Unpopular opinion: No new jobs next xpac please

Instead of introducing new jobs, how about we use that effort to instead revamp the combat system in a way that allows the individual jobs to have their identities back? I believe it is more important to focus on getting the current jobs right than introducing more in a very homogenization-istic fashion for years to come.

Jobs feel like they have their identities to me minus healers.

Please SE give us Beast Master next expansion, ty.

I feel Beast Master will be a limited job :(

Job identity doesn't really seem to be a problem, in my opinion, except for a couple. AST and SCH both seemed to lose that with Shadowbringers. More new jobs is probably going to be a given regardless. They just need to fix what many people see as broken and leave what isn't alone.

Id be fine with no new job if every job got a rework that enhanced their identity. As Ive mentioned in other threads, Im dissatisfied with DRK playstyle currently. It doesnt appeal to me and doesnt feel fun to play. It's not broken or disfunctional, just that from a purely aesthetic playstyle stand point, its bland and uninspired compared to SB or HW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nucah

I feel Beast Master will be a limited job :(

---

But we already got a new Gold Saucer game? Do we really need a new one so soon at the cost of dev resources elsewhere, even if it gets as cool a name as Beast Master?

@OP
I'd generally agree, but due to experience across WoW, Rift, Aeon, etc., I can't rightly be so optimistic that the delay will have the intended result. I have yet to see balance actually improve after any broad change or delay alleged to have been necessary to improve balance. More often, "No new class; too busy with balance/identity!" has led to some of the worst periods of balance and more classes somehow having even less identity than they did in the previous expansion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

Id be fine with no new job if every job got a rework that enhanced their identity. As Ive mentioned in other threads, Im dissatisfied with DRK playstyle currently. It doesnt appeal to me and doesnt feel fun to play. It's not broken or disfunctional, just that from a purely aesthetic playstyle stand point, its bland and uninspired compared to SB or HW.

---

See, I feel the opposite. When I leveled up DRK a bit post Shadowbringers I actually thought it was more enjoyable. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Healers: How 'bout no.

Speak for yourself Dinah. :v

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

Id be fine with no new job if every job got a rework that enhanced their identity. As Ive mentioned in other threads, Im dissatisfied with DRK playstyle currently. It doesnt appeal to me and doesnt feel fun to play. It's not broken or disfunctional, just that from a purely aesthetic playstyle stand point, its bland and uninspired compared to SB or HW.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

See, I feel the opposite. When I leveled up DRK a bit post Shadowbringers I actually thought it was more enjoyable. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

---

Personally, the DRK I enjoyed the most was HW DRK. SB was too much Dark Arts spam (plus the loss of actually having to upkeep Darkside didn’t appeal to me), and ShB DRK is basically WAR 2.0 with Inner Delirium (minus the D.Hit Crits on Bloodspiller).


I’d like to see the developers return some of the identities certain jobs lost (e.g., BRD and its support/BRD-y-ness; AST and its Time Mage aspects, alongside a better card system). I think that can still be possible without forsaking adding in new jobs. It’s probably in their best interest that they add in a healer in 6.0—otherwise they will see an even bigger explosion than what happened pre-ShB launch when they confirmed no new healer...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It’s probably in their best interest that they add in a healer in 6.0—otherwise they will see an even bigger explosion than what happened pre-ShB launch when they confirmed no new healer...

---

*raises hand*

How about we get another healer, and they completely rework AST to not have the Sects since those are causing most of the problems with the class balance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

Instead of introducing new jobs, how about we use that effort to instead revamp the combat system in a way that allows the individual jobs to have their identities back? I believe it is more important to focus on getting the current jobs right than introducing more in a very homogenization-istic fashion for years to come.

---

We absolutely DO need a new healer next expansion!! Please SE, give healers some love already!!

I'll be honest. I don't want a new healer. New DPS? Sure, why not. But they can't handle 3 healers, and I'll be damned before I want to see them put a 4th on the chopping block. At first I was upset DNC was a DPS, until I saw healer changes, then I was glad they made it a DPS,because SE actually cares about that role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Billythepancake

I'll be honest. I don't want a new healer. New DPS? Sure, why not. But they can't handle 3 healers, and I'll be damned before I want to see them put a 4th on the chopping block. At first I was upset DNC was a DPS, until I saw healer changes, then I was glad they made it a DPS,because SE actually cares about that role.

---

They're going to need to do something unless you want the blowback to be even worse than Shadowbringers launch from the healer community. I'm not going to mince words on this specific topic. I have a slight grudge against SE over this. It's mellowed out but I'm not going to accept 3 expansions in a row of being given the middle finger for my primary role.

I have other games to put my time into if that's the case. I'm still playing because ShB is bought and paid for even though my average playtime has tanked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mesarthim

They're going to need to do something unless you want the blowback to be even worse than Shadowbringers launch from the healer community. I'm not going to mince words on this specific topic. I have a slight grudge against SE over this. It's mellowed out but I'm not going to accept 3 expansions in a row of being given the middle finger for my primary role.

