Regarding MSQ Roulette bug and MSQ Roulette

Not getting specific here about this other than it's a reportable offence/possibly bannable for exploiting the game. Don't do it.

Dear SE,

What if you add a secondary MSQ roulette with less reward. We get that the high reward for the current one is given for all the waiting around we have to do throughout the cut scenes. So why not add the old MSQ roulette that we used to have as a secondary roulette for only those who have already completed the MSQ and make the cutscenes skippable. ?

Edit: people will STILL do the MSQ roulette with unskippable cutscenes for the high reward payout and newbs will still get their que, calm down. It's a suggestion that offers an additional option for certain players. It's okay to do that. It's okay.

Because your reward isnt what this roulette is about.
Its about getting people into those dungeons so newbies can complete them.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Because your reward isnt what this roulette is about.
Its about getting people into those dungeons so newbies can complete them.

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For a lot of people, the main scenario roulette isn't even an option anymore because of how time-consuming it is and that makes for one less roulette a day they will no longer reap any rewards, so yeah, rewards are part of the issue here. Newbies will still be able to clear msq if they maintain the current roulette because people are still doing it, people are just REALLY unhappy about unskippable cutscenes, but many will go through with it anyway simply for the high reward payout, while others would be happy with less for no cutscenes.

Edit: And how can you say roulette isn't about reward? That's the whole point of players spending 50 minutes re-running that roulette at all, BECAUSE of the REWARD.

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Originally Posted by BigTough

For a lot of people, the main scenario roulette isn't even an option anymore because of how time-consuming it is and that makes for one less roulette a day they will no longer reap any rewards, so yeah, rewards are part of the issue here. Newbies will still be able to clear msq if they maintain the current roulette because people are still doing it, people are just REALLY unhappy about unskippable cutscenes, but many will go through with it anyway simply for the high reward payout, while others would be happy with less for no cutscenes.

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Those people have several options that give less exp but dont have any cutscenes at all to choose from.

Those who are willing to suffer through the cutscenes for the high reward help new people to get through the dungeons - and those who dont want to suffer through the cutscenes can get their exp or tomes many other ways. I dont see a reason to adjust this roulette - dont wanna see the cutscenes? Dont do it.

Another one of these?

Reasons
1. No cutscence = No inflated Rewards
2. Cutscenes are unskippable for new player to enjoy the dungeon
3. Making cutscenes skippable in certain situations would lead to players to force that situation to happen (e.g. Skippable if all veterans)
4. Roulette exist with inflated reward so veteran would deign to the content for new players
5. You don't have to do content you don't like

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Originally Posted by BigTough

For a lot of people, the main scenario roulette isn't even an option anymore because of how time-consuming it is and that makes for one less roulette a day they will no longer reap any rewards, so yeah, rewards are part of the issue here. Newbies will still be able to clear msq if they maintain the current roulette because people are still doing it, people are just REALLY unhappy about unskippable cutscenes, but many will go through with it anyway simply for the high reward payout, while others would be happy with less for no cutscenes.

Edit: And how can you say roulette isn't about reward? That's the whole point of players spending 50 minutes re-running that roulette at all, BECAUSE of the REWARD.

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You shouldn't have to do every roulette every day, not being able to do every one is fine.

The point of the MSQ roulette is to get people into that old mandatory content which would otherwise have abysmal queues for people who are going through MSQ for the first time, and the rewards are meant as an incentive, they aren't the actual point. Creating a cutscene-skippable roulette would just draw people away from the roulette that lets newbies experience the dungeons more properly, SE probably cares more about that than getting the people currently avoiding MSQ roulette to do it in the skip roulette.

That also creates the question of "what would happen to newbies queueing for the dungeon?", would they be randomly queued into one or the other? Would the skippable version only be for people who had already completed the quest?

Let me explain:

-let cut scenes be skippable = no extra bonus = no high level players will queue for it (this option will not get people to pick it and thus... the new players will not get help if they select it, nor would they want to select it if they want to see the story... those who don't care might select it but again, they high levels who want to goodies won't be there soooooo...)

-noskip cut scenes = big rewards to make up for all that lost time = what the high level players want for all that juicy exp and tomes BUT... muh TIME ew CUT SCENES cue the complaining once again regardless of the new players who want to see the story...

I mean, they created this situation for the sole reason of high level players basically forcing new players to skip the cut scenes and missing the story. There is no 'vote to skip' because people will be bullied or kicked for not 'doing what they should and skipping'... and there is no 'skip if there is no new person' because people will flat out kick newbies for the same reason. It is the way it is BECAUSE OF THE ACTIONS OF THE PLAYERS in the past. Deal with it or don't run the content.

