Just genially asking. I m an Ilevel 450 Dancer.
Cleared E1S and E2S.
My average dps is around 9.7 to 10k.
however I got kicked out of E3S today because I was told that as Dancer my ridiculously too low. And was booted out.
So I'm genuinely asking the question to other I level dancers out there. Is my dps too low. Should it be much higher? Should it be above 11k the entire fight? If so. What do you think I m doing wrong?
I genuinely asking to figure out. If my Dps is really bad for a Dancer and I need to change something.
DNC: Dps performance
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08-13-2019, 03:14 PMBeladrim007DNC: Dps performance
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08-13-2019, 03:23 PMJanhyua
as long you do 9.8k "personal DPS" above you will be fine the rest of the dps comes from raid dps which is your standard and technical
Your raid dps is depended on your party skill if they are bad.... than yeah you get bad parse and pug in general are bad -
08-13-2019, 03:29 PMBeladrim007Well that s reassuring. But some group leaders sadly don't see it this way and kick me out because to them my dps is too low :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Janhyua
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08-13-2019, 03:35 PMJanhyuaIt show that they don't understand the idea of raid buff and how to use it properly but again it is pug after all...Quote:
Originally Posted by Beladrim007
Even in static alining raid buff does feel like too much work for little gain that even myself feel like I rather play MCH or Bard it give more room to breath, however all these problem are temporarily even without any buff to dancer in the future we will still be able to clear content on week 4 or 5 when more people get gear -
08-13-2019, 03:50 PMBeladrim007Yeah I don't know. I personally See a huge boost in overall Raid dps when I pop my Buffs on for burst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janhyua
But frankly I feel like I am getting picked on for my personal dps a bit too much for my licking. It s just very frustrating that personal DPS is the only thing they care about when it's really raid dps that matters.
9.7 or so seems fairly decent to me for what I provide and I really don't know how I can produce more.
This isn't a rotation based dps class. It's proc based. So there really isn't much I can to do. RNG will dictate my dps.
I just wish they would trow away the RNG dependency already. It did not work for BRD and it sure still doesn't work for DNC. It makes dps really inconsistent to me. My performance is really tied to procs at the end of the day. And If I get unlucky. I get punished for it.
Sometimes I ll stay close to 10.2k or 10.3k. Sometimes I will be around 9.6 or even 9.5k. Sure some of it might be on me but most of it really boils down to RNG with all the procs. -
08-13-2019, 04:42 PMPepsi_Plunge
I'm not going to judge you or anything, but your aDPS on the site-noone-should-mention are not nearly 9.7 to 10k but up to 2k less on your E1s and E2s clears, with two out of those three logs are grey while the third's just barely green. Again, not judging or anything - my own logs are nothing to write home about - but there is still a lot room of improvement [for example, by just looking at your last log you missed two "Double Standard Finish" which is an potency lost of 1000 each and got one "Single Technical Finish" instead of a Quadruple which is an potency lost of 750].
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08-13-2019, 05:25 PMBeladrim007I was looking at Rdps but what s the difference between Rdps and Adps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge
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08-13-2019, 05:41 PMJowyAtreidesSounds like this should have been a question directed at the party leader.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beladrim007
It also looks like they've used parse/log data to restrict you access to the content, isn't this a subject area the developers frown upon?
I love the PS4 non-parse life every time I read one of these threads.
I hope you get the answers you need though -
08-13-2019, 05:51 PMNeelathing is... there might still be parses from you on- & offline - I thought the same for a while "idc cause im on ps4" but be aware that people in pugs also use act and are pretty well aware about "your" performance. u can still disable your char on fflogs but than again people will start ignoring you in these discussions - cause noone who stands to his performance would disable the loggs to talk about everyone else numbers but not their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by JowyAtreides
the whole tool is the cancer... good for theorycrafters bad for everyone who defines or judges people with the outcome - an outcome most of them don't understand at all and that is causing all these flat "arguments" why or why not jobs/player will be kicked or locked out in the first place.
@topic:
coming to the forum saying:
while a simple look at your logs shows:Quote:
"I got kicked with 9.7 to 10k dps....?"
is like... yeah I saw numbers... but I dont understand them... – people on fflogs dig deep... so if u use parses for argumentation u have to understand them first - people can see way more than just your numbers they can see everything from your firstskill to your last skill... they can rebuild your rotation and compare it with the "given" one by the community. they can see uptime and when and how often you used certain skills. all factors to judge if your welcome or not... and most important they can see if u tell the truth.Quote:
but your aDPS are not nearly 9.7 to 10k but up to 2k less on your E1s and E2s clears, with two out of those three logs are grey while the third's just barely green. you missed two "Double Standard Finish" which is an potency lost of 1000 each and got one "Single Technical Finish" instead of a Quadruple which is an potency lost of 750.
