Please make Living Shadow copy the player character's model

Why is every single character's "simulacrum of their darkside" a hyuran man? Especially if said character is a woman?

I just don't understand this design decision. There's no way that copying the player's character is too resource intensive either given that Ninja gets a fully colored second character model for Bunshin.

Considering lvl 70 story i think it makes perfect sense

Yeah, that was a bad choice too. But that was a story that I can ignore and fix in my own head. I can't just headcanon a new model into the game.

They probably don't have the talent to create an AI that copies your appearance and would have to make a shadow figure for every possible model and armor in the game, though if they do decide to mirror image your character, they could probably just use your face and race model but keep them in the 60 DRK armor. The Nin's Bunshin is just a special effect rather then an actual AI which is why its able to use their character model.

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Originally Posted by Keagian

They probably don't have the talent to create an AI that copies your appearance and would have to make a shadow figure for every possible model and armor in the game, though if they do decide to mirror image your character, they could probably just use your face and race model but keep them in the 60 DRK armor. The Nin's Bunshin is just a special effect rather then an actual AI which is why its able to use their character model.

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Isn't the level 50 Job quest basically your DRK fighting a copy of your character? I don't see how they can't just do the same as a Copy that fights alongside you.

If time is going to go into fixing Living Shadow, it needs to go into reducing the animation lock that you waste both summoning it and waiting for it to actually start performing actions. It also sounds like this "big" 120 second cooldown ability only does 40% of the damage that you would have done using those abilities, despite performing AoE moves in single target. This is a whole new layer of clunk on a flaming mess.

I'll leave you with this: even your shadow has a better Darkside aura than you.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

Isn't the level 50 Job quest basically your DRK fighting a copy of your character? I don't see how they can't just do the same as a Copy that fights alongside you.

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Esteem (who we fight in lv50 quest) is one of several physical manifestations the WoL projects from his/her guilt. In all honesty, we really don't know how deep this rabbit hole goes but that is for a thread focusing on DRK lore and how batschite they are. I bring it up solely because Living Shadow could validly take on many forms.

In the case of the poster you quoted, having Living Shadow be a direct copy of you and your current gearset, I could point to the Lost City of Amdapore HM. The first boss in there creates copies of each party member. They don't do anything other than set out a large cone AoE, but from a coding perspective that really doesn't matter. This along with NIN's Bunshin goes to show it can be done if that's what the devs wanted.

I simply think Fray was chosen due to being the common denominator in the lore, and to a lesser extent NIN's shadow clone.

Theres no way they're gonna change it to do this before release is there?

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Originally Posted by Lyth

If time is going to go into fixing Living Shadow, it needs to go into reducing the animation lock that you waste both summoning it and waiting for it to actually start performing actions. It also sounds like this "big" 120 second cooldown ability only does 40% of the damage that you would have done using those abilities, despite performing AoE moves in single target. This is a whole new layer of clunk on a flaming mess.

I'll leave you with this: even your shadow has a better Darkside aura than you.

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If Living Shadow attacked faster it would also have its timer reduced, its a 99% certainty that its current timer reflects when they wanted it to actually start its actions. Because like glamour players love their abilities to have STYLE. The same thing for MCH's Automation Queen.

On Fray himself, one thing to remember is that they are not fully just your Esteem. They are a combination of certain parts of the WoL's emotions and the memories within the soul crystal, specifically its previous owner Fray Myste. Which is also why he takes on Fray's armored look compared to Myste who looks like a combination of Haurchefant and Ysayle. Its also much more shadowy looking compared to the solid form it takes on for 30-50 and the 70 quest so it even if it looked more like your own character it would probably still be pitch black and thus not as different looking compared to a normal character's model. Thus it is less work to have everyone share Fray's character model.

i okay with using our model, since fray in our mind is basically us.

but i like the shadowy solid black model, so just make the outline model same as us.

I think Living Shadow is Fray honestly. He was called from the regret in the WoL's heart in the level 70 job quest after all. Only he uses that particular claymore model too.

I don't mind it being a copy of our character too, I'm just throwing out the possibility.

NO!
*hisses*

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Originally Posted by Zwynfalk

Why is every single character's "simulacrum of their darkside" a hyuran man? Especially if said character is a woman?

I just don't understand this design decision. There's no way that copying the player's character is too resource intensive either given that Ninja gets a fully colored second character model for Bunshin.

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It’s Fray, not a copy of your character. It’s the WoL specific drk lore.

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Originally Posted by kamikrazy

It’s Fray, not a copy of your character. It’s the WoL specific drk lore.

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Yeah, I know. That's the problem.

I don't care about Fray. He was dead to begin with. No WoL ever met him.

Having Fray be the form of ever single character's Darkside is boring. It tosses the cool moment of the level 50 quest in the trash. Plus it's weird and gross gender-wise for female WoLs.