Aaaaand how exactly should it work..? Just for understading, right now there is no roulette (except Mentor) that has repeatable dungeons in it. And where it has (again, Mentor) - they work in the same way as they do in other roulettes.

And now look what we would have:
- One person uses MSQ with unskippable scenes because they want more rewards
- Another person uses MSQ with skippable scenes because they want their rewards faster
- One person is 1st timer and doesn't have MSQ at all. Question: in which party should they end up their playing, considering that the dungeon itself is the same?

Even if it's possible to separate skippable version from unskippable+1st time: is it worth? There is possibility to cope dungeon and make two versions that are the same but have different settings for cut scenes, but once again: is it worth?

Not to mention the reason why MSQ roulette exists to begin with, which makes two separate roulettes quite senseless. There is a reason why they made this change in the first place,and this reason, actually, is in this community: people rushed MSQ DR, bullying those who didn't want to skip cutscenes. Because "go watch journal" is bullying since people forced new players to skip the content and broke their game process. You don't like the roulette because it's long? Don't do this, it's simple. There are plenty of players who is ready to pay 15 minutes more per day and get more shinies for helping new player to get their MSQ experience.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Those people have several options that give less exp but dont have any cutscenes at all to choose from.

Those who are willing to suffer through the cutscenes for the high reward help new people to get through the dungeons - and those who dont want to suffer through the cutscenes can get their exp or tomes many other ways. I dont see a reason to adjust this roulette - dont wanna see the cutscenes? Dont do it.

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But I want to do it, I just don't always want 50 minutes of cutscenes, same as many other people, deal with it. Nothing wrong with asking or suggesting. Deal with people asking for things too. There is literally nothing wrong with this suggestion, newbs will still get their que, and players will still get their rewards, I think you are disagreeing for the sake of argument. smh

I just want the old roulette with the old rewards.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

I just want the old roulette with the old rewards.

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Agreed. That's what I'm suggesting for a secondary option. You could do both. It won't offset any rewards balance either, I mean, if people want poetics, they'll get them, roulette rewards won't stop them.

There are only three mutually exclusive changes I would like to MSQ roulette:

1. Make it a solo instance and remove it from the roulette. This actually matches how it’s presented lore wise...

2. Remove Praetorian unless there is a new person. I wanted to say have it pop only if there are new people but then you’d have long stretches with no popping and people would abandon it. I worry this number 2 idea could itself lead to anti new player bias... So I strongly prefer my first solution.

3. Double the reward if Praetorian... leave everything else as is. I don’t like this solution, but it’s better than my second idea.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

There are only three mutually exclusive changes I would like to MSQ roulette:

1. Make it a solo instance and remove it from the roulette. This actually matches how it’s presented lore wise...

2. Remove Praetorian unless there is a new person. I wanted to say have it pop only if there are new people but then you’d have long stretches with no popping and people would abandon it. I worry this number 2 idea could itself lead to anti new player bias... So I strongly prefer my first solution.

3. Double the reward if Praetorian... leave everything else as is. I don’t like this solution, but it’s better than my second idea.

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I REALLY like the solo option for a suggestion! Even if they removed the roulette and rewards, I would be behind that.

I used to dread MSQ Roulette but its relaxing specially with praetorium just a few sections you run/kill then u can afk w/e since the cutscenes are eternal
but i appreciate the EXP i get out of it on lvl 60+ specially~ ive got the mood to actually start lvling other classes~ so i dont mind it,sometimes i get ppl who are chatty and i get to talk about different stuff.
I dont even do it for the tomestones xD

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Originally Posted by Sathona

I used to dread MSQ Roulette but its relaxing specially with praetorium just a few sections you run/kill then u can afk w/e since the cutscenes are eternal
but i appreciate the EXP i get out of it on lvl 60+ specially~ ive got the mood to actually start lvling other classes~ so i dont mind it,sometimes i get ppl who are chatty and i get to talk about different stuff.
I dont even do it for the tomestones xD

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Yeah, I don't mind it sometimes. I'm usually chatting with someone or watching a show or taking a short Instagram break etc. How's the exp gain in comparison to levelling roulette? I always wondered but never wanted to run it for xp because of the reduced rewards, that and I figured the xp would be similar to 50/60/70 dungeons, which is okay but not great(especially with 50 mins of scenes).

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Another one of these?

Reasons
1. No cutscence = No inflated Rewards
2. Cutscenes are unskippable for new player to enjoy the dungeon
3. Making cutscenes skippable in certain situations would lead to players to force that situation to happen (e.g. Skippable if all veterans)
4. Roulette exist with inflated reward so veteran would deign to the content for new players
5. You don't have to do content you don't like

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At this point this should be pinned.

