Dancer Gameplay Speculation

How do you think Dancer will play?

I'm thinking it'll have a dance rotation similar to bard's song rotation. You're weaponskills will be a 1 > 2 > 3 rotation that grants combo points to spend on oGCDs, and the OGCDs will change depending on what dance you have going.

Maybe it'll be like a ranged Ninja? Can you move and use actions at the same time i wonder....

I'm hoping it's highly mobile with a medium-complexity rotation and just enough support abilities to be considered important for raiding comps...

Basically give me a rotation around the complexity of the Warrior. Let me stay in constant motion because I'm twitchy after playing too much Overwatch and that kills my ability to play things like BLM... And I'd like to be on the higher end of DPS, but not like a SAM or RDM where I almost feel guilty for topping the DPS chart...

I'd like to see some actions that depend on leaping or rolling or whatever to a spot.

I don't want to see any 'ammo like' mechanic like MCH or DRK's Dark Arts...

I think the class should be competing in raid comps with the MCH or DRG, not with the BRD, and not with the SAM - please don't make it a "pure DPS" that competes with the SAM... Even the RDM's super easy high DPS rotation at least also has the ability to rez every 2.5 seconds and cast a small heal...

Oh and... slightly less intense shiny visual spam than I saw in the reveal trailer... though it's too late for that. I like to see my characters, not just a bunch of flashing special effects. I know I can turn them off... but I'd much rather tone them down than lose them completely. And a Dancer seems like the absolute ideal candidate for watching your own character in action.

I'm guessing it'll offer more support than Bard, but less dps than Bard or Mch.

As far as actual mechanics, dunno maybe dances consume some kind of resource over time that can only be replenished by doing certain skills in different rotations.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I think the class should be competing in raid comps with the MCH or DRG, not with the BRD, and not with the SAM

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Uh, why not with bard?

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Originally Posted by Final-Fantasy

Maybe it'll be like a ranged Ninja? Can you move and use actions at the same time i wonder....

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that's basically my guess it gets its own version of Mudras like dance steps and each have different buff

I'd rather not have a system like mudra's for Dancer. I hate dealing with mudra lag on Ninja already.

My guess is that it'll be some sort of BRD/MCH hybrid.

The 123 combo of MCH

With oGCD's and Songs of a BRD

I'm really curious as to how its utility will pan out though...

Since it sounds very BRD like in its description.

So I'm concerned that it and BRD will fall into a awful position in balance where either:

* BRD and DNC will share the same utilities (Passive crit boost, Battle Voice, Foe Requiem) and so whichever one does the highest personal DPS is the one that gets played all the time.

* BRD and DNC will have different utilities... Thus every party now wants BRD AND DNC limiting the rest of the composition to only 2 other DPS slots, due to how much tDPS these utilities bring.

Given the current state of DPS balance where party damage boosts are highly sought after because of how effective they are, not only due to amping the other DPS but also amping the Tanks and Healers to boot. Which makes party damage boosts just way too strong and makes jobs that offer little to no damage boosts in an awkward spot as they just don't bring enough damage to justify their spot (With some exceptions like some comps are running a BLM with SMN because Contagion is pretty sick for BLM)

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Originally Posted by Kalise

My guess is that it'll be some sort of BRD/MCH hybrid.

The 123 combo of MCH

With oGCD's and Songs of a BRD

I'm really curious as to how its utility will pan out though...

Since it sounds very BRD like in its description.

So I'm concerned that it and BRD will fall into a awful position in balance where either:

* BRD and DNC will share the same utilities (Passive crit boost, Battle Voice, Foe Requiem) and so whichever one does the highest personal DPS is the one that gets played all the time.

* BRD and DNC will have different utilities... Thus every party now wants BRD AND DNC limiting the rest of the composition to only 2 other DPS slots, due to how much tDPS these utilities bring.

Given the current state of DPS balance where party damage boosts are highly sought after because of how effective they are, not only due to amping the other DPS but also amping the Tanks and Healers to boot. Which makes party damage boosts just way too strong and makes jobs that offer little to no damage boosts in an awkward spot as they just don't bring enough damage to justify their spot (With some exceptions like some comps are running a BLM with SMN because Contagion is pretty sick for BLM)

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I won't be surprised if DNC's utility is more defensive(healing on hit was a big part of the job's popularity in XI), which would pretty much put the two jobs in the same spot RDM and BLM/SMN are right now. It could also depend more on the overall meta, since it seems like DNC is likely to do slashing instead of piercing.

I think they will give BRD, MCH, and DNC pretty much the same utilities and even out their damage. If they remove Slashing, Piercing, and Blunt damage and just make everything Physical or Magical then you would be able to take which ever job you wanted. Only thing that would be different about them would be how they play / feel.

hmmm....

