I Would Have Preferred The Dev Team Use Resources On A New Healer Than On Blue Mage

Like many members of the community, I too was expecting a brand new healer class. Unfortunately, that’s not happening. I’m still holding out hope that they surprise us and announce a new healer class but that seems unlikely.
I do give credit to the dev team for always trying to give the player base a new experience. We saw this with Blue Mage. But now I’m wondering if the resource to make Blue Mage took away from the resource to make a new healing class. I don’t have any proof or context of the ongoings of the dev team but if this was the case, then I feel like Yoshi and team really dropped the ball.
We didn’t get another healing class, we got Blue Mage but as a limited class, and now we have several people from the community going into Shadowbringers with their hyped completely deflated. I still love this game. And no I’m not going to unsub or participate in the childish healer strike. I just want to communicate that I’m disapointed and I am not walking into Shadowbringers with the same hype as a few months ago.

I'm gonna make a wild guess here that Blue Mage was supposed to be the third job in shadow bringers, but the designers couldn't make their concept work and threw it away as a "limited job", and that dancer was originally supposed to be a healer but got turned into DPS since that role is more popular.

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Originally Posted by SabrinaR

I'm gonna make a wild guess here that Blue Mage was supposed to be the third job in shadow bringers, but the designers couldn't make their concept work and threw it away as a "limited job", and that dancer was originally supposed to be a healer but got turned into DPS since that role is more popular.

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Hmm considering how old some leaks were that predicted certain things I kind of doubt this.

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Originally Posted by ZODSTER

Like many members of the community, I too was expecting a brand new healer class. Unfortunately, that’s not happening. I’m still holding out hope that they surprise us and announce a new healer class but that seems unlikely.
I do give credit to the dev team for always trying to give the player base a new experience. We saw this with Blue Mage. But now I’m wondering if the resource to make Blue Mage took away from the resource to make a new healing class. I don’t have any proof or context of the ongoings of the dev team but if this was the case, then I feel like Yoshi and team really dropped the ball.
We didn’t get another healing class, we got Blue Mage but as a limited class, and now we have several people from the community going into Shadowbringers with their hyped completely deflated. I still love this game. And no I’m not going to unsub or participate in the childish healer strike. I just want to communicate that I’m disapointed and I am not walking into Shadowbringers with the same hype as a few months ago.

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You're right though. There isn't any connection between developing BLU and the adding of another standard healer job. Much more likely is that they didn't want a repeat of what happened in Heavensward. Where all three jobs came out as weak and had to go through different balancing adjustments to make them viable. And to this day, they still haven't reached that goal seeing as how DRK and MCH are often described as the worst in their respective roles.

I feel bad for the people who wanted a new healer, but grasping at straws for a justification probably isn't going to make it any less disappointing. On the bright side though, you do get a new ranged DPS with support in the vein of BRD. And of course a cool-looking, flashy tank in Gunbreaker.

Call it a stretch but there's always the possibility of them adding a job in a patch instead of expansion, similar to NIN and BLU. That, and boy Yoshida sure drew alot of pointless attention to that hammer. Sort of like he wanted us to notice it. It's only showed up in a handful of games but green mage uses hammers and has a few interesting spells for a healer role. If nothing else, there's next expansion. But yeah, I understand how the hopes of the healers out there have been layed low at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Daisy

Call it a stretch but there's always the possibility of them adding a job in a patch instead of expansion, similar to NIN and BLU. That, and boy Yoshida sure drew alot of pointless attention to that hammer. Sort of like he wanted us to notice it. It's only showed up in a handful of games but green mage uses hammers and has a few interesting spells for a healer role. If nothing else, there's next expansion. But yeah, I understand how the hopes of the healers out there have been layed low at the moment.

