Vote kick, early pulls, and disruptive behavior

People who wants troll entire alliances will just pull bosses to avoid the vote kick enabled. And of course they don't roll items so they get a 5 minutes "immunity" on top of that.

How to avoid that?

Sometime if you are fast enough you may trigger vote-kick before it goes locked, but it must not be a race to who is faster in the draw, 'tho.

Only option here today is filing reports... but the damage is already done.

My suggestion:
when chests comes, the next step/passage/door/whatever keeps locked until all items are handled down.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

My suggestion:
when chests comes, the next step/passage/door/whatever keeps locked until all items are handled down.

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That would probably just result in even easier trolling. One person in a 24-man doesn't roll and the entire raid is stuck in place for the next 5 minutes. That sure sounds fun.

Ask the alliance to wait for your roll timer to pass and to not enter the fight, especially if the person has been AFKing or auto attacking. I can honestly say I have yet to be in an alliance where the other two teams didn't want to wait so we could vote dismiss someone. Really, most of these things are easily resolved by communicating with your fellow players.

A much simpler solution that wouldn't lead to giving trolls even more tools to troll with would be to simply reduce the loot timer to like... 2-3 minutes? The trash packs between bosses take about that much time to get past, so this would sync up nicely and offer a substantial window of kickopportunity in between the trash pull and the next boss.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Only option here today is filing reports... but the damage is already done.

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Maybe so, but people who troll tend to do it often (and the complain on the forums why they got banned for saying a single Bad Word like we'd believe that), so reporting them can help get them out and prevent them from doing it in the future, since you're probably not the only one who's experienced it.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Ask the alliance to wait for your roll timer to pass and to not enter the fight, especially if the person has been AFKing or auto attacking. I can honestly say I have yet to be in an alliance where the other two teams didn't want to wait so we could vote dismiss someone. Really, most of these things are easily resolved by communicating with your fellow players.

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But there's nothing to stop the troll from initiating the next fight just as the timer expires.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

But there's nothing to stop the troll from initiating the next fight just as the timer expires.

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In which case you'd just let them die, then initiate the kick.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

That would probably just result in even easier trolling. One person in a 24-man doesn't roll and the entire raid is stuck in place for the next 5 minutes. That sure sounds fun.

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That can happen just once, you see in the logs who last rolled, and you have time for the vote kick before he initiate combat again. Better lose 5 minutes than the whole duty.

I tend to deal with it by standing around doing nothing. Counter-troll the troll. They can't do combat on their own and loot rolls have timers.

I do inform the others that this is what I'm going to do so they know I'm not trolling as well. And of course so they can join in so it works. I have only done this around three times in my several years of playing this game though. I rarely feel a strong need to kick someone.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

My suggestion:
when chests comes, the next step/passage/door/whatever keeps locked until all items are handled down.

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Then they could troll by preventing people from doing the instance by forcing them to sit there for a few minutes before they can continue to finish the content. Sure it means you can eventually initiate the kick but it's not really solving the issue as it would merely be replacing it with another one.

How does one "early pull" in an alliance raid?

Those dungeons are extremely long, with the most down time (not fighting any enemies) in the game, and you want it to go even slower? Everyone has access to sprint, no reason not to use it. I praise anyone who makes a dungeon go faster.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

How does one "early pull" in an alliance raid?

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Last night I almost wiped on Atamos because someone pulled early and half the raid automatically got sent to A. B only had 4 people and we had to wait for the other sides to kill before getting off the pad to kill our own.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

But there's nothing to stop the troll from initiating the next fight just as the timer expires.

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Only to die as 23 other people respect the team's wish to vote dismiss the person. Then the vote can be commenced because there's no fight going on and no loot to protect them.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

How does one "early pull" in an alliance raid?

Those dungeons are extremely long, with the most down time (not fighting any enemies) in the game, and you want it to go even slower? Everyone has access to sprint, no reason not to use it. I praise anyone who makes a dungeon go faster.

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Well ipso facto early pulls can still wipe the entire alliance so how is that making it go faster?

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Only to die as 23 other people respect the team's wish to vote dismiss the person. Then the vote can be commenced because there's no fight going on and no loot to protect them.

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Pretty much. I've been in a few alliances where people have gotten so fed up with one person that they let them die to the boss they're trying to pull just to get them out of the instance. Doesn't always happen but there are times where you can piss off a group of 23 other people so badly that they'd halt all momentum for the raid to be done with you.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

That would probably just result in even easier trolling. One person in a 24-man doesn't roll and the entire raid is stuck in place for the next 5 minutes. That sure sounds fun.

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Add a display similar to the ready check that list everyone and places a green check next to those that have rolled on everything available to them. This would show who is just sitting there not rolling.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

Last night I almost wiped on Atamos because someone pulled early and half the raid automatically got sent to A. B only had 4 people and we had to wait for the other sides to kill before getting off the pad to kill our own.

