Coming back to WHM

So I play tank and a dps occasionally. I haven't played a whm since 2.0 literally and also just boosted him to 70.

Trying to find videos or guides to get me back in to healing again. Trying to find basic rotations but also certain spells to have on my bar and not.

Last time was when stances were a thing.

I just remember regen on tank. Spam medica and cure 1 until cure 3 procs was all.

I know everything had changed

Please help lol.

You should have everything on your bar.

The basics of dungeon healing haven't really changed. Regen the tank, but asylum on him too. DPS until you run out of oGCDs* to heal with. Even when you're out of oGCDs, still DPS unless you absolutely have to hard cast a heal on the tank.

The Hall of the Novice can instruct you on the very basics if you really feel a need to review.

*WHM's oGCDs would be Tetragrammaton, Assize, Divine Benison (feel free to use this one pre-pull), Asylum, and Benediction

When you're ready to minmax more, then you can start building the blood lily. But get the basics down first.

First and foremost, your job is to keep people alive. Your host of oGCD abilities (Asylum, Assize, Tetragrammaton, etc) should be your first priority for use, Then Afflatus (Solace, Rapture) as they allow you to cast Misery at level 74. If that isn't enough then Regen, Cure2 (single-target), Medica2 and Cure 3 (AoE) should be your go-to spells (as they are your stronger spells), Cure 1 and Medica 1 are your weaker spells for worst-case scenarios (Cure 1 is cheap on mana, Medica1 has more range than Cure3)

As you get more comfortable in the role, you'll find that you don't need to constantly cast healing spells and you can start casting damaging spells to help out with killing things faster.

Jump-potioning is bad because it stops you from organically learning the role. In your case, I'd suggest either picking up AST/SCH to learn to heal properly, or...
Doing every dungeon (besides 50/60/70) in level order so that you can get a kind-of organic leveling experience.

I dont need an organic experience as I have healed and maxed out in 2.0 I was looking for a general breakdown and update on things. I'll do the Hall of Novice but i dont feel a need to bar every skill. I'm not trying to be static elite. Just enough to learn and get through end content and be decent.

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Originally Posted by XeroXelence

I dont need an organic experience as I have healed and maxed out in 2.0 I was looking for a general breakdown and update on things. I'll do the Hall of Novice but i dont feel a need to bar every skill. I'm not trying to be static elite. Just enough to learn and get through end content and be decent.

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If you're looking to be decent you'll want to map most of your abilities. You can probably take Cure, Repose, Fluid Aura, Rescue, and maybe Esuna off your bars. Everything else should be on there and used regularly.

Good healing is about using all your available tools as efficiently as possible in order to maximize your contribution. Choosing to discard any useful tools is choosing to preclude oneself from achieving competence.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

If you're looking to be decent you'll want to map most of your abilities. You can probably take Cure, Repose, Fluid Aura, Rescue, and maybe Esuna off your bars. Everything else should be on there and used regularly.

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This is just terrible advice. Why would you take cure off your bar? Hurr durr you don't use your basic cure Deceptus!. . . Until you get synced down.

And Take Esuna off? What are you smoking?

My advice: Don't forget about Holy. It's an on demand hallowed ground like mitigation that is available every single pull that has the advantage of doing damage as well. Swiftcast the first one if you're not feeling comfortable with the timing and your tank is melting. Cure II and then do another.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

This is just terrible advice. Why would you take cure off your bar? Hurr durr you don't use your basic cure Deceptus!. . . Until you get synced down.

And Take Esuna off? What are you smoking?

My advice: Don't forget about Holy. It's an on demand hallowed ground like mitigation that is available every single pull that has the advantage of doing damage as well. Swiftcast the first one if you're not feeling comfortable with the timing and your tank is melting. Cure II and then do another.

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Cure and Esuna are two of the least used abilities that WHM has.

If you get a low level dungeon there's plenty of time to replace Cure II with Cure before any healing is needed. There's no problem removing it from hotbars if you're looking to save space.

Only a slender portion of debuffs in the game can be cleansed. Out of that minute list, a half dozen at most are worth the GCD it takes to cleanse. I'm struggling to think of an instance in ShB that requires it. For the few duties where it does matter, it's trivial to place it on a hotbar temporarily. Last time I can recall needing it was Orbonne, and even then it was optional if the tank popped a strong CD and was relatively topped off.

