Teleport System

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the system... An maybe there's already a thread about it, but...

Does anyone not like the anima usage teleport system? As of right now, it seems really easy to get around. Airships won't be useful if they are implemented, and the boat we do have right now I don't think is ever used. Anyone else share this? I'm not 100% against it or 100% on board, just a discussion topic, I want to see what other players think.

i think teleport is a great option for the casual players although i do not use it as much. i have a static group that i do leves with each reset so we all know what teleport we are going to do during that time. all other times i run wherever i want to go unless we have a group get together for nm parties.

i do not really use it alot, but there are times in which is is very useful and would dislike seeing it go away.

yep it sure is a problem but as it is by now it s hell when you re running out of anima cause always walking is really boring even though i m sure it will be more funny when chocobos get implement :)
I think SE should put some interesting stuffs to push players to take boat or futur airships like leves or quests and why not behest lol it would be quite a mess but it would be funny :)

It's probably going to stay as is.

If they had other methods of transport at the start, it could have been a little more limited. But they can't make it more limited now even if they introduce chocobos/airships.

Yea there have been a couple threads popping up over teleport. The "in a nutshell" answer to teleport is we need to either have chocobos, airships or quests/scrolls to unlock aetherytes to prevent friends teleporting you to places you have not yet traversed.

If your not going to give us birds, ships or quests/scrolls. Then don't bother changing anima.

Airships and chocobos will be useless at this rate.

Teleportation has already destroyed all the possible exploration we could have had in this world. They really can't fix the harm done there with a patch anymore. Besides the masses like it because they don't understand the way it affects the gameplay design.

The world feels really dead because there's no sense of connection between places.

let it be like this... until they add another transportation system to the game

I mentioned this in another thread, but once airships and chocobos are added, I hope they remove the teleport feature completely (except for Return).

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

I mentioned this in another thread, but once airships and chocobos are added, I hope they remove the teleport feature completely (except for Return).

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the only problem is that they want to hit the casual base that only get an hr or so to do something in a day. teleport is the only way they get to play and get anything accomplished. i personally wouldn't mind it getting removed, but am trying to stick up for the ones that only play a little not like us. i mostly run everywhere so it wouldn't effect my game much if any, but we have those it would hurt bad.

i have some friends that during the week the only way they get locals done is by crafting then porting the leves to the camps. they get those done during the week and play non stop on weekends. these are the type of people i would feel sorry for if it was removed.

If you can only play for an hour, whats wrong with an 8 minute airship ride?

When they add in new areas, new expansions and you're trying to get all over the place, you'll be thankful it is how it is. I run low right now and I'm only teleporting around Uldah regions, maybe sometimes to limsa/coerthas. When there are like 10-15 places I want to go to often I will be so low I'll be wishing they had airships/chocobos.

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Originally Posted by Mega

If you can only play for an hour, whats wrong with an 8 minute airship ride?

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8 minutes out of an hour is over 10% of your playtime. You can do an entire leve in 8 minutes.

8 minutes is longer than 0 minutes.

Airships probably won't go directly from crystal to crystal.

There's no good reason NOT to give the casual player the option to teleport. It doesn't negatively harm anyone else.

One way they could change it once other modes of transportation become available is limiting the range of teleportation.
So for example: You are in Ul'dah (or its surrounding region) and need to get to a nearby camp. Just teleport as you usually do and that's that.
However, say you are in Gridania and need to get to a camp in Ul'dah. You can either teleport to either the closest camp to the zone line (in Gridania -> Ul'dah's case, Camp Drybone?), or directly into the city itself. Then you can teleport to your destination camp.
This way, the more casual players can still have their teleportation for short playing times. Of course, those who play more often could kill off their anima supply rather quickly, so the use of the new transportation methods as well as exploration would be promoted.
Return would function normally.

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Originally Posted by Impulse

One way they could change it once other modes of transportation become available is limiting the range of teleportation.
So for example: You are in Ul'dah (or its surrounding region) and need to get to a nearby camp. Just teleport as you usually do and that's that.
However, say you are in Gridania and need to get to a camp in Ul'dah. You can either teleport to either the closest camp to the zone line (in Gridania -> Ul'dah's case, Camp Drybone?), or directly into the city itself. Then you can teleport to your destination camp.
This way, the more casual players can still have their teleportation for short playing times. Of course, those who play more often could kill off their anima supply rather quickly, so the use of the new transportation methods as well as exploration would be promoted.
Return would function normally.

