What is Missing in 2.0 - Ways to Level classes

I know we don't have all the details about 2.0 but I keep feeling that there is still a huge issues with XIV when it comes to character progression. I feel like we have very few ways to gain levels. They are:

• Leves
• Sidequests
• Behest
• Dungeons
• Caravan Escort

Leves - I hate to say this, but I have been thinking about WoW and something they do really well is breadcrumb the player. You go from one hub to the next doing quests that teach the player about the people and the lore of the world. I get that most of the quests are essentially the same, go kill 10 xyz things. In XIV you just repeat leves, behest, and dungeons over and over. At lease Blizzard covers up their grind with new locations enemies and lore as the player progresses through to highest level. WoW has thousands of quests and XIV has maybe 100. I am not saying that questing is going to fix XIV's leveling. I guess I just want more variety in how we level.

Sidequests - A joke if you consider them a way to level your classes, you can only do them once and it seems like are more about getting some gear for free and to teach you some lore. All in all they seem like a waste of time.

Behest - Super grindy and seem pointless, I haven't done in months and months

Dungeons - More low level dungeons would be nice. All we have is 1 R15 and 1 R25.

Caravan Escort - I have only done this to grind company seals at R50, so no leveling here. I know I could do the lower level one maybe to get seals and level.


Upcoming in XIV 2.0

• Hamlet Defense - I am not sure how Hamlet Defense is going to play into leveling our characters but it sounds interesting.
  
• PvP Collisium and Frontlines - I don't imagine this will have anything to do with leveling your classes.
  
• Crystal Tower and Labyrinth - Sounds like endgame, so no leveling
  
• Wondering Odin - Sounds like engame, no leveling.
  
• Primal Battles - more endgame or just aquiring cool gear, no leveling.

All in all it just seems like we are still going to lack ways to level out classes in 2.0 and it will be another reason why people won't be attracted to playing FFXIV.

Because in FFXIV you use parties to play. That's the main leveling tool that you left out.

Yeah, it's a party based lvling system. Quests are not meant to lvl your character and I personally like that. In XI Quests didn't even give XP, they were lore only and I liked that as well. I tend to skip all the quests in most MMOs due to them being only a cover up for lvling, while in FFXI they were pure story and I did them cause I wanted to, not to lvl my character.

It's what I liked about XI as well. You play in parties to progress, which at the same time teaches you how to play your class/job in a group and therefore prepares you for endgame.

You missed Garlean Empire battle (1.22) and Garlean Empire Legatus battle (1.23)

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Originally Posted by Kerath

Caravan Escort - I have only done this to grind company seals at R50, so no leveling here. I know I could do the lower level one maybe to get seals and level.

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The trick is to change your class in the right moment. The same with primal battles. Don't talk to the quest npc after the kill with your level 50 class.

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Originally Posted by Felis

You missed Garlean Empire battle (1.22) and Garlean Empire Legatus battle (1.23)

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the Story needs to make a huge jump in 1.22 and 1.23 though, otherwise it would feel very "abrupt" fighting against them without any sort of "pre encounters".

I want to see more Garlean Empire involvement in Eorzea itself...like camps building up at the borders and stuff like that.

Personally I think the Dalamud thing getting bigger and threatening red is awesome, just keep that coming in regular intervals.

I would love to see a large story-related quest system, similar to WoW. It is already possible to solo all the way through this game via leves (in fact, I can do so faster than leveling in a party), and I doubt they will revert to the leveling system in XI. Most people don't have that kind of time to dedicate in one sitting. This is perhaps the biggest thing I find lacking in the game, and I really do hope they are able to work on it.

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Originally Posted by Rousseau

It is already possible to solo all the way through this game via leves (in fact, I can do so faster than leveling in a party)....

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I highly doubt that. Lvled my PUG from 40 to 45 in a matter of 3h doing spiritbond PT...can't beat that with leves, not even nearly.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

I highly doubt that. Lvled my PUG from 40 to 45 in a matter of 3h doing spiritbond PT...can't beat that with leves, not even nearly.

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It took me about an hour to go from 48 to 50, so that is about the same. Perhaps I am just extremely efficient.

