Please don't overbuff Astrologian

If your solution to bring players over to Astrologian is to buff it; please, just don't.

All it will do is push WHM out again, pulling over players that want to play WHM and not even appease the main issue actual Astrologians have with the job.

Spend that energy actually making Astrologians happy, and people who want to play the job will play it because of intrinsic joy, not extrinsic efficiency; even if the numbers aren't quite on par with the others.

At this point, both of those go hand in hand. AST is neither effective nor overly engaging to play. Maybe it will change due to gear scaling later on, but for now, WHM will remain in the spotlight, since the devs made it very clear the changes are here to stay.

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Originally Posted by Halik

Spend that energy actually making Astrologians happy

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As I read this, I couldn't help but think "who do they think they're talking to."
I'm sorry.

Even if they did buff it to extreme levels, the current card system really hampers my enjoyment. So I doubt I'd play it anyways....

Buffing this class to the high heavens wont fix the flaws that hold this class back after the rework the devs decided to give it.

Whm will always be better than a Astro this expansion so dont worry

That something would plausibly be done that could "overbuff" any of the healers seems incredulous. The three healers have collectively stagnated or decayed. Let them buff Astrologian with abandon and then bring the others up as needed.

The job has been "fixed" only a week ago, it's normal that it's not represented that much in Savage clears yet, because people did not consider bringing it to Eden when WHM and SCH were doing fine. We have yet to see more clears and more data, but I'm fairly sure it terms of "doing what it's supposed to do" aka dps, heal and buff, AST is fine without any further buff now.

The sensitive issue is the card system, because some people don't like it and felt like switching to another job because of that. The devs have said they would not change it for now, so the discussion is kind of meeting a dead end here. Maybe people will get used to it, maybe they won't. Players are invited to keep providing feedback, so maybe later in 5.X cycle they could reconsider that question.

Assuming they aren't miles behind in overall DPS contribution compared to WHM, all I would want at this point is a buff to Divination (4/7/10%), Horoscope to auto-detonate, Neutral Sect to be applied to ALL healing (Edit: tested this with a few oGCD's, looks like it's sadly true.), adding 500MP return whenever you use Draw (so 10% MP per minute), and really that would do it for me. Maybe if they needed a bit more DPS, give Malefic IV 250 potency instead of 240 but with it's fast cast, I feel like all they need to do is make cards more impactful and add some QOL issues. This is assuming that they won't ever revert or seriously alter the current card system, which seems to be the case.

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Originally Posted by Arale

Assuming they aren't miles behind in overall DPS contribution compared to WHM, all I would want at this point is a buff to Divination (4/7/10%), Horoscope to auto-detonate, Neutral Sect to be applied to ALL healing (unsure on this one, tooltip says it flat out increases potency but I've seen people saying it only affects healing GCD's), adding 500MP return whenever you use Draw (so 10% MP per minute), and really that would do it for me. Maybe if they needed a bit more DPS, give Malefic IV 250 potency instead of 240 but with it's fast cast, I feel like all they need to do is make cards more impactful and add some QOL issues. This is assuming that they won't ever revert or seriously alter the current card system, which seems to be the case.

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A little note on the healing buff side. Healing buffs have always only worked on GCD heals, at least as far as I can recall. So i wouldn't count on them ever changing that. On the fast cast topic i personally like the idea of ast being the mobile healer, and thez are clearly heading in that direction with him. Maybe they could make a 1,5 cast time baseline for all ast GCD while reducing his pDPS and increasing the card buff in return. Because right now if you not perfectly weave your ogcd you actually lose more than what you gain from the cards.

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Originally Posted by Hereon

A little note on the healing buff side. Healing buffs have always only worked on GCD heals, at least as far as I can recall. So i wouldn't count on them ever changing that. On the fast cast topic i personally like the idea of ast being the mobile healer, and thez are clearly heading in that direction with him. Maybe they could make a 1,5 cast time baseline for all ast GCD while reducing his pDPS and increasing the card buff in return. Because right now if you not perfectly weave your ogcd you actually lose more than what you gain from the cards.