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I thought it was odd how they were fixating on Gaia's weapon, it seemed like they were alluding to something.
I get the impression that it was a balancing pain in the ass when they added NIN back in the day. So a brand new standard job late into an expansion seems very unlikely. Maybe the hammer is in reference to an existing job being able to wield a hammer now? A reworked WHM will act more like a Cleric. Now that would be surprising.

If anything, I assume a new limited job will be added near the end of the expansion. Perhaps a hammer wielding BST? So many theories, so little time.

That would be interesting. Classes essentially getting access to a second weapon type. Dancers were said to have throwing weapons but their animations look like they were made with chakram in mind. We know the battle system is getting a(nother) rework so we'll have to wait and see.

It would be interesting if they scrap blue mage (keep level 50 progress for those that got that far) and reworked it into a healer for Shadowbringers. Probably too little time left for that. Make it similar to scholar as a dps/heal but with a focus on debuffs. Just an idea.

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Originally Posted by KylePearlsand

That would be interesting. Classes essentially getting access to a second weapon type.

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They already tried this. See: CNJ/WHM and THM/BLM wands and shields.

Then they abandoned it.

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Originally Posted by Daisy

Call it a stretch but there's always the possibility of them adding a job in a patch instead of expansion, similar to NIN and BLU. That, and boy Yoshida sure drew alot of pointless attention to that hammer. Sort of like he wanted us to notice it. It's only showed up in a handful of games but green mage uses hammers and has a few interesting spells for a healer role. If nothing else, there's next expansion. But yeah, I understand how the hopes of the healers out there have been layed low at the moment.

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It's possible but I dunno... Given that they don't much like trying to do any major changes to jobs in patches, I wouldn't put much hope in them releasing a full job in a patch.

As for the Hammer...

So far, the only jobs that have used hammers have been, Warrior, Berserker, Onion Knight, Chocobo Knight, White Mage, Green Mage and Viking.

I don't know about you, but Gaia's hammer looks an awful lot like it has been inspired by some Norse designs. Which could suggest Viking. Other than they likely don't want to add another mDPS...

But who knows... Green Mage could be cool and would fit well with the Viera coming.

Or it could just be that Gaia with her Hammer ends up being important for the Eden storyline for some reason...

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Originally Posted by ThunderGodThor

It would be interesting if they scrap blue mage (keep level 50 progress for those that got that far) and reworked it into a healer for Shadowbringers. Probably too little time left for that. Make it similar to scholar as a dps/heal but with a focus on debuffs. Just an idea.

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It would take more than 3 months to create a job from what is effectively scratch, yes. They'd have White Wind, two sets, and 3 wands to work with... and that's it.

To be honest, I rather BLU not be here and come later as a full job and that effort put into a healer for 5.0.

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Originally Posted by SabrinaR

I'm gonna make a wild guess here that Blue Mage was supposed to be the third job in shadow bringers, but the designers couldn't make their concept work and threw it away as a "limited job", and that dancer was originally supposed to be a healer but got turned into DPS since that role is more popular.

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Naoki Yoshida: The release of Blue Mage did not fall far from my expectations — the job was not meant to be subject to the standard rules of FF14 gameplay that players are used to, but rather it was meant to give players freedom in the way they approach the job. That is why it is a “limited job” only in the sense of content matching; there is no limit to the type of play style, and that was the initial concept behind it.

(Nothing really says he wanted it to be a healer of any kind honestly, after looking at a lot of the concept interviews over the last several months leading into BLU's announcement).

It has taken them 4 years to try and fix any healing balance issues, but according to a recent interview, they need 2 more years before adding another healer. When you have such critical balancing changes such as this:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...19464222/1.png

God only knows what resources and budget they would need if they added another healer!

/s

I am actually a tank main and a huge fan of blue mage and was expecting to main it when it was released as a job (especially if it managed to be a tank). But seeing as how boring blue mage ended up being, not to mention I haven’t seen anyone including myself even play the class since a week after it’s release, I would immediately give blue mage up to give healers a new class to play. 6 years is way too long to leave them hanging, especially it being the toughest and most critical class in the game.