I agree with RyuNin, the main way to level in XIV is to use parties, but I also agree with you in respect that we the players need to be moved from hub to hub in order for party play to stay fresh and new. Not to bring up a dirty topic, but in XI I enjoyed going out and levelling in a party even if I was just whacking reskinned mobs, because the areas were different and it seemed fresh and exciting for me to do so, but that could just be me.

There was a whole big thread about giving us different areas to level somewhere on these forums, it was actually a hot topic for a while, but I can't for the life of me remember wtf it was called lol.

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Originally Posted by Rousseau

It took me about an hour to go from 48 to 50, so that is about the same. Perhaps I am just extremely efficient.

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I am interested on the number...48-50 almost 200k exp right? roughly leves takes 5-10 minutes (counting from taking the leves on aether), lets say you need 180k , on 1 hour you can do 6 - 12 leves. on 6 leves you need average 30k exp, on 12 leves you need 15k exp... I never saw one leves can net above 10k exp...

please do correct me

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Originally Posted by Aion

I am interested on the number...48-50 almost 200k exp right? roughly leves takes 5-10 minutes (counting from taking the leves on aether), lets say you need 180k , on 1 hour you can do 6 - 12 leves. on 6 leves you need average 30k exp, on 12 leves you need 15k exp... I never saw one leves can net above 10k exp...

please do correct me

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I get about 50k exp per 4 leves post-patch. I grab four leves, teleport to the camp, run them quickly (sometimes in less than 5mins each, depending on the leve and my luck), return, rinse and repeat. It may have taken me a bit more than an hour, but it wasn't much, and it didn't seem like a long time to me.

By the time I tried to find a party, I just don't find it to be worth it. When I level on my own, I can take a break if I need to, as long as it isn't in the middle of a leve. If something comes up, I can stop and log out. There is really no reason for me to level via parties most of the time. All in all, it is more convenient to level solo, and if it is taking a bit longer, I don't notice, and I don't really care. I go with a party if one presents itself in LS and I am bored, or if it's for a quest or dungeon or something. Otherwise, leves all the way.

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Originally Posted by Rousseau

I get about 50k exp per 4 leves post-patch.

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Your math must be way off.

50k/4=12.5k/leve

Finishing a leve usually net you between 4.5-6k post-patch. Leaves an amount of 6k per leve through mob killing. Usual leves make you kill between 8-12 mobs. 6k/12=500XP, most leves make you kill 8 mobs though 6k/8=750XP per mob.

In order to get that amount of XP per mob you'd have to do R40 leves on 4/5 star, which stretches the time to finish them, meaning less than 5min per leve not gonna work. Let's say 8min per leve. 8min per leve = 32min for 4 leves(one set of leves in a camp). Teleporting back, Returning, walking etc, another 8minutes. 40min for 4 leves to get those 50k you are talking about. To get from 48 to 50 this means 160minutes, which equals almost 3h...

Did you switch timezones while playing?

PS: Spiritbond PT nets me 100k an hour easily...

I agree with the op, partially. While I don't want a game like wow or other theme parkish game, there is something missing while leveling.

I feel so disconnected from eorzea and the environment as a whole. The zones are bland, I teleport to some camp to kill things and that is it. There is little sense of adventure and lore. Lore is there, it just isn't done very well (IMO) with leveling.

I know some of this will be remedied in V2, I have my fingers crossed they deliver.

How to fix this:

• Gap between camps needs to be 5 levels
• Leves capped at +6 base level
• Behest happens twice as often, with actually scary monsters and real rewards
• Guilds start handing out repeatable quests/leves at camps, similar to Grand Company leves
• More grand company leves
• Grand Company entry allowed at level 20 or 15
• Single monster/boss leves
• Monster/camp motifs need to change, fighting way too many squirrels, chigoes, and funguar at low levels

General idea is that you want more variety and a more linear progression through the zones like most MMOs have.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

Your math must be way off.

50k/4=12.5k/leve

Finishing a leve usually net you between 4.5-6k post-patch. Leaves an amount of 6k per leve through mob killing. Usual leves make you kill between 8-12 mobs. 6k/12=500XP, most leves make you kill 8 mobs though 6k/8=750XP per mob.

