Alternate suggestions for Living Dead

Since 90% of the player base is in agreement that Living Dead is the worst of the Tank "Super Cooldowns" I'd like to offer the following as a new options to discuss:

Living Dead
Grants the effect of Living Dead for 10 seconds. When HP is reduced to 0 while under the effect of Living Dead, instead of becoming KO'd, HP becomes 1, a magicked barrier is erected which nullifies damage equaling you maximum HP for 20 seconds, and Living Dead is lost immediately.
Cooldown: 300 seconds


Dark Soul
Reduces incoming damage by 50% for 10 seconds, Erects a magicked barrier which nullifies damage equaling maximum health + missing health for 20 seconds.
Cooldown: 300 seconds

Personally I like the Dark Soul Cooldown more, to change it a bit:

Beyond Death: Erect a magical barrier in which when you stand in, attacks that bring you past 1HP will not kill you for X seconds. When the barrier fades, stepping where the barrier was, will result in a KO, lasts for 10 seconds.

I know it would be easy to avoid but Holmgang/Current LD are easy to avoid with a WHM Bene.

Unsure of how long it should last, as I'm not good on balancing skills.

It's not the worst by any regard if we're talking about power level. It's actually the 2nd strongest. It is annoying though

Both of your suggestions are straight up nerfs, so no thanks. LD is often used to tank multiple tankbusters equaling way more than your max hp since its duration and timing for activation are very generous, your versions would result in straight up dying in a lot of situations that current LD can handle.

No-movement LD would be "balanced" but it's kinda just is basically holmgang in execution.

Dark Souls variant is kind of cool, but I feel you'd absorb a lot less damage in total for some of the real tank busters of the game.

With the mind that the other impervious skills should probably also get more flavor (buffs/adjustments) I thought it could be a fun twist on the "you're going to die, maybe" take of Dark Knight's skill in that you make a deal with the void / darkness.. empowering you to the effect that you don't die of course but will if you can't expend that energy soon (collapsing from the dark energy held within, aka too much Edge/Emo lol).

So the change is Dark Knight's blood bar changes to void blood, the void blood must be used up within duration or you'll perish. Void blood may be used as mana or blood, and while it takes priority for consumption the other bars will continue where they left off if you didn't die in the process. Timer pauses and void blood drains slowly if no monsters are around.

Although to be honest I imagine Dark Knight's skill could be a smoother journey if it had a visual notification for healers. Or perhaps if Dark Knight could extend time till death by using their siphon strike (wont increase invulnerability time, but can give healers more time to patch the dark knight).

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Originally Posted by KatsuraJun

It's not the worst by any regard if we're talking about power level. It's actually the 2nd strongest. It is annoying though

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I think its fascinating how much hype HG has. Holmgang has always made me a bit jealous but I was able to laugh because it locked you down. Now they removed that though for ShB lol.

In an environment where your healer isn't blowing their oGCD in weird spots the cost of going to 1 hp isn't really that serious, so Holmgang is pretty awesome - and if Living Dead goes off without a hitch it's also pretty awesome (unfortunately... sometimes it can turn into a train wreck.. so I would take Holmgang or HG just out of reliability even though LD CAN be great).

That isnt to say I think HG is awful, I just think its interesting that the other skills are actually quite good (LD being annoying sometimes ofc).

Hopefully if people get SE to nerf HG they don't forget about these other skills (nerfing and buffing them all together as need be).

If I could have my own version of LD, I would definitely keep the 1 hp trigger mechanic. For 15 seconds, every heal the DRK receives is, instead, converted into an equivalent magick barrier up to 150% of the DRK's max hp. Skill effect ends immediately upon 150% Max hp restoration.

If a full heal is achieved within 15 seconds, the DRK is restored to 50% of max hp and gains a magic barrier equivalent to 100% of max hp, which degenerates 5% per second until it's gone. All damage sustained is subtracted from the barrier, first, and then hp once the barrier is depleted. While any percentage of the barrier remains, the DRK gains 10% increased damage.