There is absolutely 0 reason they need to add a "skippable cutscence roulette". You and all the others will run it once and never again once you realize you don't get the juicy XP without the cutscenes. I don't even know why this is an issue at all. You don't like it? Don't run it. It's really that simple. Nobody is forcing you to do it.

With 100% Armony Bonus for 60-69 its quite decent,for lvl 70-79[50% armory bonus] i adoooore it! seeing 10+ million exp in ShB lvls is good!
If im burnt out from farming dungeons an MSQ Roulette will get me relaxed cause its a different pace/difficulty and i still get a big chunk of exp!
Im staying away from Lvl 50-70 Roulette as its only value to me atleast is if missing tomestones,since thats its only purpose to run it imo[low exp,higher amount of tomestones as rewards]

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Originally Posted by MajinSoul

At this point this should be pinned.

There is absolutely 0 reason they need to add a "skippable cutscence roulette". You and all the others will run it once and never again once you realize you don't get the juicy XP without the cutscenes. I don't even know why this is an issue at all. You don't like it? Don't run it. It's really that simple. Nobody is forcing you to do it.

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There were no shortage of veterans running the old roulette.

If you created a second MSQ roulette only accessible to people who have previously cleared it and with skippable cutscenes it would give no rewards.
You have now created a thing nobody ever queues for.
Because apparently we need more experiences like Ex Trial/BCoB DF queues.

What they should do is make the cutscenes skippable if you queue for the dungeons directly in a full/undersized party.

What would be funny though is if they removed the cutscenes again then reduced the xp from 16million => 5 million. People would be screaming just as much now that it is not worth it to do. Then less people will do it and ques will get stupid long and hurt newer people playing through the game.

Pretorium is long as crap... but you are rewarded a metric ton of XP. More so then anything else in the whole game.

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Originally Posted by BigTough

What if you add a secondary MSQ roulette with less reward. We get that the high reward for the current one is given for all the waiting around we have to do throughout the cut scenes. So why not add the old MSQ roulette that we used to have as a secondary roulette for only those who have already completed the MSQ and make the cutscenes skippable. ?

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Why would SE want players running the MSQ roulette without new players? It would just be a plain dungeon run with vets and as such there would be no need to turn that into a roulette.

I like the new system. Juicy exp etc and we can still use the chat during cutscenes. I like to do commentary on the cutscenes and just chat people up.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

What would be funny though is if they removed the cutscenes again then reduced the xp from 16million => 5 million. People would be screaming just as much now that it is not worth it to do. Then less people will do it and ques will get stupid long and hurt newer people playing through the game.

Pretorium is long as crap... but you are rewarded a metric ton of XP. More so then anything else in the whole game.

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Or the people who used to run it before and stopped running once cutscenes became unskippable would come back.

Queues for the roulette were fine before the change. Don't know why people expect them to become "stupid long".

The amount of "new" players comes down to one per 4-5 days. The roulette is there to cover those ppl ... theres a massive overflow of ppl who cleared it already.

The problem here is while you could say "if all have the clear we should be able to skip cs`s"

Which is right at first sight ... however it would cause 2 things.

1 ppl would be more likely to drop and craft for a bit then queue again.
2 ppl would make premades.

Neither benefits a new player. The massive exp is holding this together like ductape.

It also makes no sense those 2 have different reward exp values.

But SE mentioned a rework so theres hope.

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Originally Posted by BigTough

For a lot of people, the main scenario roulette isn't even an option anymore because of how time-consuming it is and that makes for one less roulette a day they will no longer reap any rewards, so yeah, rewards are part of the issue here. Newbies will still be able to clear msq if they maintain the current roulette because people are still doing it, people are just REALLY unhappy about unskippable cutscenes, but many will go through with it anyway simply for the high reward payout, while others would be happy with less for no cutscenes.

Edit: And how can you say roulette isn't about reward? That's the whole point of players spending 50 minutes re-running that roulette at all, BECAUSE of the REWARD.

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Some of us are actually patient and don't mind it, and just choose to watch something on youtube while the long praetorium cutscenes play out.

If you don't want to sit through MSQ roulette cutscenes, don't do it. Unskippable cutscenes is much better than the mess of a speedrun I got when I did the friggin finale of the MSQ that I was looking forward to and was being built up to. Just because you're not patient enough to sit through cutscenes doesn't give you the right to ruin the experience for first timers.

