Can you plz finally do something about the Tank Stances?

Really the are annoying as hell. I decided yesterday to farm Fates in the new Zones as PLD to unlock the Stuff from the Gemstone Traders and each time i sync with a new Fate the stupid stance turns off.

I was already used to it during dungeon farming (witch is also shitty), but i didn't know that this also happens to fate. Sometimes i even forgot to turn in on again because i move from fate to fate so fast.

In another thread someone mentioned that it is because the stances are handled as buffs. But i think this is no excuse for big developer like SE to leave things like that.

My suggestion would be to handle like some kind of Aura that is active all the time until you turn it off manually (by pressing the button) and reactivate it later.

I never really understood why there was a stance to begin with but I don’t really tank. I feel like it should always be active unless you turn it off for whatever reason.

I agree the stance is pointless unless you wanna troll someone in group content. Aggro Is broken in this game imo. Why have the option to turn it off? Better yet if I sync to lower level dungeon or fate as tank its understood I need the aggro so just have stance as a trait instead of a cooldown.
Really this is the only issue I have with tanking.

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Originally Posted by Lexi

I never really understood why there was a stance to begin with but I don’t really tank. I feel like it should always be active unless you turn it off for whatever reason.

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If it was always active you would have an aggro ping pong right from the first pull since certain tanks generate aggro quicker with their opener.

Tank stance is really there to help with the 8/24 man related content since certain mechs will require a tank swap due to debuffs(O4S) or positioning ease (E2S). Meanwhile on the 24 man end it'll allow aggro to flow better and not have a situation where if the mt dies the boss spins around due to two tanks fighting for aggro.

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Originally Posted by Lexi

I never really understood why there was a stance to begin with but I don’t really tank. I feel like it should always be active unless you turn it off for whatever reason.

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That solution would also work. For the why i think its the same reason like in other mmos. When you are in a raid where you have one main tank and the others are not needed all time its a good solution to avoid aggro stealing. So the boss can focus on the main and dont switch between all the tanks the whole time.

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Originally Posted by Noitems

If it was always active you would have an aggro ping pong right from the first pull since certain tanks generate aggro quicker with their opener.\

Tank stance is really there to help with the 8/24 man related content since certain mechs will require a tank swap due to debuffs(O4S) or positioning ease (E2S). Meanwhile on the 24 man end it'll allow aggro to flow better and not have a situation where if the mt dies the boss spins around due to two tanks fighting for aggro.

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Ok :) makes sense like I said I never really tanked just with my squadron.

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Originally Posted by Lexi

Ok :) makes sense like I said I never really tanked just with my squadron.

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In 4 person content it's currently a non issue with the tank buffs, but back in SB with how aggro was it was more important to manage and then switch to dps stance to hold hate but also get more damage in since the old tank stance gave you a damage penalty in exchange for better aggro generation.

If you run with real people you'll start to understand why it's important. Especially if you ever do alliance raids and see two tanks try to fight over aggro because of a dick measuring contest.

Out of curiosity: Did anyone get reported for harrassment yet for forgetting to turn on tank stance and getting someone killed? ^^

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Originally Posted by Noitems

If it was always active you would have an aggro ping pong right from the first pull since certain tanks generate aggro quicker with their opener.

Tank stance is really there to help with the 8/24 man related content since certain mechs will require a tank swap due to debuffs(O4S) or positioning ease (E2S). Meanwhile on the 24 man end it'll allow aggro to flow better and not have a situation where if the mt dies the boss spins around due to two tanks fighting for aggro.

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Good point there...but it shows how broken aggro is. Why do we have to fight for aggro with multiple tanks? I know for raiding tanks swap in case on dies, but a lot of OT don't turn on there stance because mt has it on. Imo stances are just not well done. I tank four man as The Tank so why do I need a stance dps and heals should never be able to steal hate in that situation but they designed by dps for generation thus creating a stance to compensate. I m rambling a bit but just think they could do better with aggro.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Out of curiosity: Did anyone get reported for harrassment yet for forgetting to turn on tank stance and getting someone killed? ^^

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No? Generally when this has happened in runs I've done it's generally been the following:

Non-tank - "Hey your tank stance isn't on."
Tank - "Oh thanks, yea I hate how it comes off when you get synced down."