If timer ends and the healing received is not at least 100% of DRK's max hp, the accumulated shield is converted to up to 50% of the DRK's max hp, and the DRK gains a vulnerability debuff for 60 seconds that cannot be dispelled.

I think splitting the Walking Dead into a buff (Walking Dead : You can not be reduced below 1 HP by most attacks) and a debuff (Doom : If not healed to full you will die when this timer runs out) would solve a fair amount of Living Dead's problems. If a Triggered living dead applied the fairly common doom status healers would know they need to heal the Dark Knight to full otherwise they will die.

Living dead is the 2nd best super CD. In fact it is also longest (as long as your healer know what to do). If you mean the worst, it is GNB super CD. Now that is the worst from all tank.

Honestly.. they need to stop beating around the bush with Dark Knight and just full on copy the Deathknight ability "Purgatory" from WoW; The ability triggered on death and granted immunity to damage for a few seconds, but anything that took you under 1hp was turned into a healing absorption shield that needed to be healed off (which would bring the character above 1hp) or the character would die.
It's simple and doesn't require excess coordination.. the healer sees you're at 1hp and would heal you until you're an acceptable level above 1hp.

If SQE really wants Living dead to be their own version of "heal X or they die" mechanic though, they need to do it in a better way. A much better way to achieve a much more workable version of their own Living Dead would be to have it usable as it is and proc it at death and make you immune to most forms of incoming damage for the duration; but instead, the ability should put you at 100% hp and apply a non-curable DoT that does 10% of your hp every second for 10sec.
This accomplishes the same thing as Living Dead does now but it's much more intuitive to the healers that they need to heal you during that time because you still will die if it ticks down without intervention.

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Originally Posted by Celenia

Living dead is the 2nd best super CD. In fact it is also longest (as long as your healer know what to do). If you mean the worst, it is GNB super CD. Now that is the worst from all tank.

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How is it the second best? You understand it does not activate tell you die. So if you do not hit 0 hp in that 10 seconds window after activating it. Then it does nothing. It only when you enter WD is when it really activates. Now you have to be healed 100% or die. Tell me. Does the GNB ability kill the tank after it ends? Besides LD none of the tanks ults kill the tank after it ends. Fact it might be more MP efficient to not heal the tank while they are in LD/WD. Then start casting a rez spell with out using swift cast. Because you are pretty much killing your self the moment you activate LD.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

Honestly.. they need to stop beating around the bush with Dark Knight and just full on copy the Deathknight ability "Purgatory" from WoW; The ability triggered on death and granted immunity to damage for a few seconds, but anything that took you under 1hp was turned into a healing absorption shield that needed to be healed off (which would bring the character above 1hp) or the character would die.
It's simple and doesn't require excess coordination.. the healer sees you're at 1hp and would heal you until you're an acceptable level above 1hp.

If SQE really wants Living dead to be their own version of "heal X or they die" mechanic though, they need to do it in a better way. A much better way to achieve a much more workable version of their own Living Dead would be to have it usable as it is and proc it at death and make you immune to most forms of incoming damage for the duration; but instead, the ability should put you at 100% hp and apply a non-curable DoT that does 10% of your hp every second for 10sec.
This accomplishes the same thing as Living Dead does now but it's much more intuitive to the healers that they need to heal you during that time because you still will die if it ticks down without intervention.

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Honestly with the Heal X or they Die mechanic. They need to give DRK some super strong life steal ability/buffs. I am not saying so over power that we can solo raid content. Yet enough that could be used more of our mitigated mechanics. Paladins block. Warriors parry, GNB puts shield on I think. We just flat out steal the bosses hp.

It really feels like they are trying to copy the death knight but at the same time not copy it. So we are some crappy version of the death knight.

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Originally Posted by DemonicNeko

Honestly with the Heal X or they Die mechanic. They need to give DRK some super strong life steal ability/buffs. I am not saying so over power that we can solo raid content. Yet enough that could be used more of our mitigated mechanics. Paladins block. Warriors parry, GNB puts shield on I think. We just flat out steal the bosses hp.

