Yotsuyu, Fordola, syndrom of "a good writting"? (spoil)

Hello

Progressing in SB around probably 80% of the main story, a good way after ala mhigo freedom, i d like to hear your feel about those two antagonnist.

Until now SB was a kind of ARR with the narrative, very boring, with annoying caracter like lyse, bad guy cliché, odds really "déjà vu" quest and map not at all original;,(i dont look for an asian turism tour)
and i dont know what happened since Zenos defeat, it feel like the developper chose to hire some writter!

First i really liked the arc of Nanamo where she learn in insight scene, to becom an automnic ruler, including even the wtf godbert in there lore (where i thought it was just a crazy creation which cant be integrate in the real story) with very interesting argument about politic to do with immigrant.

Ok so what about those two women?

I dont know for you, but i like them both, as antagonnist they got an interesting background with mature topic. Also i respect them so more than this joke of "lyse" cause they have something, they look like very strong willed women, with very tough convincing feel about their choice and their way to reach their goal.

Fordola is just great, she doesnt fear Zenos, like 80% of the people working for him, she assumes her decsion, all of them, when she failed, when she took the decision to kill her brother in arm, she doesnt regret her choice to reach her goal, be accepted as a human with same right in the empire. Nothing seems stop her, and she doesnt flee. Of course we can discuss about moral stuff, but here i salute more her way to be honnest with herself on her action, and be somone who acte instead "crying, complaining"

Yotsuyu

To be honnest, i didnt expect such treatment of her character, bring her back in a "kind" of children mood, (childhood that she never got and it seem she would like have got) All the topic about her past, is really mature, i mean the narrativ present her story in a kind of "hard way mode" meaning it doesnt try to make feel pity for her, but show you how crual and cold was her reality.

When the guy tell about her life in the "whorehouse", where we can easy imagine her daylies, how she grinded the social ladder to be free of this condition. and of course thos "goeler" which at this level werent never parent, but torturer and criminal. All this is lay out with something cold, that even main character do not pay much attention to it, just Alisaie mention her feel about one time.

Those topic are really mature and speak heavely about "children" right, and women statu in some traditionnal society. Of course what she did is unforgivable, however, those who built her as monster were so more evil than she sound never be, i mean, it is just like if she looked for a few love in her whole life, and all she got was cruelty.

SB remaining very bad in many aspect for me, but some stuff are savable it seems. And jesus, why scene sound better when lyse is not here???


Whats your feel about those two caracter?

I liked both Fordola and Yotsuyu.... though I must admit I like Yotsuyu a bit more because of her character arc. It took me completely by surprise when she came back childlike and I was really rooting for her to get a happy ending with Gosestu. Sure she did a lot of really horrifying things, but she was clearly as much a victim as anyone else... especially being cast off as she was by her family and never being given a chance to be a child. I hated how her brother destroyed that with his schemes. Fordola, on the other hand.... man oh man. I respect her for owning her decisions and actions. She embraced her path heart and soul, regardless of how much it destroyed her to do so.

I enjoyed the Stormblood storyline because it did a great job of showcasing that women can be strong just like men. And yea, in the case of Yotsuyu and Fordola, that strength empowered them to do very horrible things, but it was great to see. In a lot of ways, the three main women in Stormblood are foils of each other... Fordola showing what happens when you devote yourself to a path at the expense of all else, Yotsuyu showing how the scars of the past can twist a person even many years later, and Lyse kinda brings traits of the other two into one person and shows that you can devote yourself to a cause without sacrificing your ideals and overcoming personal tragedy can be achieved without letting that tragedy taint you.

I like them both though for me Fordola was trying to win a losing battle as almost every garlean looks down on any non garlean. She'd never be seen as an equal no matter how high she got. Fordola is also one of the few people who through her man made echo saw what we've been through and all the hardships we've endured and brought up probably one of the best points so far about the Wol. In how in the seven hells is our character still "sane" and still able to do what we do with so little breaks. I like that now she is having to deal with the other effects of having an echo and I guess learning some empathy and a wanting to live. Hopefully she is brought back even if it's just a little bit in the second half of 4.55's story because We could really use someone like her right now.

