4 person "trials" in leveling roulette?

In the MSQ, the first 3 times you encounter a primal, it's a 4 person dungeon, but it's really just a short trial. These end up in the leveling roulette, and every time I've encountered one there it's felt like I've been shorted.

It could be that they only seem to short me, I'll admit I've not sat down and run all the numbers, I am going from my gut feeling here. Leveling roulette tends to give 1.5 levels, if a "trial" happens instead, I get about half of that. Even if this isn't true, even if it just feels like less, enough people feel this way that some resent ending up there, and some of those will take it out on the sprouts. This is bad.

I think I get it, if these where not in a major roulette then the new players who are trying to pass the game won't get the help needed to pass these very important first "trials". I ask though, is leveling the right place for them?

What if they where moved into the MSQ Roulette? Yes you'd have to lock the cutscenes to be fair about things. You'd have a constant flow of people who have been well and properly bribed in order to help. They'd be getting those rather large rewards for less work and time.

I only see two problems.


This would put 4 person and 8 person options into the same que. This is not unique, the mentor roulette can put you into any dungeon in the game, so it has this same issue, but can be solved however it was solved for that.

The second trouble is that the awards might be too good if not changed. If they are changed too far it might be hard for MSQ Roulette to serve it's purpose to make sure that people get through that cutscene embedded nightmare.

I fully intend to suggest this the next time we can do a question submission, but I want as much feedback as possible about it. I want it to be clear that we've looked at it in every possible way.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

These end up in the leveling roulette, and every time I've encountered one there it's felt like I've been shorted.

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You're going to feel this even harder if you bundle it into the MSQ roulette.

It's fine as-is, in my opinion.

I miss the days leveling roulette gave 1.5 levels... in the 70s, it's more like 1/3 - 1/2 of a level. XD

That being said, I'd have to run the numbers as well - I believe, however, that you're right in that it's less, since (if I'm remembering correctly) normally the bonus scales with difference between your level and the instance you get, and I'm not sure if it accounts for EXP from trash packs. I don't think it's a gigantic difference, however, so it's really not a slap in the face. For me, it's more of a relief - quick, in and out, and because of the level difference, big bonus.

In my experience, most of us love getting a quick 4 man trial in leveling roulette.

4-man trials on levelling roulette are lit. You have to remember how much shorter it is.

With that said, I wouldn't disagree with MSQ trials coming off the levelling roulette and being added to MSQ roulette instead, which would obviously leave the Trials roulette with additional unlockables.

a good chunk of the EXP you would normally gain would be from trash packs. The feeling of disparity is there because you do not even bother with trash packs even though the duty completion result reward is the same. I think Mathematically I think its the same if you ran the mini trials over and over again in the same span of a single dungeon. queue times not withstanding.

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Originally Posted by Zeich

I miss the days leveling roulette gave 1.5 levels... in the 70s, it's more like 1/3 - 1/2 of a level. XD

That being said, I'd have to run the numbers as well - I believe, however, that you're right in that it's less, since (if I'm remembering correctly) normally the bonus scales with difference between your level and the instance you get, and I'm not sure if it accounts for EXP from trash packs. I don't think it's a gigantic difference, however, so it's really not a slap in the face. For me, it's more of a relief - quick, in and out, and because of the level difference, big bonus.

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The difference in bonus exp is designed to account for exp gained through enemies kills. Your level 70 monk will get a considerably larger bonus chunk at the end for clearing Satasha rather than, say, Bardams Mettle.

I think the best place for these trials would be the trial roulette.

I just wish they counted as dungeons for the Challenge Log. It's annoying to be on my last one for the week, looking forward to that boost, and then get Baby Ifrit and have to do another dungeon for the Log entry.

When I get it I think 'oh sweet, quick roulette bonus.' And then I queue for something else if I need more exp.

It makes the most sense in leveling roulette.

They are leveling msq duties just like the dungeons that make up the bulk of it.

They're 4 player so throwing them into trial or msq roulette would complicate the matchmaking there. Plus, you can't throw them into msq roulette and have 1 minute trials mixed in with 40 minute cutscene fests.

While they stand out, it's really the best place to be putting them.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

You're going to feel this even harder if you bundle it into the MSQ roulette.

It's fine as-is, in my opinion.

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I don't think I would. 5 minutes work, 3 million exp, 200 tomestones. That's worth it to me.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I don't think I would. 5 minutes work, 3 million exp, 200 tomestones. That's worth it to me.

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Which is exactly why they wouldn't do it.

