Suggestion 3: Future-proof content by capping at least instanced fights and dungeons.

I would really like to hear the opinion of the community about this one. Am I the only one that thinks that the game at large, its environment, the feel of challenge and reward, and the community's spirit of competitiveness would all benefit from capped instances?

For those that don't know the concept: Capped fights, instances, or dungeons impose a level restriction on the player, corresponding to the level cap for which the dungeon's difficulty level was designed. In other words, if the player is a level-45 GLA entering a dungeon made for level-25 players, upon entrance his or her level would automatically be set to the fight cap: Level 25. Restricted-level gear would remain equipped, but it will automatically scale its stats down to equivalently-tiered gear at the corresponding level.

In this manner a player would never be able to beat such a fight by sheer level strength, or overqualified stats; keeping such content fixed at the intended level, skill would always be the point of the fight.

What do you think about this?

I'd rather have another 45 dungeon instead a level restriction on those two low level dungeons I've only done once for the achievement.

While it sounds nice on paper people will move past these dungeons regardless of if they're still "Skill-based" or not. People leveling up will be more likely to not experience it with the cap [and I say this because over time, as game's mature, people are less likely to go back and do that kind of content again] than experiencing it without a cap [because someone might take the time to carry them].

You have to decide which way you want to err, but a modern game design standpoint would err on letting people experience the content; even if they don't contribute.

I think if a person wants to go into a dungeon over the recommended level, they should be able to. Doesn't hurt anyone else. Why do I care if someone else facerolls over low level content?

10000000% agree on capped content, both dungeons and job boss instanced fights.

People complained how easy the job quests were, well try them at the appropriate level and see how easy they are then.

Toto-rak would be a great little instance if players were restricted to no more than lvl 30.

Absolutely, I think it would have made artifact fights a bit more savorable. things like CoP in FFXI were capped instances and it made it alot more enjoyable and tough.

If they make content in the dungeons worthwhile.

Example: BCNM 30: Peacock charm good until 75 <= keep it capped because it is never negated

Example: Dungeon 30: Drops gear that is good until 50 but 1 level increase will 100% negate it <= do not cap it because the dungeon is a waste of time doing anyways.

I say cap the dungeon and make it where some of the gear is never negated. That way the content piles up.

This came up some time ago in a thread i created about content difficulty. End result of a coupe of hundred posts was a concensus that there are a few simple changes that could be made to make the game more entertaining and challenging; this being one of them.

take a look at the thread summary:

A task's "difficulty" is a subjective, and debatable thing. It is far from simple define and easy to exclude other people's views when doing so.

In addition to the suggestions above, valid points have been made by people who do not want to see casual gamers excluded from any content. This is ...you know, fine. Ok, I get that. But the whole game cannot be tailored to those demanding shortcuts from to finish. The term "instant gratification" has been tossed around in this thread and I think its been used well. As has a referrence to the community's [outward] "console gamer" attitude. I believe it was SniperWolf who made the comment that casual gamers are not excluded from content because it is technically challenging, its just, naturally, takes a longer period of time for them to get the hang of a single aspect, due to inherently lower playtimes. If anyting, I would take this one step further and speculate that if "Next-Tier Dungeons" [name tentative ] for example were encorperated, especially later on when patches are becoming more content related then they are currently, casual gamers would find themselves with an ample supply of new and unexplored content to play with. The more serious players may be farming the rewards while the casual community are just finishing their completion runs, when a new event comes out. I understand now is too early to discuss breadth of content; its just hypothetical.

I believe the way to keep the majority of people happy would be maintain the technical challenge of current content, while reducing our access to it. I think the introduction of 'capping' instances, al la "promyviron-holla" style, would ensure that content already in existance maintains its unique challenge [at whatever level] throughout the entire lifespan of FFXIV. Furthermore, this could be used to sate some discussion in other threads about "Toto-Rak is actually fun if you do it at level 25". A rule of thumb could be introduced whereby the level requirement for entry is 5 levels below the gear rewarded at the end, and the level cap should allow for the equipping of said rewards, but nothing higher. Currently, the definition already exists with regards to Sargas et al. dropping rank 30 equipment in the Maws, for example. This mechanic could even be applied to further content, such as Caravan Escort Missions, Level-Related Main Scenerio Missions, and any other example of a "Duty Commenced." I'm not in any way saying it should be implemented across the board, but for the sake of consistancy the potential would be the to utilise the "Level-Cap" mechanic where ever The Dev Team feel it applicable.

