Pet abilities being on the global cooldown feels really clunky.

Having pet attacks share my casting time makes gameplay feel really slow. Even if the dps of the class increased (has it?), i'd rather have the change reverted, because basically only being able to cast Fester while i'm using all my pet moves back to back is kinda boring. It was much more fun to weave pet moves in between my casting.

honestly, turn pet skill from ability to spell and have to use them on GCD make me have less chance to use them now, devs didn't joke about making SMN job less busy back then, might as well as go ahead and delete this job in 5.2 before 6.0 come out then

before patch i used to double wave pet skill when i go into DWT so i can have 4 stack of ruin 4 in prepare for bahamut summon, now only chance i can use it when i am moving which i rather use ruin 2

Also yeah, using Ruin 4 so much less also feels bad.

Honestly, literally everything about Egis is holding back Summoner at this point. Egi Assault feels awkward and unrewarding to use, due to the 5s drop in trance cooldowns, enkindle and aetherpact are starting to drift like absolute mad. I seriously just want egis gone in 5.2. I know it won't happen, but I just want them gone. They're not working, all experiments to make pets work in any form short of demis or hands-off AQ-style pets have fundamentally failed, egis are actively hurting Summoner's class design.

Turning them into a GCD didn't exactly make the class worse, but it doesn't feel better because of it, either. It's replaced one problem (skill bloat and a way too busy class) with a completely different one. (being massively punished for cooldowns that like wandering, the class having all of its disparate systems that don't synergize meshing poorly being very obviously lampshaded.)

Once you see Aetherpact get blown into FBT, or Enkindle into DB, you start to realize just how serious the problem is, but with skilled play you are basically going to want to trance at 55-58 seconds, not 60 seconds as the timing is too tight and you introduce all of that drifting because of it.

Deleting egis would make SMN's rotation very boring right now, but at least it would only have one thing that destroys its coherency, Aetherflow, which is mostly just 3 oGCDs to press every 30 seconds. But it removes all the problems caused by Enkindle or Aetherpact slowly drifting into the demi summons as well and being spiked and shifted up to 20 seconds later as a result.

Seriously, how do the devs not see these problems?

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Honestly, literally everything about Egis is holding back Summoner at this point. Egi Assault feels awkward and unrewarding to use, due to the 5s drop in trance cooldowns, enkindle and aetherpact are starting to drift like absolute mad. I seriously just want egis gone in 5.2. I know it won't happen, but I just want them gone. They're not working, all experiments to make pets work in any form short of demis or hands-off AQ-style pets have fundamentally failed, egis are actively hurting Summoner's class design.

Turning them into a GCD didn't exactly make the class worse, but it doesn't feel better because of it, either. It's replaced one problem (skill bloat and a way too busy class) with a completely different one. (being massively punished for cooldowns that like wandering, the class having all of its disparate systems that don't synergize meshing poorly being very obviously lampshaded.)

Once you see Aetherpact get blown into FBT, or Enkindle into DB, you start to realize just how serious the problem is, but with skilled play you are basically going to want to trance at 55-58 seconds, not 60 seconds as the timing is too tight and you introduce all of that drifting because of it.

Deleting egis would make SMN's rotation very boring right now, but at least it would only have one thing that destroys its coherency, Aetherflow, which is mostly just 3 oGCDs to press every 30 seconds. But it removes all the problems caused by Enkindle or Aetherpact slowly drifting into the demi summons as well and being spiked and shifted up to 20 seconds later as a result.

Seriously, how do the devs not see these problems?

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Oohhhh nooo. One of my major pet peeves is people asking for a major part of a job/class/what have you in a game to be removed because 'they don't like it'. Knock that off. Some people play summoner because they enjoy pet classes. You don't, thats cool. But don't try to remove something other people enjoy just for your own selfish wants.

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Originally Posted by Palladiamors

Oohhhh nooo. One of my major pet peeves is people asking for a major part of a job/class/what have you in a game to be removed because 'they don't like it'. Knock that off. Some people play summoner because they enjoy pet classes. You don't, thats cool. But don't try to remove something other people enjoy just for your own selfish wants.

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SMN is barely even a pet class at this point. The only thing separating the egi assaults from any other attack skill now is that the summon has to move to the target. SMN is an absolute mess, and egis getting killed off would be the first step towards redeveloping it towards an engaging direction.

