SE Please No More Skill Spam!

So, I'm starting to get a bit concerned about the direction that SE seems to be taking some jobs.

Most notably, after seeing the Job Action Trailer where Samurai gains the ability to use Midare Setsugekka twice in a row.

I simply ask SE: Can we not?

Can we not go down a road where we devalue every hard hitting, satisfying to use skill by making us use them a bunch of times in quick succession?

Like, first we have Warrior and Inner Release and Paladin with Requiescat where the idea is to pop a CD and then spam your hardest hitting skill as many times as possible.

Now, we're getting one of the most satisfying to use skills in the game, because of the build up to such a powerful strike and... Now getting to use it twice in a row? What next, will we be having burst phases where we spam out 5x Midare Setsugekka in a row?

What of other jobs? BLM getting a second Polyglot so now we can Foul twice in a row? Where will it end? Will BLM next expansion be spamming out 6 Fire IV's and then 6 Fouls as their entire rotation?

How long until Monks Perfect Balance lets them spam 5+ Tornado Kick's in a row?

How long until Bahamut/Phoenix for Summoner consists of you just spamming Enkindle?

Simply put, big, flashy, hard hitting skills are satisfying to use. But only when they're used sparingly within your rotations, because that's how they maintain their hard hitting feeling.

Allowing us to spam these skills doesn't increase how fun they are to use, but instead, do the opposite, they make them feel worse to use.

It's literally the reason why I can't stand the current Inner Release implementation, because Fell Cleave doesn't feel impressive to use, when every 90s I'm expected to throw out 5x Fell Cleaves that are Critical Direct Hits...

I cant say I agree, I for one am hyped for double Midare.

I'm sure there's a game balance reason for it all, perhaps it shrinks the gap between average and hardcore players' DPS, idk. I liked using 5 Shintens in a row but it looks like we'll have more things to use Kenki on, which should be fun.

And DRG seems to be more of your liking as we're getting Final Chorus, a super jump probably tied to Life of the Dragon.

Nah... I like my double Midare. Thanks SE, don't change this.

Gimme double Midare!!!

To not want to be doing midare as much as possible is the hottest take.

What BLM is getting is a second charge. In theory, this will allow the class better planning and more mobility. The rest is just your opinion, to me looks promising so far.

Two midare's man. TWO MIDARE'S. Like I respect your opinion but. TWO MIDARE'S like TWO WHOLE MIDARE'S.

That two will soon be two hundred. RABBLE, RABBLE RABBLE

They also said not every job has the charges.

Midare isn't that great anyway. Usually you don't want to use it but instead transfer it with Hagakure into Kenki for more Hissatsu: Shinten, as the potency is higher. Now, if you can transfer two Midare into EVEN MORE Shinten, that would be really great <3

as sb warrior... "wait how many fellcleaves are we using now? 5,6,7,8? zzZZZ"

phoenix looks to me like bahamut reskin, at least from what we saw on the vid. he has almost the same attack as bahamut while its summoned. sure we dont have all the information and dont know how it works, but it makes this impression to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalise

Samurai gains the ability to use Midare Setsugekka twice in a row.

---

My understanding is this is part of the charge system. It occurs when an action has elapsed its cooldown multiple times. This allows you to use the action multiple times in succession. You are no longer penalised for using an action late because some of the cooldown of its next iteration has already elapsed, which could help further reduce the skill gap between players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalise

Like, first we have Warrior and Inner Release and Paladin with Requiescat where the idea is to pop a CD and then spam your hardest hitting skill as many times as possible.

---

Come to think of it, I've no problem with Paladin using lots of Holy Spirits. It's very satisfying, so perhaps it would be on Samurai too.

Eh, Sam in other games has played in this way. It reminds me a little of the self-skillchain spam SAMs did in XI. I think that we should probably be grateful that they are looking at the kits to begin with and rethinking the bloat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

Midare isn't that great anyway. Usually you don't want to use it but instead transfer it with Hagakure into Kenki for more Hissatsu: Shinten, as the potency is higher. Now, if you can transfer two Midare into EVEN MORE Shinten, that would be really great <3

---

Hagakure is most likely gone or changed to not consume sen. The first sam skill shown in the video is the replacement/a traited hagakure that doesn't burn sen most likely, given, "had reviewed and revised the effects of hagakure so that you can activate midare more smoothly."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalise

So, I'm starting to get a bit concerned about the direction that SE seems to be taking some jobs.

--trim--

Allowing us to spam these skills doesn't increase how fun they are to use, but instead, do the opposite, they make them feel worse to use.