In order to get that amount of XP per mob you'd have to do R40 leves on 4/5 star, which stretches the time to finish them, meaning less than 5min per leve not gonna work. Let's say 8min per leve. 8min per leve = 32min for 4 leves(one set of leves in a camp). Teleporting back, Returning, walking etc, another 8minutes. 40min for 4 leves to get those 50k you are talking about. To get from 48 to 50 this means 160minutes, which equals almost 3h...

Did you switch timezones while playing?

PS: Spiritbond PT nets me 100k an hour easily...

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I don't know what to tell you, dude. Either you aren't very good at leves, or CNJ is hax (which I admit it probably is). I did everything on 4 stars from level 47, and I sometimes did them under 5mins, no problem. I AoE everything and they go down pretty fast. I do net that much experience, and rested bonus makes it even more insane.

I'm not sure why it bothers you so much. It works for me, and that's all that matters. You can feel free to keep partying if you want, and I'll keep doing my leves. Everyone is happy, ne?

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Originally Posted by Rousseau

I don't know what to tell you, dude. Either you aren't very good at leves, or CNJ is hax (which I admit it probably is). I did everything on 4 stars from level 47, and I sometimes did them under 5mins, no problem. I AoE everything and they go down pretty fast. I do net that much experience, and rested bonus makes it even more insane.

I'm not sure why it bothers you so much. It works for me, and that's all that matters. You can feel free to keep partying if you want, and I'll keep doing my leves. Everyone is happy, ne?

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Well there we have it...CNJ...same goes for THM...do the same with a Meele Class, that won't work. I don't mind you getting that much XP on leves in that amount of time, but fact is, that's not the average amount of XP/leve compared to time spent and the only thing that bothers me is people spreading falste statements, making other, less experienced people believe that.

You could get 200k XP/leve if there was any way to exploit that, just don't sell it as the "regular" amount of XP anybody would get. that's the thing that bothered me on your post ;)

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

Well there we have it...CNJ...same goes for THM...do the same with a Meele Class, that won't work. I don't mind you getting that much XP on leves in that amount of time, but fact is, that's not the average amount of XP/leve compared to time spent and the only thing that bothers me is people spreading falste statements, making other, less experienced people believe that.

You could get 200k XP/leve if there was any way to exploit that, just don't sell it as the "regular" amount of XP anybody would get. that's the thing that bothered me on your post ;)

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I get between 9k-12k on my pug for leves post patch. 500-600xp per mob without chain is just nuts

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Originally Posted by Kerath

I know we don't have all the details about 2.0 but I keep feeling that there is still a huge issues with XIV when it comes to character progression. I feel like we have very few ways to gain levels. They are:

• Leves
• Sidequests
• Behest
• Dungeons
• Caravan Escort

Leves - I hate to say this, but I have been thinking about WoW and something they do really well is breadcrumb the player. You go from one hub to the next doing quests that teach the player about the people and the lore of the world. I get that most of the quests are essentially the same, go kill 10 xyz things. In XIV you just repeat leves, behest, and dungeons over and over. At lease Blizzard covers up their grind with new locations enemies and lore as the player progresses through to highest level. WoW has thousands of quests and XIV has maybe 100. I am not saying that questing is going to fix XIV's leveling. I guess I just want more variety in how we level.

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I think Yoshi said in 2.0 they plan to have tutorial quest which will send new players from one quest to the next, I don't know if he plans to do this through out the whole game, but agree that it is a good way to lead players to new area's.

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Sidequests - A joke if you consider them a way to level your classes, you can only do them once and it seems like are more about getting some gear for free and to teach you some lore. All in all they seem like a waste of time.

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I agree that they could do with better XP rewards, although overall the leveling curve in this game is far too high so they would need to counter-balance it if they did do that.

That being said I really enjoy reading all the quest lore in this game, so I'm happy just to do them for that purpose.

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Behest - Super grindy and seem pointless, I haven't done in months and months

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No more grindy than leves, its basically a repeatable leve anyway.

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Dungeons - More low level dungeons would be nice. All we have is 1 R15 and 1 R25.

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I would love for this to become the main source of XP/levelling in 2.0, especially considering them adding a content finder, I'm sure plenty of the players who are opposed to "instances" and "content finder" will say and think otherwise.

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Caravan Escort - I have only done this to grind company seals at R50, so no leveling here. I know I could do the lower level one maybe to get seals and level.