Earlier, someone mentioned about the complaints concerning item drop rates and made a great point about it being related to the fact that we currently have virtually unlimited access to everything at the moment. I believe the general consensus (spelling? i'm sorry, idk) here is in agreement that drop-rates and alterations to loot-systems should be accompanied by a reduction in this access.

Item Drops from bosses too came up, with the old system of incorperating crafting materials into their treasure pools a popular option. Especially when considered with the vision of maintaining crafting classes' current niche within the overall game structure.

All said and much more, actually. If anyone would want to help me construct some form of feedback thread using the previous 12 pages or so, feel free to contact me through these forums, or this thread. Likewise, if any further suggestions from either side spring to mind please keep posting them. More responces means a more accurate summary of the community's view on the subject.

Thanks to everyone for the contributions so far.

(original thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-PLEASE/page12 - worth a browse, some good suggestions and comments.)

I'm totally prepared to have many rocks thrown at me for saying this, but! I LOVE CAPPED AREAS! provided they are not crucial areas. while i love crucial areas that are capped i can think back to the hell that CoP caused in FFXI, and how until they uncapped those areas people never touched them cuz they were "too hard". while i like it, others hated it, and i would hate to see content that people might end up loathing like they did in the past of far-far away land.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I think if a person wants to go into a dungeon over the recommended level, they should be able to. Doesn't hurt anyone else. Why do I care if someone else facerolls over low level content?

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A cap is not a prohibition. It's just a feature that preserves the same level of challenge permanently. It's more fun that way, the supporters of this system ascertain.

Nobody has claimed that the absence of a cap hurts anybody. We're just talking of improving the overall level of challenge and the viability of content. Everybody that can get in once, can continue doing so. Furthermore, the conditions of that first time will be preserved in perpetuity, so that the experience is likely to keep its luster longer.

I think caps shouldn't exist ever. I don't see how capping stuff "future proofs" it. Old stuff SHOULD be easier after surpassing what it was designed for. Otherwise getting stronger loses its luster and its point.

Level caps suck, they're always bad, and I don't want the game to have them, anywhere, ever.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

10000000% agree on capped content, both dungeons and job boss instanced fights.

People complained how easy the job quests were, well try them at the appropriate level and see how easy they are then.

Toto-rak would be a great little instance if players were restricted to no more than lvl 30.

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Guess you could always give the option to cap versus not - then both types of players are satisfied.

I would have no problem with the implementation of optional level caps. It would allow higher level players to scale down with their lower level friends and do the content with not only the challenge of it being at level, but the player at level for the dungeon would be able to receive EXP as well.

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

Guess you could always give the option to cap versus not - then both types of players are satisfied.

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True enough but lets be honest unless you are forced to do content with a cap the majority of time you aren't going to.

Having capped content leaves that in the developers hands, for example Ifrit easy mode, you just need to throw 1 level 50 at it and its less than 30 seconds. (where is the felling of accomplishment ?)

How are low level players supposed to learn group tactics if all they have to do is rely on a lvl 50 to one shot everything for them.

I do not want capped dungeons at all. I had no interest really in Toto Rak and the only reason I am doing it now is for Seals and Achievements. I dont want the challenge, and I dont want to spend an hour in there just to get some seals and an Achievement.

So I am not in favor of this, it is the reason COP was quite a diaster for a long time as people couldnt help in the fight or would have to buy low level gear all the time, up until Level Sync, and while you could say "Oh stats could scale", right now in XI some dont scale, they're completely removed (Evasion Skill, Magic Attack Bonus), in XIV the scaling system for optimal gear is absolutely rubbish. I can be level 40, equip a lv 50 piece and will get the defense like im wearing a level 10 piece, its sooo bad. So No I am not at all happy about that.

A choice for capping or not, sure wouldnt mind, though I think honestly just having a "Level Difficulty" would be much better and far more easier, so you could make low level Dungeons higher by increasing the level of it. I think they are already doing this though.

The gear used to scale much better in FFXIV before they reformed it. (and when i say better I mean perfectly)

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

Guess you could always give the option to cap versus not - then both types of players are satisfied.

