Enchanted reprise as an oGCD

What would you think if they turned reprise into an oGCD outta nowhere, we know tho that this will happen with a chance of 0.1 %?

Do you think red mage would benefit from it?

It's an idea, I'll give it that. With no cast time it would make it viable for doing the 120s rotation, as the opportunity costs would be vastly reduced. I'd prefer to raise it's potency to 300 and leave it as a GCD; the advantage of it being an instant cast at 300 potency would be that we can use it as a mobility tool in addition to supplementing our rotation to meet a 120s loop.

... huh. Y'know I hadn't really considered that.

I mean my knee-jerk reaction was to say "no" since it's supposed to be a tool to use while moving... but since we avoid it anyway, and we already use Moulinet to dump Mana, this... might actually be preferable...

My concern would be that if it becomes an oGCD, how would we even compare its output to the melee combo... Fairly certain it would have to be nerfed even harder as an oGCD.

I wish Enchanted Reprise didn't exist and Reprise was just a ranged attack to begin with. That or Enchanted Reprise didn't reduce your black / whight mana since if you run out of mana using the skill when you have to move you can't really use it for it's intended purpose. While they are at it just upgrade Displacement into Engagement or remove Engagement and just decrease the distance you jump back with Displacement.

either a OGCD or it gives us a dual cast

the move needs to be way more than just verscathe such a joke of a move

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

My concern would be that if it becomes an oGCD, how would we even compare its output to the melee combo... Fairly certain it would have to be nerfed even harder as an oGCD.

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If it were an oGCD, it would need to be noticeably less than (20 mana * 6.8 potency/mana), so ~100. At 136 or higher it would be optimal to spend all your mana on E.Reprise. Since it wouldn't delay further spellcasting, its value would only need to account for the mana it spends.

I'm assuming we're talking about a short enough cooldown that it could be used on demand; if it were longer then the potency could be higher.

Tbh prolly easiest fix would be.

Take away its Cost. And make another OGCD out of it, maybe on a 10 sec CD..

Add a small white and black mana gain from it c6 and flèche. (like 10 of Each)

Take Verflare and Verholy off GCD.

Allow us to do what we do now but abit faster, this would add Engagement as it'd be a Faster rotation, we'd see our Finishers More, Rejuvernise the Old Rotation reducing how stale it will feel to some Players, without adding anymore additional abilities, creating a higher Skill Curve, or Creating Unintended Gameplay, and it'd be a buff in itself so no need to try adjust any numbers :P (unless we come out alittle too powerful ofcourse)

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Originally Posted by Rongway

If it were an oGCD, it would need to be noticeably less than (20 mana * 6.8 potency/mana), so ~100. At 136 or higher it would be optimal to spend all your mana on E.Reprise. Since it wouldn't delay further spellcasting, its value would only need to account for the mana it spends.

I'm assuming we're talking about a short enough cooldown that it could be used on demand; if it were longer then the potency could be higher.

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Any theories as to what cooldown would be good to balance it?

As an on command dump, even having a low potency would be okay although many would view it as discount Edge of Shadow.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Any theories as to what cooldown would be good to balance it?

As an on command dump, even having a low potency would be okay although many would view it as discount Edge of Shadow.

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If its potency were low enough below what the mana would be worth if you spent it on a melee combo instead, then it would be okay on a 1.0s cooldown. You wouldn't use it except as a mana dump prior to Manafication, and in such a case it could be used up to twice to dump the 20|20 that would be lost anyway due to Manafication.

On a longer cooldown it's harder much harder to say.

The main purpose of Enchanted Reprise is to use it when you need more 2.5 seconds to move for mechanics.

What it needs is a potency buff, because right now its a dps loss in every situation(Mana dump or for moviment).

Enchanted Reprise as an oGCD will be even worse than the current state.

I hate when people compare Scathe to Reprise.
They are drastically different.
If you absolutely can not cast as BLM, no matter what, scathe is no where near the DPS loss Reprise is.
For Scathe to be similar, it would have to actively lessen your AF/UI timer on top of the time wasted not casting.