While it's certainly odd that those healing spells would be some of the least used on a healer, the reality is that they simply aren't necessary the overwhelming majority of the time. Ideally everything would be left on the hotbars, but if someone is unwilling or unable to include everything then it makes sense to drop less used abilities first. In my experience healer LB3 gets used more frequently than Cure and Esuna.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

"In your experience....".

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Not everyone has your experience and OP is someone that has taken a long hiatus from WHM so his experiences will be much different as a result. He isn't fully aware of the changes made to WHM, such as the replacement of Stoneskin with Divine Benison, the introduction of Thin Air, etc. so he's going to have to familiarize himself with all that before anything else so telling him to remove Cure and Esuna is going to be a problem if he doesn't learn as quickly as you did.

From MY experience, I still use Cure quite often due in part to the fact that, while WHM does have the best MP sustain in the game, there are moments when PUGs are PUGs and I have to manage my MP at least somewhat cautiously due to the amount of rezzing I have needed to perform. Take a recent run of E4N I had, in which everyone other than the PLD and myself was about as useful as a sack of potatos since they were dead the majority of the time. RDM yeeted himself off more than a few times, the BLM took Turret to the extreme by standing dead center of the arena and refused to move, the 2 Dancers would always Standard Step a hundred miles from the Boss and never used Technical Step or even Closed Position, AST was too busy playing with his cards to heal or pay attention to mechanics, and I swear the WAR was using Onslaught whenever it was on CD, resulting in him running directly into his death more than a few time. It was annoying, and I did stop attempting to rez after scrapping the AST and RDM up for the 3th time and neither one bothering to help rez more people but I was really hard pressed on MP at that point that I was just using Cure 1 whenever I didn't have a Lily up for Solace/Rapture and all my oGCD were spent.

I'm not saying that WHM couldn't drop Cure 1 in a static setting when you're fully knowledgeable about everything but to someone that has more than a little bit of rust it might be best to shy away from that type of advice.

On topic, WHM has received a far bit of changes to its toolkit.
Stoneskin 1+2 have been completely removed. Instead you get a oGCD single target Shield called Divine Benison that has a flat shielding value instead of scaling on the Health % of the target.
Protect is completely gone now.
WHM has a new mechanic called Lilies. They are used to fuel Afflatus Solace and Afflatus Rapture, which are pretty much instant cast Cure 2 and Medica. Every use of a Lily ability will Fuel the Bloody Lily which allows the use of Afflatus Misery, a beefy AoE damage spell.
Thin Air is also your best friend as it makes all your spells for 12 seconds cost absolutely nothing at all and is why WHM is King of Healer sustain.

cure 1 absolutely sucks in any content except low level cuz its basically the only heal you even have.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

In my experience healer LB3 gets used more frequently than Cure and Esuna.

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Tongue in cheek, but maybe if white mages used Cure and Esuna there wouldn't be a need to healer LB3 :p

To the OP, just play it, you can always try against striking dummies or unsync a dungeon solo to see how it feels

Cure I is only useful in leveling roulette. Once you hit 30 you should forget it exists.

Your oGcd's and lily heals are very important. For dungeon healing you want to make use of Asylum at the end of a pull, open with Holy for the stun, Beni and regen your tank and spam Holy fitting in Tetra/Bene/Solace as needed. If you have 3 lilies, it's ok to burn a couple in-between to prepare Misery for the next trash pack.
For boss/trial/raid healing, you Regen less often in ShB, aim to Tetra/Solace/Beni them first, Regen if those are all on cd, Cure II is a last resort. Lily heals again, are great. Rapture has a wide range and a significant 500 total Potency with Plenary which you should make good use of. In general Medica II is better than Medica if your group won't die within 6 seconds and results in far more potency. Plan your asylum if the group has to stack/is stacked but it's fine to just Asylum the tank, it's a solid 800 potency free ogcd heal with heal buff. Cure III is hard to use in pugs due to limited range and often unnecessary in Normal content even in a messy run. Generally Assize and Presence of Mind on cd for dps. Lucid on CD, aim not to forget it.

Also a little more advanced but make good use of Weave windows. Regen, Lily heals, Swiftcast spells and Dia will give you a window where you can fit 1-2 oGcd abilities without clipping, making it a great time for things like Lucid, Beni, Asylum, Presence, Assize, Tetra, Bene, Thin air, Plenary. If you can't weave these and need them, just clip them though.