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I was not aware of that. Good to know. I'll test it on my WHM with Temperance later when I can get 3 lilies stacked. I like that fast cast idea but their pDPS is already pretty low. Malefic 4 is already 40 potency below Broil III, and 60 below Glare. Not to mention MP issues that would likely wise from such a playstyle. AST definitely needs their own secondary MP skill to bring them in line with WHM/AST. There was a thread dedicated to this and it had quite a few great ideals in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Halik

If your solution to bring players over to Astrologian is to buff it; please, just don't.

All it will do is push WHM out again, pulling over players that want to play WHM and not even appease the main issue actual Astrologians have with the job.

Spend that energy actually making Astrologians happy, and people who want to play the job will play it because of intrinsic joy, not extrinsic efficiency; even if the numbers aren't quite on par with the others.

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when i was telling same thing ppls said im trolling ...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-healers-again

They will. Then they will nerf it. People will whine on the forums. Rince and repeat.

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Originally Posted by Hereon

At this point, both of those go hand in hand. AST is neither effective nor overly engaging to play. Maybe it will change due to gear scaling later on, but for now, WHM will remain in the spotlight, since the devs made it very clear the changes are here to stay.

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I think it’s blatantly clear they have no idea what direction they want to go with Astro sadly. They say they wanted to kill synergies only to create dancer which is a buffing machine and basically has a guaranteed spot in savage raids. If they make the cards any stronger then they will risk most healers dropping whm and it will be astro/sch all over again. However it’s now mostly whm/sch. They backed themselves into a wall with it and now have no idea how to get out of it. Point blank. The healing of Astro is better but still has issues, mana issues, low dps, the cards suck and that was the selling point of Astro. Whm healing output is top notch, sch shields are op and Astro cards are terrible. I’m sure in 6.0 we will get a new healer so maybe they will truly focus on healers then since they seem to have tanks in a good place and most dps classes. Maybe in 6.0 healers will finally get the attention we’ve been begging for. Hey

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Originally Posted by Dynia

when i was telling same thing ppls said im trolling ...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-healers-again

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Because you were doomsaying to an extreme degree...

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Originally Posted by Hereon

A little note on the healing buff side. Healing buffs have always only worked on GCD heals, at least as far as I can recall. So i wouldn't count on them ever changing that. On the fast cast topic i personally like the idea of ast being the mobile healer, and thez are clearly heading in that direction with him. Maybe they could make a 1,5 cast time baseline for all ast GCD while reducing his pDPS and increasing the card buff in return. Because right now if you not perfectly weave your ogcd you actually lose more than what you gain from the cards.

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Asylum buffs ALL healing, including ogcds

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Asylum: Envelops a designated area in a veil of succor, healing any party members who enter.
Cure Potency: 100
Duration: 24s
Additional Effect: Increases HP recovery via healing actions on party members in the designated area by 10%

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Originally Posted by Sabrenn

Asylum buffs ALL healing, including ogcds

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Huh the more you know. Now that makes this buff actually usefull for once, i can barely believe it.

Edit: i went ingame and tested it myself on Assize. The buff actually works on oGCD.

Buffs to incoming heals tend to increase all healing received. It's outgoing heal buffs that only tend to increase GCDs.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

The sensitive issue is the card system, because some people don't like it and felt like switching to another job because of that. The devs have said they would not change it for now, so the discussion is kind of meeting a dead end here. Maybe people will get used to it, maybe they won't. Players are invited to keep providing feedback, so maybe later in 5.X cycle they could reconsider that question.

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As little benefit as I've seen from new card buffs, if SE isn't going to consider revamping the card system (which no longer has anything to do with the lore anyway), they should just scrap it altogether, add a simple 10th-level 15-sec group damage buff for 10% on a two minute CD, and Traits at levels 30, 50, and 70 for 1% increases. They could add a few action abilities with a few old card effects (e.g. damage mitigation, MP regen) for single target buffs 15sec on a shared 30sec CD, and each time one of those were used it'd add a seal to gauge, which once full, would activate a "Twilight" ability that heals your target to full and damages your target's target for the amount restored.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Buffs to incoming heals tend to increase all healing received. It's outgoing heal buffs that only tend to increase GCDs.

