One more thread to complain about the soul-crushing placard spamming

Seriously, I wish I had never gotten it into my head that I wanted a house, but SE put gameplay behind it, so I wanted in. Also I like decorating stuff and I want a garden to put stuff in.

I'm currently into my 10th concurrent hour of camping a placard, but in total it's my 21st hour. This is insane. This is killing any enjoyment I could have in the game. Stuff like this makes me question if I should even continue playing the game at all, because I have trouble supporting developers who create such player-unfriendly systems.

I am currently sacrificing sleep and I have sank so many hours into this one plot now that I don't want to get up and get a drink or go for a pee. There is absolutely no reason the invisible timer should ever be this long. This is how Blizzard would solve an issue, by creating a solution and then going way too far with the implementation.

You can tell a nice story, Square, but you need to up your game with these systems because this just can't proceed like this.

If there was a simple lottery system, I could just say I want this house and go play the game or go to sleep, and eventually I'd either get it or not. If the timer was shortened to 6-10 hours max, I'd own this plot by now. Anything, except perhaps the flippers, is better than this.

Hopefully SE will have more to tell us about their plans for housing this expansion during the next live letter.

Until then, considering getting an apartment. There are some really amazing things people have been able to do with their apartments despite the small space and limited number of items you can use. As for the garden, you do have limited gardening available to you even in an apartment via the flower pots. They let you grow the flowers that can be displayed in vases (which you can't do with the outdoor garden plots) plus you're still able to use soils to increase quantity or have a chance at increased quality. You wouldn't be able to do intercross gardening but that's something most players give up on shortly after trying it since the garden needs daily attention to avoid having expensive seeds end up wasted.

As for a lottery, it would never solve the long term problem of not enough available houses. Players would go from complaining about the timer to complaining about how they never get a house because they have to compete against so many other players. Better to encourage SE to address the issue of housing availability in general instead of asking them to spend their development time creating complex new systems that won't solve the core problem.

I believe in the next live letter, players can post a question for the devs, i lost the forum link unfortunately.

Found it:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-Questions%21

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

As for a lottery, it would never solve the long term problem of not enough available houses. Players would go from complaining about the timer to complaining about how they never get a house because they have to compete against so many other players. Better to encourage SE to address the issue of housing availability in general instead of asking them to spend their development time creating complex new systems that won't solve the core problem.

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if we take a normal lottery yes
Lets say its like loot rolls in dutys and add an additonal 5 for every time you failed to win a house and people trying either long time would get a higher chance or people with enought money to roll for multiple houses at once (lets say we pay upfront and get money back when you lose) could boost there chances considerable you still would have to wait/grind for houses but you could at least do something with your time

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Originally Posted by Toxin_Polaris

if we take a normal lottery yes
Lets say its like loot rolls in dutys and add an additonal 5 for every time you failed to win a house and people trying either long time would get a higher chance or people with enought money to roll for multiple houses at once (lets say we pay upfront and get money back when you lose) could boost there chances considerable you still would have to wait/grind for houses but you could at least do something with your time

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Or...they could upgrade the content delivery system as promised when you purchase the game and make housing available to everyone that wants one. (What a novel idea!) A lottery system would just create a whole new set of complaints.

Instead of the FC housing taking up the same spots as existing housing, exchange that function with the large apartment building. When you enter the (existing apartment type) building itself, it is its own instanced FC housing, much like the wards for Lavender Beds, Mist and Goblet. Instead of plots of land though, they are all located in the building, so each ward can have it's own instanced FC mansion or medium house, and when going in, it's just like the inside of what we are seeing today. Gardening plots can be adjusted and placed either inside, or FC housing gets it's own greenhouse with the same plot limitations.

This allows for more FC housing, more personal housing and maintaining the apartments just as they are now for those who either don't want/need a house and want to live in the apartments (yes, there are people like this).

While the lottery system is a good one, I believe that making instance housing would be a better option.

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Originally Posted by CaffeinatedDani

While the lottery system is a good one, I believe that making instance housing would be a better option.

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No thank you. People decorate their houses to be seen by others. And all the players that went through the trouble of acquiring a house currently would be shat on. Just add workshops, voyages, and gardens to apartments to let that argument die. Also add wards to Dhona!!!! Eulmore, Chrystarium, and Ishgard plus Dhona being full of new wards would open up A LOT of new housing. While you’re at it SE, raise all the prices relative to population. Not ARR prices but not dirt cheap as they currently are. Like 1/3 of ARR prices should be ok.

Lottery system would be much less annoying than spamming the fucking placard for hours ALONE only to see it snagged when people appear and the super secret special timer finally graciously ticks. At least I wouldn't waste my goddamn time and could do something that's actually FUN.

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Originally Posted by Toxin_Polaris

if we take a normal lottery yes
Lets say its like loot rolls in dutys and add an additonal 5 for every time you failed to win a house and people trying either long time would get a higher chance or people with enought money to roll for multiple houses at once (lets say we pay upfront and get money back when you lose) could boost there chances considerable you still would have to wait/grind for houses but you could at least do something with your time

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So in the same post, you say it's a somewhat worthwhile idea, then spoil said idea with an easy exploit to rig your chances.