Great response thank you!! Yeah I've been doing 2.0 cure in my head lol.

Been leveling and using trust. My.old ways were Cure 1 to proc Cure 2. Regen on tank. Medica 2 spam before dropping. Then weave in Aero 2 and Stone 4 with Holy.

I'll have to learn the new skills and how to weave them in and change everything up.

I have been using the lily heal on the tank which seems is a massive heal. Outside that all the utility ones I haven't touched yet

Is Aero 2 even as a DOT at only 60 potency even valid or honestly remove from my bar?

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Originally Posted by XeroXelence

Is Aero 2 even as a DOT at only 60 potency even valid or honestly remove from my bar?

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Yes, please always use your DoT's on every class in general, it may look small but it builds up, especially when in WHM's case the application does damage. You'd generally want to weave your Assizes in between these applications and your lilies where possible.

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Originally Posted by Ulelu

Yes, please always use your DoT's on every class in general, it may look small but it builds up, especially when in WHM's case the application does damage. You'd generally want to weave your Assizes in between these applications and your lilies where possible.

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To add to this, those instant cast dots are a really good thing to put on mobs while your tank is running from pack to pack. You can usually get 3 or 4 off (or more) before the tank stops and you can start Holy spamming.

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Originally Posted by XeroXelence

Is Aero 2 even as a DOT at only 60 potency even valid or honestly remove from my bar?

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that's 60 potency every 2 seconds for 30 seconds, so that's 900 potency = 3 glares.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

that's 60 potency every 2 seconds for 30 seconds, so that's 900 potency = 3 glares.

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While using Aero 2 is indeed a dps gain, your math is not correct. Server tics are every 3 seconds and the duration of Aero 2 is only 18 seconds.

So it's 6 tics for 60 potency each plus 60 potency initial damage - that's a combined potency of 420 (wich is still a dps gain over Glare, wich has 300 potency, but of course you have to compare that to Stone 2, 3 and 4, wich are even weaker than Glare).

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Originally Posted by Tint

While using Aero 2 is indeed a dps gain, your math is not correct. Server tics are every 3 seconds and the duration of Aero 2 is only 18 seconds.

So it's 6 tics for 60 potency each plus 60 potency initial damage - that's a combined potency of 420 (wich is still a dps gain over Glare, wich has 300 potency, but of course you have to compare that to Stone 2, 3 and 4, wich are even weaker than Glare).

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woops, assumed it was 2, still a gain, so same stuff

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Originally Posted by JowyAtreides

Tongue in cheek, but maybe if white mages used Cure and Esuna there wouldn't be a need to healer LB3 :p

To the OP, just play it, you can always try against striking dummies or unsync a dungeon solo to see how it feels

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You can't heal people jumping into one shotting AoE

It's people like Jaelommiss that cause wipes.

I HATE it when people refuse to cast Esuna in groups.

There are some dungeons where there are DoTs that are very powerful, sometimes downright lethal. Anywhere from that sand dungeon I can't remember the name of for trying (the 2nd boss, the sandworm) to Mist Dragon, to a plethora of bosses that like Damage Down debuffs, or situational debuffs (the Tome in Gubal Library slowing someone is pretty much a death sentence if it isn't Esuna'd fast), or how about that scorpion in Sastasha Hard? Not Esuna'ing that is almost a guaranteed wipe. Either way, having a healer that refuses to cast Esuna sucks.

As for Cure.... Cure is a hard-casted heal that casts faster than most spells and sometimes it can just barely save a life, especially if it were to crit. When you are Sync'd, or your Tetra was already used, Bene's gone, and you're out of flowers... Cure is that quick cast that might get you out of a jam. That, and if you get synch'd, then what?

As for the OP... I know my advice is not popular, but...

At first, Cure is going to be your main heal. Cure II will eat your MP like crazy. This isn't Stormblood. You're not meant to spam Cure II as your main heal. You now get flowers at regular intervals and you get two new heals: Solace and Rapture. Single-Target and AoE respectively. Using 3 of these causes the big red flower to grow until it activates Misery which is a powerful AoE damage spell.

Solace and Rapture are **NOT** oGCD -- they are instant but will trigger GCD. Don't treat these like oGCDs.

You got Tetra and Bene like usual, Benison is still there and it's still good to use on a regular basis.

They nerfed Medica II's HoT, so don't go relying on that. Again, this ain't Stormblood.