I think the only thing I didn't like about Yotsuyu is the fact she didn't die earlier. I'm fine with how they handled her after the fact but there are a lot of people not staying dead. To the point where a lot of people are starting to feel like it doesn't matter. When you already are dealing with enemies where you have to kill them with a crapton of aether and when "normal" people are also cheating death you just kind of shrug.

The Hildibrand stuff might be for laughs, but they do sort of exist outside of that bubble and Godbert does have a seat as part of the syndicate after they tried to kill him in 1.0's Hilidbrand all because I guess they didn't want someone as odd as him part of it. Also if you did all of the side quests in Bronze Lake you'd of met Godbert there and oiled him up. XD

I liked Yotsuyu and I thought she deserved her revenge. I think if the story was told from her perspective from the beginning we would have been on her side. In fact, after learning about how she came to be so tormented and how those terrible little villages allow and presumably continue to allow that to happen to people made me want to help her...they all deserve to burn.

Lyse...Lyse was just done wrong. It's supposed to be a coming of age story for her and it just does not click, not for me....at all...ever. She's way to cliche, too something... She struggles with her decisions on the moral playing field of childlike innocence which does not gel with the hellish warzone the story takes place in. I mean, they try to explain this by having her grow up outside of Ala Mhigo, outside of Imperial slavery....but....I just think someone of her temperament would melt like a snowflake in a blast furnace. Or that she would completely change, shed that childlike innocence once she's properly seen what happened to her family, her countrymen. In fact, I think she might become like the villains... I guess I'm just sick of the "maintaining moral integrity" trope. Lyse's story is frikkin tragic, she should be tragic, broken, and interesting.

Didn't like Yotsuyu at all. Trying to seesaw her between cartoonish, mustache-twirling villainy and, "she's technically a different person" innocence does nothing for me. "Tsuyu" copout or not.

I think her story could have been interesting if it was handled differently. As it is, I found both versions of her just too heavy-handed.

MAJOR SPOILER WARNING

Do not read if you haven't cleared Tsukiyomi.

I actually didn't like the Yotsuyu and Goestsu arc personally. I believe their story should have ended at Doma castle and that we should have gone from there as I believe that it would have been the perfect ending to their respective stories.

Yotsuyu crushed by the castle of the nation that she tried to crush, dying in the depths of despair of her failure with absolutely nowhere to go and she receives terrible death as punishment for all the terrible things she did. Meanwhile, Gosetsu sacrifices himself to save Hiei and the WoL thus completing his own character arc of seeking an honorable way and place to die, finally able to be at peace knowing that he at least dies with honor while Yotsuyu dies dishonored and shamed.

In my opinion there was no better way that their stories could have ended, what would have made it even better from there is if they found Gosetsu's katana in the water and brought it to Hiei who could then wield it as he took all of Gosetsu's lessons to heart and became the new mentor/teacher as Gosetsu was to him and create a new era of Doman samurai. That would have been the perfect end to Gosestu/Yotsuyu and I'm not pleased by the way it was handled ultimately.

I've grown a bit weary of antagonists getting redemption arcs or getting to go out on a sympathetic note no matter how depraved they were prior to their defeat. I'm not opposed to it happening every now and then, but it's a hand that gets overplayed across various media. Not all villains deserve redemption, and not all villains who deserve redemption should end up getting it. Life doesn't work that way and neither should storytelling.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

I've grown a bit weary of antagonists getting redemption arcs or getting to go out on a sympathetic note no matter how depraved they were prior to their defeat. I'm not opposed to it happening every now and then, but it's a hand that gets overplayed across various media. Not all villains deserve redemption, and not all villains who deserve redemption should end up getting it. Life doesn't work that way and neither should storytelling.

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It's been a thing in Final Fantasy games for as long as they've existed. It's why a lot of us are very fond of the franchise in the first place. By your logic, characters such as Kain, Golbez, Rufus, Seifer, Gabranth and Beatrix would be cut down where they stood for their shadier actions. If such an approach had been embraced, the games they showed up in would not be nearly so memorable.