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I've not done this yet but I would consider the main reason for doing it was grand company seals and not the XP.

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Upcoming in XIV 2.0

• Hamlet Defense - I am not sure how Hamlet Defense is going to play into leveling our characters but it sounds interesting.
  
• PvP Collisium and Frontlines - I don't imagine this will have anything to do with leveling your classes.
  
• Crystal Tower and Labyrinth - Sounds like endgame, so no leveling
  
• Wondering Odin - Sounds like engame, no leveling.
  
• Primal Battles - more endgame or just aquiring cool gear, no leveling.

All in all it just seems like we are still going to lack ways to level out classes in 2.0 and it will be another reason why people won't be attracted to playing FFXIV.

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The only one I can see giving good XP and levelling would be Hamlet Defence, I am really hoping it will be a good source for both battle classes and DoL and DoH as well.

I DON'T want quests that make you go all over the place and is nothing but linear. So boring. Tera has this for "leveling" and it's very boring.

I love parties leveling up by random mobs.

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Originally Posted by Noodle

I feel so disconnected from eorzea and the environment as a whole. The zones are bland, I teleport to some camp to kill things and that is it. There is little sense of adventure and lore. Lore is there, it just isn't done very well (IMO) with leveling.

I know some of this will be remedied in V2, I have my fingers crossed they deliver.

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Kill quests won't realistically make you feel more connected with this world. If leves don't, (if you even read them) then you definitely won't feel more connected by killing 5x boars to gain 72 levels in quest.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

Well there we have it...CNJ...same goes for THM...do the same with a Meele Class, that won't work. I don't mind you getting that much XP on leves in that amount of time, but fact is, that's not the average amount of XP/leve compared to time spent and the only thing that bothers me is people spreading falste statements, making other, less experienced people believe that.

You could get 200k XP/leve if there was any way to exploit that, just don't sell it as the "regular" amount of XP anybody would get. that's the thing that bothered me on your post ;)

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I'm not making anyone believe anything, and anyone who believes anything immediately, without giving it thought or trying it out on their own, is only deceiving themselves. What is good for the goose may not be good for the gander. I simply pointed out that leves work great for me, and they are a VERY viable option to level all the way to 50, regardless of whether or not they happen to be faster. They have just been better for me, so far. That's all.

I sort of agree with the OP, but mainly only up to lvl 40. Once you hit 40, you go to strongholds and in 2 days you can be 50. Other than plvl, there is nothing out there that is compelling me to party or solo up to 40.

Before some of the earliest patches, you could leve link and get a decent amount of exp at lower levels as a party. I am not sure if that is still worth it since i haven't tried it.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Kill quests won't realistically make you feel more connected with this world. If leves don't, (if you even read them) then you definitely won't feel more connected by killing 5x boars to gain 72 levels in quest.

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I agree, I never said kill quests or wow type quests were the solution to this problem. I read everything there is to read, don't really do leves anyways.

I'm a new player that's started a week or two ago and so far I'm level 32. Leveling hasn't been all that painful. Mainly I've just been doing leves, sidequests, the storyline, and whatever class quests etc are available. Here are my thoughts on what leveling up in FFXIV is currently like:

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Leves - I hate to say this, but I have been thinking about WoW and something they do really well is breadcrumb the player. You go from one hub to the next doing quests that teach the player about the people and the lore of the world. I get that most of the quests are essentially the same, go kill 10 xyz things. In XIV you just repeat leves, behest, and dungeons over and over. At lease Blizzard covers up their grind with new locations enemies and lore as the player progresses through to highest level. WoW has thousands of quests and XIV has maybe 100. I am not saying that questing is going to fix XIV's leveling. I guess I just want more variety in how we level.

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I agree with this. Leves don't need to be thrown away or anything, but some quests at each settlement would help advance the player as well as develop the world and lore, giving various zones some more unique personality. It doesn't have to be to the extent of WoW or games like it, but having both leves and a small quest hub element would give the game a lot more variety to playing and depth to the world. Quality>Quantity, as long as there are a few of a them I think it'd go a long way. This would also help a ton with making people feel more connected to the world.

