So I think most of us prefer the idea of the tank dash-ins being different rather than all being homogenized as they are currently (save for onslaught). My idea for it is that Dark Knight's plunge should remain as is. Paladin's should have the damage removed entirely and be usable on teammates as well as the boss for pure mobility. Gunbreaker shouldn't have a dash-in, instead opting for the ability to use their melee abilities at range for either a limited duration or a certain number of GCD's. What to do with Onslaught I sadly have no idea as making it gauge efficient and giving it a longer cooldown makes it to similar to upheaval.
Ideas for the tank dash-ins
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10-31-2019, 08:39 AMCommanderNarwhalIdeas for the tank dash-ins
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10-31-2019, 08:47 AMIlenya
I am not a tank main, but I disagree on GNB not having a dash-in. Their dash in is perfectly fitting for what GNB is based off of. I do like the idea of Paladin having an ally dash, especially if it adds a small shield to them (Or to self on enemy dash?). What would be fun to see is a dash that does an AoE hit, since to the best of my knowledge none do right now for tanks, but I don't know which would suit that.
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10-31-2019, 10:35 PMaodhan_ofinnegainNot sure why you specifically remove damage from PLDs Intervene, you try having someone charge at you with a shield and say it didn't hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by CommanderNarwhal
I second Ilenya's sentiment in regards GNB, that is an awful suggestion. You're basically trying to give GNB Requiescat; it does not serve as an answer to the mobility aspect missing from the job, any paladin main in SB can tell you that. -
10-31-2019, 10:53 PMReynhartGap closing is not a mobility issue, but an uptime issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
If you have the option of doing your combo at range, you don't lose any uptime when coming back to the target. Even better since you wouldn't lose uptime even while dodging an AoE. And it would fit a Gunbreaker, since some animations clearly show them shooting something from their barrel. -
10-31-2019, 11:07 PMaodhan_ofinnegainWorth pointing out that GNB gunblades, aren't actual guns, "the firing mechanism, emitting a range of magical effects by utilizing aesthetically imbued cartridges " courtesy of the ffxiv gunbreaker job guide. Garlean gunblades are both gun and blade. So no it would not be thematic in anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
And uptime or mobility, are basically the same the thing, get to back to boss asap so you can keep uptime, neither is mutually exclusive. -
10-31-2019, 11:19 PMReynhartYes, they aren't, as they don't shopt bullets...yet they still shoot aetherial charges, which still make them weapons with range capabilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
Since they're the same, keeping attacking even at range would have the same effect of having a gap closer. Thus giving every job tools to face every situation, while having their own flavor. So you could have two charges of "your next 3GCD have a 10y range".Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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10-31-2019, 11:25 PMSabora_Makingai
Attacking at range is fun and all (PLD main here) but gap closing is also about positioning. If you want to take that away fine, but give me a 10 potency buff on everything else. Also if you take away gap closer enjoy pugging E2S with tanks who cant dash back to boss after flares when the OT doesnt voke and the fight takes place in the NW corner.
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10-31-2019, 11:32 PMReynhartLike I said above, gap closing does nothing to keep uptime while you move away to doge an AoE or place an AoE away from the group. Ranged WS would have that perk, so I don't see why you should be buffed above that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabora_Makingai
It would also prevent situations where you might not have your gap closer available because you burned your charges during a burst window. Changing your WS to ranged attacks wouldn't have any other use than keeping uptime when you have to move away. -
10-31-2019, 11:34 PMaodhan_ofinnegainYou will have to either heavily reduce potency on the attacks from ranged as the gun blade isn't actually directly striking the target, or add new skills, to which GNB hotbars are already pretty full, or better idea, just leave gap closers as they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
I don't want to see a nerf to PLD gap closer or the removal of GNBs because some random felt their perception is a good idea. I went SB without one and it was awful on fights like M/F, or fights with multiple pushback, that tempered will wasn't able to handle. -
10-31-2019, 11:46 PMReynhartIt would simply be your usual WS. Meaning that, on a 100% uptime boss, you wouldn't have to use your "increase WS range" at all. Basically, GUN DPS would be more consistent than other tanks since you'd have more ways to keep uptime.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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11-01-2019, 12:09 AMDuskane
Well just some ideas
Mp gain on plundge
Intervene either stronger with sheltron or it gives a free sheltron
Onslaut is free with Chaos cleave buff
Gnb just refreshes its mini shield -
11-01-2019, 12:46 AMaodhan_ofinnegainBut this makes no sense whatsoever, it has to be a joke, how the hell does a sword based attack from a range actually deal damage, even if you argue that the aetherial charge as a means for damage, it's still flawed, since the blade is not striking the enemy, have you bothered to read the name of the weaponskills. Do you honestly think the aetherial charge will make the gunblade fly out of your hand and smack the boss for you or something stupid like that. PLD's HS and Confiteor makes sense, beacuse...they are spells, only weaponskills that make sense are the ranged physical and the weaker potency than normal weaponskills, that tanks have for pulling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
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11-01-2019, 12:56 AMReynhartAs much as it makes sense to throw a kite shield and have it magically come back, or swing your 1m sword around you and hitting everything 3m around, or hitting metal or stone monsters with you bare fists, or wielding a roughly 200 pounds great sword or great axe, or having returning chakrams...If "making sense" is what bothers you, you have much more things to be concerned than a magic buff that would allow your weapon to hit at long range...Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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11-01-2019, 06:29 PMJandorHave you fought the 3rd boss of the Nier raid? Every melee job in the game is attacking from range in that fight, dudes stood well out of sword range splashing about in the sea.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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11-02-2019, 12:44 AMaodhan_ofinnegain
Okay, then why stop at just GNB, why not let WAR and DRK hit the boss from 10yalms away, hell why not make it 20yalms, then why stop even there, best let melee DPS also hit from 20yalms away so they can keep 100% uptime... then what's the point of calling them melee anymore.
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11-02-2019, 01:45 AMReiMakotoThe Aetheric Charges do not give Gunbreaker Gunblades ranged capabilities for offence which is clearly stated in the Jobquests, when firing the atheric charge for damage you're essentially setting off a grenade at the barrel end of the gunblade i.e. not a projectile, this is why their pull move lightning shot is a blade beam thing that they drag along the floor rather than just blasting the, from range. Now they are able to fire things in the sense of Heart of stone and for thier final limit break they are fireing barriers, but it is unclear wether this is just generic atherial manipulation like with say a plds intervention, as it does not use any catridges to do these movesQuote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
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11-02-2019, 02:24 AMReynhartYou're right, identity be damned, let's give everyjob everything !Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
/sigh