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08-13-2019, 06:00 PMHyoMinParkThe RNG component BRD has (because it still has it) works just fine? It’s always had an RNG component to it even before 4.0 and Repertoire because of River of Blood and Bloodletter/Rain of Death resets. This has never hurt the job in any way to make them unwanted: conversely, they’re usually the more in-demand of the physical ranged (minus the early days of bowmage). Currently, BRD has a flat 40% Repertoire, which doesn’t hurt its damage as much as one would think. It has fairly consistent damage. In 4.x, it could snapshot critical hit enhancing buffs and push its RNG even higher (to 60+% in Alphascape with both Battle Litany and Chain Stratagem snapshotted) to the point that it was honestly a bit overpowered. BRD suffered from a lot of power creep in SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beladrim007
BRD is the more reliable physical ranged (even with its RNG) compared to DNC simply because its pDPS and rDPS do not hinge upon a Dance Partner—if you have a suboptimal Dance Partner on DNC, your personal damage will suffer (from hurt in your Esprit gain), and your rDPS will suffer (because you’re buffing a weak link, meaning you’re contributing less in rDPS overall).
DNC’s RNG is hardly what’s hurting its pDPS right now—more so its potencies are simply too low. It’s the lowest DPS in terms of both aDPS and rDPS, being beat by RDM and NIN, two jobs that are dealing with a very heavily utility tax right now.
As for producing more damage, are you saving things like Esprit and Feathers for burst windows? Ideally, you shouldn’t use Saber Dance until 80 Esprit, and you should hold at least 3 Fourfold Feathers for upcoming burst windows (usually Technical Finish windows, but also other buff windows such as Trick Attack as well as potion windows). You should not spend feathers as you get them, as they will be more impactful under +% damage buffs compared to outside of them. Make sure you use Standard Finish on cooldown (so every 30 seconds)—I see a lot of DNCs that use it closer to every 60s, but that’s an almost 400 potency attack you’re losing by delaying it (it’s not a straight 1,000 potency because of the time it takes to set it up—roughly 5s, in which you cannot use any other attacks). Also make sure to use Flourish on cooldown, and to do your absolute best to not overwrite any Flourished procs, as those will also result in lost potency. You should be using your two AOE Flourished skills (Rising Windmill and Bloodshower) when you use Flourish, as they are free damage.
In addition to potential rotational issues, are you also using food and/or potting? Easiest way to up your damage is to use Tinctures.
rDPS = (damage you deal) + (buffs you give to the raid) - (buffs taken from other raid buffs).Quote:
Originally Posted by Beladrim007
aDPS = straight damage with no influence from any raid buffs. -
08-13-2019, 06:01 PMJowyAtreidesI have no doubt and I have indeed ventured onto one of the sites and seen I've been in the odd party every now and again who was using it. That being said, I don't use it myself, I don't judge myself on it, I don't judge others on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neela
Maybe my opinion would be different if I did savage content while it is still relevant (I'm usually a patch arc behind, or not at all), but as you say, the whole tool is indeed cancer, for the entire reason of this thread :( -
08-13-2019, 06:05 PMPepsi_PlungerDPS measures your entire party damage (for example, the rDPS may be much higher if everyone is keeping their CDs for the trick attack of NIN and fires everything of in this time-window, even if this leads to an dmg-loss overall and extends the kill-time), while aDPS measures your own damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beladrim007
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08-13-2019, 06:41 PMPepsi_PlungeWell, it depends on what you are doing with it. The thing is, if you never look at the numbers you can't see what you're missing. You may think you're doing just fine because you get your clear and all but you never know how your performance really was until you look it up. And that is also the only way you can improve by checking what you are doing wrong or what you could do better.Quote:
Originally Posted by JowyAtreides
True, people may also look at those numbers and may kick you out of a group. Especially in content like brand new Savage stages at minimum item-level, where DPS is a real issue and even if you do all the mechanics correctly and noone dies you may still see the enrage if the DPS is not high enough. -
08-13-2019, 09:26 PMNeelathis ^Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge
we replaced 2 DDs this tier - 2 veteran left and 2 Leafs which never were in savage or ex-primals before joined. 1st week they got used to the speed of encounter and fix positions/mechanics. 2nd week mechanics were clear but we couldn't pass the enrage with our 450 blue gear sets. Week 3 we organized crafted gear parts with overmelts, the usage of lvl8 materia and pots. We were able to clear it super close to enrage. Sure uptime & rotations are far from maximum but sometimes it is indeed the gear which make a difference - our Brd f.e did roughly 1k more just by gear & pots. Although at the same time everybody knows its the easiest excuse to take if u lack in other areas... -
08-13-2019, 10:01 PMMaero
DNC also has RNG to it so not sure why people are calling others out when they cannot even grasp the concept of RNG?