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However, you then get the group of players that are always: "Why should we cap it when we can blow through straight to the boss uncapped?"

Look at what happened with Assault in FFXI, you had the option to cap it at 50,60,70, or 75, no one ever capped it and left it at uncapped. "Both sides" won't be happy because those who would want to have it capped with be guaranteed to always end up in a party with at least 90% who want it uncapped.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I think caps shouldn't exist ever. I don't see how capping stuff "future proofs" it. Old stuff SHOULD be easier after surpassing what it was designed for. Otherwise getting stronger loses its luster and its point.

Level caps suck, they're always bad, and I don't want the game to have them, anywhere, ever.

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I agree with this, and I'll like to add we're getting level sync in the future.

What the dev can to do is scale the difficulty based on player numbers and level without making a level cap.

Also what I don't understand is that some people think the AF quest is to easy when they all went through them as lv50 without looking at a Lv30 perspective of a new player.

I think SE mentioned adding caps eventually, didn't they?

Instead of caps, why not make level 99+ versions of the current (and upcoming) content? Imagine Toto-Rak for a level 99 light party >)

i'd love caped dungeons and all content for that matter. also to add quests, even side quests and of course missions. seriously!!

anything caped just means your doing it at the level it was made for, weather it is for solo or for party play don't matter give us battles worth doing, no more one shotting things in 5second and done. even if it's just normal mobs so what take 5mins instead to kill them, give us the chance to wipe and die on everything ...it's a frigin game. were supposed to struggle and die and take our time. and mmo's are supposed to have a life expectancy longer then a offline game. fact many offline games since we pay monthly for it.

i personally think all mobs should cap us, not even a joke. if you hit a rank 1 mob at rank 50 you sync down to rank 1. want to farm a mob your doing it at the levels it is ment to be. just allign reward to equat to this. and i'd be very very happy. i said this in another thread b4 but almost all of ffxi's side bosses were awesome, but mostly all done at rank 75 ..if you played it and thought about some of those battles you'd be like wow this would of been a epic fight if i was a correct level for it. caps aren't limiting, just means your doing it correctly from the eyes of the devs and how it should of been. now they can just make bosses and fights that all work the same cause no one does them right anyway, why waist the resources right?

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Originally Posted by Antanias

Instead of caps, why not make level 99+ versions of the current (and upcoming) content? Imagine Toto-Rak for a level 99 light party >)

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Hyper modes are the way to go, it doesnt have that negative connatation a level cap has, and keeps content somewhat fresh.

Change the mobs, bosses and treasure. A new * difficulty every 10 levels would be welcome. Add GC leves as part of dungeon runs (e.g. "Traverse Totorak and defeat Antares") rewarding seals based on level difficulty.

Even changing the dungeon style for different modes, e.g. Totorak at the current level is get to Antares and kill it. If a Hyper Mode was the other way around it would be more engaging, e.g. Antares is chasing the party, keep her at bay while clearing all the mobs and find your way out pronto!

We're getting level sync anyway, just cap your party if you/a friend are on a level-appropriate class/job. We should be able to roll through these at high levels if we so desire, we just don't currently have the option to limit ourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL3NsX-hdWg

lol can you imagine fights like this being done at appropriate levels. would be way more fun and exciting.
as for just doing it with your friends for the heck of it, i dont' think you have played mmo's b4, no one really does that and if they do i'm not one of them. i also don't play hide and seek in uldah.

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Originally Posted by Rutelor

A cap is not a prohibition. It's just a feature that preserves the same level of challenge permanently. It's more fun that way, the supporters of this system ascertain.

Nobody has claimed that the absence of a cap hurts anybody. We're just talking of improving the overall level of challenge and the viability of content. Everybody that can get in once, can continue doing so. Furthermore, the conditions of that first time will be preserved in perpetuity, so that the experience is likely to keep its luster longer.

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the problem with this line of thinking is that you think people run the low level dungeons for fun. the majority of people don't run the low level dungeons for fun. most people only run the dungeon for achievements or gear. if you are a r50 you do not care about the r15-30 gear in those dungeons.

if they were level capped i'd still only run those low level dungeons one time and that's just for the completion so it would not extend the life of that content for me one second.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

10000000% agree on capped content, both dungeons and job boss instanced fights.