I loathe Lyse (whilst being mildly amused by Yda.) Personally, I enjoyed the Yotsuyu arc, though I agree it could have been ended in the Castle for both her and Gosetsu. The fight was great but was more than anything else a visual representation of a story we already knew. She was a very enjoyable villain..

That said, with a certain other Scion's return, perhaps Lyse will be given room to breathe again and not be her second, even more annoying version.

Meh.

Yotsuyu : Women vilain who get amnesia, she's a good girls, she was abused so she became evil. Served with the subtility of a bull inside a china shop.

Fordola : Classic traitor who redemn herself acting like a tsundere "I didn't do it for you Warrior of light-senpai".

Both was predictable as a straight line and prove one more time that FFXIV is a modern Final Fantasy : Who care about well written story when you can just shove up cliché in a jar and call it a story.

The Warrior of Light has slaughtered far more individuals than both Fordola and Yotsuyu combined. It just so happens that people cheer on such carnage so long as the 'right' targets are dehumanised.

Yotsuyu was really disappointing.

If her backstory was slowly revealed while she was still in a position of power it would have eased you into the "tragic villain" thing they were aiming for. Instead they just kind of dumped all of it on you after she became Tsuyu and promptly died like 10 quests later. It was a very hamfisted "oh no I did bad things because I suffered bad things please feel bad for me".
I was also hoping the kind of experiences she went through would make Hien take a deeper look into how his country and society works so there'd never be another Yotsuyu. Instead he just completely forgot everything that happened and life goes on as usual.

Fight was cool though.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's been a thing in Final Fantasy games for as long as they've existed. It's why a lot of us are very fond of the franchise in the first place. By your logic, characters such as Kain, Golbez, Rufus, Seifer, Gabranth and Beatrix would be cut down where they stood for their shadier actions. If such an approach had been embraced, the games they showed up in would not be nearly so memorable.

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Not at all what I said, but sure whatever.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The Warrior of Light has slaughtered far more individuals than both Fordola and Yotsuyu combined. It just so happens that people cheer on such carnage so long as the 'right' targets are dehumanised.

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Excluding Primals (who technically can't be killed anyway) and otherwordly beings, WoL's body count is low. Even the people you'd bank on the WoL getting the kill from a narrative standpoint either took their own lives instead (Ilberd, Zenos) or survived anyway (Gaius, Zenos).

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Excluding Primals (who technically can't be killed anyway) and otherwordly beings, WoL's body count is low. Even the people you'd bank on the WoL getting the kill from a narrative standpoint either took their own lives instead (Ilberd, Zenos) or survived anyway (Gaius, Zenos).

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I dunno, we have killed at least 200 people just doing the duties in the storyline once.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Excluding Primals (who technically can't be killed anyway) and otherwordly beings, WoL's body count is low. Even the people you'd bank on the WoL getting the kill from a narrative standpoint either took their own lives instead (Ilberd, Zenos) or survived anyway (Gaius, Zenos).

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I wasn't solely referring to major characters. The kill count is extremely high if you consider every sentient combatant to ever show up as an opponent in a quest or dungeon.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Excluding Primals (who technically can't be killed anyway) and otherwordly beings, WoL's body count is low. Even the people you'd bank on the WoL getting the kill from a narrative standpoint either took their own lives instead (Ilberd, Zenos) or survived anyway (Gaius, Zenos).

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Good point. Though the WoL's unofficial kill count can vary from player to player. The WoL has been in more battles than can be counted, and some may even blame him/her even though the killing blow didn't come from the WoL directly. Since many have stepped forward to let the WoL know how he/she has helped/saved them in the past, it would be really interesting if a particular NPC has a serious disdain for the WoL and we just have no idea why; only to find out later that it was somebody's husband/wife/son/daughter that died during one of their many battles. Actually, I'm pretty curious if there is a side quest I haven't done that addresses this already??

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I dunno, we have killed at least 200 people just doing the duties in the storyline once.