Not a good sell, I'll grant you.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

So in the same post, you say it's a somewhat worthwhile idea, then spoil said idea with an easy exploit to rig your chances.

Not a good sell, I'll grant you.

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It´s an option for people with more gil but you could always implement it in a way you can only roll for one house at a time that would still be fine (also most high pop servers don´t have more then 1-3 houses open at a time anyway)

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Originally Posted by Caitsithhh

No thank you. People decorate their houses to be seen by others. And all the players that went through the trouble of acquiring a house currently would be shat on. Just add workshops, voyages, and gardens to apartments to let that argument die. Also add wards to Dhona!!!! Eulmore, Chrystarium, and Ishgard plus Dhona being full of new wards would open up A LOT of new housing. While you’re at it SE, raise all the prices relative to population. Not ARR prices but not dirt cheap as they currently are. Like 1/3 of ARR prices should be ok.

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Instanced housing doesn't preclude anyone from visiting another player's house (assuming they have guest access enabled).

People randomly wanting to look at a house will still find houses to view, and of course you're always free to invite your friends, FC and linkshell members.

I'd be absolutely fine with instanced housing if it included the ability to intercross garden, and spaces similar in size to decorate as current houses along with the same or increased item limits.

Wards are never the solution because they dilute the opportunities for those who want to do housing tours by forcing people to engage in multiple instances transfers to get between wards. If all houses for one district were located within a single ward with a placard listing the homes for a plot similar to how apartments work, then a player could simply go down the list for that plot to move from one home to the next.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Instanced housing doesn't preclude anyone from visiting another player's house (assuming they have guest access enabled).

People randomly wanting to look at a house will still find houses to view, and of course you're always free to invite your friends, FC and linkshell members.

I'd be absolutely fine with instanced housing if it included the ability to intercross garden, and spaces similar in size to decorate as current houses along with the same or increased item limits.

Wards are never the solution because they dilute the opportunities for those who want to do housing tours by forcing people to engage in multiple instances transfers to get between wards. If all houses for one district were located within a single ward with a placard listing the homes for a plot similar to how apartments work, then a player could simply go down the list for that plot to move from one home to the next.

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This^^^


Also, I personally don't go out of my way to see people's decor, unless they are my friends or from my FC.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Instanced housing doesn't preclude anyone from visiting another player's house (assuming they have guest access enabled).

People randomly wanting to look at a house will still find houses to view, and of course you're always free to invite your friends, FC and linkshell members.

I'd be absolutely fine with instanced housing if it included the ability to intercross garden, and spaces similar in size to decorate as current houses along with the same or increased item limits.

Wards are never the solution because they dilute the opportunities for those who want to do housing tours by forcing people to engage in multiple instances transfers to get between wards. If all houses for one district were located within a single ward with a placard listing the homes for a plot similar to how apartments work, then a player could simply go down the list for that plot to move from one home to the next.

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Considering there’s a petition rn on the new posts with hundreds of upvotes I’d say you’re the minority... Seeing how SE always stays on the same path as well then more wards will be what’s done. I’m just wanting certain area’s wards for aesthetic reasons. Instanced housing would be a much bigger hassle imo and cheaper the overall experience by A LOT. Pricing is what made housing so unobtainable. And price gouging is what people thought they wanted. ARR prices were too expensive but to cut it as drastically as they did made it so housing is nonexistent now. Only option is to add wards now. They can’t change the code to allow instanced housing for all. So continue doing what they have done by adding new areas but until pricing goes up housing will be a mess.

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Originally Posted by Caitsithhh

Considering there’s a petition rn on the new posts with hundreds of upvotes I’d say you’re the minority... Seeing how SE always stays on the same path as well then more wards will be what’s done. I’m just wanting certain area’s wards for aesthetic reasons. Instanced housing would be a much bigger hassle imo and cheaper the overall experience by A LOT. Pricing is what made housing so unobtainable. And price gouging is what people thought they wanted. ARR prices were too expensive but to cut it as drastically as they did made it so housing is nonexistent now. Only option is to add wards now. They can’t change the code to allow instanced housing for all. So continue doing what they have done by adding new areas but until pricing goes up housing will be a mess.

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I could post a different random petition online requesting that SE remove housing from the game completely and get more than just a few hundred signatures on it. A significant percentage of the player base sees housing as a waste of developer time and resources because they have no interest in it. A random petition does not establish what is a majority opinion.

Why do you think instanced housing would be a bigger hassle? You do realize that the interiors of our houses right now are already instanced, don't you? It's just the outdoor area and exterior fixtures that are part of the static ward.

How do you know SE can't add in code to create more instanced housing options? They already did it once for apartments. Those didn't exist until patch 3.4, a couple of years after the ward system was added to the game. There's no reason they can't add in more expansive instanced housing options as well.

Keep in mind I've never advocated removing the current ward system. I think it should be left in place for those players who want to compete to own the limited resource. But any further expansion of the housing system should be via instanced housing, not via new wards.

No more placard camping for anyone unless they actively enjoy competing for the rare resource.

No more having to drop membership from a friend's FC and paying a house flipper millions of gil for a FC that already owns a house.

No more worries about losing a house to demolition because you stopped playing for a couple of months.

Instanced housing solves those problems for an expanding player base without creating a massive drain on server resources. More wards wouldn't.

