up relatively uniformly in order to deal more damage. That said, whichever opener results in an extra cast of a GCD, oGCD, buff, and/or burst window, or lines up better with a particular fight mechanic, that’s the one you should go for. The more options you have, the more prepared you’ll be for every encounter!

Before you check it out, here's a disclaimer from the healer portion of the doc:

The openers here are from a pure DPS perspective and are included in order to provide a visual representation of when buffs should be used in order to fit raid alignment. As there will most certainly be healing that needs to be done for AAs, tank busters, and/or raid damage, it’s extremely unlikely that you will be using all the following GCDs in this exact order. The best way to use these openers is to keep in mind the number of GCDs used prior to buffs and/or oGCDs and replace any offensive spells with healing ones as needed.

Anyway, I hope this helps people out. Be sure to check back in whenever a new patch comes out to see if anything’s changed. :cool:

FF14 5.X Alternative Raid Buff Alignment and Openers.

I'll reply again here since this is the healer section.

To anyone reading - please don't use these openers suggested. A significant amount of potency is lost in what's being proposed here, and they're flatly mathematically incorrect.
You were also banned from the Discord you mentioned, and none of the healer mentors were consulted on your openers suggested.

You don't even use your own opener on your best voidwalker.

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Originally Posted by DotsNnots

I'll reply again here since this is the healer section.

To anyone reading - please don't use these openers suggested. A significant amount of potency is lost in what's being proposed here, and they're flatly mathematically incorrect.
You were also banned from the Discord you mentioned, and none of the healer mentors were consulted on your openers suggested.

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Kind of hard to contact people when you were banned from the Discord they're all gathered before you even have the chance to contact them. ^^;

Definitely see how SCH benefits more with the current openers with how Energy Drain is spread, but I'm not sure what the issue is with AST or WHM.

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Originally Posted by Oxdarock

I'm not sure what the issue is with AST or WHM.

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https://i.imgur.com/unVnLXs.png
https://i.imgur.com/OLC8rbf.png
https://i.imgur.com/BChYWtn.png

Clipping bad, prepull Swiftcast bad. That's more than enough reason.

But the bit where the healer breaks down sobbing because SE killed their DPS rotation is missing.

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Originally Posted by Rovan

https://i.imgur.com/unVnLXs.png
https://i.imgur.com/OLC8rbf.png
https://i.imgur.com/BChYWtn.png

Clipping bad, prepull Swiftcast bad. That's more than enough reason.

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For WHM, the clipping of Swift because using a Dia there immediately after Glare makes it likely to miss raid buffs that come out at 15secs. Clipping with Swift allows you to push the seventh Glare into those buffs.

I don't see the issue with using Swift before Malefic 4, especially because it lasts 10 secs. If you're saving it for a healing mechanic or an instant rez, then I could see not using it there and instead opening with Pot->Combust 3. Also, the cast time of Malefic 4 is 1.5 secs, so you have time to use an oGCD after damage goes out (in fact, most of their GCDs work like this). That's how you're able to weave in cards. Using it there in the Early Div opener allows you to double weave a card and Lightspeed (if you intend to use it there).

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Originally Posted by Oxdarock

Kind of hard to contact people when you were banned from the Discord they're all gathered before you even have the chance to contact them. ^^;

Definitely see how SCH benefits more with the current openers with how Energy Drain is spread, but I'm not sure what the issue is with AST or WHM.

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You were in the discord for months, including when you posted your first pass of this document, and even then you consulted none of the healer mentors. Please don't try to twist this into some arbitrary excuse. Though to be frank, after hearing how you approached the other combat mentors, I can't say I'm heartbroken - I just don't appreciate the plug for the server when the consultation didn't happen or was ignored.

To the point,

WHM
For Assize - Clipping swiftcast is going to lose you roughly 100 potency. Even getting Assize under multiple raid buffs, you'd need a 25% increase in damage buffs to be up when assize is cast to make up for the 100p you lost from that hard clip of swift. And this is to say nothing for the fact that you're delaying it for more than a third of it's cooldown and running a BIG risk of losing one over the course of a fight, which is is an even bigger loss. You're already at a loss from the swiftcast clip, but even pretending that wasn't happening, if you lost a use in an encounter there's no reasonable amount of raid buff alignments for the remaining assizes that would make up for it. You'd need 10% damage up on 10 assizes for example, but because assize is 45s most raid buffs won't align, so realistically you're never going to get this. You'll always be operating a huge loss.
Delaying Presence of Mind nets you nothing here. Presence of mind increases your total number of casts, but it doesn't increase the damage done on those casts. The only important part of presence of mind is making sure the additional casts you've gained over your normal base fall under raid buffs, which they will when you use the proper opener. The way you've used it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of it.
And you're arbitrarily clipping dia by 5-6s? So, that's another 120p down the drain. Snapping under raid buffs is also not going to make you this back unless under VERY specific and situational scenarios.
And why you even use thin air and lucid is beyond me, you don't pair these together. That's not how proper mp planning works.