I really hope the devs realize blue is just not fun at all and stop putting resources into it so they can give out healers some love.

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Originally Posted by Tribezer0

I am actually a tank main and a huge fan of blue mage and was expecting to main it when it was released as a job (especially if it managed to be a tank). But seeing as how boring blue mage ended up being, not to mention I haven’t seen anyone including myself even play the class since a week after it’s release, I would immediately give blue mage up to give healers a new class to play. 6 years is way too long to leave them hanging, especially it being the toughest and most critical class in the game.

I really hope the devs realize blue is just not fun at all and stop putting resources into it so they can give out healers some love.

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I'm not following the logic here. Shadowbringers will add no healer job, so to compensate for that, SE should scrap the limited job system and it's purpose and turn BLU, a traditionally multi-role/hybrid/support job, into a strict healer. For some reason or other. I mean I wouldn't like it, but a DPS (with some support) designation for a standard BLU would make more sense.
Why not, I don't know, create and add a healer job instead? I've seen some people eager for Geomancer or Chemist. I don't know how those will work out, but that's what theorycrafting is for.

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Originally Posted by Auryan

I'm not following the logic here. Shadowbringers will add no healer job, so to compensate for that, SE should scrap the limited job system and it's purpose and turn BLU, a traditionally multi-role/hybrid/support job, into a strict healer. For some reason or other. I mean I wouldn't like it, but a DPS (with some support) designation for a standard BLU would make more sense.
Why not, I don't know, create and add a healer job instead? I've seen some people eager for Geomancer or Chemist. I don't know how those will work out, but that's what theorycrafting is for.

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I think you're misreading.

I don't believe they're saying "Make BLU into Healer"

They're saying "Leave BLU to rot and instead put resources into a new Healer"

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Originally Posted by Kalise

I think you're misreading.

I don't believe they're saying "Make BLU into Healer"

They're saying "Leave BLU to rot and instead put resources into a new Healer"

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You may be right. Though both options are unreasonable.

I really do feel for healer mains with the announcement today. You've gone through all of Stormblood with no new job to play with and now will have that repeated in Shadowbringers. BUT I do think that this sets up the company well in the long-term.

I think that this now lets them alternate between a new tank and a new healer every expansion and use the second job spot to alternate between the three different play styles of DPS. Remember, it's important to consider that just because there IS a DPS job that it won't appeal to all players simply because it's a DPS. For example, people who prefer playing casters or melee DPS had nothing new to do through all of Heavensward, in addition to some of the jobs just being sub par (monk) for that expansion leading to fewer play style options rather than the same or more.

If a new healer is added before the expansion following Shadowbringers, then I'll be happy for those who get to play it, of course, but if not, I see no reason it won't be added then.

I'm a bit meh on BLU. I think i'm level 14...

The problem with a new healer is what is its USP:
WHM: standard healer with HoTs
SCH: bubble healer... with pet.
AST: bit of both
Fourth?

Personally I'd like something a bit more HoT orientated like Resto druid in WoW. (Yes I used the W word), or Warden if you liked Rift.

They should have committed to add BLU as a proper job or not at all. But I don't think BLU took away from healer resources.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

I'm a bit meh on BLU. I think i'm level 14...

The problem with a new healer is what is its USP:
WHM: standard healer with HoTs
SCH: bubble healer... with pet.
AST: bit of both
Fourth?

Personally I'd like something a bit more HoT orientated like Resto druid in WoW. (Yes I used the W word), or Warden if you liked Rift.

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Diurnal AST and WHM probably revolve more around HoTs than Resto druids at this point.