An "actual" Verscathe should have been made. Something with a crappy 30 potency, and thats it.
Weak enough to try and land a hard cast, but something in case its absolutely impossible.

(Scathe isnt the cause of a BLMs DPS loss, but the lack of using GCDs is. In the case of Reprise, not only is it filling the GCD void like scathe, its also taking away from a resource thats too valuable. Scathes MP cost doesn't cause the same issue. (But to be fair, this might not be true anymore, as i havnt done any math on current BLM, nor looked into it.))

I think the point with it being on global cool down is so that they can manage the damage output of the job. But that now just makes the move something you really shouldn't ever need to use. If it's meant to be a mobility skill, then this would imply that you're just hanging out in melee range, and if you are, the movement you usually need to do most would be to disengage from the boss, and you already have your jump back skill for that.

If they wanted to make it it something use only sometimes use, they could eliminate the damage, consume some of our black/white mana and convert that into MP. Not the best solution, but it would solve the problem of a skill that I don't even have on my hotbar because of how useless it is while also giving red mages some native mana management.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I think the point with it being on global cool down is so that they can manage the damage output of the job. But that now just makes the move something you really shouldn't ever need to use. If it's meant to be a mobility skill, then this would imply that you're just hanging out in melee range, and if you are, the movement you usually need to do most would be to disengage from the boss, and you already have your jump back skill for that.

If they wanted to make it it something use only sometimes use, they could eliminate the damage, consume some of our black/white mana and convert that into MP. Not the best solution, but it would solve the problem of a skill that I don't even have on my hotbar because of how useless it is while also giving red mages some native mana management.

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Having a skill that eat mana for MP..

I dunno, Lucid Dream is juuust shy of being enough. The only time you should need more MP is after being raised or having raise someone.. and in one of the case, your mana going to be 0/0 anyway. I feel with some tweaks to spell MP cost would be enough and then you wouldn't see any use of that version of the skill, because B&W mana is really a precious ressource DPS-wise..

That said, having a job mechanic a bit more advance than fill and deplete would be awesome

What I want to see is a few things.

1. It spends 10 of your highest man
2. It restores 400 mana
3. Pot increased slightly
4. Give it 3 charges on a 20 second cooldown.

1. Gives value when using it to fix your mana levels. Like if you have too much of one mana or you want to swap top mana for because you already have a proc on your lower mana.

2. We have mana problems, this would help.

3. The spell should feel good to use and it is currently just weak.

4. This keeps people from just spamming it and allows it to be used when needed for mobility.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

What I want to see is a few things.

1. It spends 10 of your highest man
2. It restores 400 mana
3. Pot increased slightly
4. Give it 3 charges on a 20 second cooldown.

1. Gives value when using it to fix your mana levels. Like if you have too much of one mana or you want to swap top mana for because you already have a proc on your lower mana.

2. We have mana problems, this would help.

3. The spell should feel good to use and it is currently just weak.

4. This keeps people from just spamming it and allows it to be used when needed for mobility.

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This is actually a really good idea.

I vote for this change haha

I'm partial to just having it apply Dualcast, perhaps a potency adjustment as well, but a free Dualcast would mitigate the cost somewhat, continue to help with mobility, and be worth a 40~60 potency boost alone. A recast adjustment might not be amiss either, 1.5 down from 2.2, bring it in line with the other Enchanted skills.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

I hate when people compare Scathe to Reprise.
They are drastically different.

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People make that comparison because that is what it was intended to be. The fact that it was designed as a Verscathe, yet fails at even that, is testament to how much attention Red Mage got in the 5.0 adjustments.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

What I want to see is a few things.

1. It spends 10 of your highest man
2. It restores 400 mana
3. Pot increased slightly
4. Give it 3 charges on a 20 second cooldown.

1. Gives value when using it to fix your mana levels. Like if you have too much of one mana or you want to swap top mana for because you already have a proc on your lower mana.