Plenary Indulgence makes your next one or two Medica/Medica II/Rapture heal for pretty much double (or more) than it would have normally healed, hopefully everybody is within range when you pop it.

And don't forget about Assize which seems stronger than it used to be? Not sure on that.

Otherwise.... it's mostly the same.

Didn't they just speed up Medica 2, not nerf it?

EDIT: Yeah, the duration was halved from 30 to 15 seconds, but the potency was doubled from 50 to 100.

Don't give the guy bad advice if you don't understand WhM that well.

You're technically correct on Esuna to a point. It has a tiny handful of situational uses, like paralyze and a few bosses with lethal DoT's designed to be removed. I'd keep it on your bar. However you could count all these situations on one hand. Most DoT's won't outpace a HoT, they aren't "very powerful", they're just a nuisance. Poison in particular tends to be barely noticeable. Bad healers will Esuna these on sight and think they're being useful, but are in reality wasting GCD's. I very rarely need Esuna.

Cure is rubbish. Really, just forget it exists after lv30 and only use Cure II. Cure II won't eat your MP like crazy, yes this isn't Stormblood, we have more MP management than ever.
Cure II will indeed be your main single target heal (after Tetra, Bene and Regen) until you unlock Solace which is first priority.

Did I mention Cure is bad?

Solace and Rapture may not be oGCD but they're worth 225 potency each (after lv74) and create a weave window (weave windows are very valuable on WhM). They are not like regular GCD heals.

Medica II was not nerfed. It was buffed. The potency was doubled and the duration halved, so the HoT is stronger and condensed. This isn't Stormblood. It's better than Medica in most situations.

Plenary is 200 Potency. The others are 200-300. You mean double (or less), not more. Plenary is great though.

Assize is exactly the same as before. You use it on cd for dps.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Don't give the guy bad advice if you don't understand WhM that well.

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I understand WHM perfectly well for general use for which the OP was asking.

They weren't looking for max DPS savage raiding guides, they were looking for layman's terms, the casual Expert Roulette type stuff. Which very few people on these boards understand, and I've experienced this myself, is I'm just looking for general tips and people are going on and on about weaving oGCDs and pushing 99.9% performance out of the job when... that's not what I'm looking for. Neither is the OP. People on these forums talk like you gotta be absolute perfection, rather than giving general pointers to start with, and slowly adding more as the person gets more skilled with the job and more comfortable doing the job, no they think you should MaxDPS right from the start the first time you try to play.

Then what happens is a person Q's up, tries to do that and fumbles all over themselves and people die while they were casting DPS spells because they forgot the first job of the healer is to, you know, cast heals to keep people alive.

Instead of going on and on about weaving and max DPS, how about letting the OP understand the heal buttons, and advise him on different methods, and such to let him get muscle memory and stuff like that down, first?

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You're technically correct on Esuna to a point. It has a tiny handful of situational uses, like paralyze and a few bosses with lethal DoT's designed to be removed. I'd keep it on your bar. However you could count all these situations on one hand. Most DoT's won't outpace a HoT, they aren't "very powerful", they're just a nuisance. Poison in particular tends to be barely noticeable. Bad healers will Esuna these on sight and think they're being useful, but are in reality wasting GCD's. I very rarely need Esuna.

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I was replying to the person who said to remove it from your bar altogether, lol. Why are you talking like we disagree on this?

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Cure is rubbish. Really, just forget it exists after lv30 and only use Cure II. Cure II won't eat your MP like crazy, yes this isn't Stormblood, we have more MP management than ever.
Cure II will indeed be your main single target heal (after Tetra, Bene and Regen) until you unlock Solace which is first priority.

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Until some tank that knows nothing about mitigation buttons decides to pull 3 groups of mobs and you blow Tetra, Benediction, Benison, all 3 Solaces, and Assize and have nothing left. Cure2 spam will eat through your MP rather fast. It's happened to me before.

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Did I mention Cure is bad?

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Not in all situations. *shrug*

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Solace and Rapture may not be oGCD but they're worth 225 potency each (after lv74) and create a weave window (weave windows are very valuable on WhM). They are not like regular GCD heals.

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Again you're talking about weaving and junk that you worry about in Savage Raids. I never once said that Solace and Rapture should be avoided and not used. When did I say that? I said "Don't treat it like an oGCD button" as in, don't hit one of these buttons expecting to immediately cast something else right after because it ain't gonna happen.

