Were trusts intended to be usable for goetia/phantasmagoria farming?

I don't really have a problem with it being a thing but I do have a problem with the fact that unsurprisingly, people are starting to use bots to do said farming.

It particularly bugs me because of the fact unlike most forms of botting, it can easily go unnoticed due to the fact that players in instances don't show in player search; only Novice Network, linkshells, FCs, and other opt-in only types of channels.

It's not a particularly harmful avenue of exploitation given how over saturated the market is with tomestone mats due to hunt trains and the like, but's still annoying regardless.


Kindly do me a favor and disregard anything that was said in the first two pages because I wasn't being very clear about why I even thought this was a problem in the first place, and while I intended to just let the subject die, people had other ideas (WTB delete topic function).

Were trusts intended to be useful for tomestone farming?

Probably not.

Is this an issue?

Also probably not.

I mean, if someone wants to do the 80 dungeons incredibly slowly with trusts for tomes when queuing and playing with others is generally way faster, I don't really see the problem.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I mean, if someone wants to do the 80 dungeons incredibly slowly with trusts for tomes when queuing and playing with others is generally way faster, I don't really see the problem.

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Except the market for tome mats being flooded and crashing. Also in this scenario, a single bot takes up 1 instance spot. There are already problems with parties of 4 bots clogging instance servers, when they all start running solo with trusts the load will multiply by 4.

I don't think it is an issue, really. There will always be ways for bots to exploit the game and by changing the last dungeon so that People can't get tomes from them, you basically punish the people who just don't want to put up with other people while doing some slow farm runs while the bots will find other ways to make money.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

... they need to either remove the tomestone rewards when using trusts or limit how often said instances can be run with trusts because it's already being heavily exploited by botters...

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Do you mean, your solution to things used by bots, is removing from the game the used things. Really?

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It's a niche not many legitimate players are going to make much use of ...

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You don't like it, so it must be removed from the game. Ok.

I like farming tomes with actual people, how about that?

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Except the market for tome mats being flooded and crashing. Also in this scenario, a single bot takes up 1 instance spot. There are already problems with parties of 4 bots clogging instance servers, when they all start running solo with trusts the load will multiply by 4.

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sure but this implies a botter would
complete ShB story and bother to level up trust again
just to farm some goetia..

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Originally Posted by Duskane

sure but this implies a botter would
complete ShB story and bother to level up trust again
just to farm some goetia..

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They can just automate the trust NPCs to level cap over the course of a day if they feel like it.

And yes, they will manually complete the ShB story just for the sake of botting.

There's someone on my server who's brought three alt accounts through both HW and SB so far just for that purpose and is working on it for ShB now.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

They can just automate the trust NPCs to level cap over the course of a day if they feel like it.

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it would still take a hell of a long time to get it all set up
they probably rather make money else where during that time

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Except the market for tome mats being flooded and crashing.

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Imo the two more lilely reasons for that are:

- the novelty of the savage raids is gone, players doing them are now in 370 stuff instead of getting crafted one, and people not doing them are getting 360/normal Eden stuff instead because they dont care about being pentamelded ;

- you get way more tomes with A ranks ShB trains. When it takes one hundred players one hour top to kill 36 hunt targets, 2 or 3 times in a row thanks to the world visit, it makes the idea of getting tomes by boting with the trust system laughable.

Anyway the best time to make gils by reselling tomes mats have always been when they are new. The market is always crashing a bit later.

I think the prices on tomestone mats will likely increase when 5.1 drops and the new DoL/H stuff arrives.

The people I've observed doing this are doing it to avoid having to spend money on the mats as opposed to intending to profit off them, though, as they either craft themselves regularly or are related to people who do. I don't think there'll ever be enough of a shortage on the mats for trying to sell them for profit to be very worthwhile so it is pretty low impact overall, but still a bit annoying.

Yet again, this is the kind of problem that would be best resolved by the enforcement teams just being competent enough to recognize/ban offenders.

Tome mats always crash. They're crashing now because we have hunt trains that give 200 people up to 720 goetia in one go. We had 4 of these hunt trains on our datacentre only yesterday. I agree with bots being an issue, but not every price crash is bot related.

I think the bots are more focused on doing their Ampador Keep speedruns then worrying about Goetia farming.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

There's someone on my server who's brought three alt accounts through both HW and SB so far just for that purpose and is working on it for ShB now.

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You always see claim like this brought up in thread like this. If you are so sure about this, report them for botting activities.