2. We have mana problems, this would help.

3. The spell should feel good to use and it is currently just weak.

4. This keeps people from just spamming it and allows it to be used when needed for mobility.

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Me likey this!!

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Originally Posted by Trayes

What I want to see is a few things.

1. It spends 10 of your highest man
2. It restores 400 mana
3. Pot increased slightly
4. Give it 3 charges on a 20 second cooldown.

1. Gives value when using it to fix your mana levels. Like if you have too much of one mana or you want to swap top mana for because you already have a proc on your lower mana.

2. We have mana problems, this would help.

3. The spell should feel good to use and it is currently just weak.

4. This keeps people from just spamming it and allows it to be used when needed for mobility.

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This is a great start for an idea. Love the direction this is going.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Having a skill that eat mana for MP..

I dunno, Lucid Dream is juuust shy of being enough. The only time you should need more MP is after being raised or having raise someone.. and in one of the case, your mana going to be 0/0 anyway. I feel with some tweaks to spell MP cost would be enough and then you wouldn't see any use of that version of the skill, because B&W mana is really a precious ressource DPS-wise..

That said, having a job mechanic a bit more advance than fill and deplete would be awesome

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Right after being raised would be tough, yeah. I only suggested it since I do think the job needs SOMETHING to help with mana.... the problem with Lucid is if you did die, it's probably on cooldown when you get raised so you could be quite a while struggling with having any mana. Giving skills that can reduce the dependance on lucid means you can have that tool available to you if you do need to raise or if you did die.

There are more straight forward solutions too... like I would think that even removing the costs from Verflare, Verholy, and Scorch (since you have to use them after an enchanted combo anyway) would make a big difference considering those spells are 500 mana each. Or just having any enchanted melee move restore mana when used.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Right after being raised would be tough, yeah. I only suggested it since I do think the job needs SOMETHING to help with mana.... the problem with Lucid is if you did die, it's probably on cooldown when you get raised so you could be quite a while struggling with having any mana. Giving skills that can reduce the dependance on lucid means you can have that tool available to you if you do need to raise or if you did die.

There are more straight forward solutions too... like I would think that even removing the costs from Verflare, Verholy, and Scorch (since you have to use them after an enchanted combo anyway) would make a big difference considering those spells are 500 mana each. Or just having any enchanted melee move restore mana when used.

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It really suck to run out of mana while doing your single target rotation.. I don't like that Lucid dreaming is now an integral part of our rotation.

On a side note I'd want to see a 2x or 3x Stack on acceleration to make up for Impactful proc getting culled..

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Originally Posted by Duskane

either a OGCD or it gives us a dual cast

the move needs to be way more than just verscathe such a joke of a move

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You know, if you made it dualcast and cost as much mana, or slightly less mana, as you'd get from dualcasting E.G. verthunder, it would start to be usable since it's still expensive (you're not really gaining resources) but usable (you're not really losing resources). It keeps your damage rolling but will still cost you.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

I hate when people compare Scathe to Reprise.
They are drastically different.
If you absolutely can not cast as BLM, no matter what, scathe is no where near the DPS loss Reprise is.
For Scathe to be similar, it would have to actively lessen your AF/UI timer on top of the time wasted not casting.

An "actual" Verscathe should have been made. Something with a crappy 30 potency, and thats it.
Weak enough to try and land a hard cast, but something in case its absolutely impossible.

(Scathe isnt the cause of a BLMs DPS loss, but the lack of using GCDs is. In the case of Reprise, not only is it filling the GCD void like scathe, its also taking away from a resource thats too valuable. Scathes MP cost doesn't cause the same issue. (But to be fair, this might not be true anymore, as i havnt done any math on current BLM, nor looked into it.))

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Just to correct you here, Scathe absolutely is a massive DPS loss. Your average fire 4 is 540 potency, Scathe is 100 with a 20% chance for 200 (so assume 120 for the sake of normalizing it). You lose 420 potency to use scathe once because you're directly competing with getting more fire 4s downrange. Even if you use it during UI, it's still delaying when you can get more fire 4s out.