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To be fair, prior to ShB, most healing buffs only worked on healing magic, which meant GCD spells. Not oGCDs. So some people not realizing that most buffs now affect both GCDs and oGCDs can be forgiven.

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Originally Posted by Side-Eye

As little benefit as I've seen from new card buffs, if SE isn't going to consider revamping the card system (which no longer has anything to do with the lore anyway), they should just scrap it altogether, add a simple 10th-level 15-sec group damage buff for 10% on a two minute CD, and Traits at levels 30, 50, and 70 for 1% increases. They could add a few action abilities with a few old card effects (e.g. damage mitigation, MP regen) for single target buffs 15sec on a shared 30sec CD, and each time one of those were used it'd add a seal to gauge, which once full, would activate a "Twilight" ability that heals your target to full and damages your target's target for the amount restored.

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Actually, if they scrap the card system, it might be better to just not replace the group damage buff, and instead delete chain stratagem so none of the healers buff damage. I'm hesitant to say that because I know some people enjoy buffing, but, like...

As far as I can tell, SE isn't willing to give WHM a group damage buff, and can't balance healers without doing so, so they just deleted a bunch of skills in an apparent attempt to simplify things so they could balance stuff, maybe, at some point in the future.

I mean...wow. Take my buffs, then, because they're obviously more trouble than they're worth. O.O

Maybe what AST needs is a random-draw card system that does something other than buffing the party's damage.

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Originally Posted by Wawachume

Actually, if they scrap the card system, it might be better to just not replace the group damage buff, and instead delete chain stratagem so none of the healers buff damage. I'm hesitant to say that because I know some people enjoy buffing, but, like...

As far as I can tell, SE isn't willing to give WHM a group damage buff, and can't balance healers without doing so, so they just deleted a bunch of skills in an apparent attempt to simplify things so they could balance stuff, maybe, at some point in the future.

I mean...wow. Take my buffs, then, because they're obviously more trouble than they're worth. O.O

Maybe what AST needs is a random-draw card system that does something other than buffing the party's damage.

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How I wish if they would have removed balance instead of making them all be it.

Yeah, I'm honestly okay with AST's healing not being quite as strong as WHM's if we get the fun part of our job back. That's the main issue for me. Same with BRD. The fun wasn't in the DPS, it was in the mechanics. Even if I were FiShInG fOr A bAlAnCe (obvi I never did that that; it was a lovely surprise when the card draws were optimal, but I still played everything I was given), that's still engagement that I wouldn't have in this current system.




edit: seeing a previous post, I have to agree. If all our cards were utility, I'd be 100% down with that.

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Originally Posted by Wawachume

Actually, if they scrap the card system, it might be better to just not replace the group damage buff, and instead delete chain stratagem so none of the healers buff damage. I'm hesitant to say that because I know some people enjoy buffing, but, like...

As far as I can tell, SE isn't willing to give WHM a group damage buff, and can't balance healers without doing so, so they just deleted a bunch of skills in an apparent attempt to simplify things so they could balance stuff, maybe, at some point in the future.

I mean...wow. Take my buffs, then, because they're obviously more trouble than they're worth. O.O

Maybe what AST needs is a random-draw card system that does something other than buffing the party's damage.

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That is very sensible, they seems they go to great pains to implement these party buffs but seem to only have brought misery when it's time for balance.

I'll gladly see Chain Stratagem traded back for Virus. Virus was useful ever minute, Chain has a 10% chance of being useful every 2 minutes. From what I gather Balance was the one everyone wanted, but instead of dropping the +damage buff they dropped the other cards. Or if Balance is so important to, well, balance, just make it a seperate draw on a 3 minute cooldown. Like in card games "You look in your deck for Balance and draw it when you find it. Shuffle your cards after."

We are healing and support anyways, SE said we would be pure healer then let's buff utility not damage numbers.