It's literally the reason why I can't stand the current Inner Release implementation, because Fell Cleave doesn't feel impressive to use, when every 90s I'm expected to throw out 5x Fell Cleaves that are Critical Direct Hits...

---

Full agreement from me, but seems we're in the minority.

A large amount of people seem fine with pressing the same button over and over so long as big numbers appear on screen.

I’m kinda interested in these trigger abilities for Gunbreaker, I haven’t seen much on this yet.
It’s like an opposite-Dark Arts, that you use after the ability that it augments. If it works like it sounds, then this is an entirely new kind of mechanic, like the charged abilities, and I think it might also be apparent in BLM’s double-Foul, as the second Foul looks different to the first. Almost like an oGCD combo system.
It sounds like, if you use the trigger ability within 1 or 2 seconds of the augmented ability it has a bonus effect, or it can only be used within that time, or within the animation of the augmented ability.
This would be a lot better than just 'skill spam'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalise

I simply ask SE: Can we not?

Can we not go down a road where we devalue every hard hitting, satisfying to use skill by making us use them a bunch of times in quick succession?
.

---

That's Exactly what the comvbat system has been since Even Alpha days. skill spam, skill spam and even more skill spam..... and according to some not enough skill spam cos gcd is lonnnnnnnggggg

this is why alot of folks way back then preferred the 1.23 battle system as skills felt more powerful and satisfying to use rather than something to be spammed every 2 seconds... to this day I still prefer it. but sadly most of those who would have agreed have long since unsubbed. and only a tiny circle of friends keeps me here..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

That's Exactly what the comvbat system has been since Even Alpha days. skill spam, skill spam and even more skill spam..... and according to some not enough skill spam cos gcd is lonnnnnnnggggg

this is why alot of folks way back then preferred the 1.23 battle system as skills felt more powerful and satisfying to use rather than something to be spammed every 2 seconds... to this day I still prefer it. but sadly most of those who would have agreed have long since unsubbed. and only a tiny circle of friends keeps me here..

---

To be honest... Being active during your normal rotation is nice. Like, it's good to have skills to use frequently.

I even argue that the GCD is too long.

My issue comes when you get these high potency skills that are big and satisfying, sort of feeling almost like a personal Limit Break type skill.

Then they decide "Oh, now you just cast it 40,000,000 more times and that's your rotation kthxbai"

Like, learning Fell Cleave was great, it felt cool do slam enemies for high damage. Then Inner Release was changed and now the skill feels boring and meaningless because it's just that skill you spam constantly...

I had the same feeling with Fire IV Mage, when unlocking Fire IV it was like "Wow, that's really strong, that feels great to cast" then when using the actual rotation it's now one of the most boring skills in the game because you just spam it a bunch and that's your entire damage output outside a few Fouls and Thunders...

It's the same thing with Midare Setsugekka. I LOVE using the skill, it feels great to use, the build up, the charging, the high damage it does deal... It all feels satisfying. Even when you use Meikyo Shisui to use 2 of them in quick succession, it still feels rewarding because you had to use the CD and get all the attacks off fast enough to even get the Midare Setsugekka > Meikyo Shisui > Kasha > Gekko > Yukikaze > Midare Setsugekka.

It just seems that SE are balancing jobs around just giving them ways to simply spam their strongest skills a ton. Which makes them feel less good to use...

I think combat is far more interesting when you use a mix of frequent, lower damage attacks and infrequent high damage attacks...

Nah, spamming fell cleaves and see all those BIG numbers popping up continuously is the most satisfying feelings in this game for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalise

It just seems that SE are balancing jobs around just giving them ways to simply spam their strongest skills a ton. Which makes them feel less good to use...

I think combat is far more interesting when you use a mix of frequent, lower damage attacks and infrequent high damage attacks...

---

to be fair, we still dont know the tooltips and traits for many of the classes so we don't know how they're going to play out just yet. and in practice, we dont know how its going to interact with battle encounters. getting these "attack spams" could be beneficial before phase changes, and perhaps in long fight spans there is another option. honestly though I dont really see a big difference from 4.x combat concerning skill spam.

I see where you're coming from. Something like Midare is only really satisfying because you've spent a good while building up a singular strong attack, similar to bahamut for summoner. Being able to spam it sort of diminishes that value.

I'm not a fan of double midare.

I want triple midare, kthx.

if you look carefully you will notice that right after casting Meikyo Shisui, the samurai launch another skill, probably what did allows him to launch 2 iaitsu skill in row....
an important point to note tough....
Hissatsu kaiten have 5 sec of CD, means launch 2 full power midare setsugeka is probably more complicate than it seems.
i'm more curious about the chain attack that is shown at the end and the double strike involving the scabbard.

the removal of hagakure will probably make the cycle smoother.... but i doubt we will simply spam 2 skill in row.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalise

To be honest... Being active during your normal rotation is nice. Like, it's good to have skills to use frequently.

