Yoshi-P: Summoner & Scholar both tied to ACN to save devs time

Yoshi P Interview w/ Larryzaur & Dungeon Preview | FFXIV Shadowbringers: @3:52

They tied Summoner & Scholar to Arcanist to save development time so they could release the two jobs at launch and wouldn't have to create two separate classes for each. I mean, we knew this..right? Still, a disappointment.

Three expansions on, and Summoner is finally just now starting to come into its own both thematically and gameplay-wise. As a SMN player, I'm thankful.

Summoner and Scholar drift further apart with each new expansion, but I still can't help wonder how much better the job experience would be for both if they had unique, tailored abilities from Lv.1 on.

Do you still support the separation of Scholar and Summoner from Arcanist? :confused:

Looks like it's going that way, all of schs abilities according to what I've seen are now under job abilities, with none under class.

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Originally Posted by Len

Summoner and Scholar drift further apart with each new expansion, but I still can't help wonder how much better the job experience would be for both if they had unique, tailored abilities from Lv.1 on.

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This is exactly what they are going for. There wasn't any reason for them to remove bane, energy drain, shadowflare and miasma from Scholars otherwise. None of those abilities really made sense to have on scholar. The only other option would have been for them to create a new base class that scholar would evolve from and not only that but develop new lore and quests from 1-80 just for scholar alone. From a development perspective it's obvious why they chose the former.

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Originally Posted by Selova

This is exactly what they are going for. There wasn't any reason for them to remove bane, energy drain, shadowflare and miasma from Scholars otherwise. None of those abilities really made sense to have on scholar. The only other option would have been for them to create a new base class that scholar would evolve from and not only that but develop new lore and quests from 1-80 just for scholar alone. From a development perspective it's obvious why they chose the former.

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So you're saying they WILL be separated, or that the developers will just keep them as they are and continue to build/modify them through traits?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Looks like it's going that way, all of schs abilities according to what I've seen are now under job abilities, with none under class.

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Tbh I wish SCH had kept the ACN junk and let SMN have new, SMN-themed abilities. DoTs definitely seem to fit the "tactician" gameplay style of SCH, whereas they basically have derp-all to do with SMN who are typically about big flashy summon explosions and burst damage. I can't believe it's been like 3 expansions and SMN are still casting crap like Bio/Miasma as their primary method of dealing damage. : puke :

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Tbh I wish SCH had kept the ACN junk and let SMN have new, SMN-themed abilities. DoTs definitely seem to fit the "tactician" gameplay style of SCH, whereas they basically have derp-all to do with SMN who are typically about big flashy summon explosions and burst damage. I can't believe it's been like 3 expansions and SMN are still casting crap like Bio/Miasma as their primary method of dealing damage. : puke :

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Yes, but now they made an emphasis on placing DoTs now on SMN as Ruin gets a boost of DPS if the target is inflicted with said DoTs. So if you want stronger Ruin spells, place DoTs. I'm enjoying the new changes personally as a SMN DPS-main and SCH Healer-main.

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Originally Posted by disturbedcobra

Yes, but now they made an emphasis on placing DoTs now on SMN as Ruin gets a boost of DPS if the target is inflicted with said DoTs. So if you want stronger Ruin spells, place DoTs. I'm enjoying the new changes personally as a SMN DPS-main and SCH Healer-main.

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Yes, and my point is that thematically, I don't want a SMN's "focus" to be on placing DoTs - I want it to be on summoning mythological creatures to do my damage for me. I'm cool having a handful of non-summon spells for filler, I'm less cool with Bio, Miasma, and Ruin being the main focus of this class with cool summoner gameplay every minute or so when you get Bahamut/Phoenix.

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Originally Posted by Len

Yoshi P Interview w/ Larryzaur & Dungeon Preview | FFXIV Shadowbringers: @3:52

They tied Summoner & Scholar to Arcanist to save development time so they could release the two jobs at launch and wouldn't have to create two separate classes for each. I mean, we knew this..right? Still, a disappointment.

Three expansions on, and Summoner is finally just now starting to come into its own both thematically and gameplay-wise. As a SMN player, I'm thankful.

Summoner and Scholar drift further apart with each new expansion, but I still can't help wonder how much better the job experience would be for both if they had unique, tailored abilities from Lv.1 on.

Do you still support the separation of Scholar and Summoner from Arcanist? :confused:

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I think this is about as far away as they can get from eachother now. They have pretty much no abilities in common other than Bio and Aetherflow stacks, but even those are functionally different now

I wouldn't separate them though, personally i like being able to level both simultaneously.