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I'm sorry, but to be honest...that usually happens if:

1) Someone was dead at the end of the previous fight. Happens. There's the delay of going through the shortcut and all the loading screens.
2) Someone is not moving when there is no reason not to.

Now, no one can blame people that died and weren't resurrected before battle ended (and healers often don't resurrect after battle ended to avoid the weakness, even though in there it hardly matters anymore). But it's unlikely that the amount of people dead could reasonably cause a wipe. And if yes?! Well, why not have alliance A members go to B or C to make up for their members that died and will spawn in the A's zone?! Takes a bit of communication on the way "Hey, we have one delayed in B, send one from A here.".

The people that can be blamed are the ones that waste time after the last fight and not move to the next one. There's auto-walk in this game. Use it. You can pick stuff you want from the chests and STILL progress through the dungeon. You can ESC your chat in the middle of typing it to do whatever stuff you want and what you did type already won't disappear either. These functions are available to everyone, so there's really no reason for people that didn't die to be so far behind. Loading screen in itself is not that long unless the server is very busy.


As for all the trolling related to loot, it's everything solvable by a very, very simple function that free to play games use since ages ago. Have the rolls count...past leaving the instance...Yay?! I mean, why DON'T they?! In other games, if you're not physically available for the loot for which you qualified at the moment it's distributed, it's done so by mail or directly to inventory as normal. Why can't we roll and leave the dungeon and our roll would just be compared as normal with the other ones?! It's not like the items exist within the instance. They don't exist anywhere until spawned. It's enough that the instance alone exists to keep history of rolls. If everyone leaves?! Then the timer ends (maybe give 30sec more or so) and those that didn't roll default to a pass like normal. Simple, really. Kicking wouldn't be a problem then either. You can kick someone and they still could roll for their loot, so it couldn't be used to deny loot that already dropped either.

On the Atomos fight in Labyrinth (I think?), does it automatically pull A to the right and C to the left like it does in Rabanastre on the split paths? If it does, maybe people could adjust and have A go to the right and C to the left so if people need to be teleported in, they will meet their own party.

I think that on Atomos in the Labyrinth, everyone goes to the left-most part no matter what if they are spawned by the system. Since that's where alliance A is normally going, that's why A members going to B or C zones will solve the problem if the group communicates.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

How does one "early pull" in an alliance raid?

Those dungeons are extremely long, with the most down time (not fighting any enemies) in the game, and you want it to go even slower? Everyone has access to sprint, no reason not to use it. I praise anyone who makes a dungeon go faster.

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You know there are people that use something like a opener and it is extremly annoying if someone decides to instantly pull the boss. I know some people don't know what openers are but still show some respect to people that try to play properly.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

You know there are people that use something like a opener and it is extremly annoying if someone decides to instantly pull the boss. I know some people don't know what openers are but still show some respect to people that try to play properly.

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That's true, but for many classes, those openers include skills on rather long cooldown. That may eat 30+sec of time. At that point it's putting the cart before the horse.

Except on-level Savage/Extreme/Ultimate, the difference between starting 15sec-30sec earlier without opener and waiting for everyone to get ready for their perfect opener is actually very much in advantage of starting earlier. Proper opener is superior literally ONLY if it will allow skipping of a difficult phase (not needed on older content) or prevent an enrage (not needed on anything below current Savage/Extreme/Ultimate content). And you can actually do that "opener" when the skill will get off cooldown too, you know. It's pure math.

PS: Openers may be annoying to tanks that are new/low-geared since they burst a ton of enmity that the tank may not be fully prepared for. Especially since there are people with their cool openers that "don't have that off-global cooldown slot" for Diversion etc.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

That's true, but for many classes, those openers include skills on rather long cooldown. That may eat 30+sec of time. At that point it's putting the cart before the horse.

Except on-level Savage/Extreme/Ultimate, the difference between starting 15sec-30sec earlier without opener and waiting for everyone to get ready for their perfect opener is actually very much in advantage of starting earlier. Proper opener is superior literally ONLY if it will allow skipping of a difficult phase (not needed on older content) or prevent an enrage (not needed on anything below current Savage/Extreme/Ultimate content). And you can actually do that "opener" when the skill will get off cooldown too, you know. It's pure math.

PS: Openers may be annoying to tanks that are new/low-geared since they burst a ton of enmity that the tank may not be fully prepared for. Especially since there are people with their cool openers that "don't have that off-global cooldown slot" for Diversion etc.

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Most classes are completly fine with 15 seconds, its not too long and not to short and it also doesn't hurt anyone if there is a pulltimer. Also a proper opener will lead to the boss dying faster which means less dmg to mitigate and less mess ups. I know most people can't be bothered with playing properly but that is not the topic here, especially not these intelligent people who don't use diversion cause "u don't pay ma sub brah".

If we're talking about 24 man duties to be honest aside from the last chest and intentionally trying to get people to leave by not rolling, most of the trolling I've encountered on these duties is performed by 1 entire party in the alliance intentionally messing up a mechanic to cause a wipe.