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Stuff like dungeon mobs can be left open to interpretation, so I make it a point to separate gameplay elements from the story. For all we know the WoL could've just incapacitated most non-major characters instead (same way that if you die in a dungeon you don't actually die, you just got knocked out).

The problem with Yotsuyu's tale is that nobody in-game learns from it. There's no character arcs. The lesson is basically "people are not born evil". Gosetsu did not judge people by birth, Lord Hien did not judge people by birth and Yugiri was already well aware of race discrimination given she entered Eorzea with a mask. While Kugane and the Samurai storyline does expose this as culture that judges people by birth and not action, Kugane and the Samurai story is not linked whatsoever with Yotsuyu's tale. This is bad writing. Since I already knew that people were not born evil, nothing was gained from the moral of this story.

And given how cartoonishly evil some of the villains have been, I think the game writers still need to learn that people are not born evil.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Good point. Though the WoL's unofficial kill count can vary from player to player. The WoL has been in more battles than can be counted, and some may even blame him/her even though the killing blow didn't come from the WoL directly. Since many have stepped forward to let the WoL know how he/she has helped/saved them in the past, it would be really interesting if a particular NPC has a serious disdain for the WoL and we just have no idea why; only to find out later that it was somebody's husband/wife/son/daughter that died during one of their many battles. Actually, I'm pretty curious if there is a side quest I haven't done that addresses this already??

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I'll just direct you towards the Dark Knight questlines, specifically that for the level 60-70 range.
Not quite along those lines, but comes rather close to it... and the general context is that the WoL has left a trail of death and destruction a mile wide throughout the whole of the game.

On a speculative note, whenever we arrive is Garlemald I wouldn't be surprised for the local populace (though both propoganda and simple news reports of soldiers who didn't make it back) doesn't take kindly to us.
Assuming we're going there at some point, obviously.

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Back to the main topic question...

Yotsuyu is a good "tragic villain". Initially set-up as irredeemable, even as early as the first scene she's shown... her being given a second chance and a sympathetic backstory, only to decide to become a monster (quite literally) in the end? It was handled quite well, following the motions of a good tragic villain with the fatal flaw of "wrath". The only real point of contention is her (and Gosetsu) surviving the collapse of Doma Castle, but besides that it works great throughout. You still sympathize with her, even if you accept that you have be to the one to put her down (or arguably, out of her misery) in the end.

Fordola... hmm, a little tougher to elaborate on because the story isn't quite finished yet. Another "tragic villain", but this one seems to be following a more redemptive arc; but since we're still missing the definitive conclusion here, it's tough to evaluate. It's also notable that Fordola is NOT portrayed as needlessly cruel like Yotsuyu was, though she was certainly willing to give and follow questionable orders. Nevertheless, she isn't being shown to be "easily forgiven"... it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in the end.

It's worth noting that in Fordola's case:

- She's only nineteen years old, as revealed in the second edition of the lore book.
- At a younger age, she witnessed her father get stoned to death right in front of her eyes by her own people. Such a sight would traumatise anybody.
- Her goals, whilst misguided, likely would have worked under Gaius.
- Ala Mhigo had been conquered over two decades prior. Fordola had not even been born when it happened.
- A side quest confirms that an undercover agent working for Eorzea deliberately riled up Fordola and convinced her to fire on her own troops in a panic.
- The above is never mentioned in the MSQ's and only shows up in a side quest, yet it is very much a case of feigned outrage on Eorzea's part and if they are to punish Fordola for such an act then they need to be consistent and punish the other party involved...which is unlikely to happen.

Yotsuyu my only beef was how she was executed by her brother and your character just stared at the entire scene even knowing that Gosetsu would be sad if she died. I know she wasn't no saint but at least the story managed to build the idea: Hey no wonder she wanted to torch the entire province.
As for Fordola cool stuff, hope she follow us in Shadowbringers

Going through the story, I hated both of them. They felt like they were written in to be hated, then you learn more of their backstory and you understand them a little better, the hate turned to pity.