In a technical sense, it's costing you 1 GCD worth of average class potency to salvage at best 200 potency (usually 100), but costing you an extra fire 4 at worst, which would be a massive DPS loss because of how singularly strong Fire 4 actually is. Even if you factor in the loss of black/white mana from using Enchanted Reprise, it would still only be in the 300-500 potency range while still salvaging 220 potency. I don't know how much potency 10 black and 10 white mana constitutes towards the RDM burst combo, but it should be incredibly and directly comparable to Scathe in terms of overall potency loss.

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Originally Posted by Drayos

Tbh prolly easiest fix would be.

Take away its Cost. And make another OGCD out of it, maybe on a 10 sec CD..

Add a small white and black mana gain from it c6 and flèche. (like 10 of Each)

Take Verflare and Verholy off GCD.

Allow us to do what we do now but abit faster, this would add Engagement as it'd be a Faster rotation, we'd see our Finishers More, Rejuvernise the Old Rotation reducing how stale it will feel to some Players, without adding anymore additional abilities, creating a higher Skill Curve, or Creating Unintended Gameplay, and it'd be a buff in itself so no need to try adjust any numbers :P (unless we come out alittle too powerful ofcourse)

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I don't even get the point of half of these fixes, to be honest.

The problem with making more instant skills oGCD is that you reduce the job's mobility, since we spend a greater number of GCDs casting as a result rather than having options to keep cycling the GCD while moving. Turning Reprise into a free oGCD just removes any impact it may have had from the rotation in favor of just pumping more damage in. While this may sound counterintuitive on the surface, the suggestion in the OP to have it retain a cost is actually beneficial to us, since right now overcapping Mana is a pure damage loss, where having a tool to dump that Mana before you overcap would allow you to salvage a gain.

It wouldn't affect our behavior with Engagement at all, since even as a "faster" rotation Engagement would have the same CD and Displacement would still have more output.

Also, 10 of each mana per oGCD is far from "small", especially when you're discussing adding a free 10s oGCD on top of a 25s and a 35s. In one minute that's 6 casts of Reprise, up to 3 of Fleche and 2 of Contre-Sixte -- 90-110 extra Red Mana per minute, which would over double our number of melee combos and lead to a significant DPS gain. Please don't be throwing out numbers on our main rotation when you have no intention of doing the math yourself.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

I don't know how much potency 10 black and 10 white mana constitutes towards the RDM burst combo, but it should be incredibly and directly comparable to Scathe in terms of overall potency loss.

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Last check on Enchanted Reprise was that it's a loss so long as it's below about 255-ish potency, between the average value of its GCD and the average value of Mana consumption. If we assume we lose about 40 potency on average per cast, it's still a fraction of the loss Scathe is at over 400 potency lost per cast in AF, and the value of its delay in UI.

So MaraD_ is right that the two are drastically different, but for reasons that aren't the point she was trying to make.

Red Mage improvements I'd like to see:

- Buff the potency of enchanted reprise so that it becomes your go-to whenever you're moving and you have no ogcd or dual cast available.

- Give corps-a-corps an additional charge so Red Mage can have a gap closer that isn't just used for their combo. The cooldown is too long to be used for anything but.

- Buff engagement to 200 potency so jumping back isn't always preferred. Let displacement be an option to quickly jump away, not something we're forced to use for maximum dps. Let it be a choice.

- Reduce all MP costs by 20% to go back to the same MP cost ratio we had in StormBlood. Except verraise, leave that as is.

Do those changes and the job would be nearly perfect imo.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

Last check on Enchanted Reprise was that it's a loss so long as it's below about 255-ish potency, between the average value of its GCD and the average value of Mana consumption. If we assume we lose about 40 potency on average per cast, it's still a fraction of the loss Scathe is at over 400 potency lost per cast in AF, and the value of its delay in UI.

So MaraD_ is right that the two are drastically different, but for reasons that aren't the point she was trying to make.