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only people that do not know how to limit anima usage will run out quickly. i have been playing everyday and still had over 90 as of the shutdown. btw, your method would not work for the casual player only on for an hr or so a day. it would take multiple teleports to get them from point a to point b or spend their whole game time running to a point.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

8 minutes out of an hour is over 10% of your playtime. You can do an entire leve in 8 minutes.

8 minutes is longer than 0 minutes.

Airships probably won't go directly from crystal to crystal.

There's no good reason NOT to give the casual player the option to teleport. It doesn't negatively harm anyone else.

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Straw man arguments do nothing to help your position. If you apply this same line of thinking to everything in the game, in the end you'll have a nice approximation of WoW.

If your playtime is THAT limited, MMORPGs probably aren't the genre for you. And I say this as a college student working two jobs.

I see no reason to change anima, I usually hover between 6-12 anima anyways. If you play the game alot you will find that the 100 anima you start with is no where near enough, especially if you are a crafter.

So I have a feeling chocos and airships will be used highly even with the current system. In 1 leve day I can blow around 6-10 anima depending on where my and my group goes. And that does not even include crafting and gathering stuff which are done in different zones. 12-15 anima a day for a full time player is what is about average, that is not enough to use reliably past 2 weeks of game time.

Anima is for the casual ppl playing 8-10hrs a week, a gamer would need almost double the anima before airships and chocos become worthless.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Straw man arguments do nothing to help your position. If you apply this same line of thinking to everything in the game, in the end you'll have a nice approximation of WoW.

If your playtime is THAT limited, MMORPGs probably aren't the genre for you. And I say this as a college student working two jobs.

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So true. If this argument was used for everything XIV would be Farmville in few weeks. It almost is already.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Straw man arguments do nothing to help your position. If you apply this same line of thinking to everything in the game, in the end you'll have a nice approximation of WoW.

If your playtime is THAT limited, MMORPGs probably aren't the genre for you. And I say this as a college student working two jobs.

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if they are willing to play and are limited during the week, but want to get on and get something done i don't see where it harms anyone. it comes down to certain people don't like the fact that other people can do it and they don't want them to. it's nearsighted and elitest thinking. if these people want to pay their money and play the game limited basis is is not my job to tell them they cannot play since it does not affect my game in any way. granted these people will never hit cap nor ever see end game more than likely, but i do not like the idea of telling a portion of the potential player base they are not welcome.

i have been playing many many hours a day and never have an issue with anima because i choose to take the time to run in between points so it would not affect me in any way if it were taken away. i just know quite a few people that would not have purchased the game if it were for hardcore games only and the game was promoted as being casual player friendly.

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Originally Posted by Impulse

However, say you are in Gridania and need to get to a camp in Ul'dah. You can either teleport to either the closest camp to the zone line (in Gridania -> Ul'dah's case, Camp Drybone?), or directly into the city itself. Then you can teleport to your destination camp.

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The same goal would be achieved by just making long distance teleports cost more anima.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Straw man arguments do nothing to help your position. If you apply this same line of thinking to everything in the game, in the end you'll have a nice approximation of WoW.

If your playtime is THAT limited, MMORPGs probably aren't the genre for you. And I say this as a college student working two jobs.

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"Straw man" arguments? I think you are confused on what the definition of a "straw man" is. I am not misrepresenting Mega's arguments. All I am doing is listing reasons as to why removing teleportation doesn't add anything worthwhile to the gameplay. The more choices a player has regarding transportation, the better.

Why shouldn't MMORPGs be able to cater to casual players with limited gametime? If a gameplay mechanic can be implemented that helps out casuals, yet does nothing to impede the progress or enjoyment of the more hardcore players, there is no reason why it should not be implemented.

There is always going to be a solution that helps out both types of players, or at least a compromise that has more positives than negatives.

I want to see anima replaced, not just removed. If there is nothing to take its place then it should be left alone. Traveling is a means to an end and is no real hindrance toward end game progression. What I don't like is this game acting like it has a game genie attatched to it starting at character creation.

Lets look at the original Zelda (RPG) for Nintendo made 25 years before this game. You start out with nothing. However, by end game you have reached many dungeons and collected lots of useful tools which open the game to the player. You receive a raft that lets you cross rivers to reach new areas. You get a whistle that teleports you around the world. Not just anywhere. It teleports you to dungeons you've successfully completed.

Games are a time investment. MMORPGs are supposed to be the biggest, longest and require the most endurance and patience. FFXIV has failed in this respect and a game made 25 years ago gets it better than you and SE.

