How do you all feel about a Ranged class' AoEs only having melee range?
DNC AoE Question
Printable View
-
05-31-2019, 08:18 PMBurningskullDNC AoE Question
-
05-31-2019, 08:39 PMRongway
It works out fine on RDM.
Besides, no ranger needs to park so far away that melee range skills are a significant burden, whether they're AoE or single target. DNC even has it easier than RDM because DNCs don't have to stand still for every other action. -
05-31-2019, 08:52 PMPallero
That's how quick nock and spread shot work already on the other "rangeds"
Do notice DNC even has to go melee range for single target rotation to use the "aoe" procs from flourish -
05-31-2019, 09:39 PMHyoMinPark
I like it. The mixture of ranged/melee works well on RDM, so can't wait to try it out on DNC.
As for the AOE, BRD/MCH have point-blank cone AOEs, so being up on the boss as a DNC won't be much different. -
05-31-2019, 10:48 PMPrimal_Link
At the same time Dancer has up to to 3 forward dashes stored at any one time so if you need to aoe you can weave a dash or two into melee range and swing away.
-
06-01-2019, 03:10 AMCrushnight
It seems the job has been designed around being up close a lot of the time to and the dashes help get far/close as needed so i'm fine being a more melee range ranged dps XD it sorta gives a more unique feel to the role since brd/mch didn't have this dependency outside their spam gcd AoE
-
06-10-2019, 11:25 PMOmniaFan Dance 1 and Fan Dance 2 is a "Shared" proc. Using FD1 will disable FD2, and using FD2 disables FD1. If you are killing a single target, you should use fan dance 1, and there is no need to be melee range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallero
Always be in melee range for Fan Dance 2 and your AoE combo rotation. Fan Dance 3 doesn't require melee range, and uses feather. FD3 does not share proc with F1 or F2.
In the video, they went melee range as a showcase, not as a requirement for FD1 or FD3 or Devilment on a single target. =) -
06-10-2019, 11:41 PMMimiluI think Pallero is referring to the weaponskills that automatically get their procs from Flourish's effect. It effects both your single-target and AoE skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnia
-
06-10-2019, 11:48 PMSeraphorI've never really thought of ranged classes as job that 'need to attack from a long range' but jobs that use range as a tool to their benefit, like how melee use positionals. Ranged are able to function outside of the scope of a lot of AoE attacks, kite enemies, etc. A ranged DPS should never be so far away anyway, or they're out of range of the healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burningskull
Both BRD and MCH's AoE's also require melee range btw, they're point blank cone AoEs. -
06-11-2019, 04:01 AMOmniaYea, but he's saying going into melee range on a single target, to use an AoE proc, which didn't make sense to me. You don't use an AoE skill on a single target, for a loss of DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
But I get what you're saying now, Mimilu. Either way, he doesn't have to go Melee range to use FountainFall or Reverse Cascade, which procs from Cascade/Fountain.
On large mob pulls, he should be in melee range when doing the full AoE rotation, including the procs for RisingWindmill & Bloodshower.
Lol, hope I didn't confuse him further. -
06-11-2019, 04:47 AMRongwayFan Dance 1 and 2 use feathers and proc Fan Dance 3. Fan Dance 3 doesn't cost feathers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnia
-
06-19-2019, 02:26 AMRivxkobe
Honestly probably going to be playing DNC mostly within Melee range anyway since it has Support AoEs around itself, and doesn't really have any reason to stay at range.
Edit: Also as stated by Hyo below Flourish procs shouldn't be wasted and some are Melee range. /shrug -
06-19-2019, 02:43 AMHyoMinParkWhen you use Flourish, it automatically gives you free Flourished procs for all of your skills (Flourishing Cascade, Flourishing Fountain, Flourishing Windmill, Flourishing Shower, and Flourishing Fan Dance). Based on the working rotations I’ve seen floating around for DNC, you don’t want to waste these as they are free procs, which means that they are free damage—especially Bloodshower, which is 300 potency on the first target—it still has the drop-off of 50%, of course, but your main two skills are 250 potency (Cascade) into 300 potency (Fountain). Rising Windmill is 250 potency for the first target, so it’s the same as Cascade. Fan Dance III is 200 potency for the first target, which makes it stronger than Fan Dance I (150 potency), so you will automatically use it against a single target and in AOE situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnia
Wasting the Flourished procs you get from using Flourish (which is used every 60s) looks more like wasted damage here compared to other jobs where you obviously wouldn’t use something like Quick Nock (110 potency) over Heavy Shot (150 potency) on a single target. However, with the latter example, your Quick Nock also comes at the cost of using a HS GCD and is not a proc given to you for free with a skill. For a closer example to DNC’s Flourished procs, consider BRD’s Apex Arrow: it is listed as an AOE skill, but at the 450 potency listed on the tooltip, it would be a loss to not use it on a single-target as well when it procs.
You obviously won’t waste GCDs on Windmill or Bladeshower attempting to proc Rising Windmill or Bloodshower on a single target, but when the game gives them to you for free, it seeming like it’s okay to substitute a Cascade GCD for a free proc. -
06-19-2019, 07:14 AMCrushnightTo add Rising Windmill and Bloodshower both have a proc for fan dance 1/2 so you can potential lose 0 to 4 ocgds on top since fan dance 1/2 can proc to fan dance 3Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
Edit: this just made me think how much potential double weaving could happen if your really lucky with every proc and enter florish with 3 feathers could be something like this
gcd, florish, upgraded(u)gcd, fd3, fd1, ugcd. fd3, fd1, ugcd, fd3, fd1, ugcd, fd3, gcd -
06-19-2019, 08:13 AMRongwayIf you're not saving feathers for a burst, or you already have 3+ feathers before you Flourish, you could just spend Fan Dance III immediately after pressing Flourish, and whenever you do Fan Dance I or Fan Dance II, immediately press Fan Dance III whether you get a proc or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crushnight
[Weaponskill] (Flourish) (Fan Dance III)
Fountainfall (Fan Dance I) (Fan Dance III)
Reverse Cascade (Fan Dance I) (Fan Dance III)
Bloodshower (Fan Dance I) (Fan Dance III)
Rising Windmill (Fan Dance I) (Fan Dance III) -
06-19-2019, 09:51 PMCrushnightyes that could be possible except you would only get that fan dance 1 after rising windmill not both even with 4 feathers, this rotation also depends on flourish's animation lock if its non existant absolutely fd3 if it is too long then you do not want to enter flourish with 4 feathersQuote:
Originally Posted by Rongway
-
06-20-2019, 06:13 AMRongwayI'm having trouble parsing your post because it's underpunctuated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crushnight
All four of those weaponskills are flourished. They can all generate feathers, so all of them can be followed by Fan Dance I. I didn't say all of them would generate feathers, but that all of them can, and if youre spending them you might as well press Fan Dance III immediately after any Fan Dance I/II--don't worry about whether or not you need to press it; just press it. This will prevent any cases where you need to check if you have to blow a Fan Dance III before you use I/II, and with all the things DNC has to keep track of, you don't also want to have to think about this and potentially waste Fan Dance III procs.
You don't want to Flourish with 4 feathers, but if you do, you can recover with Devilment (Fan Dance I) (Fan Dance III). If you have four feathers but don't have the Esprit for Devilment, then on average you'll miss out on 125 potency (50% chance to overflow a feather that would have done 150 potency with a 50% chance to do 200 more).
Flourishing at 3 feathers is always safe and will leave you on average with 1 feather left even if you Fan Dance after every weaponskill.