After leveling my trust I hope to be able to get tomes for running an 80 dungeon. TY

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Except the market for tome mats being flooded and crashing. Also in this scenario, a single bot takes up 1 instance spot. There are already problems with parties of 4 bots clogging instance servers, when they all start running solo with trusts the load will multiply by 4.

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I'm looking at the MB right now and the price is exactly what I'd expect based off of past rounds of tomestone materials. If you don't like the price, petition SE to incorporate them into more useful recipes so that there's actually some reason for people to buy the items they make aside from Savage raiders rounding out their gear very early on.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

After leveling my trust I hope to be able to get tomes for running an 80 dungeon. TY

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It's not worth it unless you want to get the shoebill minion without any competition, IMO.

A hunt train is a lot more lucrative as you're getting both types of tomestones and materia out of it in less time and a busy server will have multiple daily. The post maintenance S rank waves are even better.

Even after instances are gone hunts will still be the most efficient method of getting tomestones in terms of how much you earn for the time spent.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

You always see claim like this brought up in thread like this. If you are so sure about this, report them for botting activities.

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Oh, believe me, I did. Several times. Both the main account (Who also bots regularly) and his alts since the HW days, but all of them are still around.

The alts have traditionally been used almost entirely for scrip farming and mostly seem to exist to just give the main account (And likely associates) an endless supply of DoL/H materia. The fact that they're also being used to horde large houses makes me feel like something scummier might be going on, though...

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Except the market for tome mats being flooded and crashing.

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Who cares?

This feels too innocuous to get upset about. The amount of people who would abuse the system is so miniscule that punishing them would also punish far more people using Trusts as a legitimate way to have fun and gear up. SE has also said that future dungeons will continue to allow Trusts as options when going through the MSQ, so again, I think punishing people exploiting this would do far more harm than good.

Truthfully, I don't mind people exploiting it anyway. How to gears and their mats should be reasonably priced regardless of any botting, and if this is a way to enforce that, I'm fine with it. Ultimately there's just no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

I suppose all it really does mean is that a few individuals per server are just going to not need to be buying tomestone mats from the market board, which has little influence on the economy at all.

I was mostly feeling annoyed about regularly seeing people involved in such behavior but will likely never actually be punished. The logical way to handle a small amount of offenders is to deal with it in a case-by-case manner...though not even that happens with regularity in XIV.

Now, if the RMTers decided to start enacting mass farming operations like they do in the ARR areas, then THAT might require more drastic measures.

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Originally Posted by Raltar

Who cares?

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Precisely

This is happening with EVERY single mat
It's not restricted to just the OPs items

Get off your high horse OP, the market isn't just yours.
All prices are crashing right now because people are done with the content and not playing anymore.

Tome mats always sell high upon release which is because people are using the tomes for gear for their roles. Once geared what is one to do with them? Like me I'm sure they'll sell them. As more and more sell them the prices will drop which is normal and expected.

If you want to make money sell them early. It's about all I sell at the moment given I don't gather/craft just yet. I'm way too busy leveling roles/taking alts through story to work about the market.

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Originally Posted by ShivaTairo

Precisely

This is happening with EVERY single mat
It's not restricted to just the OPs items

Get off your high horse OP, the market isn't just yours.
All prices are crashing right now because people are done with the content and not playing anymore.

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Way to completely miss the point of the topic.

I was originally pointing out the fact that people have started using bots to farm the level 80 MSQ dungeon for tomestones and also that the ability to do so in the first place feels like an anomaly because of said tomestones normally being restricted to group content. In the grand scheme of things, though, it's really not going to have any significant effect on the market due the vast majority of tomestone mats coming from legit players who acquire it passively from hunts, roulettes, etc.

This has absolutely nothing to do with me wanting to make a profit. I don't even sell my tomestone mats anymore because the bulk of them get bought out by our server's resident bot farmers and I have no interest supporting their practices indirectly or otherwise.

There's nothing to discuss here other how inept SE is at dealing with cheaters, really, but there's already who knows how many other topics for that. I guess some people just want to beat a dead horse.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I mean, if someone wants to do the 80 dungeons incredibly slowly with trusts for tomes when queuing and playing with others is generally way faster, I don't really see the problem.

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Srs. I get all my tomes from failing badly in PvP, is OP gonna get me banned too because I don't do it like they do?

Also the argument of "the market for tome mats is suffering" is so beyond ridiculous, stop being greedy.

I've already admitted that removing the tomestone rewards entirely is not a good solution. Something better would be adjusting the Trust AI so people can't just have their bots go on auto-pilot and follow them to avoid getting killed by the mechanics.