I'm all for anima and teleportation. Think about situations where you just log on, and your linkshell is gathering on the other side of the world. It's pretty convenient to be able to teleport to them immediately, rather than have them wait 15 minutes or more for you to get over there.
When other methods of transportation are added, people will definitely use them. Teleports will probably be reserved for times you need to meet up with a group instantly, or if you only have a short time to play.

I like to jump all over the place to change environmets, to keep the outlook different as to not get too bored. I run out of anima but i play alot atm. I would be open to any changes in the future, this is a working progress and i have faith SE will continue to improve.

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Originally Posted by TheGreatTozini

I'm all for anima and teleportation. Think about situations where you just log on, and your linkshell is gathering on the other side of the world. It's pretty convenient to be able to teleport to them immediately, rather than have them wait 15 minutes or more for you to get over there.
When other methods of transportation are added, people will definitely use them. Teleports will probably be reserved for times you need to meet up with a group instantly, or if you only have a short time to play.

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this is exactly what i use mine for at this point. if i am afk and an crafting in ud and find out the party is getting ready for nm's in coerthas i can grab my gear, port there, and join in the fun. when removing this it takes almost 30 minutes to run from uldah to camp clory for the uraeus. by the time someone made it the battle would be done and over with. now finish that battle and decide hey we're going to go to bald knoll after to fight the buffalo so let's run there. it will stop the flow of the game in that aspect.

i usually only use my anima to get to a party forming within my ls or to take members of my party to another place.

I'm not a fan of the current system, but until airships and choco's are introduced we don't have much of a choice. For airships to be viable the current teleport system would have to be edited and the cities removed from the lists. As long as they are still on the anima list people would rarely use the airships.

Also, I would like the current system to be changed to port you to an outpost that is not right directly at the camp. Finally, give us chocobo already! Chocobo are a staple of a FF game and it does not feel right without them as a means of transportation.

One thing they can do is add areas that can only be gotten to by Chocobo that have no teleport system in place.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

"Straw man" arguments? I think you are confused on what the definition of a "straw man" is. I am not misrepresenting Mega's arguments. All I am doing is listing reasons as to why removing teleportation doesn't add anything worthwhile to the gameplay. The more choices a player has regarding transportation, the better.

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You took Mega's arguement about a short airship ride and started spouting about how you can do a leve in that same amount of time. You're not refuting his position, you're making comparisons that just don't matter. Not classic straw man, but close enough.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Why shouldn't MMORPGs be able to cater to casual players with limited gametime? If a gameplay mechanic can be implemented that helps out casuals, yet does nothing to impede the progress or enjoyment of the more hardcore players, there is no reason why it should not be implemented.

There is always going to be a solution that helps out both types of players, or at least a compromise that has more positives than negatives.

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Some MMORPGs DO cater to casual players. Play LotRO, WoW, or Rift. Not every game needs to, however. Last time I checked, FFXI (moderated) and EvE(hardcore) were doing just fine.

The problem is that even if a single gameplay mechanic doesn't really affect people who play more than casually, they add up and eventually end up watering down the experience for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

You took Mega's arguement about a short airship ride and started spouting about how you can do a leve in that same amount of time. You're not refuting his position, you're making comparisons that just don't matter. Not classic straw man, but close enough.



Some MMORPGs DO cater to casual players. Play LotRO, WoW, or Rift. Not every game needs to, however. Last time I checked, FFXI (moderated) and EvE(hardcore) were doing just fine.

The problem is that even if a single gameplay mechanic doesn't really affect people who play more than casually, they add up and eventually end up watering down the experience for everyone.

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actually the statement she made directly refuted the argument he made. his response was that casual players or people that only play a little time during the week would not be affected by the removal completely of teleporting because they do not have much time to play. he stated that an 8 minute airship ride would not break into their time. renta pointed out that short 8 minute air ride, while it would not impact us, would impact the casual players by taking away 10% of their playing time and take away that percentage of the playing time. that is in no way a straw man argument.

second, i do not see how if a single game mechanic does not affect your game it waters down the game experience. the ones that play alot take advantage of the teleport system in place now and would continue to do so on certain circumstances. i know for one, i would not wait for 30-45 minutes for someone to run to the airship then fly over to the location we are waiting to start fighting a nm in. those are on a timer and either you engage em before the timer runs out or you lose the chance to fight it.

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Originally Posted by Mega

If you can only play for an hour, whats wrong with an 8 minute airship ride?