SCH
Let's just clip a million energy drains for no regard to why clipping is bad? And just lose potency to use a pot later, rather than using it pre-pull and saving you more potency? It's like you took the proper opener and changed things just to change things, you sometimes ruin2 to weave, and sometimes don't, without much rhyme or reason. Also to the point, with how much you're clipping you're delaying your application of chain by more than you realize.

AST
I won't even get into this one, I'd suggest watching this video instead: https://youtu.be/RWQ_TnJqqcw

The biggest take away here is that you lose way more potency than you gain with your failed attempts to align things into raid buffs. Clipping GCDs, among your other issues, adds up to significant damage losses that no amount of raid buff alignments will return.


And to clarify, I'm not providing this information here for you OP. Your track record of ignoring logic and reasoning proceeds you. I do however want to provide it for anyone who thinks I'm lodging a claim just to be contrary without evidence.

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Originally Posted by DotsNnots

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I have to admit that since I only able to use simple math, I'm at a complete loss as to where that particular potency for clipping Swiftcast came from. ^^;
I see what you mean with the Assize though, in which case the solution for that would most likely be for Dia to be the first GCD, followed by Assize (Pot would be used before Dia. The only other way I could see Assized being weaved in is if you replace a Glare with Regen, which is perfectly fine since I stated that if healing is necessary, then replace one of the Glares to do so. Aside from that, from a pure Dps perspective, I believe that's a case-by-case thing. If you can get an extra cast by using it right after the pull, then do so. If not, then is should be fine where it is, no? As for the second Dia cast, you're right. I actually overlooked the Presence of Mind usage, so there should be another Glare in front of it.

For SCH, I can see the second use of Energy Drain causing Chain to be pushed back a little too far now that you mention it, so I think a Ruin 2 should definitely be ahead of it. And even using Pot before the first Biolysis, it should still reach the second one, so that's definitely the better option.

AST I admittedly made it under the assumption of using Draw 15 seconds before the pull, but 30 would definitely be more optimal, using Lord/Lady and so on. Same with the third Sleeve Draw. I admittedly was thinking more towards gathering seals for the next Divination ^^;. Also forgot about the need to make decision with the cards, so double-weaving Play is definitely out. And it's definitely true that Combust first like in the "Early Div" opener would work out better in the "Standard" opener (referring to this doc).

As for how I contacted the mentors, I didn't contact everyone at once. I went one by one for each class. Considering the response of most of the mentors, it would have been way too heavy for me mentally to try to tackle all the classes at with many people not even giving it a chance, especially since my raid alignment the first time around was akin to me trying to reinvent the wheel rather than minor delays. I was saving the healer mentors for last, but made the mistake of trying to debate the MNK openers with the MNK channel, which led to my ban (I didn't even get the chance to talk with the NIN mentor, though I think he was part of the MNK discussion. ^^; )

Anyway, thank you for the feedback. I'll get to fixing the healer openers asap. :)

If you aren’t able to use the math required to figure optimal openers, why are you trying to create openers in the first place? What is your goal with these documents? Are you trying to make a name for yourself amongst the theorycrafters?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

If you aren’t able to use the math required to figure optimal openers, why are you trying to create openers in the first place? What is your goal with these documents? Are you trying to make a name for yourself amongst the theorycrafters?

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Pretty sure I've become infamous at this point, unfortunately. Happens when you challenge common convention. My goal is and always has been to try and create openers with more uniform alignments. While I agree that more casts equals more casts (and I've encouraged people to do so, though I'm sure people gloss over that), if the same number of casts are used regardless of timings, then you'd want to go with more buffs.

Ironically enough, even though this all started with me trying to make TK hit harder in the TK opener, I found out that the only buffs that can probably reach it are Battle Litany, Battle Voice, and Devilment, lol (Embolden reaches it just fine though). But at that point, I'd already spent a lot of time on this, so I had to see it through or accept it as a huge waste of time (though with it's reception, I'm pretty sure people think it is anyway, lol.)

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Originally Posted by Oxdarock

Pretty sure I've become infamous at this point, unfortunately. Happens when you challenge common convention. My goal is and always has been to try and create openers with more uniform alignments. While I agree that more casts equals more casts (and I've encouraged people to do so, though I'm sure people gloss over that), if the same number of casts are used regardless of timings, then you'd want to go with more buffs.

Ironically enough, even though this all started with me trying to make TK hit harder in the TK opener, I found out that the only buffs that can probably reach it are Battle Litany, Battle Voice, and Devilment, lol (Embolden reaches it just fine though). But at that point, I'd already spent a lot of time on this, so I had to see it through or accept it as a huge waste of time (though with it's reception, I'm pretty sure people think it is anyway, lol.)