The notion they'd do something specifically to prevent that type of exploitation when they can't be bothered to ban botters in general was silly to begin with, though,. The thought came to me mostly because this type of cheating is extremely easy to carry out unnoticed as Player Search is unable to bring up people who are in instances, meaning the only way you can even tell someone is doing this is if they're in the Novice Network, a linkshell, or your FC where you can see their instance activity.

The catch-all fix to cheating would be to just have an enforcement team that's actually functional because the STF doesn't even exist as far as I'm concerned.

Until then, I'll just continue being pissed off seeing the same individuals habitually overnighting in Amaurot to dodge around the need to manually acquire tomestones or spend money on the market board to fuel their crafting. It's frustrating to keep seeing more and more aspects of game being abused like this, and it's all going to come to a head with the Ishgard Restoration when they start depriving legit players of ranking rewards.

As an aside, I don't know why I even bother making topics about this stuff any more. Discussion tends to shift away from the topic to people ridiculing me for daring to suggest any kind of change that could have a negative impact on actual players small as it might be.

Heck, there are people who still defend the gil drops in ARR dungeons despite them amounting to basically nothing and being the primary target of exploitation from gil farmers who use sheer numbers to compensate for the inefficiency.

This is ridiculous. Prices in mats go down like people said,as demand goes down. It's more lucrative to do multiple hunt trains back to back for tomestones too, so why are you particularly annoyed at the trust system and calling it cheating? Do you want that nerfed too? Because it's a much, much better way of getting tomestones than "botting" like you say. Besides, how do you know those people using trusts aren't just leveling up their alts? Or playing the game the way it's intended? Absolutely ridiculous. You even mention possible cheating on ranking for Ishgard restoration, which isn't even out yet. Prices will keep fluctuating in the market, and you have no control over it, you also have no control over how players choose to spend their time. These are perceived slights, and the whole extra stuff you typed about Ishgard restoration is just delusion since nothing has been announced. Even if it ends up you can combine trust system, tomestones, and ishgard together why does that bother you so much? Tomestones = digital currency

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Except the market for tome mats being flooded and crashing. Also in this scenario, a single bot takes up 1 instance spot. There are already problems with parties of 4 bots clogging instance servers, when they all start running solo with trusts the load will multiply by 4.

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The market already crashed without the bots help already.most players at this stage have no use for the tomes so undercut each other for the small bit of gil they can get off the matts.Also the reuse skill for crafters has massivly dropped the prices of crafting matts across the board which is actually the bigger issue that needs to be adressed.

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Originally Posted by shaiel

This is ridiculous. Prices in mats go down like people said,as demand goes down. It's more lucrative to do multiple hunt trains back to back for tomestones too, so why are you particularly annoyed at the trust system and calling it cheating? Do you want that nerfed too? Because it's a much, much better way of getting tomestones than "botting" like you say. Besides, how do you know those people using trusts aren't just leveling up their alts? Or playing the game the way it's intended? Absolutely ridiculous. You even mention possible cheating on ranking for Ishgard restoration, which isn't even out yet. Prices will keep fluctuating in the market, and you have no control over it, you also have no control over how players choose to spend their time. These are perceived slights, and the whole extra stuff you typed about Ishgard restoration is just delusion since nothing has been announced. Even if it ends up you can combine trust system, tomestones, and ishgard together why does that bother you so much? Tomestones = digital currency

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I just read their posts to have a good laugh at how little they know about this game tbh.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I don't really have a problem with it being a thing but I do have a problem with the fact that unsurprisingly, people are starting to use bots to do said farming.

It particularly bugs me because of the fact unlike most forms of botting, it can easily go unnoticed due to the fact that players in instances don't show in player search; only Novice Network, linkshells, FCs, and other opt-in only types of channels.

It's not a particularly harmful avenue of exploitation given how over saturated the market is with tomestone mats due to hunt trains and the like, but's still annoying regardless.


Kindly do me a favor and disregard anything that was said in the first two pages because I wasn't being very clear about why I even thought this was a problem in the first place, and while I intended to just let the subject die, people had other ideas (WTB delete topic function).

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your obsession with bots is unhealthy and I think you should find a therapist to talk to.I have never seen so much of the same thing come out of one person.

Devs please don’t take away the ability to get tomes from Trust duties, I appreciate it for days like today where I’m sick and don’t want to inconvenience people in DF and don’t want to mess with tracking down a hunt train but still be able to cap my Phantasmagoria.