Disagree entirely with this thread.
EAs pack a nice punch now, I feel like I'm finally commanding my egi instead of attacking as/for it, and now ruin IV management is less frantic conservation/punishing to use.

I -think- this change might bring my playfeel back to its glory days of SB SMN, which was peak SMN for me.

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Originally Posted by Palladiamors

Oohhhh nooo. One of my major pet peeves is people asking for a major part of a job/class/what have you in a game to be removed because 'they don't like it'. Knock that off. Some people play summoner because they enjoy pet classes. You don't, thats cool. But don't try to remove something other people enjoy just for your own selfish wants.

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I LOVE pet classes. I always play them, given the chance. smn, however, is indeed one of the most poorly designed pet classes in the current lineup of mmos or even single player games. idk how they did so well with pet classes in most ff games that had them, but failed so hard with them in ffxiv.

I agree with Taranok, taking away egi's and leaving smn with bahamut and phoenix until they can do something better is the only real thing that would work atm and still keep smn a smn.

I like the skill now as GCD...
less busy, so could be more focus on mechanics...
and it could be used as movement skill since it has no cast time...

I just don't understand the thought process of people who don't want to play a pet class picking up a class that has been a pet class for 6 years....

Because SMN has always been piss poor as an example of a 'pet class,' and we now have representation of proper summons that would be far more attractive as a gameplay concept and historical reference to summoners of past games.

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Originally Posted by Roda

I just don't understand the thought process of people who don't want to play a pet class picking up a class that has been a pet class for 6 years....

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Summoner hasn't been a true Pet class since 3.0. Once the trances and then the Demi's were introduced the egi's have become little more then afterthoughts and a cute aethetic. SHB despite the introduction of egi-assaults actually made the egi's even less of a real pet that operates independent of it's master. SMN isn't a pet job, hasn't been for years.

SMN is a lot better now than it was when SHB landed, but I too would like egis gone and a rotation fully based on demis.

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Originally Posted by Rika007

Summoner hasn't been a true Pet class since 3.0. Once the trances and then the Demi's were introduced the egi's have become little more then afterthoughts and a cute aethetic. SHB despite the introduction of egi-assaults actually made the egi's even less of a real pet that operates independent of it's master. SMN isn't a pet job, hasn't been for years.

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um the class summons a creature that does damage independent from the player, that you can command to do special actions ... that's literally the definition of a pet class and before SHB you had to manage your pet to move in an out of AOEs or they could die.

like if that's not a pet class then i don't know what your definition of a pet class is?

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Originally Posted by Vulcann

um the class summons a creature that does damage independent from the player, that you can command to do special actions ... that's literally the definition of a pet class and before SHB you had to manage your pet to move in an out of AOEs or they could die.

like if that's not a pet class then i don't know what your definition of a pet class is?

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Something that requires actual involved and micro management of said pet where the pet takes on the primary roll of the jobs identity. The best summoners in Stormblood literally developed ways to do one prepull ability then a pet swap so they could just stick a pet on sic and never have to worry about them again. At that point a pet is little more then a glorified DOT that you have to occasionally press a button or two to insure it doesn't. This is what I mean by it's not a Pet class. Once the trances were introduced the pet's began to diminish. The Demi's came in and they became even more insubstantial. Now the pet's aren't even something that you have to worry about dying and don't operate in any individual way. We're a few changes of code from just making them a glowy weapon that pops up the moment you equip your book.

As long as I have an external entity that that i can move around the battlefield seperate from me and has actions that it either does on its own or at my command, its a pet class to me. I find the GCD egi Assaults to feel great to use tbh, it gives me mobility without wasting Ruin IV charges for non burst phases. And now that pet potencies have been bumped up significantly the pet actually feels impactful.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

As long as I have an external entity that that i can move around the battlefield seperate from me and has actions that it either does on its own or at my command, its a pet class to me. I find the GCD egi Assaults to feel great to use tbh, it gives me mobility without wasting Ruin IV charges for non burst phases. And now that pet potencies have been bumped up significantly the pet actually feels impactful.

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Which demi primals already do. So, by those terms, getting rid of egis only serves to remove a poorly designed redundancy .