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The “common convention” for buff alignments and openers exists because it is the most optimal way to open and play the jobs—backed up by math and rigorous testing, not feelycrafting. Anything you propose outside of the current design will be suboptimal. It was already explained to you in another thread that you never hold buffs at the beginning of a fight—only at the end for specific kill time goals (E4S is an excellent example of this). Holding damage and buffs at the start of a fight is asinine, and pushes back all subsequent uses of your skills, increasing the risk of losing casts of certain buffs or oGCDs entirely; and also increasing the risk that you won’t end a fight with a cleverly delayed burst, thereby affecting your optimized execution.

All this really proves is that you don’t understand the basics of optimization. You have admitted to not consulting Theorycrafters for several of these openers already, despite stating within the document that you have spoken with mentors about them. You were warned and subsequently banned from The Balance for also failing to cease pushing this agenda, and ignoring logic and reason with regards to these openers. As with your last set of openers, mentors and theorycrafters are coming to the forums now to tell you what you’re doing wrong, but you still seem keen to insist on being suboptimal. Why is following the standard openers/buff alignment such an issue for you?

It doesn’t matter if you spent a lot of time on this or not—it is a waste because there is already an optimal way of handling openers and buffs. Attempting to go against the grain simply for the sake of going against the grain will not get you very far. I’m sorry to say that perhaps you should just accept that the Tornado Kick opener on MNK is dead, rather than try to change the optimized way other jobs are played to fit into your fantasy of making it viable again.

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Originally Posted by Oxdarock

Pretty sure I've become infamous at this point, unfortunately. Happens when you challenge common convention.

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You lost me when you made rotations with the pretty basic mistake of not reading / understanding the action tooltip. I'll use rotations from people who actually play the classes they are theorycrafting for thanks.

I agree with the sentiment that new players should be skipping your rotation posts. Thankfully I know to look at The Balance and hope new players look it up as well.

Seeing you opening up rotations with dots hurt me. For one. Playing a card too soon after the dot is cast will make you fail to gain a seal since the game hasn't registered you in combat yet. For two. Precasting is a thing for literally every caster because it reduces your ramp-up and thus increases your burst.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Seeing you opening up rotations with dots hurt me. For one. Playing a card too soon after the dot is cast will make you fail to gain a seal since the game hasn't registered you in combat yet. For two. Precasting is a thing for literally every caster because it reduces your ramp-up and thus increases your burst.

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I see the concern, but I'm not sure if that's always true? Just went on a striking dummy myself and even when using combust and a card on myself rapid fire using the skill queing system, it took at least a 3rd of the recast before the card was applied. Maybe it's a latency thing?

As for not pre-casting spells, that's done so that the pot catches both DoT casts, plus both AST and SCH have a lot of oGCDs to press (using a Pot in the beginning keeps you from using a R2 to weave it in) while WHM just casts Glare.

Some skills position look so randomly placed for the sake of creating an opener it's sad to see.
Let's stick with what already exists as proven optimal opener, it'll be better.

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Originally Posted by Oxdarock

I see the concern, but I'm not sure if that's always true? Just went on a striking dummy myself and even when using combust and a card on myself rapid fire using the skill queing system, it took at least a 3rd of the recast before the card was applied. Maybe it's a latency thing?

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Did you account for skill/spell speed in your maths? At least on The Balance openers they account for latency and often provide adjustments.

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Originally Posted by MrMagic

Did you account for skill/spell speed in your maths? At least on The Balance openers they account for latency and often provide adjustments.

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I do. It's just that particular point with missing a seal after using combust I'm not 100% sure of given my ping. Makes perfect sense, but I'm unable to test it.

Y'all realize that if the OP is such a bad thing, the best way to address the issue is to just let the thread quietly wither away and be buried from lack of responses, rather than attempt to engage someone who obviously doesn't know what they're doing in discourse, right?

(I recognize the irony in my having to post to say that. Don't even bother responding to this, please.)

I was thinking of slowly doing this over the next month or so, but how would people feel if I made individual timelines for each class in relation to raid buffs?

It'd be a lot of work, but it'd make it easier for people to see the goal of these openers at a glance. Plus, if they still need extra confirmation, they'd be able to math it out themselves without having to consistently double check the timestamps of each ability.

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Originally Posted by Oxdarock

I see the concern, but I'm not sure if that's always true? Just went on a striking dummy myself and even when using combust and a card on myself rapid fire using the skill queing system, it took at least a 3rd of the recast before the card was applied. Maybe it's a latency thing?

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My latency is good enough most of the time and it's about 50/50 that I'll get the seal using a card on the first global on a test dummy. The whole "in combat" thing is so finicky anyway, and that's why all recommended AST openers put the first card in the second offensive global, because we rely too much on that first seal, and having to fish/play again on the fly completely obliterates any opener--optimized or no.

I find the information in this video to be extremely helpful for AST opener https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWQ_TnJqqcw It has served me well and I recommend it to any AST player. This rotation gets Divination out ASAP but also doesn't leave that first seal to chance.