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Sidequests - A joke if you consider them a way to level your classes, you can only do them once and it seems like are more about getting some gear for free and to teach you some lore. All in all they seem like a waste of time.

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I think these were pretty decent, though they could be better made and more interesting. I agree that it's more about getting some free gear, but the exp is a nice perk. I wouldn't count it out as it does diversify the leveling experience and provide a good lore and immersion element. One main point is that you cannot do these again, so trying to level a second class will be extremely boring. I think this is a problem that could be rectified somehow, atm the main solution is powerleveling.

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Behest - Super grindy and seem pointless, I haven't done in months and months

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Agreed, these are pretty pointless. There's a good idea here, but at the moment they aren't robust enough to bother with. There at least needs to be more incentive to do these. I also think content where you have to wait around for it to start is problematic because people don't want to wait or bother to check if they have to wait.

I think a problem is that you have to sign up beforehand. It should just start on it's own and you can join in whenever you want. None of this invisible monster crap where if you didn't sign up you can't see anything.

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Dungeons - More low level dungeons would be nice. All we have is 1 R15 and 1 R25.

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Agreed. To be honest the dungeons feel a little dinky, so they either should be beefed up a bit or add a few more. Personally I think you need to impress players early on, so having a pretty nice dungeon for low levels wouldn't hurt, I don't think Sposhae can really cut it for a lot of people. There could also be more quests added as a reason to visit each dungeon, perhaps as side missions. Like for Sposhae, maybe a quest to kill the crab boss, etc.

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Caravan Escort - I have only done this to grind company seals at R50, so no leveling here. I know I could do the lower level one maybe to get seals and level.

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Haven't done these yet. Personally I think the problem with these types of content are that you have to wait around for them to start. People don't want to wait around when they can just keep grinding and be more efficient. Otherwise the idea of content that anyone can join in on is nice.

I'll also just add that Grand Company leves are painfully bad. They need to either be improved, have the reward upped a bit, or just removed because they make the game feel bad. Preferably improve them, as it's a good reason to visit world dungeons, and they could also make them feel a little more dungeon like rather than just subzones.

One more note, the storyline is great and makes leveling a lot more enjoyable, but at the same time too much and it can start to feel like you're out of touch with other players.

TL;DR
-Add a small but robust quest hub element to add variety to leveling, flavor to the world, and story to each settlement. Quality>Quantity. This is not to dominate or totally drive the leveling experience, but to diversify it.
-More dungeons, with more quests for them, with improved quality to impress players early on.
-People are just going to skip over behests because of the timed increments and not being impressive enough. Guild Wars 2 is doing something like this but will have bosses whose difficulty will scale to however many people are participating. I think that's the direction FFXIV should go with this.

One more thing - just saying "in FFXIV you use parties to play" is a cop-out. You can do that in any game, and just killing new monsters in a new environment isn't going to convince people to pay a monthly fee. Overall though, the leveling experience for me has actually been pretty good and diverse. It just needs that extra oomph and some fixes, adjustments, and fine tuning.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

Yeah, it's a party based lvling system. Quests are not meant to lvl your character and I personally like that. In XI Quests didn't even give XP, they were lore only and I liked that as well.

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I agree. I liked the quest system in XI, but it wasn't there only for lore. Perhaps it didn't give you experience points, but it gave you Reputation, and the parallel main-storyline Mission system gave you Rank. All of these were exponentially more engaging and challenging that either sidequests or storyline quests in XIV, but also, through them you got access to most of the gameplay systems' content. So far, other than the job quests (and before the class-specific quests, that yielded guildmarks,) there's very little to gain (in exp, gil, or otherwise) from questing in XIV.

I agree with the OP, this is something that concerns me, as well.

When leves were reformed so that they would no longer be central leveling content, Yoshi-P announced this change in design philosophy:

"We still have some ways to go, but FINAL FANTASY XIV will gradually shift from being a grind-centric game to one that offers enjoyment for all playing styles and circumstances with its ever-expanding variety of content."

It sounded like FFXIV was going to move toward a leveling model that would bring it in line with modern MMOs. Players would be able to take on "large volumes of quests" that required actual interaction with NPCs. These quests were indeed described as a viable leveling tool when it was said that, "In addition to guildleves, sidequests will also be made to yield skill points upon completion, thus providing players with more avenues for advancement."