It really feels like they are trying to copy the death knight but at the same time not copy it. So we are some crappy version of the death knight.

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They are trying to copy Deathknight, which isn't a bad thing.. it's a really fun class to tank with in WoW; but yeah, they don't want to embrace the lifesteal mechanic / generated damage shields as our mitigation tools like Blood Deathknight does and so we get this weird version that's not quite normal mitigation but certainly not lifesteal based.

Honestly though.. i think one of the things that's really getting in their own way with tanking classes is their obsession with the tankbuster mechanic. As long as they exist, you can't really have reaction based tanks; you need proactive tanks that can brace incoming damage rather than react to having sustained it; of course, an answer to that is more active mitigation tools like how Blood Death Knights generate a damage shield with Death strike, something similar could be put into xiv (not just for DRK, but just as a general thing to liven up tanks). Upping boss general damage and reducing the reliance on tankbusters is also another option.. but i have a feeling they're not going to think of changing the formula, even if it could be a good thing that opens up more gameplay options for them.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

They are trying to copy Deathknight, which isn't a bad thing.. it's a really fun class to tank with in WoW; but yeah, they don't want to embrace the lifesteal mechanic / generated damage shields as our mitigation tools like Blood Deathknight does and so we get this weird version that's not quite normal mitigation but certainly not lifesteal based.

Honestly though.. i think one of the things that's really getting in their own way with tanking classes is their obsession with the tankbuster mechanic. As long as they exist, you can't really have reaction based tanks; you need proactive tanks that can brace incoming damage rather than react to having sustained it; of course, an answer to that is more active mitigation tools like how Blood Death Knights generate a damage shield with Death strike, something similar could be put into xiv (not just for DRK, but just as a general thing to liven up tanks). Upping boss general damage and reducing the reliance on tankbusters is also another option.. but i have a feeling they're not going to think of changing the formula, even if it could be a good thing that opens up more gameplay options for them.

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I will not like. I would love for DRK to be more anti magic and life stealing base tank like how they originally teased us in HW. Not really the same as Death knight with their shields and bone armor. Like here some idea on how this could work. We can place a buff that gives use X seconds to turn X percent of magic damage into life points. Another idea is comes from Keagian in my post about LD being removed.

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Originally Posted by Keagian

Honestly they should just remove the death penalty from Walking Dead and instead make it so that all of DRK's attack's lifesteal HP back while being invulnerable to damage but can't be healed for the duration. As long as each attack heals for 75% of the DRKs damage potency, it wouldn't be hard for DRKS to get back to 50-75% HP. Having a visual effect to let healers know that they can't heal the DRK by having some sort of bright purple aura around the DRK would allow them to ignore the DRK for the duration of Walking Dead, this way it would actually help healers save on MP and have the skill rely solely on the DRK's own abilities and resources to get back to a healthy position.

The fact that Living Dead requires a healers intervention and taxes them, is part of the reason why it's considered a bad invulnerability skill. If I used Living Dead and died to Walking Dead then it would be on me for not using my resources to get myself back up to a healthy HP line. Currently Living Undead punishes both the tank and healer if all requirements aren't met and I hate having an ability that puts pressure on my teammates.

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I feel the idea of the DRK has so much room of interpretation. That as long as it feels metal and badass. With it being loads of fun to play. People would except it as a dark knight theme. There so many ways they can take the class. We are so used of the play style change each expansion. That we would not care if they turn it up side down on it head. As long as it is dark, Effective at tanking and fun to play. Which is something it was not in SB. It was not fun to play. Did not feel dark and it was a terrible tank.

Sadly I think the devs idea on how a DRK should be is a want a be Death Knight. While the community idea is. "I just want to be dark, edgy and a total bad ass." With a tone of fun playing as this epic bad ass tank. I also worry that they are holding us back because they do not want any tank to outshine the warrior on the cool factor.