BLM rooted caster
SMN semi-mobile caster
RDM semi-mobile caster

MCH highly-mobile ranged dps
BRD highly-mobile ranged dps
DNC ??? ranged dps


Assuming they are trying to retain some of the job identity with dances as buffs for the party... my guess is that DNC will be a rooted ranged dps. Perhaps it's buffs will be stronger than bard at the cost of movement during dance phases. I mean in my mind... you can't really run around while performing a specific dance... that changes the steps so the dance proper isn't really being performed anymore.

Of course not being able to do anything but dance during dances would also be weird and not really in the spirit of the DPS role... the only ability I can think of that requires complete PC inaction to maintain is AST Collective Unconscious (oh I guess BLU Diamondback too edit: oh and that thing that SAM has to build gauge...). So I'm thinking their GCD attacks (whether that's a 123 or individual attacks) will still work while dancing, but they won't be allowed to move without cancelling the current dance. While not dancing they'll be highly mobile, but then the game will be figuring out when and where to be positioned to safely use dances.

if i am not mistaken... wasn't it stated that DNC would offer up several party buffs?

personally, i would like to DNC as a mid-range combatant. it seems like it will be. it certainly would be cool and would put them in a unique position.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

if i am not mistaken... wasn't it stated that DNC would offer up several party buffs?

personally, i would like to DNC as a mid-range combatant. it seems like it will be. it certainly would be cool and would put them in a unique position.

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All they've said was it's a physical ranged DPS. And since all physical ranged DPS are DPS / support it's assumed it'll be the same. That and some of the lore on the main Shadowbringer's sight talks about inspiring people to fight on through dance or something.

I think Dancer will be simpler to play than Bard and Machinist. Much like how Red Mage is simpler than Black Mage and Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Even the RDM's super easy high DPS rotation at least also has the ability to rez every 2.5 seconds and cast a small heal...

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High dps? On average RDM is on the lower end of the DPS totem pole. It's in an okay spot, but your post makes it sound like it's competing with Samurai which...if the Samurai is of similar skill to the Red Mage, I doubt.

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Originally Posted by BiffWellington

I think Dancer will be simpler to play than Bard and Machinist. Much like how Red Mage is simpler than Black Mage and Summoner.

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How do you get simpler than bard? Just plays for you?

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Originally Posted by Final-Fantasy

Maybe it'll be like a ranged Ninja? Can you move and use actions at the same time i wonder....

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You'll almost certainly be able to move and use actions as the same time, from a gameplay perspective being able to move while using actions is the only major difference between ranged physical DPS and caster DPS.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

How do you get simpler than bard? Just plays for you?

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Be less proc-based, more deterministic rotation at a simple pace.

Do you think it will be as long ranged as BRD/MCH? Meaning the 25 yalm range? Or will it be more mid range because it's throwing?

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Do you think it will be as long ranged as BRD/MCH? Meaning the 25 yalm range? Or will it be more mid range because it's throwing?

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I have no reason to believe that its range will be any different. As otherwise that'd be something they'd have to try and balance around...

Also, if this is being based on the fact that melee jobs token ranged skill only has 15 yalm range... I still find it funny that as a Warrior/Dork Knight I can throw my entire body farther than I can toss a Tomahawk/pew a magic missile :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Do you think it will be as long ranged as BRD/MCH? Meaning the 25 yalm range? Or will it be more mid range because it's throwing?

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It could pretty easily be justified as them using wind-aspected aether to control the weapons.

I could actually see it having more of a SAM set up, say you have steps at the end of a combo or something, you use a "dance" based on what steps you've generated or some such. Then maybe the dance is like a cast.

I can see a dance either be something that is casted and lasts over time, something that is channeled, or something that is just simply casted (instant or not) and have an immediate effect with no duration. Ideally, I'd like a variation and have some examples from all three kinds. And if there is a fourth or fifth way, then have those too.

I expect them to be broken, first off. But before that, Melee DPS is the best example to look at for what to expect, since I think this demonstrates the way I think they want balance within the sub-roles.

NIN- Low DPS/High Support
DRG- Medium DPS/Medium Support
MNK- High DPS/Low Support
SAM- Higher DPS/No support

In Magical Ranged you already see this playing out too. RDM being similar to NIN on that spectrum, SMN being most similar to MNK, and BLM most similar to SAM. With physical ranged, I think you'll see it looking like this:

DNC- Low DPS/High Support
BRD- Medium DPS/Medium Support
MCH- High DPS/Low Support

That being said... What I expect?