This obviously has not fully come to fruition, as quest rewards are minimal and the number of quests are insufficient to really progress your character. While the new leveling model implied perhaps some WoW-style or Aion-style questing (which I would personally love to see), that doesn't seem to be something that's coming anytime soon. Perhaps this is in the works for 2.0. I wouldn't be surprised if they held off until then, considering the large-scale changes to maps and zone progression that will be coming. A lot of the quest writing and hub setup would all change, with a lot work wasted.

The fact of the matter is, when leves were repositioned, there was no real alternative put in their place. Open-world monsters were tweaked to facilitate grind parties. While the repeatable monotony of leves didn't lend toward making them the best idea of central progression, at least they gave us a reason to go out into the world and complete a mission, rewarding gil, items, and faction reputation. But now, it's mindlessly killing the same monsters over and over a la FFXI. Often through powerleveling.

I am seriously hoping this was only done as a temporary solution for a game that lacked content, and will change in 2.0. Reason being, this is actually a large step backwards from the goal that Yoshi-P announced last June. What modern MMOs like WoW accomplish from their method of progression is disguising the grind behind story-driven content, dungeons and battlegrounds. You have fun and play the game and don't worry about the levels. Whereas FFXIV separates the grind from the story, so all you do is worry about gaining levels, making the game too much naked grind.

The OP really hit the nail on the head with many points about lack of leveling content, especially this:

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Originally Posted by Kerath

Leves - I hate to say this, but I have been thinking about WoW and something they do really well is breadcrumb the player. You go from one hub to the next doing quests that teach the player about the people and the lore of the world. I get that most of the quests are essentially the same, go kill 10 xyz things. In XIV you just repeat leves, behest, and dungeons over and over. At lease Blizzard covers up their grind with new locations enemies and lore as the player progresses through to highest level. WoW has thousands of quests and XIV has maybe 100. I am not saying that questing is going to fix XIV's leveling. I guess I just want more variety in how we level.

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Leves and sidequests really need some more love. Especially the sidequests. While it's fine for leves to be nitty gritty kill 10 xyz, quests can be so much more than that, and have multiple steps in a chain. Breadcrumbs lead us to dungeons, to hamlets, to other questhubs, and help facilitate progression. Many players are indeed questers, and this game just does not deliver in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Kerath

Behest - Super grindy and seem pointless, I haven't done in months and months

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Behests are actually a great idea, just implemented poorly. They remind me of a simpler version of Warhammer's public quests, which was a great way to spontaneously group people together to do open-world content. You could easily join, and weren't out of luck if the quest had already started (it was just likely you wouldn't get the best rewards due to lower contribution). Behests might be more successful if they took on more of these concepts, especially auto-grouping the participants and offering more substantial rewards for completion and contribution.

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Originally Posted by Kerath

Dungeons - More low level dungeons would be nice. All we have is 1 R15 and 1 R25.

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Absolutely. Dungeons are not just for endgame. These are great ways to gain exp, get a couple low-level pieces of gear, and teach players how to work together in a group. Give us more Shposhae and Toto-Rak! There should 3 instanced dungeons and 3 open-world dungeons for each level tier (I say three because it would provide one corresponding to each city-state). If this is put in place, I'm hoping the leveling speed will be slowed down a bit so that low-mid level content will be worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by Kerath

Hamlet Defense - I am not sure how Hamlet Defense is going to play into leveling our characters but it sounds interesting.

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I'm looking forward to these, hoping they will be similar to FFXI's Besieged.

I'm concerned that what will be the central means of level progression in 2.0 has not been made clear to us. Will we be moving more toward a quest/dungeon/public content model? Or will the structure remain generally much as it is now with grind parties taking center stage and alternatives that are less than meaningful? I personally have no interest in the latter as I left that kind of naked grind behind in FFXI years ago and don't want to get back to that. I know that if we don't get some real meat and potatoes leveling content in 2.0, the game will lose its appeal for me, and I'm afraid it will for others, as well.

I dislike quest level up system or dungeon level system that is not needed is fine how we level up now

Party is your best friend. Go to Uldah and shout.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I DON'T want quests that make you go all over the place and is nothing but linear. So boring. Tera has this for "leveling" and it's very boring.