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it would be 8 minutes on the airship, plus several minutes to run from city to the nearest camp, plus a few minutes to run to wherever you're farming if you're not doing leves.



edit: I'll also bring up the fact that behest signup starts every hour on the hour and you'd be pretty pissed if you missed one because you couldnt walk to the camp you wanted in time, chocobo or not.

Remove anima. Remove 4/6 camps in each region. Remove all nodes. Add Chocobo's/Airships. Make the remaining 2 Aetheryte's + City Plaza's Teleport spells usable by CON/THM.

DONE.

Making this game overly solo friendly is KILLING the adventure aspect, the teamplay aspect and most of all, the level of difficulty / time put into content. These NM's we have are a damned joke. MMO's aren't FOR casual players. You want casual buy a 360 and play FFXIII.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

it takes almost 30 minutes to run from uldah to camp clory for the uraeus.

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It takes longer than that. 10 minutes from Uldah to Drybone. 10 Minutes from Drybone to Tranquil. 20 minutes from Tranquil to Emerald Moss, and about another 10 from Emerald Moss to Glory.

Just to toss my 2 cents in here, I personally, after the implementation of Airships and Chocobo's (assuming they will *fingers crossed*) would think I would use less Anima anyways because I could just grab a chocobo from town or the camp I am at and just race to wherever I want to, to get around. I am a casual player and I feel that the teleport system is nice to get things done quickly, however I do agree also with one posters opinion on how this game would be "farmville" like. Just to get on, get your stuff done and get off takes much of the fun away for me personally, but that is my loss being a casual player. I do however on weekends like to spend hours playing.

I guess to sum it up, I like the teleport system as it is, and can only see it improving after more modes of transportation are introduced. Less Anima will be consumed IMO :)

Lets not argue for the sake of "casual" or "hardcore". I am a casual player myself and here I am stating teleporting in FFXIV is horrible. Do i really need to explain how I'm casual? Nah. Look, we're all riding the same boat together and how this game changes effects everyone equally. Thats what makes MMOs fun. We all start from the same place and our actions dictate where we go.

I want a game where I can get bigger and go farther based on the time I've put in. If thats not your thing, then why are you playing MMORPGs?

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

You took Mega's arguement about a short airship ride and started spouting about how you can do a leve in that same amount of time. You're not refuting his position, you're making comparisons that just don't matter. Not classic straw man, but close enough.

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It's not a straw man, nor is it even "close enough".

Mega made a statement:

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Originally Posted by Mega

If you can only play for an hour, whats wrong with an 8 minute airship ride?

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He specifically asked, "what's wrong with an 8 minute airship ride". As in, "Please, I would like some feedback as to any possible negative consequences to an 8 minute airship ride".

What I did was simple. It's called, "I answered his question".

I gave specific examples why 8 minutes is not a trivial amount of time to a certain segment of players with specific goals in mind.

This is what people do in a reasonable debate.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Some MMORPGs DO cater to casual players. Play LotRO, WoW, or Rift. Not every game needs to, however. Last time I checked, FFXI (moderated) and EvE(hardcore) were doing just fine.

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Last time I checked FF14 (the game we are talking about) is doing horribly. Telling players to play another game is not the path to a successful game. The goal is to tell players to play OUR game.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

The problem is that even if a single gameplay mechanic doesn't really affect people who play more than casually, they add up and eventually end up watering down the experience for everyone.

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That wasn't the point I was trying to make. Let me quote myself again.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

If a gameplay mechanic can be implemented that helps out casuals, yet does nothing to impede the progress or enjoyment of the more hardcore players, there is no reason why it should not be implemented.

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In other words, If I can implement a gameplay mechanic that increases the enjoyment and playability for casuals that does not in any way affect the difficulty or enjoyment of this game for hardcore players, why shouldn't I do it? If there is no risk of "watering down" the experience, that means it's a good idea. I am of the opinion that there are many solutions available to us that can keep the basic elements of the game friendly to casuals while still giving more hardcore players a tough challenge should they choose to follow that path.

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Originally Posted by Abraxai

Making this game overly solo friendly is KILLING the adventure aspect, the teamplay aspect and most of all, the level of difficulty / time put into content. These NM's we have are a damned joke. MMO's aren't FOR casual players. You want casual buy a 360 and play FFXIII.

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I sympathize with your sentiment (I am a hardcore player myself), but if we want SquareEnix to have a successful product, we can't just restrict the game to just a narrow population of gamers.

Like I said earlier, the ideal solution would be to implement a solution that gives net benefits to both the casual and hardcore niches. This is not a zero-sum situation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum) where anything that benefits casual players is going to always negatively effect hardcore players equally.

