Request: More challanging / difficult content. PLEASE

[Mikita]

people will always find stuff easy or hard based on their skill
and people at the top end of the mmo games will always find content too easy no matter how hard you make it, thats just pure fact

I think this is so true.
The best players will always figure out a strategy to defeat the new challenge very quickly.

But developers cannot make fights so difficult that -only- the players with the most skill will defeat them -- because then they will frustrate the majority of 'average' players who are doing their best, but may simply not be that good at games.


I also suspect that many people today cheat themselves out of the challenge and therefore the fun of new content.

Youtube videos and the proliferation of How To guides.
Why not avoid these completely if you want the challenge for yourself?

How much longer would people be able to enjoy new content if they don't intentionally go looking for all the tips and tricks to beat it as quickly as possible?

So in closing:
1) add cooldowns on re-entry
2) raise drop rates only if condition 1 is met
3) make dungeons actualy dungeons you have to complete, not just a bunch of mobs to skip to fight a boss
4) more content that isnt boss only in general(darkhold for instance, but with the need to actualy fight stuff inside it)
5) crafting drops from bosses in addition to the actual gear drops!

+5!

[SniperRifle]

Difficulty actually brings up another problem. When a content is too difficult, it requires times and gears to clear. This is not a problem for hardcore players, but what about casual players? should they just stay in town wearing crafting gears ?
why should casual player sit out from difficult content? After all, casual players pay same amount of monthly fee as hardcore players.

The thing is, with trial and error, casuals will eventually be at the same skill level as hardcore players, just at a slower speed because they don't play the game at the same speed/momentum as hardcore players. This means that the game can continue to get more difficult, but by the time the casuals get to, say, the final God in Sky... The hardcore players will already be focusing on CoP content (the next expansion). Both types of players play the game, and those who play more and are better, will get rewards faster. If casuals care enough about rewards in a video game as hardcore players do, they can simpley put in the time and effort to obtain the same rewards.

Some of the issues w/ 14 is, if you didn't have LNC to 50 for Ifrit, or ARC 50 for Moogle or Dzemael, then the fight was more difficult. This has to do with class balance, and any casuals who didn't have multiple classes at 50 would be playing under a handicap. Poor class balance resulted in corrupting the judgement of the community on what type of content we should have. The current fights are fine like you said, it's just they can continue to get harder and require better gear.

[JackDaniels]

I think this is so true.
The best players will always figure out a strategy to defeat the new challenge very quickly.

But developers cannot make fights so difficult that -only- the players with the most skill will defeat them -- because then they will frustrate the majority of 'average' players who are doing their best, but may simply not be that good at games.


I also suspect that many people today cheat themselves out of the challenge and therefore the fun of new content.

Youtube videos and the proliferation of How To guides.
Why not avoid these completely if you want the challenge for yourself?

How much longer would people be able to enjoy new content if they don't intentionally go looking for all the tips and tricks to beat it as quickly as possible?

Very well said. The same goes to the people who exploted the PL system and say things like 'rested exp is not neccessary' and 'leveling is too easy'. The people crying about lack of things to do and lack of difficulty a)play way too much and need other hobbies in their life b) would never be able to get 100% completion in any ff game without a bradygames manual.

[AndySolace]

So in closing:

1) add cooldowns on re-entry
2) raise drop rates only if condition 1 is met
3) make dungeons actualy dungeons you have to complete, not just a bunch of mobs to skip to fight a boss
4) more content that isnt boss only in general(darkhold for instance, but with the need to actualy fight stuff inside it)
5) crafting drops from bosses in addition to the actual gear drops!

This is, in my opinion, a really good synopsis of ideas that have been thrown about over the last pages.

I would actually like to use these posts, and points from both sides of the coin, to create an official feedback thread on the subject.

A task's "difficulty" is a subjective, and debatable thing. It is far from simple define and easy to exclude other people's views when doing so.

In addition to the suggestions above, valid points have been made by people who do not want to see casual gamers excluded from any content. This is ...you know, fine. Ok, I get that. But the whole game cannot be tailored to those demanding shortcuts from to finish. The term "instant gratification" has been tossed around in this thread and I think its been used well. As has a referrence to the community's [outward] "console gamer" attitude. I believe it was SniperWolf who made the comment that casual gamers are not excluded from content because it is technically challenging, its just, naturally, takes a longer period of time for them to get the hang of a single aspect, due to inherently lower playtimes. If anyting, I would take this one step further and speculate that if "Next-Tier Dungeons" [name tentative ] for example were encorperated, especially later on when patches are becoming more content related then they are currently, casual gamers would find themselves with an ample supply of new and unexplored content to play with. The more serious players may be farming the rewards while the casual community are just finishing their completion runs, when a new event comes out. I understand now is too early to discuss breadth of content; its just hypothetical.

I believe the way to keep the majority of people happy would be maintain the technical challenge of current content, while reducing our access to it. I think the introduction of 'capping' instances, al la "promyviron-holla" style, would ensure that content already in existance maintains its unique challenge [at whatever level] throughout the entire lifespan of FFXIV. Furthermore, this could be used to sate some discussion in other threads about "Toto-Rak is actually fun if you do it at level 25". A rule of thumb could be introduced whereby the level requirement for entry is 5 levels below the gear rewarded at the end, and the level cap should allow for the equipping of said rewards, but nothing higher. Currently, the definition already exists with regards to Sargas et al. dropping rank 30 equipment in the Maws, for example. This mechanic could even be applied to further content, such as Caravan Escort Missions, Level-Related Main Scenerio Missions, and any other example of a "Duty Commenced." I'm not in any way saying it should be implemented across the board, but for the sake of consistancy the potential would be the to utilise the "Level-Cap" mechanic where ever The Dev Team feel it applicable.

Earlier, someone mentioned about the complaints concerning item drop rates and made a great point about it being related to the fact that we currently have virtually unlimited access to everything at the moment. I believe the general consensus (spelling? i'm sorry, idk) here is in agreement that drop-rates and alterations to loot-systems should be accompanied by a reduction in this access.

Item Drops from bosses too came up, with the old system of incorperating crafting materials into their treasure pools a popular option. Especially when considered with the vision of maintaining crafting classes' current niche within the overall game structure.

All said and much more, actually. If anyone would want to help me construct some form of feedback thread using the previous 12 pages or so, feel free to contact me through these forums, or this thread. Likewise, if any further suggestions from either side spring to mind please keep posting them. More responces means a more accurate summary of the community's view on the subject.

Thanks to everyone for the contributions so far.

[Shian]

Any content made difficult i.e Not requiring a dice roll but actual skill and not your ability to hold your breath hoping to god that something drops (not Dark Matter pun intended and also not intended) is fine by me.

Seriously.

Tired of having this on and off relationship with Final Fantasy XIV where I log in for a new patch, only to finish it within 2 weeks.