Not actual words but generally how it goes.

Edit: I used generally way too much in this post.

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Originally Posted by Lexi

I never really understood why there was a stance to begin with but I don’t really tank. I feel like it should always be active unless you turn it off for whatever reason.

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This is literally how Gathers work; They have an ability which lets them see gathering nodes (Prospect for Miner, for example), and a trait which has it so that ability automatically activates. There is literally no reason to, but you can turn it off manually by using the ability again. Tank stance could work the same, have it get turned on by default and leave it up to off-tanks to remember to turn it off.

I'd say just make the effect of tank stance the default for tanks as a trait though, and change the existing stance into an off-tank stance; Rather than turning Grit on to tank, you turn Grit on to off-tank. I think they could also do some more interesting Job specific things with that as well, rather than having all 4 abilities be effectively the same thing. For example, Warriors off-stance ability could instead be a reworked version of Ninjas old Shadewalker ability. Would be nice to see some class identity return to tanks... Only reason the stance exists in the first place is to facilitate off-tanking at this point (I do miss turning it off to maximize damage and actually having to watch enmity, though), and I think there are much better ways to do that than a simple on/off switch for enmity generation...

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Out of curiosity: Did anyone get reported for harrassment yet for forgetting to turn on tank stance and getting someone killed? ^^

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Ive never been reported for not having tank stance but im pretty sure I got kicked because I didn't have it on for a sub boss fight and after I was out which I get I wasn't paying attention and saw aggro all over the place. So I deserved to be kicked, I had to readjust Cross bar because I have a bad habit of placing stance next to combos and I turn it off without realizing. I felt bad for heals cause it just makes fighting crappy.

This is not a Tank issue, imo this is not even a issue to begin with. All jobs, all stances, all buffs turn off when you sync anything.

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Originally Posted by DenzelVilliers

This is not a Tank issue, imo this is not even a issue to begin with. All jobs, all stances, all buffs turn off when you sync anything.

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Thats right but i like to decide by myself when i turn on or off something. Especially something essential like Tank Stances.

Am I the only who remembers that in SB, they actually changed after players requested it so tank stances would actually stay on when you went into duties that had them available (and now in ShB they reverted it for some reason even though now there's no duty you won't have Tank stance available) or I just imagined it?

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Originally Posted by Missbone

Really the are annoying as hell. I decided yesterday to farm Fates in the new Zones as PLD to unlock the Stuff from the Gemstone Traders and each time i sync with a new Fate the stupid stance turns off.

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You don't know what annoying as hell is before you grinded 1200 Fates to get the Atmas for your WHM Relic. Yes, Cleric Stance was still a thing in 2014 >.>

So yes, I am all for a change o.o/

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Am I the only who remembers that in SB, they actually changed after players requested it so tank stances would actually stay on when you went into duties that had them available (and now in ShB they reverted it for some reason even though now there's no duty you won't have Tank stance available) or I just imagined it?

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You imagined it.

They changed that the tank stance keeps on when you die. Before you always had to reactivate it after a death.

When you entered level synchend content the stance always turned off, but it keeps activated if you don't get synched like in lvl 80 dungeons (or any level appropriate dungeon while leveling).

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Originally Posted by Noitems

If you run with real people you'll start to understand why it's important. Especially if you ever do alliance raids and see two tanks try to fight over aggro because of a dick measuring contest.

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But that's the fun of those raids! XD

All seriousness aside, I think it should be auto on, but at the same time....that would require some bad tanks to pay attention and turn it off...... I guess it's fine as is now, FATE nuisance aside...

All they need to do is fix shirk and use it for swapping tanks and make provoke work on all monsters notice sometimes it says they resist it. Make it so shirk skill can also be used on another alliance Tank. There is no point having tank stance anymore.

I suspect is old programming from the Stormblood days that they just haven't adapted for Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by Missbone

Really the are annoying as hell. I decided yesterday to farm Fates in the new Zones as PLD to unlock the Stuff from the Gemstone Traders and each time i sync with a new Fate the stupid stance turns off.