Can we just go back to the previous system where I could leave Ifrit on Sic and enjoy the illusion of a pet class without having to manage it?

I think the Egi Assault change is great, it's just that it doesn't blend well with the current design.

I would like to see how it would fare if Egi Assault was kept as an ogcd except both are paired to have their own shared gcd (like old NIN mudras except longer) to discourage double-weaving which was a common complaint, it's one stack, doubled cooldown and doubled damage. Still, the lack of ogcds we have now is pretty similar to 5.x SMN which I love the most.

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Originally Posted by Rika007

Something that requires actual involved and micro management of said pet where the pet takes on the primary roll of the jobs identity. The best summoners in Stormblood literally developed ways to do one prepull ability then a pet swap so they could just stick a pet on sic and never have to worry about them again. At that point a pet is little more then a glorified DOT that you have to occasionally press a button or two to insure it doesn't. This is what I mean by it's not a Pet class. Once the trances were introduced the pet's began to diminish. The Demi's came in and they became even more insubstantial. Now the pet's aren't even something that you have to worry about dying and don't operate in any individual way. We're a few changes of code from just making them a glowy weapon that pops up the moment you equip your book.

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that's not a pet class then, the way FFXIV is doing the summoner is basically how every pet class is in every mmo or hell how most RPG deal with pet classes.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

Which demi primals already do. So, by those terms, getting rid of egis only serves to remove a poorly designed redundancy .

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Why not both? I like cycling between egis and demis myself. A weaker persistent pet to appease the "pet class" fans and a stronger less persistent pet to appease the "Traditional Summoner" fans.

I like it, it gives me more chances to weave without sacrificing dps to use Ruin II.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Disagree entirely with this thread.
EAs pack a nice punch now, I feel like I'm finally commanding my egi instead of attacking as/for it, and now ruin IV management is less frantic conservation/punishing to use.

I -think- this change might bring my playfeel back to its glory days of SB SMN, which was peak SMN for me.

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I'm in the same boat as you on this one. Egi Assault feels better to use now that it's more potency than Ruin 3, not to mention it enables summoner to be more mobile than it's ever been before. Consider you can potentially move through 4 Egi Assault, 4 Ruin 4 into Dreadwyrm Trance, which again is all instant casts, and this is by far the most mobile any cast has ever been able to be. the job feels less chaotic, and the overall rotation of the job feels so much smoother now.

I just switched to playing summoner seriously for the first time ever because of how much better this job feels to play.

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Originally Posted by Palladiamors

Oohhhh nooo. One of my major pet peeves is people asking for a major part of a job/class/what have you in a game to be removed because 'they don't like it'. Knock that off. Some people play summoner because they enjoy pet classes. You don't, thats cool. But don't try to remove something other people enjoy just for your own selfish wants.

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As a former Nin main that abandoned it because the 5.1 overhaul removed it's fast pacing and weaving, I agree.

The Devs need to be careful of implementing every suggestion that leads to removing skills and overhauling classes.

At the rate they are going, we are going to be left with a bunch of identical classes and all the people that liked unique aspects getting angry and bored of the game.

Personally, I dislike RDM and BM because of long casting times but I understand other people may be into that so it's okay.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Disagree entirely with this thread.
EAs pack a nice punch now, I feel like I'm finally commanding my egi instead of attacking as/for it, and now ruin IV management is less frantic conservation/punishing to use.

I -think- this change might bring my playfeel back to its glory days of SB SMN, which was peak SMN for me.

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yeah nothing more to add - it feels like fighting 2gether now. Like dat pretty much as well the mobility we got back with the new egi assaults and use of R4 now. I was super skeptical reading the pre-patchnotes... losing ogcds to "slow" down the hassle of dbl and triple weaving... but in the end it doesn't really feel slower - its still kinda dynamic but unfamiliar that egi-assault changed to your majority toolkit from just being a weak ogcds.

Happy again no doubt - now bring up2date egi glams which feel like 2019 and not like Ataris best ages and you (se) can call this cls "Summoner" again :3

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Can we just go back to the previous system where I could leave Ifrit on Sic and enjoy the illusion of a pet class without having to manage it?

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Careful there, you're getting awfully close to the traditional FF summoner where it's 'Casts big aoe spells that take twelve minutes to show up while people wait'