While I'm leveling everything I'm loving the inflated XP from Prae. I'm sure ince everything is leveled I'll just stay the hell out of it, unless I'm helping someone. But I'm not opposed to the idea of either making the MSQ solo or implementing skippable and non skippable instance. Honestly I would be perfectly fine with them at least allowing me to spam emotes during the cutscenes to liven them up some, or at least let us use the UI so we can make any changes to the HUD or system. Many a time I've gone to try and fix something with the dusted off job I'm now leveling to find that I don't like where something is placed. I can be super forgetful at times and more times than not it hits me while I'm stuck in a cutscene, sitting still.

People run Main Scenario for the experience gained. It's the best roulette for that and if anyone thinks that if they somehow make this sola able or that you will be able to skip the cuts that the experience gains will be notable you're kidding yourself.

I think there is a chance NPC's might be able to do part of it for new players wanting to clear main story although Trusts aren't until much later. I guess it remains to be seen if any further adjustments are made but for now me and my friends hope for Pratorium when we queue for Main.

Anything making it easier will reduce the experience earned you can be sure of that.

I just mute the tv, because I cba to hear the voices and stuff again and again, and eat breakfast/play the switch

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Originally Posted by BigTough

But I want to do it, I just don't always want 50 minutes of cutscenes, same as many other people, deal with it. Nothing wrong with asking or suggesting. Deal with people asking for things too. There is literally nothing wrong with this suggestion, newbs will still get their que, and players will still get their rewards, I think you are disagreeing for the sake of argument. smh

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So, you really just want to do those two MSQ-roulette-dungeons?

I'm sorry I'm not totally following your logic here - if there was an option to do those dungeons without the cutscenes the current roulette-reward would be cut by a lot. Currently you're getting such a high reward to reflect the amount of time those dungeons take - so probably about 45-50 minutes. If memory serves right there is maybe 10 minutes of fighting/running/gameplay involved and the rest is cutscenes, right? So if those cutscenes were removed you'd get exp worth 10 minutes of dungeon, which will be less than any on-level dungeon you could run in about the same time.

I havent done the roulette in ages because for me there are better ways to get exp so I dont know how much exp you're getting from it currently. My guess would be however that this amount would have to be cut by at least 80% if the cutscenes werent involved (based on my previous assumption that about 80% of the time spent with the dungeons is spent with cutscenes - maybe they'd even account for you not offering to help new people enjoy the end of ARR anymore by queueing for a roulette without cutscenes and will further cut the exp).

I'm not disagreeing with making suggestions, I'm merely trying to point out why the roulette is the way it is and why your suggetion isnt a good one. You missunderstood why the roulette is in place - its not there for you and your reward, its for new people to get to see the climax of ARR without having to rush through it.
I made my suggestion for you: If you dont want to deal with that, use any other possible option to gain exp and keep in mind that if they were to be fair about your suggestion the cutscene-free MSQ roulette would only give a tiny fraction of its current exp while potentially hurting the people it was put in place for.
You're saying yourself that you'd like the idea that those dungeons are beong turned into solo-instances and I agree thats a great idea! It would also mean that the MSQ-roulette would be gone - and if you agree with that idea, you can already treat it that way and dont do the roulette if you're not willing to do what it asks of you.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

I just want the old roulette with the old rewards.

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I want current msq, with current rewards.
And i want praetorium for most of times.

This again?

Look, Roulettes are a contract. You are being paid (in tomestones and exp) to run content you might not normally want to run. When you start the Roulette, you are agreeing to this contract. The purpose of the system is to ensure that folks new to the content have a ready supply of assistants to complete the content. The Roulettes work marvelously for this. If the payment is not worth the content to you, do not accept the contract (e.g, don't do the Roulette). There is absolutely no point in SE adding a "for veterans" version of any Roulette, because the whole purpose of the Roulette is to get newbies through the content. In fact, it would work as COMPETITION to the Roulettes that involve newbies, which they absolutely do not want.

If you've ever played an MMO that provides no rewards for running dated content, then you probably know how wretched it can be to find a group to help you through it. Roulettes are a godsend - just remember that they aren't there to help you get tomestones, they are there to help newbies get YOU.

For the argument that the forced cutscenes reduce the population of veterans willing to run the content - this is absolutely true. There's still ENOUGH, though, and I super wish that this system had been in place when I was a newbie. Plowing through and having no idea what was going on, and being locked out of boss fights because the fade-to-black on the cutscenes took too long (I was on PS3 at the time) was a miserable experience. Watching the cutscenes in the inn afterwards was disjointed and sad. The dungeon provides context for a lot of those cutscenes, and while I got the gist of the story from it, it was certainly a lesser experience for it.

I'm not sure that the solution we got was the best solution, but it's good enough. Newbies don't get blamed or kicked for slowing the run, because they have no control over it. Neither are they bullied into rushing things for the sake of the group.