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To be specific, the skill is a loss even at its original 300 potency. 255 potency is the potency it needs to even be worth looking at as opposed to the regular spell combo. It converts mana from a potency gain to a potency drain which needs to be taken into account when calculating the loss of potency as well.

It's not 400 potency loss, no, but it's significant in its own ways.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

You know, if you made it dualcast and cost as much mana, or slightly less mana, as you'd get from dualcasting E.G. verthunder, it would start to be usable since it's still expensive (you're not really gaining resources) but usable (you're not really losing resources). It keeps your damage rolling but will still cost you.



Just to correct you here, Scathe absolutely is a massive DPS loss. Your average fire 4 is 540 potency, Scathe is 100 with a 20% chance for 200 (so assume 120 for the sake of normalizing it). You lose 420 potency to use scathe once because you're directly competing with getting more fire 4s downrange. Even if you use it during UI, it's still delaying when you can get more fire 4s out.

In a technical sense, it's costing you 1 GCD worth of average class potency to salvage at best 200 potency (usually 100), but costing you an extra fire 4 at worst, which would be a massive DPS loss because of how singularly strong Fire 4 actually is. Even if you factor in the loss of black/white mana from using Enchanted Reprise, it would still only be in the 300-500 potency range while still salvaging 220 potency. I don't know how much potency 10 black and 10 white mana constitutes towards the RDM burst combo, but it should be incredibly and directly comparable to Scathe in terms of overall potency loss.

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Im not comparing potency lost.
Im comparing "cost".
a BLM unable to land that extra fire4, due to movement, already lost the damage, regardless if they fill in the difference with scathe or not.
The secondary cost of Scathe is the MP.

If a RDM absolutely cant cast another spell, they too will lose potency for no spells cast (much less potency than a Fire4, obviously losing fire4 is drastic)
BUT if they use reprise, they lose 20 mana.
Which, in SB 1 mana is 4.5 DPS, and can go upwards of 9DPS per mana (if im remembering correctly, but i might not be)
so thats anywhere between 90-180, depending on whats the correct number.
BUT the actual value of mana has gone up, with another spell tacked onto the end of RDMs combo, since the spell also adds mana, and does more dmg than ver holy/flare in potency.
(plus some other issues)
So depending on when it lines up, it might be possible that it does 0 dps. (i forget how much dps reprise does off hand too.)
(Someone suggested it was possible to do actual negative DPS, but i couldnt get info from that person, to know if they are correct or not)

So in theory, whats the point of a skill, that doesnt do any dps at all? (IF, and a big IF, it does 0 DPS. I ve tried to do the math, but keep getting off numbers, because im not sure the best way to calculate it. someone elses number were much closer to the actual results, and so i was relying on their info for SB)

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Red Mage improvements I'd like to see:

- Buff the potency of enchanted reprise so that it becomes your go-to whenever you're moving and you have no ogcd or dual cast available.

- Give corps-a-corps an additional charge so Red Mage can have a gap closer that isn't just used for their combo. The cooldown is too long to be used for anything but.

- Buff engagement to 200 potency so jumping back isn't always preferred. Let displacement be an option to quickly jump away, not something we're forced to use for maximum dps. Let it be a choice.

- Reduce all MP costs by 20% to go back to the same MP cost ratio we had in StormBlood. Except verraise, leave that as is.

Do those changes and the job would be nearly perfect imo.

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I mostly hit like for the reprise.
I actually disagree with the disengage, not because i dont want it, but because RDM was designed to have a "different" skill set. Its easier to play, but does have the unique factor of being the only DPS that has to try and fit in a jump back, to maximize its DPS. Its part of its uniqueness, and its easy playstyle easily makes up for it. (plus i personally find it extremely easy to work with, but maybe im just used to it. I can tell if i have enough room or not, w/o having to test it 1st. my raid group was always saying it was so daring in tight spots, but im like, nope, imma do et!)