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Medica II was not nerfed. It was buffed. The potency was doubled and the duration halved, so the HoT is stronger and condensed. This isn't Stormblood. It's better than Medica in most situations.

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But yet you need to cast more of them to keep the HoT up, it falls off a lot quicker.

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Plenary is 200 Potency. The others are 200-300. You mean double (or less), not more. Plenary is great though.

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Odd, I oftentimes see the Plenary heal come up as being more than the original heal. The numbers are displayed on screen, afterall.

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Assize is exactly the same as before. You use it on cd for dps.

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Maybe it has something to do with gear levels and health pools, that this is early patch and my last memories of Assize from Stormblood being late patch, but it just seems to heal for more % of someone's health meter now than it did before despite the potency numbers attached to it.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

I was replying to the person who said to remove it from your bar altogether, lol.

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I listed my five least used WHM actions because OP wanted to know what actions were optional.

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Originally Posted by XeroXelence

Trying to find basic rotations but also certain spells to have on my bar and not.

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After being told that it's best to keep everything mapped, he insisted that:

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Originally Posted by XeroXelence

I'll do the Hall of Novice but i dont feel a need to bar every skill.

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While it is best to keep all actions available, if we are trying to answer the question "what can be safely removed?" then we must accept that we are no longer seeking an optimal situation. No matter what is chosen to be removed there will be fringe cases where the removed actions would have been useful.

In answer to OP's question I supplied Repose, Fluid Aura, Rescue, Cure, and Esuna. The first three are almost never used and the last two can temporarily replace something else on the hotbars when required. There is plenty of time to replace Cure II with Cure in low level dungeons or to place Esuna on the bars in the handful of instances where it is worth using.

I maintain that these actions are used less than others and that there is a smaller impact to removing them compared to other actions. It's still a bad idea to remove them, but that's a given when attempting to answer OP's question.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

It's people like Jaelommiss that cause wipes.

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My personal performance speaks for itself. You're more than welcome to check it for yourself if you truly think I'm a poor healer.

Rather than attacking on someone for answering the question, why don't you take a crack at it? What abilities would you suggest OP forgo given that he is insisting that he doesn't need them all?



Edit: Upon further thought, making two macros to swap between two hotbars would probably be the best solution if the inability to map all actions stems from limited screen real estate or difficulty using a keyboard or controller. It trades two buttons (one on each bar) for an additional hotbar. If the limitation is related to player ability to learn and understand multiple abilities then this would not work.

There’s honestly no reason to not have all of your skills on your bar, though—well, with the exception of Fluid Aura and Repose. The latter is needed during one of the ShB role quests for healers (they literally force you to use it for a mechanic), but otherwise, I don’t find myself using it too much. I still have it on an auxiliary bar just in case I feel extra dangerous and want to cast it, though. It’s good for things like PotD and HoH, but if you aren’t running that content, it loses much of its value beyond level 30 or so. Even against overworld mobs, since they aren’t that dangerous. Fluid Aura I removed when 4.0 dropped and they took the damage off of it; it serves virtually no purpose.

WHM doesn’t have enough skills that one would need to be concerned about saving space—I’ve fit everything (including the role skills; not including Fluid Aura and Repose) onto less than 2 crossbars of space (I have my primary cross bar [16 buttons] and then 8 buttons on the second one that I use in just about every encounter [for a total of 24 buttons]); and, with the Extended Cross, I can access all of them without even swapping my crossbars at all. Concerns about hotbar space on this job are virtually non-existent.

Please do have Esuna on your bar. Even if it’s not needed in high-end content, it will be your luck that you get thrown into something like Dun Scaith or Exdeath NM and actually need it to cleanse a Doom mechanic. The amount of times people die to those two Dooms because healers don’t have Esuna on their bar is a bit unbelievable (and it’s quite annoying when I’m the one who dies because they won’t use the skill). I also have Cure I on my bar despite not using it at all at higher levels—mostly so that, when I’m thrown into a piece of baby content, I don’t have to open up my actions and start moving things around and wasting time. There’s still plenty of room for all of your necessary skills with it and Esuna present. And having them on there doesn’t make you some “elite”—it just means that you’re prepared for every scenario.

