Why Do Mana Users Have To Manage Their Resource?

Reading the upcoming changes in FFXIV, I saw TP was being removed from the game. This struck me as unfair to all the mana users in the game.

Former TP users will be able to go through their rotations without any need to be mindful of their energy.

Meanwhile, mana users will have to constantly be keeping an eye on their MP whether they are a damage dealer or healer.

So, why was this change made and what do players feel about it?

TP users always were able to go through their rotations without looking at the TP bar.

If you actually manage to run out of TP, you are doing something very, very wrong.

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Originally Posted by Crystal_Raven

TP users always were able to go through their rotations without looking at the TP bar.

If you actually manage to run out of TP, you are doing something very, very wrong.

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I'm curious as to how you AOE as a DRG. Nobody ever uses Goad on me, and I can only use Invigorate so often...

I half-agree.

Healers - MP still makes sense to me. They shouldn't be able to spam their strongest heals with impunity.
BLM/PLD/DRK - MP still makes sense, because it directly impacts their rotation. Running out of MP is not a "problem" for them.
SMN/RDM - I don't know why these jobs still use MP. As I understand it, this job could lose all its MP costs and its rotation would not change.
Everyone else that doesn't use MP - Why is MP still part of my UI?

Do we know yet if ShB retains the "If you die, you now have zero MP" penalty? With TP gone, I don't think MP should be zeroed out upon death anymore.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

SMN - I don't know why this job still uses MP.
RDM - I don't know why this job still uses MP.

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Obviously I can't speak for ShB, but currently it's so they can't spam their heals and resses endlessly.

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Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

I'm curious as to how you AOE as a DRG. Nobody ever uses Goad on me, and I can only use Invigorate so often...

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There are very few places I've found that you can completely run out of TP before the end of all the available enemies. Weaving jumps and building to nastrond also helps not drain as fast as just the 2 AOE skill alone will.Once you get down to a few enemies you really should swap to single targeted damage. And even if you DO run out of TP it only takes a few seconds to refill.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Obviously I can't speak for ShB, but currently it's so they can't spam their heals and resses endlessly.

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Pretty sure that's not changing in ShB, either; from the tooltips we've seen, Resurrection and Verraise work the same as always, and presumably still benefit from Swiftcast/Dualcast, so MP still acts as a limitation on them.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Obviously I can't speak for ShB, but currently it's so they can't spam their heals and resses endlessly.

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Good point. Though personally I'd rather they just remove the MP costs for everything except those abilities if that's the only reason why they use MP.

Assuming you still lose all your MP when you die, that means death is still a big kick in the nuts to mages, while physical jobs have no issues. If their DPS spells didn't cost any MP, then it would feel more balanced.

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Originally Posted by Crystal_Raven

TP users always were able to go through their rotations without looking at the TP bar.

If you actually manage to run out of TP, you are doing something very, very wrong.

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Do you play Sam? Cause when you only have one TP regaining move and even after that you still run out cause you're the only person aoeing, I want to see you how much TP you still have.

Good point OP. I was just wondering the exact same thing this morning. Also, BRD/MCH Refresh has been removed as well.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Obviously I can't speak for ShB, but currently it's so they can't spam their heals and resses endlessly.

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If that's it then we might be able to change that even :3.

Red Mage raise:
After casting raise you have a 7 second window to cast raise again as an instant spell. Very long cooldown. May use dual cast to make the first raise instant, and then the second instant raise can also trigger another dual cast (so vercure -> instant raise -> instant raise -> instant verwhatever).

Summoner raise:
Has multiple charges that restore on a successful Bahamut & Phoenix rotation. (Same cast time as before). Or something else, could always bind it into a neat demi-summon (long cooldown support summon with one of it's actions being a raise).

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Good point OP. I was just wondering the exact same thing this morning. Also, BRD/MCH Refresh has been removed as well.

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Maybe I just have horrible luck with people, but to be fair... I rarely see BRDs or MCH use those skills anyway.

Well for tanks it changes pretty much nothing.
Since they were TP lacking only on lower lvls when they had to spam one AOE TP hungry skill.

A lot of jobs have other things to track, like gauges to build and spend on abilities. MP isn't the only resource, just the only one everyone still shares. And really from my experience, TP's only real purpose has been to limit the aoe of DOW jobs.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Assuming you still lose all your MP when you die, that means death is still a big kick in the nuts to mages

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Well, except for BLM. Doesn't take much to get back into Umbral and we're back in the game. I'll usually even wait a tick and throw a Mana Shift to pay back the raise cost.

I kinda even wish Mana Shift had a shorter cooldown, just so I could play mana battery as needed.

And don't forget, healers will have increased mp regen from piety.

It's for balance and class gameplay.

Believe it or not, there are people who enjoy managing resources in order to get the most out of them. It's what I found fun in Dark Knight, prior to Stormblood.

It's not "unfair" or whatever, it's a gameplay mechanic some players enjoy having access to as it creates another dimension to their role, and it also gates classes from spamming their strongest abilities without proper management.

i mean, mana/mp is like the staple energy source for spellcaster. we are talking a resources that has been exist since D&D era here.

if you get rid of it, then where is the fun of that? all class can just spam their skill with cooldown being their downtime, no management, no worry, just spam wherever you like it, thats sound boring as hell.

aside from spamming aoe attack, i never seen someone lost their TP completely. i can spam 123 combo for hours and my TP probably still at half, and either us or the boss should be dead by that point, so yeah there is no point.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

It's for balance and class gameplay.

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So, the solution to create balanced class gameplay is to remove the resource (TP) for tanks and physical DPS while forcing healers and casters to be stuck with it (MP)?

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

So, the solution to create balanced class gameplay is to remove the resource (TP) for tanks and physical DPS while forcing healers and casters to be stuck with it (MP)?

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PLD/DRK manage and use MP.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

PLD/DRK manage and use MP.

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That is true. I guess the way I look at it is that they can still function with no MP while healers and casters cannot.

Oh well, I guess we'll see how it goes in a month.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Well, except for BLM. Doesn't take much to get back into Umbral and we're back in the game. I'll usually even wait a tick and throw a Mana Shift to pay back the raise cost.

I kinda even wish Mana Shift had a shorter cooldown, just so I could play mana battery as needed.

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I really wish they didn't remove Mana Shift, I liked being a mana battery. I'm going to miss it.