Dark Trance

All damage taken is depleting MP instead of HP. After the effect ends your current HP and MP is swapped (percentage based).

Additional effect: Converts physical damage dealt into MP.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Dark Trance

All damage taken is depleting MP instead of HP. After the effect ends your current HP and MP is swapped (percentage based).

Additional effect: Converts physical damage dealt into MP.

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This sounds good, but what if the effect ends while you're at 0 MP?
You won't even have a chance to recover, you'll just instantly die, and the healer won't be able to save you.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

This sounds good, but what if the effect ends while you're at 0 MP?
You won't even have a chance to recover, you'll just instantly die, and the healer won't be able to save you.

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That's why it has an additional Blood Weapon effect build in: You are supposed to heal yourself with it by filling up the MP bar before the effect ends.

But yes, when you are at 0 MP you will die.

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Originally Posted by DemonicNeko

I will not like. I would love for DRK to be more anti magic and life stealing base tank like how they originally teased us in HW. Not really the same as Death knight with their shields and bone armor.

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The whole bone motif is just visual; actually embracing the ideas from class they've been skirting around copying and visually changing it wouldn't be horrible, you just make sure you give it your own visual.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

The whole bone motif is just visual; actually embracing the ideas from class they've been skirting around copying and visually changing it wouldn't be horrible, you just make sure you give it your own visual.

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Yeah. They do not need to give us 100% copy and paste. Yet they can look at the mechanics. Make their on spin on it. The Darkest Night can be their version of Death Strike shield ability. Just drop it MP cost so we can use it more often. Make it so Soul Eater life steal is strong. Give us like few more life steal ability. We already have some anti magic stuff. It mean they have a good base of the Death Knight. Just need to finish it off.

Make it so Living Dead Wipes the party if the DRK who uses it isn't healed to full HP.

Let the darkness consume everyone.

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

Make it so Living Dead Wipes the party if the DRK who uses it isn't healed to full HP.

Let the darkness consume everyone.

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Love it.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Knight

"
in:
Dark Knights, Recurring jobs
Dark Knight
English


CecildsNB
"My anger, pain and sadness—shall be your loss."
—Dark Knight

Dark Knight (暗黒騎士, Ankoku Kishi?, lit. Darkness Knight) is a special job class that appears in several games in the series.


The Dark Knight is characterized by wearing tight, sometimes enclosed, black armor and wielding a sword steeped in wicked powers. Their physical stats, with exception of Defense, are usually high, but their other stats depend on the game they appear in. The typical Dark Knight ability is Souleater, also known as Darkness, which allows them to sacrifice their HP to perform stronger attacks.

Souleater is not exclusive to the Dark Knight class, however. Dark Knights may also have abilities based on blood equipment, which allows them to absorb HP and MP from enemies. The Dark Knight is opposed by the Paladin, holy knights who protect allies and wield sacred powers. Unlike many classes, Dark Knights bear a signature weapon, the Deathbringer, which has a chance to kill certain enemies in a single blow. "

I can't agree more with this death knight theory. It boggles my mind that they can keep RDM identity, but DRK? Even as a Tank, we can look at the mp instead of hp sacrifice. Fine, Cool. But no significant lifesteal- At least during LD?

There should at least be a visual effect over the the user. Like the grim reaper standing over the player who has 10 seconds counting down before he takes his life. That way the healer can see that the user needs to be healed.

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Originally Posted by Apoc1216

Personally I like the Dark Soul Cooldown more, to change it a bit:

Beyond Death: Erect a magical barrier in which when you stand in, attacks that bring you past 1HP will not kill you for X seconds. When the barrier fades, stepping where the barrier was, will result in a KO, lasts for 10 seconds.

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I do kind of like the idea of a tank invuln which creates a "Safe zone" on the field for a few seconds which then turns into a "not safe zone" for a few seconds. To make it interesting, you could make the "not safe zone" also deadly for any party members that step on it. So you would have to make sure you don't put it on a spot that people need to stand on for a mechanic.