Housing Districts & ward system = legacy housing, rare resource but attainable with some competition needed.

Instanced housing e.g. improved apartment system = readily available housing system for everyone, with wide if not massive customisable apartment spaces allowing indoor gardening and balcony aesthetics.

With two systems together housing issues can be brought down to a minimal level.

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Originally Posted by Caitsithhh

No thank you. People decorate their houses to be seen by others. And all the players that went through the trouble of acquiring a house currently would be shat on. Just add workshops, voyages, and gardens to apartments to let that argument die. Also add wards to Dhona!!!! Eulmore, Chrystarium, and Ishgard plus Dhona being full of new wards would open up A LOT of new housing. While you’re at it SE, raise all the prices relative to population. Not ARR prices but not dirt cheap as they currently are. Like 1/3 of ARR prices should be ok.

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Don't speak for all of us.

I own a mansion, and sure, it's nice when/if people swing by... But you know what I would enjoy more? If others could enjoy the game fully and have a house of their own, instanced or not.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

No more placard camping for anyone unless they actively enjoy competing for the rare resource.

No more having to drop membership from a friend's FC and paying a house flipper millions of gil for a FC that already owns a house.

No more worries about losing a house to demolition because you stopped playing for a couple of months.

Instanced housing solves those problems for an expanding player base without creating a massive drain on server resources. More wards wouldn't.

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1) You don't need to camp placards. You're all acting as if you MUST stay there for the 12 - 18+ hours for a chance, when there are plenty of groups out there trying to help decrease your camping time and increase your actual useful time. Like, down to 1H or 30M of camping a plot. That's a pretty big advantage that the community offers.

2) Paying a house flipper millions of gil for an FC house is not only a Bannable offense, but frowned upon in every capacity. SE already pointed out that players can and will get banned for gouging plot prices. Getting a house that way only makes you worse than the sellers. (And yes, they can see when you do it. They're not dumb.)

3) Yes, because having a house remain yours for 6+months while you're off doing other shit, while the rest of your server is at each others throats for any plot available is totally fair. If you're not using the house, what reason do you have to be pissed when its taken away from you? It's just collecting dust in that regard and other people would definitely use the space a lot more wisely than someone that left.

4) Instanced housing WONT fix all these issues. Because even then, Instanced housing has a limit, same with District housing. It may not be a 1:1 ratio, but I can guarantee that 50+ apartments is much more taxing on a server than a handful of small plots. The issue we're at right now is that the demand is far higher than the supply and, despite SEs best efforts. Other people (See point 2) are only making it worse by capitalizing on other peoples desperation for validity. Adding more wards or adding more instanced housing won't fix the issue in any regard until the problems of both past and present are fixed.

We can't move on with building the foundations of a new way of life if the foundations are made of mud and cracked dirt. Shit'll crumble faster than you could run.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

4) Instanced housing WONT fix all these issues. Because even then, Instanced housing has a limit, same with District housing. It may not be a 1:1 ratio, but I can guarantee that 50+ apartments is much more taxing on a server than a handful of small plots. The issue we're at right now is that the demand is far higher than the supply and, despite SEs best efforts. Other people (See point 2) are only making it worse by capitalizing on other peoples desperation for validity. Adding more wards or adding more instanced housing won't fix the issue in any regard until the problems of both past and present are fixed.

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I never said anyone must camp placards yet it's an unhealthy behavior that many players are engaging in that should be a cause of concern for SE.

As with the above, there are players who are paying house flippers millions of gil. I have yet to have heard or seen anyone complain about getting a ban for doing it. Have you? That's because gil transactions are not a bannable offense while RMT is. It is an unsupported transaction, though. Being unsupported is not enough of a deterrent to prevent players desperate for a house to use it as the means to get one.

Why would a player owning an instanced house and taking a break from the game upset you so? Their ownership of that house would not block any other active player from owning a house. When houses are only available in the wards and thus a limited resource, that ownership does block other active players from getting a house when there are none otherwise available.Take a look at all the other games using instanced housing successfully without the drama we see caused by the ward system here.

Instanced housing will fix all the issues I listed. You clearly don't understand how instanced housing works compared to wards if you think instanced housing will be an even worse drain on server resources.

MMOs rebuild their foundations all the time to improve upon what was originally created as advancements in technology occur. While they can't make huge changes because they have to keep in mind the limits of the player base and the systems the players use to play the game, they do make other changes and improvement. Instanced housing is a change that will work for this game and we already have the basis for it in the apartments and the private quarters in the Crystarium. SE just needs to expand upon it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Why would a player owning an instanced house and taking a break from the game upset you so? Their ownership of that house would not block any other active player from owning a house. When houses are only available in the wards and thus a limited resource, that ownership does block other active players from getting a house when there are none otherwise available.Take a look at all the other games using instanced housing successfully without the drama we see caused by the ward system here.

Instanced housing will fix all the issues I listed. You clearly don't understand how instanced housing works compared to wards if you think instanced housing will be an even worse drain on server resources. .

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You're going on the assumption that everyone deserves a home, or is entitled to one and that cannot be further from the truth. You're entitled to a chance. On top of that, housing needs to remains finite so that there is a demand for them. If everyone could get a house, then what exactly is the point of owning one? The only benefit they have is for FCs with FC-related subsystems and growing crops. A Personal Home has no use other than to flex. But you wouldn't have anything to flex if everyone could get it.