I have other games to put my time into if that's the case. I'm still playing because ShB is bought and paid for even though my average playtime has tanked.

---

Hey, I'm not happy either, I loved SCH in SB, but then they took away everything I loved about it and made it a WHM with some tiny differences. I don't want a 4th WHM with a small gimmick that barely distinguishes itself from the other healers. If SE can add a 4th healer, while also giving the other 3 proper love and making them genuinely fun to play in current design, in every area of the game, then sure. But, given their track record, I wouldn't count on it.

I just want Puppetmaster, Corsair or an actual Red Mage (not the bargain basement blm we currently have)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Billythepancake

But, given their track record, I wouldn't count on it.

---

And this is something I cannot disagree with. Square Enix is laughably bad and neglectful in this regard. Anyone could have looked at 5.0 pre-launch AST and pointed out how many things were wrong with it. If someone spent maybe 5 minutes on it I don't think the job would've needed a page long list of buffs when savage dropped (and is still getting changes).

I started in 3.2. Mained AST since 3.4 till ShB launch. Hell they could delete AST from the game and I wouldn't bat an eye, which you might think odd considering I mained and enjoyed the job for most of the time I played this game.

If they didn't ignore us to the degree they do I'd probably be less bitter about how they handled things, so all I can do is wait until 2021. Going to be an interesting year.

I'm on the fence. I would definitely love to see new jobs or a new way that can introduce newer job fantasies (I posted my suggestion for what I mean in the "future jobs" thread).

But I'd also like to see them correct existing problems and give existing jobs the attention they need. Creating new jobs could end up diverting resources that could be spent improving what we've got.

In respect to a 4th healer, I can see how adding a fourth healer if handled in certain ways could help some of the healer issues, but I also have the fear if we don't see meaningful changes to healers in any of the ShB patch cycles, my concern would be that a 4th healer will suffer from the same issues and compound existing problems further.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

How about we get another healer, and they completely rework AST to not have the Sects since those are causing most of the problems with the class balance.

---

Not have sects? It's as though you want somebody to make a lewd joke out of this! I for one will not be lured into such temptation! Despite my server's reputation!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mesarthim

I started in 3.2. Mained AST since 3.4 till ShB launch. Hell they could delete AST from the game and I wouldn't bat an eye, which you might think odd considering I mained and enjoyed the job for most of the time I played this game.

---

I can’t disagree with this sentiment either, tbh.

We need another healer so at least next expansion should have it as minimun, the rest of the effort should be put on fix WAR, DRK, AST and SCH, they go to far with the simplification of this jobs, WAR and DRK are almost clones.

Bad idea from a business perspective. New jobs sell expansions.

Hm, WHM has the lore of being a powerful magic job so it makes sense for them to have the strongest skills (dps and heals) lore-wise. SCH was meant to be a tactician and master of shields (you would think we would have a lot of instant shield type of skills). They also have a fairy that helps them out but the tactician part got completely ignored in my opinion (shouldn't we have more abilities to ease the fight? I will happily take back all the dot options to at least feel like a tactician D:!). And then there is AST that was like the speed healer that could throw out buffs (And they had the nerve to take that away and replaced with weaker buffs :/). The only other type of healer I could think for them to add is a debuff healer and heals by damage taken? They could have a heal that heals you each time you get hit and a lot of their skills could be things that maybe slow the mobs down, stuns, something that lowers damage of mobs?... Each healer, however, would need to be balanced to have something powerful enough that would make it hard to choose one over the others.

Otherwise, healers are to going to keep suffering the same fate as any other category of classes. Like SMN for some reason (even though we had to kill primals for our egis) have always been the weakest and most busy of magic classes. We at least, use to have a powerful bane that made up for it but even that got taken away for whatever reason. Melee still has it's questionable issues of SE not knowing which job should be top DPS for whatever balance related issues. (I don't play melee so someone can fill this is in). I guess I'm on the fence of seeing another job getting added to the balance war. I don't think any game I played has had perfect balancing across jobs but I have played games where each job had its own strong identity. I at least want the identity of the jobs to be figured out before the next expansion.

Well, if they are trying to sell a product, it would behoove them to introduce new jobs. The people playing now are going to pay. The people complaining about the game are still going to pay. Why worry about not releasing new jobs to satisfy those people when they will just pay anyway?

Former Beastmasters remember the job as a solo journey in Final Fantasy 11, so I don't see any reason to change that now. The entire appeal of bestmaster was a job whom ventured on their own and used surrounding monsters to fight for them. Later in its' lifespan, they slowly killed off that mechanic and made beastmaster use jugs, but it still ended up being a solo job. Beastmaster outside of FF mmos were group jobs, but they kind of had no choice lol.

Other than summoner, beastmaster is best suited for limited. My fear is we will get cute pets and not nasty creatures like dinosaurs and Rocs.

"Not tamable"

"Not tamable"

"Not tamable"

Get used to seeing that message.