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Originally Posted by ZODSTER

Like many members of the community, I too was expecting a brand new healer class. Unfortunately, that’s not happening. I’m still holding out hope that they surprise us and announce a new healer class but that seems unlikely.
I do give credit to the dev team for always trying to give the player base a new experience. We saw this with Blue Mage. But now I’m wondering if the resource to make Blue Mage took away from the resource to make a new healing class. I don’t have any proof or context of the ongoings of the dev team but if this was the case, then I feel like Yoshi and team really dropped the ball.
We didn’t get another healing class, we got Blue Mage but as a limited class, and now we have several people from the community going into Shadowbringers with their hyped completely deflated. I still love this game. And no I’m not going to unsub or participate in the childish healer strike. I just want to communicate that I’m disapointed and I am not walking into Shadowbringers with the same hype as a few months ago.

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oh heck no!!! blue mage is a god send. a new healer is a waste of resources as they are boring to play and the least played class. they are working them in may to show how they changed. we really needed blu and a range but healer needs more time in the oven so when we get a healer it will actually be different and not just spamming heals with new animations

Its disappointing, but Yoshi P did say Blue mage wouldn't be what the playerbase was expecting or wanting. BLU was a fun little distraction, but that's about it.

SE sure wasted resources with Blue Mage as a limited job, it's pretty much useless in real gameplay, it's a pity because the outfit is really pretty!...


Dancer being a DPS makes sense to me because of the weapons the job uses, it would have been weird for such acrobatic movements to heal, it would make little sense and it's definitely nothing like I expected, my idea of Dancer was that of Final Fantasy X but even there the job is not a healer but a de-buffer or saboteur like in Final Fantasy XIII!...

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Originally Posted by guardin

oh heck no!!! blue mage is a god send. a new healer is a waste of resources as they are boring to play and the least played class. they are working them in may to show how they changed. we really needed blu and a range but healer needs more time in the oven so when we get a healer it will actually be different and not just spamming heals with new animations

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This is likely the true answer. Although, I disagree that healing is boring. It's more like it doesn't appeal to a lot of players.

They want to be the hero. Not the support guy. If you know what I mean.

Also, players already say astrologians are too much like white mages. If you think about it, what type of healer could SE create which isn't like an existing class/job?

Many people have suggested Chemist but how would that be different from Alchemist?

The only thing that pops in my mind, is a healer who would sacrifice their health to cast spells and use mana to regain a portion of their life back. Playing one would involve maintaining a balance between your health and your remaining mana.

from the NA fanfest they kind of made it sound like blue mage was almost entirely done by the one guy as a sort of project of love and never would have been implemented otherwise

I can guarantee that, had they done that, people would currently by crying and complaining that Blue Mage was not added.

Kalise don't hurt me with that Green Mage Healer before functional Blue Mage possibility. D:
I'd have to share Rei's disdain if such were the outcome...

This is one piece for the healers though, and one that they should read, coming from a recent interview with Yoshida:

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As for the healers, it is difficult to balance them, so I would like to focus on balancing the existing jobs in 5.0 before adding new ones.

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Yoshi-P

Now compare it to this one:

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Naoki Yoshida: The Blue Mage is only able to acquire balance because it is what we now call a “limited job,” and there are no plans to remove the limited aspect from the job.

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They're using the same flawed excuse. The pretense of "balance"...

Trust me, they're just doing what they want and are merely attempting to justify their decisions, with bad results.

Expect Healers to turn into a "limited job" experience everyone! /s

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

SE sure wasted resources with Blue Mage as a limited job, it's pretty much useless in real gameplay, it's a pity because the outfit is really pretty!...


Dancer being a DPS makes sense to me because of the weapons the job uses, it would have been weird for such acrobatic movements to heal, it would make little sense and it's definitely nothing like I expected, my idea of Dancer was that of Final Fantasy X but even there the job is not a healer but a de-buffer or saboteur like in Final Fantasy XIII!...

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I think you meant XI since X didn't had job roles

I don't think it's quite as simple as no BLU = new healer.