Especially Yotsuyu, that poor girl. I don't want to spoil here but there was a scene elsewhere in Doma where people are remembering the fallen and the thought crosses my mind "No one will be thinking of the poor little girl Yotsuyu used to be." and it made me feel feels. =/

I'm not a fan of how they handle and write most of their villains. It's true, Yotsuyu and Fordola have a few clichés that I can't help but feel like were shoved in our faces to try and morally conflict us to make them seem "deeper." But still, I do think these two characters are more well-written than a lot of their other "enemies of the week." Remember their portrayal of the Warriors of Darkness? "Oh look, it's the Warrior of Light." *sinister face* "Oh there was a twin, no wonder my poison arrow seemed like it had no effect" *smug sneering* "Oooh, you beat us! Pity our situation." *sadfaces* - Yeah, that was how "deep" those villains who had been built-up for some time came across.

Personally, I think Fordola's situation seems more worth seeing-through. There are similarities between Yotsuyu and Fordola (probably intended), but Yotsuyu was pretty much sociopathic and the only thing really keeping her from being a total hatesink was her convenient amnesia, which as somebody already pointed out, her and Gosetsu's role in the story was more impactful if they had ended in Doma Castle's collapse. But unfortunately, as the writers prove time and time again, they have an incredibly tough time leaving any significant story characters truly dead, and we frequently find out mere patches later that "but wait- not really!" The writers seem to love using the Not Quite Dead trope to the point that it's not even a plot twist anymore and any time somebody "dies" (and hasn't already come back before) I'll expect them to make an appearance back into the story eventually and will be pleasantly surprised if they actually don't.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

I'm not a fan of how they handle and write most of their villains. It's true, Yotsuyu and Fordola have a few clichés that I can't help but feel like were shoved in our faces to try and morally conflict us to make them seem "deeper." But still, I do think these two characters are more well-written than a lot of their other "enemies of the week." Remember their portrayal of the Warriors of Darkness? "Oh look, it's the Warrior of Light." *sinister face* "Oh there was a twin, no wonder my poison arrow seemed like it had no effect" *smug sneering* "Oooh, you beat us! Pity our situation." *sadfaces* - Yeah, that was how "deep" those villains who had been built-up for some time came across.

Personally, I think Fordola's situation seems more worth seeing-through. There are similarities between Yotsuyu and Fordola (probably intended), but Yotsuyu was pretty much sociopathic and the only thing really keeping her from being a total hatesink was her convenient amnesia, which as somebody already pointed out, her and Gosetsu's role in the story was more impactful if they had ended in Doma Castle's collapse. But unfortunately, as the writers prove time and time again, they have an incredibly tough time leaving any significant story characters truly dead, and we frequently find out mere patches later that "but wait- not really!" The writers seem to love using the Not Quite Dead trope to the point that it's not even a plot twist anymore and any time somebody "dies" (and hasn't already come back before) I'll expect them to make an appearance back into the story eventually and will be pleasantly surprised if they actually don't.

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Oh yeah, Yotsuyu is similar in that we see the Warriors of Darkness smugly act evil as they attempt to commit mass genocide, then at the end the story wants us to feel sorry for them and the Warriors of Darkness start making sad faces. It's was so hamfisted. I get the very strong impression these character aren't fully written out so the attempt to add dimensions to these villains in a later patches come off as retcons. What did the Warriors of Darkness stand to gain by acting smug and condescending? The fact that they never seem conflicted or regretful in their attempt at mass genocide made them completely unsympathetic in my eyes.

Yotsuyu never choose redemption, she was inflicted with brain damage caused by her own malicious actions. So what's the surprise when Yotsuyu choose to be herself? What was at stake? Yotsuyu was never sympathetic in my eyes. She attempted to purge a fishing village, one whom hadn't done anything to her. She never regretted these actions, especially when she had amnesia. Yotsuyu never goes through a character arc, she goes from being herself, to being brain damaged, then back to being herself. There's a reason amnesia is considered hack writing.