The off globals and cooldowns beyond 60 gradually reduce the need to use the basic GCD heals for White Mage. Sometimes, I am only needing to use Regen as my basic spell on the tank with Tetragrammaton, Divine Benison and Afflatus Solace taking care of most the rest. For the 80 Expert wall to wall pulls I do, Temperance (Angel Wings), Asylum and Thin Air + Presence of Mind are staggered to keep the tank up. Anytime I can get away with using Holy for trash pulls, I do so and use Tetra / Divine Benison in between when necessary. It really helps to stun the enemies while Regen and Asylum are rolling on the tank. This may be unnecessary to say, but remember to use Lucid Dreaming when you drop below around 8000 mana.

For the Cure debate, I may use it on occasion to top off a tank if I am unsure how well they may take multiple bursts. In most cases for the 4 man 80 dungeons, the tanks don't need it very much from me. If anything, the DPS might get it from me more often than the tank which is still not very much more. Afflatus Solace and Tetra may have a higher chance of usage if the DPS took enough damage. 24 man Alliance raids may be a different story for Cure usage on the tank.

As for the heal I use the least, it seems to be Cure 3. It may have more range, but the radius is only 6 yalms with Medica covering 15 yalms around oneself. I still have it on the bar just in case I really need it for a stack mechanic. Even then, I can often use Assize, Afflatus Rapture and Medica 2 first before needing to consider Cure 3 or Medica.

The spells that could be removed with almost no implications are Rescue and Fluid Aura. The bind from Fluid Aura is usually unnecessary with how much you can heal yourself soloing. The times I tried to use Rescue, the DPS still got hit by the mechanic since it took 2 - 3 seconds until it finally yanked the player to me. Repose does get used for the Healer Role quest of Shadowbringers, but almost never again it seems for other times.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

snip

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That is exactly my experience with WHM.
Though if I want to top someone off I prefer to place Regen on them over using Cure, so I never use Cure on the higher level content.
I think for a next expansion Cure is one of the spells that could use an upgrade trait.

@Jael:

Okay, here are the skills I've found very little use in. Keep in mind that this is NOT for Savage/Extreme content, but for Expert Roulettes and Trials:

1). Fluid Aura. Does anybody use this, at all, for any reason? If you did get aggro, you want to run the mob to the tank, not push it away from you (and probably away from the tank as well).
2). Repose.
3). I know I'm gonna get flak for this, but Cure 3. We got Medica II. We got Rapture. I've not seen a use for Cure 3 in 4-man, or 8man Trials. It seems like Cure3 is more used for very specific situations in which you stack as I've found the radius appears to be abysmally small, even smaller than Plenary Indulgence which already misses people frequently because Ranged DPS seem to think that they must stay at maximum casting range at all times.
4). Medica. I very rarely use this. If we take a big hit, I will usually Plenary+Medica II, or Plenary+Rapture. If we take a small AoE hit, it's just gonna be a Medica II likely if I expect we're going to take another soon. Otherwise its a Rapture.

I think everything else should stay on the hotbars other than maybe some of the lesser-used Role actions... but yet even things like Rescue should be on there because you never know when you could save a life with it, but if it ain't on your bar then... well, that's not happening.

EDIT: My apologies for any 'attacks', I will admit that I said what I did out of frustration because I have run into a number of bad healers who never Esuna anything, including the times you REALLY need to, like the times I mentioned in my response to you. I never meant to imply Everything that can be Esuna should be Esuna'd, but yet when we get a wipe on Mist Dragon because people dropped dead of the DoT there (this was rather frequent back when it was current), it started to get old really fast, having to tell healers that they NEED to Esuna that.

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Why are you talking like we disagree on this?

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I never said we did. I elaborated on how Esuna, while situationally useful, isn't something you want to spam on every DoT or debuff you see.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Until some tank that knows nothing about mitigation buttons decides to pull 3 groups of mobs and you blow Tetra, Benediction, Benison, all 3 Solaces, and Assize and have nothing left. Cure2 spam will eat through your MP rather fast. It's happened to me before.

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How are you going to keep a tank with 3 groups of mobs on them and no mitigation alive by switching to 450 potency heals over 700? I've never been in that situation, especially with good Thin Air, Holy and Lucid usage, but it sounds like a tank that bad is screwed either way.

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Again you're talking about weaving and junk that you worry about in Savage Raids.

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I don't even run Savage right now. Why would you choose to play poorly in content because it's not Savage? Weaving is very important. I never accused you of saying Solace Rapture shouldn't be used, but they are by nature different from regular GCD's which is important to note.