On top of that, you need to re-read what I said about Instanced Housing vs Ward housing. I never said Instanced housing would be more draining. I stated that, if SE does go the way of Instanced housing. There'll be a massive surge and will take up far more memory than a small does. Purely because of the quantity of instanced housing. That's not taking into account exterior furniture, but that doesn't seem to be hampering anything beyond maybe .01 seconds added onto loading into the ward / subdivision.

Keep in mind, here. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people screaming for a housing fix, adamant that "instancing" will fix the issue. The moment that becomes a reality (Which I hope doesn't), there will be thousands of new instanced houses flooding the system and it may not even be able to cope. Nobody (that I am aware of) knows the hardware specs of the Server Computers SE uses.

EDIT: And of course nobody's going to complain about being banned for House-flipping. To complain admits you did it. Nobody's that dumb.

All this discussion reminds me another MMO called "dofus" who bought an ideia for housing from another MMO of the same creators (Wakfu). The system consists in all character, after reaching lv10, do a quest to open a "magic bag". When getting one, you can teleport to the inside of the bag which is your "portable" home capable of receive decorations and themes (that you can buy optional themes in their 'mogstation' like site).

I don't mean to SE do exactly the same, but I think all this problem could be solved simply by giving to all chars the possibility of have a simple house. Let's say that in the name of all that you do for Eorzea the Alliance would give you a house as a gift. You can then teleport for your personal house, decorate it, invite friends and so on...

Another aspect is: they could do that without removing all the house options already done. But, they could remove the dependency between exploratory missions and housing. Let's say that when you got yourself a FC the ironworks team just send to you a new NPC that allows your FC to use his/her factory.

In this way, all of us get a house (after reaching lv50 and ending 2.0 would be the perfect moment to receive the key for our personal house). Of course, your 'personal house' cannot be sold and you can have one more house in a ward (or one apartment) with the same char that you can sell normaly.

All ward houses would be as it is now: a trophy for VERY patient people who want to have "legacy type" houses (with more features, like more interior slots for stuffs and expandeable rooms). And appartments would be like as it is now, but with more slots as well and a gardening place.

The 'personal house' should be different of those two houses being more simple, but with the option to have full gardening as well (and more unique features in new expansions to come).

This way, we'll have 3 kinds of houses:
- a 'personal' house: the most simple, but with gardening system (with a gardener and a tiny and cozy greenhouse). Cannot be sold (it would be bind to your char). Fewer costumization options.
- a 'normal' house: limited to 1 for char (beside the personal house). Can be bought in wards or apartment. Can be sold normaly. More options to costumize and divided in 3 tiers (as we know now: small, regular, big house).
- a Free Company House: exclusively reached at special for FCs wards. Have the most complex ways to customize, expand and more space with, of course, their own prices table and being able to sell as well. Divided also in 3 tiers of size: regular, big house and mansions.

In each actual ward we could have a public chocobo stable. For all we can do using the FC one we can do as well on the public chocobo stable. The difference would be that for everything you want (like change color, train, etc) you'd have to pay for the service to a NPC there. You can even use a chocobo's food without having it on your inventory (since you pay the price for the service to the NPC as well).

The same goes to gardening. Imagine a caretaker in your house (or a greenhouse manager) which you pay for the service of raising and managing your seeds. In this way you can grow plants and flowers (and the freaking thavnarian onion) without minding the time to visit it (since you afford the price for the service). To compensate things, let's say the NPC gardener is as lazy as a drunk lalafel at the end of a seasonal feast, so, using his services will take more time to complete gardening than you would if you do it by yourself.

If those changes are someday implemented, we will have more options and more versatility to train chocobos, to make exploratory missions, gameplay, gardening and more independency at doing all that without having to enter a FC first. And if we enter a FC we will still be having all those options and systems.

Nothing 'removed', but just expanded for the sake of versatility. This will surely kill this inhuman queue issue we have today.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

You're going on the assumption that everyone deserves a home, or is entitled to one and that cannot be further from the truth. You're entitled to a chance. On top of that, housing needs to remains finite so that there is a demand for them. If everyone could get a house, then what exactly is the point of owning one? The only benefit they have is for FCs with FC-related subsystems and growing crops. A Personal Home has no use other than to flex. But you wouldn't have anything to flex if everyone could get it.

On top of that, you need to re-read what I said about Instanced Housing vs Ward housing. I never said Instanced housing would be more draining. I stated that, if SE does go the way of Instanced housing. There'll be a massive surge and will take up far more memory than a small does. Purely because of the quantity of instanced housing. That's not taking into account exterior furniture, but that doesn't seem to be hampering anything beyond maybe .01 seconds added onto loading into the ward / subdivision.

Keep in mind, here. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people screaming for a housing fix, adamant that "instancing" will fix the issue. The moment that becomes a reality (Which I hope doesn't), there will be thousands of new instanced houses flooding the system and it may not even be able to cope. Nobody (that I am aware of) knows the hardware specs of the Server Computers SE uses.

EDIT: And of course nobody's going to complain about being banned for House-flipping. To complain admits you did it. Nobody's that dumb.