People complained how easy the job quests were, well try them at the appropriate level and see how easy they are then.

Toto-rak would be a great little instance if players were restricted to no more than lvl 30.

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oh so your saying anyone that was 50 should have to reroll to get his job? really now...really.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

oh so your saying anyone that was 50 should have to reroll to get his job? really now...really.

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What ? did i say that... did i ?

We had a huge thread about this in the past.

And I have the same opinion. A scaling cap (and a system to scale the gear you wear for the instance) would be a great feature to keep old content interesting and to help community/new players (going into lower rank dungeons to fight with lower level friends for xp, drops and/or seals).

Just remembered there was a French dev post saying:

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Developers are working on "hard" versions of Toto-Rak and Ifrit fight (harder than the current level 50 one) for version 2.0. Rewards will also be more powerful.

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In response to the OP, I don't think we should have hard capped areas. But for the sake of new people, it might be a good idea to have instances cap to the lowest level person in your party.

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Originally Posted by weeble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL3NsX-hdWg

lol can you imagine fights like this being done at appropriate levels. would be way more fun and exciting.
as for just doing it with your friends for the heck of it, i dont' think you have played mmo's b4, no one really does that and if they do i'm not one of them. i also don't play hide and seek in uldah.

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Im sorry you have no friends lol.

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

Im sorry you have no friends lol.

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i'm glad you realize we are not friends. i'll still give you a cookie for figuring it out.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llw0wsY3ER1qb3lkm.png

Bumping this, because this would be a way to PLAY AND LEVEL WITH YOUR LOW LEVEL FRIENDS!

Can of worms~~

Chains of Promathia called, and wanted to inform you that the larger population of the community in FFXI didn't enjoy or even bother with the majority of the level capped content in that expansion.

Personally I enjoyed doing CoP with the caps and stuff....however, after going through it in another game (XI), I can say I wouldn't appreciate seeing it here. I don't really wanna have to hoard tons of low level gear for jobs I may be needed on in said capped instances/missions/events/whatever.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

What ? did i say that... did i ?

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Thinking back on your comment I guess it would depend on whether capped content scaled back your level but your talking about a lot of development time for something that just isn't needed. I would totally go for it if say the focus of the game wasn't on high level content, but it is so seems like a waist to me.

The idea of creating multiple levels of the instanced dungeons and battles seems to be better alternative to the capped areas approach. After all, Toto-Rak, DD, Ifrit won't become obsolete if they keep making harder versions of them with more powerful rewards as the cap raises.

Level cap in FFXI was a real pain until they introduced the gear power scaling. Even then, most people didn't bother with them.

Granted, I wouldn't be opposed to a capped dungeon in FFXIV, but I would rather it existed as a (thematic) exception rather than a rule.

Also, aside from level capped dungeon, what about special-rule dungeons along the lines of FFIV's magnetic cave or FFVI Tower of Zozo?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Toto-rak would be a great little instance if players were restricted to no more than lvl 30.

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So would Darkhold!! imagine every fight being your last!....then again, some people can't even kill ogre :(

Definitely want a level cap on lower leveled content. Yeah, a lot of people have good points about it not really mattering whether it's capped or not because those dungeons aren't important to people.

Think about it this way though. That level 30 Ifrit Fight? That's an important fight, what if we were capped at 30 for it. Meaning to progress to the Ifrit (and other primal fights) you had to get a group of people skilled enough to get you there first. This makes the lower level primal fight more fun, notorious and important. This also creates a journey to get to the primals rather than simply searching for a party then killing them in ten minutes for some drops. I relate this to the storyline missions in XI. We have nothing like that in this game. A train of difficult missions that people do together simply for the sake of GETTING to the endgame stuff.

Also speaking of FFXI, remember BCNMs? A tough fight that could be capped at lower levels but drop gear relevant for high leveled classes. The gear doesn't become abundant because it's a hard fight and demands a different skill set then your average max level group.

As for things like toto-rak? Maybe that might be less popular, not that it's very popular now. If they ever fixed leveling to actually take time (which I believe he has told us is the plan for 2.0), having the best gear for your level 30 while leveling up might be a worthy and respectable goal making that dungeon a target for any of those players looking for a challenge that might make them look that much better among the rest.