The Warriors of Darkness had the full weight of an entire world on their shoulders. I can't really condemn them for being smug and desperate - especially when the protagonists frequently cheer, nod enthusiastically and bump fists when preparing to slaughter countless enemy combatants. Many of whom are conscripts/individuals forced into dire situations due to just how horrible and messed up a setting Hydaelyn actually is.

Gonna miss Yotsuyu.

Fordola... she won't be gone soon enough. And yet I can't help but feel that she's going to be shoved down our throats in ShB. -.-'

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Originally Posted by Raelsar

I'll just direct you towards the Dark Knight questlines, specifically that for the level 60-70 range.
Not quite along those lines, but comes rather close to it... and the general context is that the WoL has left a trail of death and destruction a mile wide throughout the whole of the game.

On a speculative note, whenever we arrive is Garlemald I wouldn't be surprised for the local populace (though both propoganda and simple news reports of soldiers who didn't make it back) doesn't take kindly to us.
Assuming we're going there at some point, obviously.

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Oh yes! I am very familiar with this questline. It's part of what lead to my inquiry because there is just no way the WoL hasn't pissed off at least a few peeps. Even if we exclude Garlemald, the Scions are going to have some haters. Those who are pacifists, and those with opposing political views. I can't remember her name, but there was the one girl in Ishgard who slipped us the sleeping potion before taking an arrow to the chest. While not quite the same because she may not have lost a loved one as a result of the WoL, she was not on board for any peace treaties with the dragons and went to great lengths to stop it.

I think you're right though, and if we ever go to Garlemald, we very likely will not be well-received from its citizens. Or quite a few of them anyway.

I liked Yotsuyu and hate Fordola. They are both absolute monsters who are utterly irredeemable. The only difference is in how they're perceived by themselves and others.

Yotsuyu knows that she's a monster, she just doesn't give a crap. The world hurt her, so she's going to hurt back. That's obviously a terrible excuse, but at least she's honest with herself. Perhaps more importantly, none of the other story characters ever forgave her for her myriad of crimes. The only reason they didn't just instantly execute her is because while she was in their custody, she was arguably a completely different person.

Fordola is just as big of a monster, but she tries to hide her monstrous deeds behind a mask of honor. She's somehow convinced herself that siding with the empire and killing her own people is not only morally justified, it's actually good for the Ala Mhiggans! But unlike Yotsuyu, Fordola gets to live on, and in relative freedom at that. The story tries to paint her unjustifiable crimes as just a mistake of youth. "Oh you killed, beat and imprisoned your countrymen for years? And for what turned out was literally no reason at all? That's okay, we all make mistakes!"

Yotsuyu is a villain, and I can respect her as a villain. Fordola is just as bad, but she's supposed to be this weird anti-hero, and I can't respect her at all.

Again, Fordola - as a little girl - saw her own people stone her father to death right before her very eyes. She had every reason not to be particularly fond of them.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

I liked Yotsuyu and hate Fordola. They are both absolute monsters who are utterly irredeemable. The only difference is in how they're perceived by themselves and others.

Yotsuyu knows that she's a monster, she just doesn't give a crap. The world hurt her, so she's going to hurt back. That's obviously a terrible excuse, but at least she's honest with herself. Perhaps more importantly, none of the other story characters ever forgave her for her myriad of crimes. The only reason they didn't just instantly execute her is because while she was in their custody, she was arguably a completely different person.

Fordola is just as big of a monster, but she tries to hide her monstrous deeds behind a mask of honor. She's somehow convinced herself that siding with the empire and killing her own people is not only morally justified, it's actually good for the Ala Mhiggans! But unlike Yotsuyu, Fordola gets to live on, and in relative freedom at that. The story tries to paint her unjustifiable crimes as just a mistake of youth. "Oh you killed, beat and imprisoned your countrymen for years? And for what turned out was literally no reason at all? That's okay, we all make mistakes!"

Yotsuyu is a villain, and I can respect her as a villain. Fordola is just as bad, but she's supposed to be this weird anti-hero, and I can't respect her at all.