I was already used to it during dungeon farming (witch is also shitty), but i didn't know that this also happens to fate. Sometimes i even forgot to turn in on again because i move from fate to fate so fast.

In another thread someone mentioned that it is because the stances are handled as buffs. But i think this is no excuse for big developer like SE to leave things like that.

My suggestion would be to handle like some kind of Aura that is active all the time until you turn it off manually (by pressing the button) and reactivate it later.

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Its a hold over. As plenty of us know, we had tank stances and dps stances typically before ShB. But that meant you wouldnt get tank stance typically till 30 or higher. Because of this, when you were to do dungeons below 30, but had the stance on it would need to be shut off. To handle this, I think the devs simply made it when you went into a duty it would turn off the stance regardless of level. Now that tank stance is available pretty much out the gate with no downsides, ti would make sense to make it persistent. But I think they mightve overlooked it or put it off cause recoding that aspect might be a pain.

That being said, since most of the game is gonna rely on party content (dungeons) having a stance as a skill makes the most sense. If you just gave someone a trait, it complicates how tank mechanics operate during things like tank swaps in 8 mans.

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Originally Posted by Lexi

I feel like it should always be active unless you turn it off for whatever reason.

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Frankly, this would solve lots of problems. Instead of having a "tank stance", you could have all WS having an enmity modifier and having a stance that negates that modifier. It's far less dangerous to ping-pong aggro at the beginning than letting a DPS die because you forgot to turn your stance on.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Out of curiosity: Did anyone get reported for harrassment yet for forgetting to turn on tank stance and getting someone killed? ^^

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You seem to have a weird relationship with reporting...

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Originally Posted by Arillyn

No? Generally when this has happened in runs I've done it's generally been the following:

Non-tank - "Hey your tank stance isn't on."
Tank - "Oh thanks, yea I hate how it comes off when you get synced down."

Not actual words but generally how it goes.

Edit: I used generally way too much in this post.

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this happens in savage way more than I'd like to admit. I think if sprint can stay on between fates, so can tank stances.

The Stances are fine honestly, the issue is people agreeing and deciding who the Main tank is.
If someone forgets, just tell them they forgot to turn it off. If they are trolling, just kick them. Or one of my things is...ah, they wanna be main tank? Alright...and I just turn my stance off and let them have it. Im not gonna waste my time and brain cells fighting for aggro. Either Im Main Tank or you are.

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Originally Posted by Jimmymagic

I agree the stance is pointless unless you wanna troll someone in group content. Aggro Is broken in this game imo. Why have the option to turn it off? Better yet if I sync to lower level dungeon or fate as tank its understood I need the aggro so just have stance as a trait instead of a cooldown.
Really this is the only issue I have with tanking.

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What do you do in 8 man fights when there's 2 tanks and you don't want enmity to pingpong between the two? You need a way to ensure enmity is only on one of the tanks and you achieve this through tank stance on vs tank stance off and you enhance this further with Shirk/Provoke.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Frankly, this would solve lots of problems. Instead of having a "tank stance", you could have all WS having an enmity modifier and having a stance that negates that modifier. It's far less dangerous to ping-pong aggro at the beginning than letting a DPS die because you forgot to turn your stance on.

You seem to have a weird relationship with reporting...

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Then you'd have the inverse problem of offtanks forgetting to turn on their enmity-suppressing stance and pulling enmity when they shouldn't.

The stance exists to make tank-swaps easier, and it's probably the most elegant solution I've ever seen to the problem. The only issue is, there are so sooooooooooo few fights that give the other tank things to do, much less involve a tank swap. If there were more tank-related mechanics and people had to tank-swap more, they would probably sing a different tune about the stance.

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Originally Posted by Lexi

I never really understood why there was a stance to begin with but I don’t really tank. I feel like it should always be active unless you turn it off for whatever reason.

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MT and OT are a thing.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Then you'd have the inverse problem of offtanks forgetting to turn on their enmity-suppressing stance and pulling enmity when they shouldn't.