Yes, I know that Fray was already the form used in the level 70 quest. That sucked too. It was the icing on top of the crapheap of the 60-70 quests. From misgendering female characters to forcing characters to canonically feel sad about some dumb, horny elf getting himself killed, to failing to bring back the character-copy Darkside NPC, those quests were terrible.

This is the chance for the devs to finally make a good decision in regards to DRK again, and instead it's a job that I'll literally never touch unless they change this.

I will never stop being mad about the lore direction they've taken.

No thanks, I much prefer fighting alongside my mad lad Fray rather than a carbon copy of myself.

Come on is that the only alarming thing about ShB DRK for you ? We don't even see what race/gender it is since it wears a full set of armor on top of being a pitch black shadow. If you were a male Roe I could understand since there's a big difference in body shape/size but it's really far from being the most important issue about the job right now.

This was so painful to read.

Alternatively, they could keep the coolest thing they've done for DRK yet by keeping Fray as the Living Shadow model. After all the job quests with him and story stuff, being able to actually fight alongside Fray in a non-instanced situation; even if it's only in a form like this; is the best choice thing I've seen yet. I'm glad they made the choice and wouldn't have it any other way; a great way to respect the lore for DRK while adding in a bit of fanservice.

I want to throw somethin else in here too. After a bit of thought I kinda like the idea of Fray always being with you in a way. It hits me in the heart.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Considering lvl 70 story i think it makes perfect sense

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The Level 50 quest has you fighting a copy of yourself. In the Japanese, it directly addresses you with:

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Originally Posted by The Hero’s Shade

I am you. The fear and hatred that you keep locked in the darkness of your heart, all the negative thoughts you deny… I am your shadow. You see, when you first touched that soul crystal, the darkness nurtured by the real Fray was invoked… and his desire to live reflexively stole some of your aether. He took not only your aether, but the darkness that lived in your heart… So I came to inhabit his body.

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CREDIT for translation.

As for the Fray versus your Shadow Self argument—

In the level 50 quest, your Darkside tells you that they will be waiting should you ever call for them to “take the reins”.

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Originally Posted by Your Darkside

…If this is how it must be, then so be it. But know that when you tire of this charade, I shall be here…waiting to take the reins… You need only ask…

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In the level 70 quest, when you confront Myste in The Peaks, you’re given the choice to say “I tire of this charade”. Given this, it ties in more directly with the being that appears as “Fray” in the level 70 quest being your self that you fought in the level 50 quest.

We never knew the real Fray. The being that was with us all through the 30-50 quest chain was ourself.

Personally, the only reason I think they didn’t make Living Shadow a copy of our characters is “technical limitations”. Not the best excuse, but I’d rather see myself fighting alongside the Me I interacted with from level 30 to 50 and fought in the level 50 quest. That feels more touching, in my opinion.

I imagine it's the case of the WoL simply assigning the body of Fray to our darkside since it has probably weakened after revealing its true form in the 50 quest. The darkside had to take on the form of Fray in the earlier levels because it was not strong enough to take on it's own reflection of us until our feelings and disdain became even more intense.

I'm disappointed as well that our Living Shadow just summons Fray when it should've summoned us but I just assumed of the above reasoning and more likely technical limitations.

I'm frankly more astonished of the fandom and support of Fray. Clearly showing that people probably didn't really pay attention to the 30-50 story. But I guess that's unsurprising since we also seem to worship Haucherfant and Zenos for whatever reason.
But perhaps it's more the fault of the devs for not keeping the story consistent and clear. /shrug

there is absolutely nothing wrong with Fray being there it does not mess up the narrative of the job quest of Dark knight had.

Yo, if it would look like a darker, shadowy-er? version of ourselves in the lvl 80 or lvl 70 DRK gear, that'd be dope AF.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

I'm frankly more astonished of the fandom and support of Fray. Clearly showing that people probably didn't really pay attention to the 30-50 story.

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I was very disappointed to find out that the shadow ISN'T us. I thought it would be. People stand by the 70 quests and lore and that's fine. I'm not one to complain about how the story has gone. But I can say I vastly preferred how things were for us in the 30-50 line. It was nice to be so incredibly involved and have some introspection in our character even if it was about the darkness. That being said I was REALLY hoping the shadow we summon was actually us to really capitalise on that.

But no it's Fray...

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Originally Posted by SeriousPan

But no it's Fray...

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Err Fray is us, did you not read the story? The fray you saw dead at lvl 30 at ishgard has died long ago. The "Fray" we met after it was our inner darkness/shadow a side of us. Lore accuracy the "Fray" we summoned at lvl 80 is actually us it's just probably due to cost and time reason they had to put the generic "Fray" look.

Meh, summoning Fray makes a lot of sense. That part is fine as is
What's more disappointing is that this type skill could be the basis for an entire job, but instead it seems to be a glorified DoT that doesn't interact with your gameplay in any way

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

Err Fray is us, did you not read the story? The fray you saw dead at lvl 30 at ishgard has died long ago. The "Fray" we met after it was our inner darkness/shadow a side of us. Lore accuracy the "Fray" we summoned at lvl 80 is actually us it's just probably due to cost and time reason they had to put the generic "Fray" look.