Not to mention - apparently people are already gaming the system and dropping out if the "wrong" MSQ roulette duty comes up. How much worse is it going to be if they could get a five-minute duty when they try again?

Putting the four-man trials in the four-man dungeon roulette makes more sense. Sometimes it's annoying to get, sometimes it's good to have a quick duty.

Just had Normal Garuda pop up last night. As dps that was a 25 minute wait for a sliver of exp on my bar. No sad face emoji can suffice to show my heartbreak

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

What if they where moved into the MSQ Roulette?

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That will never happen. The MSQ roulette is set up specifically to reward people for sitting through the cutscenes for the zillionth time and helping new players get through without ruining the experience completely. It's probably misnamed as it isn't actually MSQ roulette. Maybe they should pick a more obvious name like Netflix roulette, or Cutscene purgatory.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I don't think I would. 5 minutes work, 3 million exp, 200 tomestones. That's worth it to me.

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/laugh

You actually think those same rewards would be available just for running a 4-player trial?

Never mind the complete imbalance of cost/benefit, do you have any idea the absolute havoc that would wreak on MSQ roulette?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

In my experience, most of us love getting a quick 4 man trial in leveling roulette.

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Unless it's garuda then not really
Its a waste of bonus exp since you get same as trial roulette

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Originally Posted by Rocond

I think the best place for these trials would be the trial roulette.

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You! Get out of here. This is a video game internet complain with no real solutions because I'm talking out the side of my neck zone! Your rationale is not welcome!

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

/laugh

You actually think those same rewards would be available just for running a 4-player trial?

Never mind the complete imbalance of cost/benefit, do you have any idea the absolute havoc that would wreak on MSQ roulette?

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Yes, that's exactly what I'm proposing, give EXACTLY the same awards as the cutscene hell to the 3 "trials" and move em over.

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Originally Posted by savageink

That will never happen. The MSQ roulette is set up specifically to reward people for sitting through the cutscenes for the zillionth time and helping new players get through without ruining the experience completely. It's probably misnamed as it isn't actually MSQ roulette. Maybe they should pick a more obvious name like Netflix roulette, or Cutscene purgatory.

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It feels just as bad when the dungeon I was depending on to level me, with the huge bonus, turns out to be a 5 minute trial that's pretty much a guildhest in disguise... So why NOT put them in there, and reward people for helping new players though them?

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

It feels just as bad when the dungeon I was depending on to level me, with the huge bonus, turns out to be a 5 minute trial that's pretty much a guildhest in disguise... So why NOT put them in there, and reward people for helping new players though them?

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Because people will abuse it, and it will undermine the purpose of the roulette. People will drop out because they got Castrum/Praetorium and queue again until they get an easy trial, and it will be harder for newbies to find a party willing to stick with them.

People are more likely to want prae for minimum effort and huge exp
Only people who drop out of msq roulette these days are mentors who get in there mentor roulette

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Originally Posted by Rocond

I think the best place for these trials would be the trial roulette.

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Errrr no way man.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

When I get it I think 'oh sweet, quick roulette bonus.' And then I queue for something else if I need more exp.

It makes the most sense in leveling roulette.

They are leveling msq duties just like the dungeons that make up the bulk of it.

They're 4 player so throwing them into trial or msq roulette would complicate the matchmaking there. Plus, you can't throw them into msq roulette and have 1 minute trials mixed in with 40 minute cutscene fests.

While they stand out, it's really the best place to be putting them.

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^ This

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Unless it's garuda then not really
Its a waste of bonus exp since you get same as trial roulette

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How is it a waste of Bonus EXp - you still get the exact bonus exp than if any dng popped. You're missing out from exp from the prospective dungeon, but hey Satasha could have popped anyway.


PSA:
Make sure guys you equip your Brand New Ring if synced below level 30 and your Aetheryte Earring if synced below level 70. It works on level sync.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I don't think I would. 5 minutes work, 3 million exp, 200 tomestones. That's worth it to me.

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The bonus is scaled to whatever duty you're running and makes up the majority of your exp.

You are not going to get Main Scen Rou levels of EXP or bonuses when a content like Ifrit Story mod is in your rou. That instance alone on average takes like 3-5 minutes.

Even if you exclude it, the fact is the bonus is so high because that is very time consuming content. You can get two dungeons rous done with enough time to get halfway into another before someone gets out of Prae.

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Originally Posted by Tone19

PSA:
Make sure guys you equip your Brand New Ring if synced below level 30 and your Aetheryte Earring if synced below level 70. It works on level sync.

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Wait, what? This works?

It does. It's not a huge boost (it boosts exp from combat, not roulette bonuses), but every little bit adds up.