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Maybe they'll pull enmity at the very beginning if they have a stronger opener, but it won't last long, and it won't automatically end in a DPS dying.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

The stance exists to make tank-swaps easier, and it's probably the most elegant solution I've ever seen to the problem. The only issue is, there are so sooooooooooo few fights that give the other tank things to do, much less involve a tank swap. If there were more tank-related mechanics and people had to tank-swap more, they would probably sing a different tune about the stance.

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Tank stance is useful to hold enmity with or without tank swap. Provoke and shirk are what make tank swaps easier.

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Originally Posted by Missbone

That solution would also work. For the why i think its the same reason like in other mmos. When you are in a raid where you have one main tank and the others are not needed all time its a good solution to avoid aggro stealing. So the boss can focus on the main and dont switch between all the tanks the whole time.

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The unfortunate thing is, even though there's supposed to be an MT (meaning singular) I've encountered people in 24 man raids provoking at every available opportunity. If it happens enough though then I simply let them have it, it's not worth fighting over. Or if a dps is pulling every boss I tend to let them take increasing amounts of damage until they get the message before I take it back. It's just annoying is all. Anymore I stop to see if another tank is going to rush in to tank. Most of the time that is exactly what happens. I won't be responsible for starting a tank war.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Maybe they'll pull enmity at the very beginning if they have a stronger opener, but it won't last long, and it won't automatically end in a DPS dying.

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Has nothing to do with a DPS dying. A boss changing targets can screw up NIN (trick attack, positional damage), SAM (positional based kenki generation), DRG (positional damage), MNK (positional damage)...

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Out of curiosity: Did anyone get reported for harrassment yet for forgetting to turn on tank stance and getting someone killed? ^^

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#iseewhatyoudid :)

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Originally Posted by IttyBitty

Has nothing to do with a DPS dying. A boss changing targets can screw up NIN (trick attack, positional damage), SAM (positional based kenki generation), DRG (positional damage), MNK (positional damage)...

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It's still a better outcome than any of them dying for the same kind of mistake. And if you're focused enough, you have True North to mitigate that.

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Originally Posted by Lexi

I never really understood why there was a stance to begin with but I don’t really tank. I feel like it should always be active unless you turn it off for whatever reason.

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I've tanked some higher end content, tank stances make it eaSierra to have the main tank tank and the off tank do their thing. It's needed for fights like es1 where if you don't switch off, you die.

That said, it would be nice if shirk dropped your threat down and kept it that way until your use a taunt, effectively making that the new "tank stance" this removes the annoyance in being synced down, but let's fights like extreme innocence and es1 work with very little issue.

I can't find an edit button on mobile but to clarify what I mean about shirk/taunt:
"Taunt" would be on by default. All your abilities generate aggro. To turn it off your use "shirk" and then you turn it back on again with "taunt". These abilities could be merged into a toggleable button based on which is active.

I find Shirk has very little use unless you are much higher geared than your off tank. But sometimes the tank swaps require you to both hit shirk and turn off your stances, it can be annoying to do tank swaps.

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Originally Posted by Kirajah

"Taunt" would be on by default. All your abilities generate aggro. To turn it off your use "shirk" and then you turn it back on again with "taunt". These abilities could be merged into a toggleable button based on which is active.

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If "Taunt" is up by default, it's more a trait than an ability, and can be tied to Tank Mastery. And then you make Shirk the "not-tank" stance. And you still have Provoke for fast swapping.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

It's still a better outcome than any of them dying for the same kind of mistake. And if you're focused enough, you have True North to mitigate that.

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As a DRG, if I have to squeeze True north into my opener and bump any of my oGCDs a whole GCD because tanks cant remember their tank stance, I'd rather die and start over.

It is one button. :v Press it. For twelve's sake....

Where is my golden “I win” bottom on a silver plate? No? This game sucks i am going back to WoW

It actually was a thing for, like, forever, so I'm surprised you found it only now (unless you are a new player then sorry, mobile version of forum doesn't show when account was created; or if you didn't tank before).

Annoying as it is, there is a sense in it, because stances are basically buffs. There probably ARE ways to change it, but considering that they have problems with coding even more minor things... maybe it's not as easy as it could look.