I do not think you can measure 100% with accuracy when their is RNG tied to damage, player A could have great luck and hit 10K while player B real bad luck and hit 8K as example
My first Titania EX runs (and i did die a few times) was close to 10K with the Ronkan weapon
Also FFlogs must have been hit because those parse are now gone from the site as are parses from people i know which have cleared all of the Ultima and Savage tiers last expansion -
08-13-2019, 10:05 PMHyoMinParkBecause the RNG is not substantial enough to be a 2,000 DPS difference between good RNG and bad RNG. Usually when people are having issues with their personal damage, it comes from suboptimal use of their tools (e.g., not properly using Flourish/Flourished procs, overwriting procs, not properly storing their Feathers for burst, not using Standard Finish on CD, etc.).Quote:
Originally Posted by Maero
No, they’re still there. Go up to the tabs and click on “Standard Comps” — you’ll want to select “Pre-Savage”. This was added due to the shift in the site showing rDPS over pDPS. As for previous tiers, there’s a dropdown on the right-hand side: where it says “Eden’s Gate”, click on that and you’ll see both Stormblood and Heavensward under there, with all applicable tiers.Quote:
Also FFlogs must have been hit because those parse are now gone from the site as are parses from people i know which have cleared all of the Ultima and Savage tiers last expansion
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08-14-2019, 12:59 AMBeladrim007Thanks for the advice. That's really all I asked.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
Reading this. I can say that I was doing everything you suggested aside from one thing. And that is: Saving Feathers and Esprit for Burst windows.
That might have made a huge difference.
I also don't use pots all the time because I well.... It can get expensive. But I do food always. -
08-14-2019, 01:07 AMAbelArchaniEA
One you can report them for kicking based on third party parsing. Two that is an lame excuse in order to divert the real issue which is probably the fight mechanics. Enjoy playing your job and tell them to take a hike.
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08-14-2019, 03:13 AMKabooa
There is a helpful site to use in conjunction with the site that shall not be named. While it is not perfect (as it does not account for individual mechanic hiccups that might change what you can / cannot do) it is a helpful starting point to recognizing where you do muss up.
Just google xiv analysis. -
08-14-2019, 03:19 AMLina_SlayerSmall nitpick, but aDPS is not the same thing as personal damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
From that friendly site we all know about:
aDPS stands for "adjusted DPS", and it is measuring how much damage you did with only single target padding removed. AOE padding is still allowed. The formula for it is:
aDPS = DPS - (damage gained from others' single target external buffs)
The buffs removed by this metric include Devilment / Standard Finish, Astrologian cards, and Left Eye. -
08-14-2019, 06:11 PMDogempire
You're doing fine, anything around 10k on that site which must not be named is really good (Aka more than 9.5k), and anything above 10k on that application which must not be named is really good.
You're a support dps, not a selfish dps, so naturally it won't be good compared to dps whose only purpose is to hit things hard.
Dancer is around 1.5k less personal dps than an equally geared and equally skilled machinist, though I'm not sure about bard. -
08-14-2019, 06:26 PMDogempireI wouldn't say it makes a huge difference, but it is what separates the good dancers from the really good ones, and the purple parses from the orange ones, just be careful not to overcap on feathers and esprit (Using saber at 80 esprit and feathers at 3 to avoid overcap is generally a good rule, exception being if your technical step is really close to being up)Quote:
Originally Posted by Beladrim007
That being said if not timing your burst with your buffs is the only thing you're doing wrong, then I doubt your dps was an issue. -
08-14-2019, 07:00 PMPepsi_PlungeSorry, but that's not really correct. Green Parsing for Dancer on E3S - the content the OP was kicked out - starts at 11,1k on rDPS or 9,6k aDPS (probably higher by now)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogempire
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08-14-2019, 09:35 PMNeelayeah and this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge
is what I said before - most people just dont understand the numbers in generell. aside of the fact that OP isn't at those said numbers anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogempire
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08-14-2019, 09:49 PMHyoMinParkPushing as much as possible into burst windows will make a difference, so do try that in the future. Also take care not to let your procs drop. I did peek at any logs you might have had, and one had you missing 6 of your AOE Flourished procs (I believe it was 2 Rising Windmills and 4 Bloodshower were missed out of your uses of Flourish). You can prioritize them over Reverse Cascade and Fountainfall if you will have to move out of range for mechanics, so don't hesitate to shift the priority if mechanics call for it. Also take care with your steps: you had an instance of a Single Technical Finish, which is a huge potency loss for yourself and a DPS loss for the raid. There were some dances that had more than the required number of steps. That just takes a bit more paying attention, so it's a relatively easy fix. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Beladrim007
For food, you can use either Espresso Con Panna or the Robe Lettuce Salad. Both are excellent. If you can't afford Grade 2 Tinctures, check the prices of Grade 1 Tinctures. There is a difference, but it will still help push your damage in the opener and subsequent potion windows. E2S can have a tight DPS check in Party Finder, so it would be worth it to get some Tinctures just to help mitigate that. But remember that the party clearing shouldn't ride solely on you. If you get a bad PUG, unfortunately there isn't much you can do about the performance of others. That said, doing what you can to improve your own will leave you walking away feeling as if you did well, so there is that.