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Originally Posted by Averax

I think this is about as far away as they can get from eachother now. They have pretty much no abilities in common other than Bio and Aetherflow stacks, but even those are functionally different now

I wouldn't separate them though, personally i like being able to level both simultaneously.

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SCH gets a replace for Bio while leveling 70-80 I'm pretty sure. The only commonality they share is Aetherflow, which once again I'm fine leaving for say, just SMN (since aether summons primals and all that) and giving SCH another interesting gameplay mechanic.

I used to love the idea of SCH and SMN sharing ACN, but now I no longer think its better.

For myself, and my friends, who WANT to play SCH, and not SMN, being forced to play mini SMN with longer queues, to get to 30, before you can play it, wasnt a very enjoyable experience.
But if the game instead let you start as CNJ, get to 30, and then straight up unlock SCH at Lv30, on any job, would be better for those who wanted to main a healer from the start, but didnt want to be WHM.

This still removes the option that some people like having a job that levels up both a healer and DPS, w/o having to actually worry about the other, but personally feel the loss is ok. (Anyone who already has them leveled would keep them as they are anyways.)

This concerns me a bit, I mean, how does Arcanist looks like now? It worries me if all their tools get moved to SMN and SCH and they are left with one button to press until they get to level 30.

As for the concept of the branching: I liked it but not in a silo. I would had loved if every class had two branches: DPS and Healer/Tank. If this was going to be the only class with the branching, then just get rid of it.

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Originally Posted by Len

Yoshi P Interview w/ Larryzaur & Dungeon Preview | FFXIV Shadowbringers: @3:52

They tied Summoner & Scholar to Arcanist to save development time so they could release the two jobs at launch and wouldn't have to create two separate classes for each. I mean, we knew this..right? Still, a disappointment.

Three expansions on, and Summoner is finally just now starting to come into its own both thematically and gameplay-wise. As a SMN player, I'm thankful.

Summoner and Scholar drift further apart with each new expansion, but I still can't help wonder how much better the job experience would be for both if they had unique, tailored abilities from Lv.1 on.

Do you still support the separation of Scholar and Summoner from Arcanist? :confused:

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they were experimenting with a lot of things back then, they could easily have went branching jobs for every class back then, they just decided against it. Back then they were coming from a system where the base jobs were way more versatile, and most could easily go two directions. They still had cross action abilities, and jobs could be seen as the results of matching multiple disciplines.

they evolved the game in a different direction, pruning jobs down to just their core elements for whatever job they would become.

do they need to change scholar/summoner now? not really. I doubt it would give them any more depth or really any real difference in play

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Yes, and my point is that thematically, I don't want a SMN's "focus" to be on placing DoTs - I want it to be on summoning mythological creatures to do my damage for me. I'm cool having a handful of non-summon spells for filler, I'm less cool with Bio, Miasma, and Ruin being the main focus of this class with cool summoner gameplay every minute or so when you get Bahamut/Phoenix.

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Well, thematically, it works since your burst should be on your summons, so the summoner can work with DoTs instead of having their own burst spells, which differentiates them from other casters. It's also why Ruin has such a weak potency compared to other starter spells.

It saves so much time leveling.

What kind of masochist would want them separated?

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Originally Posted by Len

Do you still support the separation of Scholar and Summoner from Arcanist? :confused:

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During one Fanfest before Heavensward they annouced a rework of all Jobs for 4.0 and the removal of base classes for 5.0, whicht would include the removal of arcanist too.

Now 2 years later it got very silent about this change.

I'm fine with leaving both jobs tied to Arcanist or separating Scholar to its own job not tied to any class and just have to have ANY class to level 30 before unlocking Scholar at level 30.

I'm actually a bit sad the the last couple expansions because while I get why people didn't like the ARR style of summoner, I liked the dot/tactics/mathmage type stuff from arcanist and wish that arcanist could have just gone on to be its own job, and those thigns being deemphasized for summoning things, while making for a fitting summoner, sadly reduces the aspects of the job that I liked in the first place.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

During one Fanfest before Heavensward they annouced a rework of all Jobs for 4.0 and the removal of base classes for 5.0, whicht would include the removal of arcanist too.

Now 2 years later it got very silent about this change.

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I suspect that removing base classes just isn't worth the time it would take.

I mean many of the class quests have characters that pop up in the job quests, like the rogues showing up in some ninja quests, the SB Pld story being a sequel to the gladiator quests, the pugilists showing up in SB's monk quest. On top of some of the class quests like puglist and rogue just being good in their own right. Or good for world building in the cities they come from.

And what would we gain in exchange? Making the job system slightly less confusing? IMO it's not worth it. So I hope they don't remove base classes.