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But yet you need to cast more of them to keep the HoT up, it falls off a lot quicker.

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You never aim to maintain full uptime on a Medica II HoT. There isn't enough raidwide aoe in most fights. You don't need to cast it more often than in Stormblood.

Anyway, not trying to start arguments, just want to keep the advice clear and correct for the OP's sake.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I never said we did. I elaborated on how Esuna, while situationally useful, isn't something you want to spam on every DoT or debuff you see.

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Ahh, kinda sounded like it? Maybe I misread.

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How are you going to keep a tank with 3 groups of mobs on them and no mitigation alive by switching to 450 potency heals over 700? I've never been in that situation, especially with good Thin Air, Holy and Lucid usage, but it sounds like a tank that bad is screwed either way.

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Usually what happens in this type of situation is I blow Tetra, my flowers, Benediction, Assize, and by the time all of these are done, there's only 2-3 mobs left in the pull and Cure/Cure II is enough to keep the tank going until the end of the pull (and it's all I got left). I will usually try to pop some Freecures with Cure 1 when I think I can sneak one in without the tank dying, and by the time this is all said and done, I hope to have 3, 4k+ MP left so that I start the next pull with full MP or near it. Now sometimes by this time, Tetra might be back up, and I might have gotten a flower, maybe almost 2 by now, but I don't wanna blow them because I know he's just going to do the same thing all over again with the next pull and I really need those buttons to be ready for the next pull and I don't want to waste them when the hardcasted Cures will be enough.

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I don't even run Savage right now. Why would you choose to play poorly in content because it's not Savage? Weaving is very important. I never accused you of saying Solace Rapture shouldn't be used, but they are by nature different from regular GCD's which is important to note.

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There's a difference between playing "Poorly" and being a bit relaxed and not at the edge of your seat trying to squeeze every GCD and oGCD possible.

That or maybe I'm misunderstanding the definition of "weaving" -- when someone says that, I picture people trying to squeeze out every 0.1sec that they possibly can, trying to sneak oGCD spells inbetween non-oGCD stuff, etc.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

That is exactly my experience with WHM.
Though if I want to top someone off I prefer to place Regen on them over using Cure, so I never use Cure on the higher level content.
I think for a next expansion Cure is one of the spells that could use an upgrade trait.

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Yeah. Cure does have a trait, but it's a small chance to make Cure 2 free of cost. I do make use of this trait for the few times I decided to use Cure, but it simply won't keep up with the damage for a double or wall to wall pull. Even when using the power cooldown Temperance, the tank tends to need Cure 2 / Afflatus Solace instead of Cure still.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

Yeah. Cure does have a trait, but it's a small chance to make Cure 2 free of cost. I do make use of this trait for the few times I decided to use Cure, but it simply won't keep up with the damage for a double or wall to wall pull. Even when using the power cooldown Temperance, the tank tends to need Cure 2 / Afflatus Solace instead of Cure still.

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Cure indeed can't keep up with a full group of mobs, but I find it's nice for when the double pull gets down to like 3-4 mobs left when a few cures is enough, when you want to save a flower, Tetra, etc for the next pull. It's also nice for the tank to start the next pull with full or near full health instead of running off to throw his weapon/shield/whatever at the next mob with only having 50% health or somesuch which puts him into combat and stops his out of combat healing. Some pulls, such as in Akademia are somewhat close to each other, and so it's better if he finishes the previous pull with more health rather than saying "Oh, he won't die before the mobs do so I'll let him go way down to 25% before worrying"...

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Odd, I oftentimes see the Plenary heal come up as being more than the original heal. The numbers are displayed on screen, afterall.

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This is because Plenary can crit independently of the AoE heal being cast, although I do not believe FFlogs tracks it as a crit - nor do you get the giant crit numbers with it. The crit amount should roughly follow Medica II's crit amount as they're both 200 base potency.

https://i.imgur.com/LauItxu.png\
https://i.imgur.com/91ymT8e.png

As such, using it with Medica II can net you a higher PI heal, and due to +/- variance in our heals a crit PI can slightly outheal a noncrit medica or rapture.

That's weird. I wonder why the PI heal does not show the giant crit numbers with the ! after it...

Well, that explains that I guess, lol.

At least I am not entirely crazy for thinking that PI was as good as, if not better than, the original heal.