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You talk as if SE wouldn't do stress-tests before instanced housing is released... lol.

We have instances now and we're fine - Dungeons, Inn rooms etc. are all instanced and lo and behold, no server crashes ;D. You say yourself that "Nobody (that I am aware of) knows the hardware specs of the Server Computers SE uses.", this includes yourself. SE wouldn't roll something out that breaks the game. You don't know that instanced housing would be so detrimental.

As someone that owns a mansion, I believe that everyone is entitled to a house - we've been promised so much, and yet the dev team have backtracked or outright ignored past promises. Originally, we were told that FC and personal houses would be different, and that we wouldn't be charged the same prices for each... But look at how that turned out (oops). Plenty of older MMOs have been able to deliver instanced housing to their players.
Personally, I'd love to see workshops added to existing, non-FC houses (at a cost, same as it is for FC houses); and I'd love to see apartments of different sizes that allow for crossbreed gardening. If we tweaked what we currently have, at least that'd help to alleviate some of the issues people have with the current housing system. (example: apartments are too few/small/can't garden etc.)

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Originally Posted by Kenky

You're going on the assumption that everyone deserves a home, or is entitled to one and that cannot be further from the truth. You're entitled to a chance. On top of that, housing needs to remains finite so that there is a demand for them. If everyone could get a house, then what exactly is the point of owning one? The only benefit they have is for FCs with FC-related subsystems and growing crops. A Personal Home has no use other than to flex. But you wouldn't have anything to flex if everyone could get it.

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As we all pay a subscription for the game, yes, we do deserve it. Isn't it rather sad that you would deny housing for everyone because of the "status" you feel is affixed to it? You speak as if people will go visit your house, awestruck and envious, "Look! That is the house of Kenky, known to allas the foremost Eorzean real estate magnate!" Give me a break. Nobody but you cares about your house. There is no "flexing" involved. Perhaps you attach too much self-worth to your house and you think that everyone being able to enjoy a house will somehow invalidate that feeling. It will, but that's really a personal problem for you that you'll have to come to terms with.

Oh no! All the filthy plebeians now have houses too! What will become of the vaunted reputation I gained through the ownership of my house?!

Are you serious?

What about one small change to the current system. Could keep the random time up to 22 hours from when the house collapses, but instead of standing around at the placard for 22 hours clicking. just let the placard take names, so you put your name in the pool. Then some random time like now, it picks a name at random. Then you have 24 hours to get back to the placard to complete the purchase. If you don't get there, then it picks another name and so forth. Could even limit it so you cannot just go around putting your name in the pool on every house, say maybe 2 max or something. If worried about house flipping, then limit how often you can purchase a house. once a week or something.

There are things however that are easier acquired than others. In terms of housing, currently houses in districts/wards are hard to acquire and at the same time not adequate for the number of players but it is still attainable with some competition required, this is where an instanced form of housing comes in, that is to provide a readily available form of housing with the utilities of a house in the districts/wards, with benefits such as no auto demolition, possibly an instanced balcony aesthetic, etc. but minus the private yard.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

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Why do you assume other players don't deserve to have a house? Why do you think you deserve a house more than another player? Maybe you're the one who doesn't deserve it.

There will always be a demand for housing because people enjoy it. Most people don't feel threatened when other players have the same things they do. I wonder why you do.

What's the benefit and use of owning? Having fun. I don't need people going in and out of my house to have fun decorating and redecorating when the mood strikes me.

I don't flex over owning a house. My enjoyment doesn't come from trying to impress others. That's a you problem if you're using housing to build your self-esteem. Might I suggest that you go after the Legendary titles if you genuinely want something to flex over?

You still don't understand how instanced housing works and it's clear you're not willing to learn. You make up reasons that don't have anything to do with the reality.

Are you new to gaming forums? People openly complain about the stupid things they do that lead to getting banned all the time. Game forums and fansite forums are filled with hysterical posts from people who admit to violating rules because they felt they wouldn't get caught or that the rules shouldn't apply to them if they were, then they cry and whine like small children because they got banned after all.

Safe to say we're not going to agree here. You want housing to be designed so you can feel like a special snowflake. I want housing accessible so everyone who wants to enjoy it can.

An instanced system doesn't have to remove your ability to be a special snowflake if the wards also remain in place. You can gloat over having that exclusive ward house while others get to have fun in their instanced housing. It's a win win for everyone - but I guess you can't stand the thought of others also getting to have some fun. What a petty, selfish attitude you have.

Good, you got me.

No, I don't know how the SE servers held up, but I do recall an entire datacenter going down quite regularly because of the issues of a single server on it. It may be a long-since fixed issue. But it was an issue nonetheless.

No, I don't think people deserve a house. Because I still stand by my previous point that if all could obtain one, then it would lose all value. I may not even deserve the plot I have (as you all seem so adamant to cry about) but I have one, because I used the system given to me. Not cry like a child on a forum demanding Entitlement.

Yes, I do understand how instanced housing works, but I still stand by my point that plenty of high-pop servers all flooding a single subsystem with requests could have rather detrimental effects. Regardless of how "stress-tested" the system is. Or do I need to simply point out that excessive clicking and buy-requests through the Placard system can chug the entire server for a few seconds, if done too much? Inn rooms and Dungeons aren't "perfect" either.