The reason Yoshida gave for no new healer is that it is quite difficult to balance them while also trying to keep them unique. And he recognizes that even now the balance between WHM/SCH/AST is kinda non-existent. Thus he wanted to focus on creating a better balance between the 3 existing healers before trying to add a 4th.

On the flip side, 3 tanks by default throws the balance off kilter due to OT vs MT. Which is why they decided early that one of the new jobs was definitely going to be tank.

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Originally Posted by guardin

oh heck no!!! blue mage is a god send. a new healer is a waste of resources as they are boring to play and the least played class. they are working them in may to show how they changed. we really needed blu and a range but healer needs more time in the oven so when we get a healer it will actually be different and not just spamming heals with new animations

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Hell no. Blu IS a waste of resources. You have niche content and can’t even do majority of the existing content with it. Healers are not boring, and I’d argue that if you played them properly you’d see that. We are far more than just heal spammers, and without us you wouldn’t be able to stay alive long enough to clear raids for example. We are paying customers just like everyone else. Your $ does not matter more than ours. If anything dps are boring as hell. Literally the same as your argument. You are literally spamming skills with different coats of paint to reduce a monsters hp.

Given how DPS-focused the game is, that same logic applies to healers except once in awhile you might have to push a button that isn't Stone/Malefic/Broil. Also a DoT or two somewhere in there.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

from the NA fanfest they kind of made it sound like blue mage was almost entirely done by the one guy as a sort of project of love and never would have been implemented otherwise

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I believe at the Tokyo Fanfest they elaborated more on that and that the guy who made BLU isn't even part of the team that works on jobs, but a different team altogether.

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Originally Posted by Auryan

You may be right. Though both options are unreasonable.

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The latter is exactly the case though.

Hence why BLU's update isn't coming with 5.0 and instead coming with 5.1 (Or maybe later) because BLU is merely side content and they don't want it to conflict with actual content.

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Originally Posted by Anesteria

Kalise don't hurt me with that Green Mage Healer before functional Blue Mage possibility. D:
I'd have to share Rei's disdain if such were the outcome...

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Well, Yoshida has since stated that they're not planning a new healer in ShB and that Gaia's weapon was not alluding to any such job reveal.

So, there's no possibility of a Green Mage before at least 6.0.

Whether or not BLU becomes a functional job is still TBD. According to Yoshida, as you've quoted, there are no plans to make BLU functional and thus it's destined to be "Limited" forever...

But then again, he also said they wouldn't do gender locked races again and well... That was apparently a lie.

One could hope that 6.0 brings something like Green Mage, unlimited Blue Mage and 1 other brand new job (Another physical rDPS would bring us up to 4 jobs in each role category) - For a total of 20 jobs which would fill up our Job Crystal section in the Armoury Chest exactly.

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Originally Posted by Anesteria

They're using the same flawed excuse. The pretense of "balance"...

Trust me, they're just doing what they want and are merely attempting to justify their decisions, with bad results.

Expect Healers to turn into a "limited job" experience everyone! /s

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To be fair, the "Balance" pretense also falls flat.

When you consider:

* Tanks are considered unbalanced because the meta doesn't include DRK and is mostly about WAR + PLD.
Tanks get a new job in ShB.

* Physical rDPS are considered unbalanced because MCH keeps finding it hard to find a place to exist when BRD brings all this support that MCH doesn't.
Physical rDPS get a new job in ShB.

* mDPS were (Also, are) considered unbalanced because DRG and NIN provided so much party DPS that MNK couldn't keep up with.
mDPS got a new job in SB

Ignoring the fact that healers have been unbalanced since the release of AST given it was basically just WHM but with more stuff, meaning they've had all of HW and all of SB to work on healer balance and apparently now they need all of ShB too...

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I don't think it's quite as simple as no BLU = new healer.

The reason Yoshida gave for no new healer is that it is quite difficult to balance them while also trying to keep them unique. And he recognizes that even now the balance between WHM/SCH/AST is kinda non-existent. Thus he wanted to focus on creating a better balance between the 3 existing healers before trying to add a 4th.