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Considering it's Fray's appearance and the same greatsword that Sidurgu tossed to him during the 70 duty, it could easily just be given form based on how the WoL views their darkside, just like how Myst was a manifestation of fallen companions created in the image of Haurchefaunt and Ysayle.

Regardless, Fray's probably one of the most iconic characters of the DRK's storyline despite being dead long before we encountered him. The simulacrum having his appearance makes sense in that regard.

I think its great that its Fray. Its like he's been with us in the DRK crystal, after all this time.

I know Fray is basically us since the real Fray died a long time ago before we actually do meet 'him', but it's a nice nod to, imo, one of the best job storyline in the game ♥

Considering the fact that there are now 4 classes of 4 different roles with "pets" and ShB has a lot of focus on pet abilities, I wonder if the long requested Egi glamour system is being expanded into a pet glamour system.

Fray might just be the default appearance and in the future we may get the ability to replace him with a clone of ourselves and/or various dead npcs. Wouldn't it be even better to be able to summon simulacrum of Haurchefaunt, Yasyle, Edda and other Npcs?

I'm personally quite curious as to the whole "Summon Fray" thing.

Like, the level 50 arc shows us that "Fray" is merely a mask to hide a reflection of our inner darkside, with the level 50 quest dropping this guise to show us the truth.

Suggesting that really, our "Darkside" is actually a reflection of ourself.

But then of course we get the level 70 arc which (Aside from being a load of baloney) again features "Fray" as an imitation of our Darkside. Though, I can only imagine that this was done to allow for the dialogue that "Fray" was having with our other simulacrum "Myste"

Meaning that unless the new skill is going to be talking a bunch, really shouldn't it actually be a copy of our own appearance?

Buut I guess that's asking too much for what amounts to basically Scourge 2.0... Meanwhile I was expecting something like Dancing Rune Weapon... (Alas, Ninja is the one who gets the ability that resembles that skill, since why create something like that for Dark Knight when you can instead give them Inner Release for their "Burst DPS" CD...)

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Originally Posted by Keagian

They probably don't have the talent to create an AI that copies your appearance and would have to make a shadow figure for every possible model and armor in the game, though if they do decide to mirror image your character, they could probably just use your face and race model but keep them in the 60 DRK armor. The Nin's Bunshin is just a special effect rather then an actual AI which is why its able to use their character model.

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isn't there a boss that copies everyone's model, even the armor to shoot out aoes?

anyways though I was under the assumption that Fray was the fight club's version of Tyler Durden.

honestly I expect a mod or a change later on...

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Originally Posted by Gariored

isn't there a boss that copies everyone's model, even the armor to shoot out aoes?

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Yeah, Achamoth, the first boss in Lost City of Amdapor.

To say nothing about the DRK 50 quest having the Darkside version of yourself.

Also, I imagine it shouldn't be THAT hard to make an AI that copies your character.

I mean, all it needs to do is go off the checkboxes for character creation that you used, and then essentially glamour itself based on your gear...

... Or you know, just copy/paste the section of data that references your character's appearance that they have saved so you have a character that is visible in the game...

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Originally Posted by Zwynfalk

Why is every single character's "simulacrum of their darkside" a hyuran man? Especially if said character is a woman?

I just don't understand this design decision. There's no way that copying the player's character is too resource intensive either given that Ninja gets a fully colored second character model for Bunshin.

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Frays image and other dark simalcrum take that shape because of the warrior of lights guilty conscience over the ppl they could not save and inner shadow archeotype. And, the soul crystal sensed our inner shadow and gave it form and release using the image of Fray and most likely memories from the echo, in theory. The actual identity of Fray is the warrior of light, and the shadow can take shape of their inner darkness and torment as well as embody what we deny about ourselves. That is why it looks like Fray's corpse. Also, it may be a gateway for other Jungian psychological archetypes to spill out of the WoL and cause all sorts of trouble (myste).

It's also possible that it's Myste's summoning ability and it requires the WoL to summon it from their memories, and that was already limited to the focus and range of the summoner

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Originally Posted by Zwynfalk

Why is every single character's "simulacrum of their darkside" a hyuran man? Especially if said character is a woman?

I just don't understand this design decision. There's no way that copying the player's character is too resource intensive either given that Ninja gets a fully colored second character model for Bunshin.

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I think this would be the only way to make this ability worse. Its such a cool idea but executed with no imagination or synergy with the job.

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Originally Posted by Zwynfalk

Why is every single character's "simulacrum of their darkside" a hyuran man? Especially if said character is a woman?

I just don't understand this design decision. There's no way that copying the player's character is too resource intensive either given that Ninja gets a fully colored second character model for Bunshin.

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Reported.

Take your gender bias somewhere else.

Its a matter of perspective i feel. treat Fray like your persona rather than inherently you