No, I don't feel threatened about people owning housing. I would rather much like everyone to have a house of their own, so they can enjoy the systems given to them. But sadly, I'm one of those "realistic" people that can see it won't just be a simple fix, like a snap of the fingers.

More wards? More players come on, needing more wards and apartments, bringing more players in. A vicious cycle. I could easily just say "move to a lower pop server and you'll get a house. Don't complain." but even then, I am aware that people have connections to what servers they're on. Maybe they have friends, or an FC there. A community they would rather like to keep above getting a house.

At the end of the day, it's fine if we disagree. But stating I don't know anything because I disagree just makes you seem pretty petty.

EDIT: For mathematical reasons, lets say everyone is entitled or deserved a house. Say high-pop servers are at 8,000 - 10,000 unique players at a stretch, that would mean you're requesting at least 10,000 House plots per server (Not including apartments) on all servers. Which would fix the high-pop issue, but cause all low-pop servers (Sub 1,000 unique players) to have an even bigger ghost-town. Not only that, but the "We fixed the housing system!" outcry would bring in more people, statistically flocking to the higher-pop servers, raising its population while leaving the lower-pops barely touched. I'd give that scenario a month, tops. Before people start complaining about "housing issues" again. While it would be fine and dandy to keep adding plots. Not all servers are filled to the brim.

Adding more housing (even instanced) would make lower-pop servers all the more 'dead' because they'd have thousands of empty plots, sitting there at the lowest possible value (1M, if that) with nobody interested in picking it up. Adding more housing cannot be done with a "per-server" basis. If one server gets an upgrade, they ALL get an upgrade. It's a tricky dance SE will have to perform in order to please the vocal minority, while not killing the system for lower-pops.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Good, you got me.

No, I don't know how the SE servers held up, but I do recall an entire datacenter going down quite regularly because of the issues of a single server on it. It may be a long-since fixed issue. But it was an issue nonetheless.

No, I don't think people deserve a house. Because I still stand by my previous point that if all could obtain one, then it would lose all value. I may not even deserve the plot I have (as you all seem so adamant to cry about) but I have one, because I used the system given to me. Not cry like a child on a forum demanding Entitlement.

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You're incorrect there. Everyone who wants house absolutely deserves to have one. It's one thing if you're talking about it losing value because it takes no effort to get, like max ilv raid gear given to players simply because they gave savage a shot or something, but the issue is a total lack of availability.
In other words, no matter how hard they "try" they can never get a house unless one opens up. So what you're saying is that housing is worth having only because you were LUCKY which is why it's unfair, like your simple luck makes you more worthy than others. LUCK is not an achievement, it's just luck. So, grats for being lucky whereas others were not. It's not much to be proud of really...It's not like you played the game better to get a house, because skill has nothing to do with it, and that's where the divide should really be. It's one thing to have something others don't because you earned it through hard work, it's very much another to have something because you clicked a placard faster or happened to get a house before the game gained more players.

Sure, it'll take effort to add houses, everyone can agree there, but it's a good thing that they need to add more because it means more people are playing their game. That means they'll have to step up efforts to appease everyone, not tell new players they can never have a house because, well, they're just too late or they're just not good enough at speed clicking placards.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

At the end of the day, it's fine if we disagree. But stating I don't know anything because I disagree just makes you seem pretty petty.

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No, I'm stating that you don't know anything BECAUSE you don't know anything, not because I disagree with you.

You say that you don't feel threatened about others owning a house, but I feel like there's some animosity toward those that do want one

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No, I don't think people deserve a house. Because I still stand by my previous point that if all could obtain one, then it would lose all value. I may not even deserve the plot I have (as you all seem so adamant to cry about) but I have one, because I used the system given to me. Not cry like a child on a forum demanding Entitlement.

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As a previous poster put it - you weren't skilled/talented/whatever enough to get a house - all you did was click a placard faster, go you. /slowclap

I already own a mansion in a pretty spiffy plot and you know what? Despite the millions I dropped on that house, I would love to see others be able to get a house. They should be able to enjoy the game at its fullest. They pay the same sub as me. If it were a matter of skill keeping people out of housing then I'd be on the other side of the fence - but it's not. It's a terribly broken system that favors botters and people who either have +12hrs to sit at a placard spamming, or those who are just lucky.

Keep the existing wards so that those who really give a damn about showing off/whatever can still do so, but add instances so that those who just want a place to call home are able to. And before the argument that "We have apartments/FC rooms!" is dropped - they are tiny and don't have all the functionality of a house so don't really count.

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Adding more housing (even instanced) would make lower-pop servers all the more 'dead' because they'd have thousands of empty plots, sitting there at the lowest possible value (1M, if that) with nobody interested in picking it up. Adding more housing cannot be done with a "per-server" basis. If one server gets an upgrade, they ALL get an upgrade. It's a tricky dance SE will have to perform in order to please the vocal minority, while not killing the system for lower-pops.

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It really wouldn't - you'll still have the people that want to show off in the wards. To add instanced housing doesn't mean that they'll have to add more wards - if they kept the wards limited, those houses would be seen by some as a status item. Who wouldn't jump at buying their own piece of the zone?

The main argument I'm hearing from people who are against this is "BUT...MY PRESTIGE!"