I even argue that the GCD is too long.

My issue comes when you get these high potency skills that are big and satisfying, sort of feeling almost like a personal Limit Break type skill.

Then they decide "Oh, now you just cast it 40,000,000 more times and that's your rotation kthxbai"

Like, learning Fell Cleave was great, it felt cool do slam enemies for high damage. Then Inner Release was changed and now the skill feels boring and meaningless because it's just that skill you spam constantly...

I had the same feeling with Fire IV Mage, when unlocking Fire IV it was like "Wow, that's really strong, that feels great to cast" then when using the actual rotation it's now one of the most boring skills in the game because you just spam it a bunch and that's your entire damage output outside a few Fouls and Thunders...

It's the same thing with Midare Setsugekka. I LOVE using the skill, it feels great to use, the build up, the charging, the high damage it does deal... It all feels satisfying. Even when you use Meikyo Shisui to use 2 of them in quick succession, it still feels rewarding because you had to use the CD and get all the attacks off fast enough to even get the Midare Setsugekka > Meikyo Shisui > Kasha > Gekko > Yukikaze > Midare Setsugekka.

It just seems that SE are balancing jobs around just giving them ways to simply spam their strongest skills a ton. Which makes them feel less good to use...

I think combat is far more interesting when you use a mix of frequent, lower damage attacks and infrequent high damage attacks...

---

thing is, you take warrior, inner release is them going beast mode. So you may have lost the feeling of using your one rare super attack, but you get the feeling of unleashing your berserker self for a short time.

I guess they could make more skills, but i think they are trying to keep the amount of unique actions on the bar down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

That's Exactly what the comvbat system has been since Even Alpha days. skill spam, skill spam and even more skill spam..... and according to some not enough skill spam cos gcd is lonnnnnnnggggg

this is why alot of folks way back then preferred the 1.23 battle system as skills felt more powerful and satisfying to use rather than something to be spammed every 2 seconds... to this day I still prefer it. but sadly most of those who would have agreed have long since unsubbed. and only a tiny circle of friends keeps me here..

---

back then you had no gcd, if i remember which version you are talking about. And could use many skills back to back if you wished. you just had to wait a bit after you press a bunch of buttons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

perhaps it shrinks the gap between average and hardcore players' DPS,

---

Considering they said their focus was to make job performance vary based on player skill, I imagine the opposite is true.

Though I don't see a problem with stuff like double midare. People like things that hit hard, that's why fel cleave is one of the most popular skills in the game.

I disagree. It's very satisfying to see large numbers on my screen!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I disagree. It's very satisfying to see large numbers on my screen!

---

I never get to see big numbers :(

Well... until I hit that Riddle of Fire button, that is...

Spamming Fell Cleave doesn't feel good? How can it be possible to be this objectively wrong. Having such thoughts should be ban worthy.

I'm quite happy raining Fell Cleave's and I'll very happily take double Midare. Big crits give me that satisfying "hard hitter" class feel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

Midare isn't that great anyway. Usually you don't want to use it but instead transfer it with Hagakure into Kenki for more Hissatsu: Shinten, as the potency is higher. Now, if you can transfer two Midare into EVEN MORE Shinten, that would be really great <3

---

The difference is miniscule tbh. You can take Hagakure off your bars entirely and barely notice a +1% difference. Probably why they're removing it and focusing on Midare play.

Doing 4x Fell Cleaves seems kinda boring. Like it was novel in HW to double Fell Cleave was shiny and new, and even still pretty cool in SB when you could like 4 of them, but it's getting kinda played out. Why not after 1-2 Fell Cleaves you get a new/better animation, idk.

"skill Spam" is just a way for SE to have mechanics where the boss leaves the battlefield without effecting the dps of a character by to much.

Like moment where you know you have to hold ten-chi-jin because the boss is about to jump out in 2 seconds for 30 seconds, now those 30 seconds of DPS loss are going to add up because the timing based on the cooldowns isn't adding up all the time.

Rather than make the game less fun and force you to micro your abilities to the millisecond to get them out because the boss leaves the field, players can just utilized well timed burst in between phase shifts among other things.

If anything, it wouldn't surprise me if we find out that KO status resets all your charges to 0 which would add to the skill ceiling since you wouldn't be able to die but fallback on your 3 charges to get a DPS boost back for the DPS you lost.