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

To be specific, the skill is a loss even at its original 300 potency. 255 potency is the potency it needs to even be worth looking at as opposed to the regular spell combo. It converts mana from a potency gain to a potency drain which needs to be taken into account when calculating the loss of potency as well.

It's not 400 potency loss, no, but it's significant in its own ways.

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Yes, but my point is that if you ever use Scathe in Astral Fire, you directly sacrifice casting a fire 4 to do it, which is a massive loss in potency for doing that. Because of that, it is comparable to Enchanted Reprise because you're actively choosing to sacrifice DPS to actively salvage the GCD, and it sucks for everyone involved to use these abilities.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

snippy snap

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I just ran the numbers, and 20 mana is approximately 283.75 potency. So you give up 284 potency in mana plus your "standard GCD" to salvage 220 potency and the GCD. It stings, and depending on how different it is from your average GCD (not to mention your timings being messed up) it can sting more, but that puts it in similar territory to Scathe for using these abilities to salvage GCDs.

The only difference is Red Mage doesn't have remotely close to as manay isntant casts as BLM can have on demand if it needs it between Xenoglossy, Firestarter, Thundercloud, and Swift/Triplecast. And Black mage doesn't care half as much about its rotation's timing being messed up as a Red Mage.

But the point stands, the 2 are directly comparable because they both throw away substantial amounts of damage.

EDIT: To add, I didn't factor in the mana you would have gotten from Verholy/Verflare/Scorch, so that will throw up the potency loss by 1/8th of the extra added mana, approximately. Which is about 62 potency worth in opportunity cost, so you're looking at about 346 potency lost from using it to salvage 220 and the GCD. It's literally in the same ballpark as Scathe when used during AF.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Yes, but my point is that if you ever use Scathe in Astral Fire, you directly sacrifice casting a fire 4 to do it, which is a massive loss in potency for doing that. Because of that, it is comparable to Enchanted Reprise because you're actively choosing to sacrifice DPS to actively salvage the GCD, and it sucks for everyone involved to use these abilities.

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I'm not disagreeing. If it sounded like I was, I apologize. Your point is the same as mine more or less--E Reprise doesn't cost an active 400, but it does cost a significant amount for a Red Mage to use so it's in the same zone of "Don't look at this pretend it doesn't exist."

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I just ran the numbers, and 20 mana is approximately 283.75 potency.

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Mathtime! :D Citation.

Standard PPS for RDM is 112 (no proc) to 116 (proc) at 2.5 GCD.
The melee combo's PPS is 226.73 PPS. This means 160 mana is worth 110.4 PPS when using the melee combo due to opportunity cost of not doing the standard cast dualcast while bursting. So mana when put towards the melee combo is worth 1,115.4 potency / 160, or 9.14 potency per mana.

Enchanted Reprise's PPS is 100 (220potency / 2.2s). To use it is a loss of 16 PPS over the cast dualcast standard. 20 mana is being used for a drop in PPS by 12, so 20 mana = -35.93 potency in the case of E. Reprise. Mana put toward E. Reprise is worth -1.8 Potency per Mana.

You're losing 10.94 PPM for 20 mana, so the cost comes out to 218.8 potency from the mana alone.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

I'm not disagreeing. If it sounded like I was, I apologize. Your point is the same as mine more or less--E Reprise doesn't cost an active 400, but it does cost a significant amount for a Red Mage to use so it's in the same zone of "Don't look at this pretend it doesn't exist."

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Or "Reserve for actually emergencies. Also, YA DUN GOOFED!"

I tried to math it out, it comes out to about 346 potency lost in mana and the opportunity cost of delaying the melee burst phase, and whatever the difference between your average potency per second and Reprise' potency per second. Which makes it about the same or slightly favorable compared to popping a Scathe in AF, since Scathe in AF is directly denying you the use of a fire 4 and nothing else (unless you screw up and F4 instead of Despair at the end). It's like they copied Scathe and said "Let's make it as bad as this to use." So it's used in extreme emergencies since salvaging the GCD will typically save more DPS than the opportunity cost would imply, but it still sucks.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

Im not comparing potency lost.
Im comparing "cost".
a BLM unable to land that extra fire4, due to movement, already lost the damage, regardless if they fill in the difference with scathe or not.
The secondary cost of Scathe is the MP.