Who's acting petty now?

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

You're incorrect there. Everyone who wants house absolutely deserves to have one.

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Opinions can't be wrong deary. Just because you want something doesn't mean you deserve it. If you want to bring up the "I paid for it already" argument, you have an entire argument to bust with the mogstation, as we all have already paid for those and yet they're locked behind another paywall.

IMO, to solve the housing crisis without making ghost towns or bloating the wards even more (for real who visits houses when theres 18x2 identical wards to stroll through?) They should add wards to nearly every small village. Just a single ward. There will be demand for particular wards more than others, but there will be variance. Do away with this anti consumer can't-sell-your-plot nonsense, and embrace an actual real estate economy.
I would even flag the current wards for deletion at the same time so the four current ones can regain some mote of uniqueness again.
Add a ward to Mor Dhona, Idyllshire, Doma Enclave, Ala Mhigo and then add the small hamlets. Hrystmill, Gold Bazaar, Aleport, go further and add the small villages no one bothers to remember anymore, Quarrymill, Bronze Lake, Vesper Bay. Eventually the load gets spread out. I would even go so far as allowing people/FC to buy the right to open up a new ward (for an exuberant price of course, maybe even a mogstation exclusive to help pay for more whale ba.. i mean server infrastructure). Let them sell and auction of plots as they see fit. This would allow for people to consolidate wards based on playstyle, as all the RPrs would want to be in the same ward so they actually get used and they actually have a theme outside Piassa trash pit #419

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Originally Posted by Atamis

Opinions can't be wrong deary. Just because you want something doesn't mean you deserve it. If you want to bring up the "I paid for it already" argument, you have an entire argument to bust with the mogstation, as we all have already paid for those and yet they're locked behind another paywall.

IMO, to solve the housing crisis without making ghost towns or bloating the wards even more (for real who visits houses when theres 18x2 identical wards to stroll through?) They should add wards to nearly every small village. Just a single ward. There will be demand for particular wards more than others, but there will be variance. Do away with this anti consumer can't-sell-your-plot nonsense, and embrace an actual real estate economy.
I would even flag the current wards for deletion at the same time so the four current ones can regain some mote of uniqueness again.
Add a ward to Mor Dhona, Idyllshire, Doma Enclave, Ala Mhigo and then add the small hamlets. Hrystmill, Gold Bazaar, Aleport, go further and add the small villages no one bothers to remember anymore, Quarrymill, Bronze Lake, Vesper Bay. Eventually the load gets spread out. I would even go so far as allowing people/FC to buy the right to open up a new ward (for an exuberant price of course, maybe even a mogstation exclusive to help pay for more whale ba.. i mean server infrastructure). Let them sell and auction of plots as they see fit. This would allow for people to consolidate wards based on playstyle, as all the RPrs would want to be in the same ward so they actually get used and they actually have a theme outside Piassa trash pit #419

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If someone's opinion is that I can't have something because they feel I don't deserve it but they do, then ya, they can totally be wrong. It's not really an opinion at that point, it's arrogance.

But ya! Add more wards! Doesn't have to be instanced, we just need more. A LOT more. The buying method is as broke as it gets though. Absurdly so.

Please re-read what I posted. I stated that I'd prefer for people to have the access they want. But with systems the way they are, it just can't be done without some serious tuning. People cannot hide behind the "I pay my sub, therefore <X>" anymore, because it's just gotten beaten into the floor so harshly that it's lost all potency.

I pay for my sub, yet plenty of things from previous events require I buy them, when people got them for free, yet I don't complain.

It would be great for everyone to have a house. To be able to not have ANY issue whatsoever. But that is a dream paradise and people (Not all, but a very vocal few) just find anything to bitch at, purely for the sake of bitching.

You don't realize that it's not as simple as "adding more stuff". Atamis' proposal would be a lot better as it'd appeal to mostly all groups. But no, people would still demand two completely separate housing systems, with pros and cons to both sides. but at this point, it's no longer about the housing issue. It's just white noise and every point has been said a multitude of times with different inflections and reactions.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

The buying method is as broke as it gets though.

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Absolutely. I was up a good 12 hours clicking a sign for my house. it was miserable and i wish that upon nobody. A silent auction, or a lotto would be far more productive than this. Not to mention if a medium/large ever open up, at no point with it be bought, it will be snatched up in a transfer before the hour is up.

Agreed. I know they're worried about RMT and player/player abuse, but a deadlock is not a cure.

And apartments just don't cut it. For example, 2 of the 3 items we're getting for the Summerfest are for outdoor use only...

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Originally Posted by Kenky

You don't realize that it's not as simple as "adding more stuff"

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Yes, we do but instead of harping on about how nobody else should be able to get a house, we plead to SE for them to find a solution.
You can claim "but server instability!" all you like, but that's for SE to handle.

I'm yet to hear a compelling argument against making housing available that doesn't ultimately boil down to "I don't want them to have what I have."

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Originally Posted by Kenky

I pay for my sub, yet plenty of things from previous events require I buy them, when people got them for free, yet I don't complain.