On the flip side, 3 tanks by default throws the balance off kilter due to OT vs MT. Which is why they decided early that one of the new jobs was definitely going to be tank.

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Honestly, this could have been the same with healers.
We have "regen" & "shield" type of healer.
Remove Noct Sec of AST, and we would have 2 "regen" vs 1 "shield"
Or if you prefer 2 main healers (WHM, AST) / 1 off healer (SCH) as it was named before.
DCN could have become a "shield" (off) healer.

If I was told that BLU could come now but be limited, or wait an expac or 2 to have BLU as a full job, I would have 100% have waited.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

Hell no. Blu IS a waste of resources. You have niche content and can’t even do majority of the existing content with it. Healers are not boring, and I’d argue that if you played them properly you’d see that. We are far more than just heal spammers, and without us you wouldn’t be able to stay alive long enough to clear raids for example. We are paying customers just like everyone else. Your $ does not matter more than ours. If anything dps are boring as hell. Literally the same as your argument. You are literally spamming skills with different coats of paint to reduce a monsters hp.

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I do think Guardin may have been joking/sarcastic there.

However your post does make me think of something.
Queue Times for DF and content overall that healers are required.
After the announcement of DNC being DPS and no info on a healer. Now seeming we won't get a healer potentially for yet another 2yrs.. I already told my FC that outside of when we're doing content I "May" do healing (I am/was a healer main until friday), I will no longer do any healer roles in DF. How many other healer mains are now just going to step away from that and go dps seeing that it's where the attention is going too for the most part in the last 2 expansions. They state the whole point of balance as the reason why we had no healer but they used the same excuse for tanks, yet tanks are getting a new one.

I doubt there will be that many healers who will just throw in the towel and walk away from their chosen roles but, seeing the % of the playerbase that actually main heals.. I would imagine any dip in that will just make queue times even worse for everyone overall no? Could be the Devs aren't worried, nor care.. who is to know what goes on behind the closed doors of Square HQ. I could hypothesize on any number of reasons why we have no healer, just like the odd excuses of why genderlock and numerous QoL things getting ignored (we're 2019 and I'm still not able to add multiple facepaints on a character due to .. 'limitations').

Anyways I'm rambling now.. i'll be quiet.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

I think you meant XI since X didn't had job roles

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It's actually Final Fantasy X-2 which is part of the Final Fantasy X saga, Dancer already existed so don't try to tell me what I mean!...

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Originally Posted by Kalise

>For reference<

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One can always dream.

But yeah I was kidding about the Green Mage. Though I think that if it ever became an actual Healer in the game, it would be pretty nice.

In regards to their statements, it's not really the first time they argued a point but didn't "officially" hold a decisive stance on something, only to then go back on what they were saying.

The genderlock, however, is actually a situation where they did break one of their policies. It should have been the biggest argument for those who were upset with the new races, since it was the one where Square Enix was at fault. The excuses given in that regard were also quite shoddy so I'm surprised (or maybe not) that they didn't pick up on this.

The "balance" will never work as an excuse, because perfection is simply impossible. There will never be a time when every class is perfectly balanced while also maintaining their identity, it just can't work. One has to look at what happens in every other game, but this doesn't discourage them from introducing FULL new classes.

Which is why it doesn't make sense when they come up with these excuses that fail the second they're presented because they're just so Level 1.

The thing is introducing more and more classes will make it that much harder to achieve a decent balancce, so what they're doing is, once again, digging their own grave and undermining their own logic.

I'm personally hoping with them paying attention to Gaia's weapon we get a melee dps healer with a mace. Like other Fantasy games version of a Paladin.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

It's actually Final Fantasy X-2 which is part of the Final Fantasy X saga, Dancer already existed so don't try to tell me what I mean!...

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If you mean songstress by all means, but that wasn't just dancer.
However we do not speak of that game