I love parties leveling up by random mobs.

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have both?

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Originally Posted by viion

have both?

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Exactly. Having options makes for happy gamers.

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Originally Posted by casker

One more thing - just saying "in FFXIV you use parties to play" is a cop-out. You can do that in any game, and just killing new monsters in a new environment isn't going to convince people to pay a monthly fee.

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I have to agree. And to say that this is the intended design model isn't correct, anyway. FFXIV was never conceived as a game where open world party grinding would be the primary means of level progression. Leveling was originally meant to be achieved through guildleves, which is a questing system (not the best questing system, but one nonetheless). When leves were repositioned as solo content, it was done with the announcement that the game would move away from a grind-centric model, and move toward offering players a variety of options.

Keeping this in mind, I can't see how making grind-parties possible was done as anything more than a placeholder for future leveling content. It was just the fastest way to give players an alternative to doing leves, which they were sick to death of. I would like to believe Yoshi-P has an idea of what modern MMO gamers want, and naked grinding is not something most find appealing. It's apparent that there are some old-school gamers that do enjoy it, so there is no harm in keeping it in place as an option. But to say that it's fine the way it is would not only be incorrect, but completely ignores the announcement made by Yoshi-P.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

In other words, the 2.0 client has reached that realistic level. Now we are entering the phase where we are switching the maps, adding dungeons, transplanting updated content and adding new, implementing a ton of quests, and seeing how much stuff we can put in with our mass production line.

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Seeing this posted yesterday gave me hope that these are perhaps some of those leveling options - questing, dungeons, and new content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

When leves were reformed so that they would no longer be central leveling content, Yoshi-P announced this change in design philosophy:

"We still have some ways to go, but FINAL FANTASY XIV will gradually shift from being a grind-centric game to one that offers enjoyment for all playing styles and circumstances with its ever-expanding variety of content."

It sounded like FFXIV was going to move toward a leveling model that would bring it in line with modern MMOs. Players would be able to take on "large volumes of quests" that required actual interaction with NPCs. These quests were indeed described as a viable leveling tool when it was said that, "In addition to guildleves, sidequests will also be made to yield skill points upon completion, thus providing players with more avenues for advancement."

This obviously has not fully come to fruition, as quest rewards are minimal and the number of quests are insufficient to really progress your character. While the new leveling model implied perhaps some WoW-style or Aion-style questing (which I would personally love to see), that doesn't seem to be something that's coming anytime soon. Perhaps this is in the works for 2.0. I wouldn't be surprised if they held off until then, considering the large-scale changes to maps and zone progression that will be coming. A lot of the quest writing and hub setup would all change, with a lot work wasted.

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Hi Rowyne and All,

Definitely agree about the Quests situation. But when I see newer quests like "Disorganized Crime" (with some *nice* Custom Cinematics, interesting story and ties into Gridania's Seedseer Kan-E-Senna and her younger sister, etc.), it gives me HOPE that the Side Quests will be something very cool by the time 2.0 comes out! :)

For those that haven't tried this Side Quest, go to Gridania and talk to this NPC:

Quest: Disorganized Crime
NPC: Biddy
Gridania (2-1) (in Stillglade Fane) :)

I remember reading some developer posts where it was implied that from 1.22 and on (after the Combat Revamp was finished (in this patch 1.21)), it would free up the Final Fantasy Team to make more *content*, faster. (One can hope that this really happens!) ;)

So I'm hoping from 1.22 and on, we'll get more Side Quests and Main Story / World Lore with production values that match or exceed Quests like "Disorganized Crime" (the actual fights themselves are relatively easy for a Level 50, but I really enjoyed the cinematics and story :).

If we got more of these, spread throughout the 3 Nations and that gave solid EXP / Rewards, I think that'd be a huge positive step for Final Fantasy XIV as it nears 2.0 and the Sony PS3 Launch. (and give all adventurers fun stuff to do.) :)

(BTW, glad to see you didn't quit Rowyne! I thought you might be leaving in that "Reasons why you're leaving" thread a few months ago with the subscription renewals.)

Can't wait for 2.0! :)

i hope in 2.0, there would be both ways to level, the olden ways, grinding, and the modern way, questing or maybe any other form of leveling that add dynamic to it :D