If a RDM absolutely cant cast another spell, they too will lose potency for no spells cast (much less potency than a Fire4, obviously losing fire4 is drastic)
BUT if they use reprise, they lose 20 mana.
Which, in SB 1 mana is 4.5 DPS, and can go upwards of 9DPS per mana (if im remembering correctly, but i might not be)
so thats anywhere between 90-180, depending on whats the correct number.
BUT the actual value of mana has gone up, with another spell tacked onto the end of RDMs combo, since the spell also adds mana, and does more dmg than ver holy/flare in potency.
(plus some other issues)
So depending on when it lines up, it might be possible that it does 0 dps. (i forget how much dps reprise does off hand too.)
(Someone suggested it was possible to do actual negative DPS, but i couldnt get info from that person, to know if they are correct or not)

So in theory, whats the point of a skill, that doesnt do any dps at all? (IF, and a big IF, it does 0 DPS. I ve tried to do the math, but keep getting off numbers, because im not sure the best way to calculate it. someone elses number were much closer to the actual results, and so i was relying on their info for SB)



I mostly hit like for the reprise.
I actually disagree with the disengage, not because i dont want it, but because RDM was designed to have a "different" skill set. Its easier to play, but does have the unique factor of being the only DPS that has to try and fit in a jump back, to maximize its DPS. Its part of its uniqueness, and its easy playstyle easily makes up for it. (plus i personally find it extremely easy to work with, but maybe im just used to it. I can tell if i have enough room or not, w/o having to test it 1st. my raid group was always saying it was so daring in tight spots, but im like, nope, imma do et!)

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I just find the in and out gimmick to get old fast. For most difficult content it's best to stay grouped up together right behind the boss. Jumping around all over the place is just silly and I hate that it's required for optimum play.

I edited my last response with some research and math.

I'll also cite another Balance source regarding current E. Reprise:
"Because of this, outside of extremely edge cases like being able to get in a final instant attack when you otherwise would not be able to, it is forced into exactly one use case: when you need to move for a couple seconds but can’t manipulate your slidecasting or dualcasts to allow this, and can afford being set back on your mana gauge. If you need only a minor adjustment, such as moving for ~0.5s, it is strictly better to stop casting entirely, rather than use Reprise." (Citation)

Your potency per mana calculations are a bit wrong. It should be 14.1875 potency per mana, not 10. Remember, verholy/flare and scorch are all part of your PPM, and the mana it would give being delayed also costs you potency in opportunity cost. The point is it's an exceptionally huge loss of DPS. BLM can justify the occasional scathe because the timing on AF outright denies you the ability to guarantee you will get that fire 4 if you delay, but RDM have the luxury of delaying indefinitely at the loss of PPS due to GCD loss.

It's still a worst case scenario, it sucks for everyone involved.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Your potency per mana calculations are a bit wrong. It should be 14.1875 potency per mana, not 10. Remember, verholy/flare and scorch are all part of your PPM, and the mana it would give being delayed also costs you potency in opportunity cost. The point is it's an exceptionally huge loss of DPS. BLM can justify the occasional scathe because the timing on AF outright denies you the ability to guarantee you will get that fire 4 if you delay, but RDM have the luxury of delaying indefinitely at the loss of PPS due to GCD loss.

It's still a worst case scenario, it sucks for everyone involved.

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I cited Turing's numbers in my calculations, and they do take note of the potency rebates that the combo gives. Although on the sheet they account for it by saying the combo's end cost is 122 mana, the numbers I gleaned wound up the same as theirs.

I'm also less arguing the point and more talking the math, because the math is fun to me.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

in opportunity cost.

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If you want to talk about opportunity cost, the potency per mana is around 6.something because the entire combo costs 163 mana, opportunity costs included.