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Who knows, we have one more major patch in Stormblood, we may get to see what becomes of Fordola. I bet she'll be redeemed somehow; probably through sacrificing herself to save Princess Peach.... er Lyse. (seriously Lyse has only been useful in terrifying some Namazu)

Tsuyu deserved better

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Originally Posted by Beckett

She's somehow convinced herself that siding with the empire and killing her own people is not only morally justified, it's actually good for the Ala Mhiggans!

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Her own people killing her family had something to do with that. When Batman saw his parents murdered by a criminal of Gotham, he wasn't exactly endeared to the plight of criminals. No, he in fact spent the rest of his days ambushing them and punching them.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Her own people killing her family had something to do with that. When Batman saw his parents murdered by a criminal of Gotham, he wasn't exactly endeared to the plight of criminals. No, he in fact spent the rest of his days ambushing them and punching them.

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That's far more inline with Yotsuyu's way of thinking. Some Ala Mhigans did her harm, therefor all Ala Mhigans must suffer.

But that's not actually what Fordola's motivations are. She makes her countrymen suffer under the guise of helping them. Killing, imprisoning and allowing the rape of her own people while convincing herself it's for their own good is, even in the most positive light, extremely foolish. And it's okay to have a story where characters do foolish things, but it's not okay when those characters don't get proper punishments for their actions.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

That's far more inline with Yotsuyu's way of thinking. Some Ala Mhigans did her harm, therefor all Ala Mhigans must suffer.

But that's not actually what Fordola's motivations are. She makes her countrymen suffer under the guise of helping them. Killing, imprisoning and allowing the rape of her own people while convincing herself it's for their own good is, even in the most positive light, extremely foolish. And it's okay to have a story where characters do foolish things, but it's not okay when those characters don't get proper punishments for their actions.

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Well she is being tormented by frequent Echo flashbacks showing her how much of a horrible person she was (or other things, depending on who she meets) and she knows for a fact that her actions were not what won her peoples freedom.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Well she is being tormented by frequent Echo flashbacks showing her how much of a horrible person she was (or other things, depending on who she meets) and she knows for a fact that her actions were not what won her peoples freedom.

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She should, at the very least, be imprisoned for the rest of her life. Instead, she gets to go on adventures with Arenvald while occasionally having reminders of her past misdeads.

Fordola is a monster, and the game keeps asking us to, if not forgive her, at least condone her.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The Warrior of Light has slaughtered far more individuals than both Fordola and Yotsuyu combined. It just so happens that people cheer on such carnage so long as the 'right' targets are dehumanised.

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well i dont know

we cant really say we slain many people for the light, that always the paradox of game, uncharted show this main character cool but in gameplay just a fuking serial killer

i think ff14 already to give some reason to beastmen to exist and do what they do, it is already a good thing,
for the rest, well this is was against the empire, so yes people die in battle and our hero win, but cant say it is a free slain from unharmed people.

but to be honnest i dont like go kill amaljia or other beast tribe for hunt quest, even kill some bear lol, i feel like i m genocidar guy just for xp. but that a game after all.

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Originally Posted by Corue

Yotsuyu was really disappointing.

If her backstory was slowly revealed while she was still in a position of power it would have eased you into the "tragic villain" thing they were aiming for. Instead they just kind of dumped all of it on you after she became Tsuyu and promptly died like 10 quests later. It was a very hamfisted "oh no I did bad things because I suffered bad things please feel bad for me".
I was also hoping the kind of experiences she went through would make Hien take a deeper look into how his country and society works so there'd never be another Yotsuyu. Instead he just completely forgot everything that happened and life goes on as usual.

Fight was cool though.

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I agree,

but i dont know it should be interpreted, for me that a choice to show that well society doesnt care so much of individual wealthy (mostly true in asia cause communy is more important than the person) of course Hien could took more action or thinking about this, but for me he did, by mentionning two time ; "your claim wont be forget" and " hard past cant justify crime of today" now on side of the main issues they meet, well they prolly put this on last, i think it is just because the game doesnt pretend to solve all social problem which can appear in a society, and for me, even if the "story" sounds classic, it deserve to speak about this topic on violence do on children, and slavery.