At this point, a healer is must just for the sake of pacifying the healer population. Then we can stop with the jobs and work on the meat and bones of the game.

Not adding any new jobs so they can fix the current ones went over great in the healer community, I see no problems doing it with the whole game. :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElazulHP

Bad idea from a business perspective. New jobs sell expansions.

---

Pretty much this. As long as it's a Final Fantasy game and Square-Enix is a business, there will be more jobs to play whether some like it or not.

One job per expansion, I wouldn't mind though. Hell, maybe they could make more Limited jobs as a means of slow-developing proper jobs via public testing.

I would personally be quite a bit let down by this unless there are substantial, and I mean substantial lol, content pieces in its place. Like a nearly or literally every item in the game glamour log (like some other games have) and instanced houses that are not limited by any quantity/location mechanics (pocket world la di da- etc etc someone find me my salted dead horse to beat).


I'd really want to get the strong feeling that the resources weren't just pocketed, as they laugh at our comprise. Sure some reworks might be cool, but they sneak those things in already (which I appreciate). I don't feel the need to see every job entirely rebuilt along with combat unless someone at SE had a solid gold plan with insurance to make them better, and that sounds like trying to shoot for Pluto and likely hitting the nearby stop sign instead (so many things could go wrong, jobs someone loved now hated, etc).



Also while I'm pretty happy with the jobs I prefer to play I still would really like to see a transformation gimmick based job, and possibly a bruiser mage (DD/dps dragoon armor/ex-death/golbez inspiration- could be a tank I suppose).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazrah

One job per expansion, I wouldn't mind though.

---

I can support this. Like how everyone has been Clamoring, we should definitely get a new healer Next Expansion, and thats pretty much all we need.
The time they could be spent developing a 2nd or 3rd Job can be used to try and further Balance the current ones.

Just, add new jobs and balance the existing ones? It's not like SE is a small indie dev...

But how would we start about “overhauling” the combat system and class design philosophy? It’s complex and risky even for professional development teams.

Just curious, it’s a deep topic.

Actually, I would be ok with no new jobs next expac!

I played Maplestory as a kid. If any of you have played Maplestory, you'll know where adding too many classes will get you. Most of them are fine, I think, but a lot of them are too similar. While I'm still holding onto the hope of one day seeing the Onion Knight, I wouldn't mind an expac or two without a new class.

I usually craft, but, isn’t that not fair for the healer mains that have waited years for a new healer?

Honestly, they don't need to add more than one class every expansion either. Better yet, I wouldn't mind if they added one class every other expansion. I think that would allow them to allocate resources elsewhere, potentially to fitting a new, much requested class into the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleChickenNugget

Please SE give us Beast Master next expansion, ty.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nucah

I feel Beast Master will be a limited job :(

---

I would like a minion master as a limited job. Then I could actually put my army of pudgy puks to good use outside of the Gold Saucer!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

I usually craft, but, isn’t that not fair for the healer mains that have waited years for a new healer?

---

It's also not fair that the current healers got stripped and gutted down for the sake of "balance". I'd rather a 4th one was spared that treatment than added purely because of tradition.

I’m all for not having new jobs. While I enjoy playing gunbreaker, I’d be okay for devs to delete if it meant HW DRK coming back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raqrie_Tohka

But how would we start about “overhauling” the combat system and class design philosophy? It’s complex and risky even for professional development teams.

Just curious, it’s a deep topic.

---

Definitely. I'd imagine you'd want to start from a list of things that you want to be possible, if only for future-proofing, including some more definite leads or concrete gameplay goals, consider the undermechanics necessary for those things, and then finally consider what netcode changes would be necessary for those things.

For instance, the way our code works allows us to "absorb" the effects of up to 250 ms ping on GCD skills, but appears to zero protection for oGCD skills, for which the delay before we can perform any other action is increased by twice our ping (atop the base 600 ms delay). This rapidly increases the delay inflicted upon players of higher ping, until 200 ms ping would require a 3-second GCD to double-weave. (Of course, when they first made the claim that the game would be equally playable by all players up to 200 ms ping, wasn't the game in beta, still with a 3-second GCD? Hmm.)

A "simple" change (in terms of the described change, though likely not in term of the effort required to work around the code change) to allow for oGCDs to query the server earlier in the same way that GCDs do would be tremendous, but what actual gameplay could form from that? After all, even if the skill goes off early, the damage won't, so the increased responsiveness won't actually allow us an action every .6 seconds in terms of damage, healing, or mitigation generated or effects inflicted; all that would still rely on the server tick, which would for then remain painfully infrequent compared to most triple-A MMOs.

If we wanted more interception mechanics, the ability to stagger enemies in any way, more active mitigation, or more responsive healing to synergize with new expansions in healing kits, all that would take an increased frequency of the server tick. But it'd probably feel a waste to plan for all those things before we have even a single concrete desire. And so begins the loosest part of the brainstorming phase, which will then contract and expand according to whatever it finds lucrative.