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Originally Posted by Abraxai

Making this game overly solo friendly is KILLING the adventure aspect, the teamplay aspect and most of all, the level of difficulty / time put into content. These NM's we have are a damned joke. MMO's aren't FOR casual players. You want casual buy a 360 and play FFXIII.

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I love the "hardcore" players of FF14. Rush to 50 for what? Oh yea, the 3 NMs. There has been absolutely no reason for a "hardcore" player to exist in this game, aside from elitism. Like you said, the NMs are a joke, and I think the player who levels to 50 solo is more hardcore than the "hardcore" players who are grouping. 100-200 SP per kill solo compared to a 4-5 person link for 900 SP per kill? That takes some damned dedication. And what solo player(aside from the 50 thaum/conjurers using the system to their advantage) is killing the NMs? Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that people being able to do some things, like level solo, are somehow managing to ruin this game when the harder content still requires a group to do.

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Originally Posted by Mega

Lets not argue for the sake of "casual" or "hardcore". I am a casual player myself and here I am stating teleporting in FFXIV is horrible. Do i really need to explain how I'm casual?

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While Casual and Hardcore are archetypes we use to describe play styles there's really degrees to which you can be in either camp. TLDR your casual is not equal to someone else's casual. And regardless of how hardcore someone is they could also only have an hour a week to play.

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Originally Posted by Mega

Nah. Look, we're all riding the same boat together and how this game changes effects everyone equally.

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Yes, that is why we need compromise, teleporting is a feature that is completely opt in. People didnt boycott oblivion because it had fast travel, even though some people complained endlessly that it was in the game and went so far as to mod it out when it was a feature that was completely ignorable, at the end of the day these people looked like a group only interested in telling other players how they should play their game.

Yes anima should go up in cost when the other methods of travel come out, no it should absolutely not be removed entirely. If i dont have people waiting on me I will probably take a chocobo or an airship to save anima unless i only have an hour.

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Originally Posted by Mega

I want a game where I can get bigger and go farther based on the time I've put in. If thats not your thing, then why are you playing MMORPGs?

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well i can think of a few reasons that people who are not you(which are most people, I'm no expert on who is who but i'm fairly sure thats right) might have:

In regards to the travel dillema exclusively:
A) your friends got you into the mmo and you want to play with them but you dont have nearly as much time
B)you want to get something done other than walking done in your limited time available
C) you have a linkshell full of people you like and you want to be able to participate in things that linkshells do without them waiting on you (though this is possibly a repetition of C, you're more likely to be kicked from a linkshell [if you ls leader is a jerk] if you miss a lot of events.Rather than get kicked from your circle of friends who probably have a little more patience with you ).
D) Someone may have friends who themselves dont have much time to waste.

In regards to the time=might mentality in general:
E) Some people like a game that rewards based on effort as much as time. (Take raid reward systems for example: why only award one item for 20 people who ALL put in their effort? Assuming nobody was shirking their duties during the raid doesnt everyone deserve some reward? This is why a lot of games implement token systems now so you dont get completely shafted for putting in a bunch of effort for nothing.)
F) you are always going to be a step ahead of people that have less time than you always so why stomp all over them( XI has all the people its going to get because it pushes casuals into the sand)

g) you can implement systems that cater to both crowds and many games do this

Most of the issues you described could easily be resolved by planning with your friends and our ls members on the next day's events. I'm not quite sure what type of linkshell, guild, static party you have been in the past, but it takes little to no time to identify the next day's plans and log in that area.

That being said the rate of generation right now is ridiculous. I can not remember the last time I was under 80 Anima and I play everyday. What needs to happen is the starting cities removed from the anima teleport list, airships added, anima generation lowered significantly, and finally chocobo's added.

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Originally Posted by Mega

Lets not argue for the sake of "casual" or "hardcore". I am a casual player myself and here I am stating teleporting in FFXIV is horrible. Do i really need to explain how I'm casual? Nah. Look, we're all riding the same boat together and how this game changes effects everyone equally. Thats what makes MMOs fun. We all start from the same place and our actions dictate where we go.

I want a game where I can get bigger and go farther based on the time I've put in. If thats not your thing, then why are you playing MMORPGs?

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Are you listening, Square-Enix?

After the 8 min ride you still need to walk to the Crystal to start your leve or turn in your craft leve.

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Originally Posted by Frebaut

After the 8 min ride you still need to walk to the Crystal to start your leve or turn in your craft leve.

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and? What do you expect to just snap your fingers a moogle appears and you hand in your quests?