I fully expect DNC to have something that rivals Trick Attack. Or, considering their different dances, maybe MULTIPLE ridiculous buffs.

Even though I think their gameplay won't be remotely like AST, I expect and think that's the most similar to what I expect from their buffs/debuffs. At minimum, I expect party-wide Haste, Damage Buffs, and maybe even significant CD reduction on skills (like Arrow used to be, but far more powerful).

I expect Slashing-Damage type, because I don't think they're willing to give up on damage-type debuffs yet. I think their exact line of thought will be that by bringing DNC, you naturally have no reason for DRG, therefore it's smarter to bring a NIN or SAM. Wonder if NIN gets to keep it's slashing debuff :thinking:?

I have no reason to believe, even in the absolute worst-case scenarios, that DNC will not be an immediate lock-in for parties, much like NIN. If I'm being honest, I think if DNC has good enough buffs, NIN might finally be dethroned. In the worst case scenario though, NIN is still good enough to where the meta party ends up being a toss-up between NIN/MNK/DNC/BLM (or SMN), and NIN/DRG/BRD (or MCH)/BLM (or SMN*)
*Bonus points if we have HW parties again, if MCH is busted.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

How do you get simpler than bard? Just plays for you?

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TBF, I'd say that RDM is simpler than Bard

I hope double-weave ain’t mandatory with Dancer but since its DEX-user ... so ... yeah .. not gonna keep my hopes up.

I just hope none of it's buffs need to target a party member like AST cards

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Originally Posted by Nominous

I expect them to be broken, first off. But before that, Melee DPS is the best example to look at for what to expect, since I think this demonstrates the way I think they want balance within the sub-roles.

NIN- Low DPS/High Support
DRG- Medium DPS/Medium Support
MNK- High DPS/Low Support
SAM- Higher DPS/No support

In Magical Ranged you already see this playing out too. RDM being similar to NIN on that spectrum, SMN being most similar to MNK, and BLM most similar to SAM. With physical ranged, I think you'll see it looking like this:

DNC- Low DPS/High Support
BRD- Medium DPS/Medium Support
MCH- High DPS/Low Support

That being said... What I expect?

I fully expect DNC to have something that rivals Trick Attack. Or, considering their different dances, maybe MULTIPLE ridiculous buffs.

Even though I think their gameplay won't be remotely like AST, I expect and think that's the most similar to what I expect from their buffs/debuffs. At minimum, I expect party-wide Haste, Damage Buffs, and maybe even significant CD reduction on skills (like Arrow used to be, but far more powerful).

I expect Slashing-Damage type, because I don't think they're willing to give up on damage-type debuffs yet. I think their exact line of thought will be that by bringing DNC, you naturally have no reason for DRG, therefore it's smarter to bring a NIN or SAM. Wonder if NIN gets to keep it's slashing debuff :thinking:?

I have no reason to believe, even in the absolute worst-case scenarios, that DNC will not be an immediate lock-in for parties, much like NIN. If I'm being honest, I think if DNC has good enough buffs, NIN might finally be dethroned. In the worst case scenario though, NIN is still good enough to where the meta party ends up being a toss-up between NIN/MNK/DNC/BLM (or SMN), and NIN/DRG/BRD (or MCH)/BLM (or SMN*)
*Bonus points if we have HW parties again, if MCH is busted.

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What if... they make BRD and MCH physical buffers and DNC be magical buffers?

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Originally Posted by Slirith

I just hope none of it's buffs need to target a party member like AST cards

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Oh man. I didn't even think of that. Dragon's Sight is such a pain on controller >< Really hope there are no single target buffs.

Thinking something like Ninja. Like Dance combos that give you or the team a buff (or debuff the enemy) With Combo Chakram attacks.

I hope to god there are no positionals!

I think it'll likely work as a counterpart to bard while bard buffs party the dancer could debuff enemies to make them easier to down. kind of like how dancer worked in fft

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Originally Posted by Nyvara

Thinking something like Ninja. Like Dance combos that give you or the team a buff (or debuff the enemy) With Combo Chakram attacks.

I hope to god there are no positionals!

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I think there's about zero chance of putting positionals on a ranged class, unless it ends up as a ranged+melee mix similar to RDM, but I think RDM had that aspect of its class mentioned in its reveal and there was no similar mention for DNC.

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

I think it'll likely work as a counterpart to bard while bard buffs party the dancer could debuff enemies to make them easier to down. kind of like how dancer worked in fft

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The mere fact that it uses throwing weapons makes me think it'll be more like XI than anything. I think that's the only iteration that used throwing weapons at all, never mind chakrams. Official art of their FFXI equipment:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/..._Equipment.jpg