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Terrible choice of argument here - you can't compare event items to houses given that the event items, were at one point (multiple if you count mogstation) fairly obtainable.
Housing should require work to obtain - make it expensive, make it a grind, do whatever; that being said, it should be obtainable.
No one's asking for a handout; they just want to be able to enjoy an aspect of the game that shouldn't revolve around dumb luck to achieve.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Agreed. I know they're worried about RMT and player/player abuse, but a deadlock is not a cure.
And apartments just don't cut it. For example, 2 of the 3 items we're getting for the Summerfest are for outdoor use only...

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For real - I would definitely make more use of my apartment if it was actually...worth using.
I can't garden (crossbreed etc) in there, it's small/cramped - the beams along the walls eat up so much of my limited space, as do the fixed windows.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

EDIT: For mathematical reasons, lets say everyone is entitled or deserved a house. Say high-pop servers are at 8,000 - 10,000 unique players at a stretch, that would mean you're requesting at least 10,000 House plots per server (Not including apartments) on all servers. Which would fix the high-pop issue, but cause all low-pop servers (Sub 1,000 unique players) to have an even bigger ghost-town. Not only that, but the "We fixed the housing system!" outcry would bring in more people, statistically flocking to the higher-pop servers, raising its population while leaving the lower-pops barely touched. I'd give that scenario a month, tops. Before people start complaining about "housing issues" again. While it would be fine and dandy to keep adding plots. Not all servers are filled to the brim.

Adding more housing (even instanced) would make lower-pop servers all the more 'dead' because they'd have thousands of empty plots, sitting there at the lowest possible value (1M, if that) with nobody interested in picking it up. Adding more housing cannot be done with a "per-server" basis. If one server gets an upgrade, they ALL get an upgrade. It's a tricky dance SE will have to perform in order to please the vocal minority, while not killing the system for lower-pops.

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You're again demonstrating you don't understand how instanced housing works.

You never will understand if you keep basing your assumptions on how the static "always on" ward system in this game works.

You're going to have to experience instanced housing in another game before you'll understand what the rest of us are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Really? Because, last I checked. There are plenty of servers with open plots and back a while ago (quite a while, in fact) housing was also quite readily obtainable. So how is it terrible to compare them when they both used to be readily obtainable to now being hidden behind some other system? Do share with the class.

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You can cut the attitude, because it does nothing to bolster your argument and just makes you look defensive (for no reason, I may add. No one's attacking you, just disagreeing with you.)

Houses WERE (not are) obtainable on smaller, fledgling servers when prices were higher because hardly anyone had that kind of gil, which is understandable. It gave folks something to work toward. Comparing the needs of the player-base from a year-plus back to now is not going to do much - people back then still wanted houses but didn't fully have the means at the time. That being said, on legacy/well-established servers, houses were snapped up and there's been a shortage for quite some time.

You keep trying to compare something that was readily available to anyone in an unlimited quantity to something that is extremely limited in quantity and locked behind a broken system. (Bolding for emphasis, just in case you want to keep dancing around my argument)

Event items: Available to those who put the work in during the event, or bought from mogstation at a later date. Available to ALL characters in unlimited quantity, so as long as characters either did the event, or had a couple dollars to spare, they'd be able to get the event item.

Houses: Originally available to those who had substantial funds, are now available only to those who can: sit for 1~30hrs at a placard spamming and hoping that they can out-click the other campers and occasional bot/macro user - that's even IF a house is open. On more populated servers, you're extremely lucky to see any plots open. These are extremely limited in quantity and locked behind a broken system which means that even if someone has the means to obtain the house, they still have little chance of getting one.

Do you see the difference now?
It'd be a different story if it was say.... 50m for a small (just throwing a number out there), but there was one for everyone, IF they were able to raise the 50m. Make it grindy, make it a chore, make it whatever. But the chance would still be there.
The current system locks people out, regardless of whether they have the means or not simply due to there being 3-times as many players as there are available plots. There will never be enough houses for the current player-base with the current system; this is why people are mad.

Keeping current wards would be rad - people could show off their houses etc. if they wanted.
However, by adding instanced housing, this would alleviate the issue at hand and offer everyone a chance at a home of their own (that actually functions like the other homes).

No one's saying to hand them out for free - make them grindy as hell, more expensive than ward housing if they have to. Make it a gil sink! Make them upgradable, make them out of marshmallows - whatever.

But still, all I'm getting from your argument is "I don't want them to have this because it'll devalue what I have".... which it won't - ward housing would still be seen as a status symbol because some people love to show off their homes. As I've said in a previous post - who wouldn't jump at the chance of owning their own small part of a zone?

Class dismissed.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You're again demonstrating you don't understand how instanced housing works.

You never will understand if you keep basing your assumptions on how the static "always on" ward system in this game works.

You're going to have to experience instanced housing in another game before you'll understand what the rest of us are talking about.

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I would prefer instanced housing to be honest. I'd rather sacrifice the current system for one where wards feel alive rather than ghost towns. This would allow everyone to get their house in the location they want. Possibly add in more NPCs to make the wards feel more lived in and it will be fine.

Ideally if instanced it would generate the housing 'when required' meaning unless 10k people all happened to visit their houses on the same server at the same time it would be a lot less taxing on servers compared to running 4320 housing zones permanently on each server.

There is no point to wanting a house. Soul crushing is right. I could care less if we get yet another three-boss + the same old trash mob hard-mode dungeon... GIVE US MORE HOUSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!