My problem with Alphascape

One thing to keep in mind tho,this is just purely from my personal pugging perspective since I wasn't part of a static during the pug process

I could probably be wrong on a couple of things so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of it

While so far things didn't take as long as it did for me on delta and sigmascape,Alphascape just didn't feel as fun to reclear as the previous two tiers for me(doesn't help that for three weeks I got nothing on my rolls for weekly chests since I began Alphascape but thats beside the point)


For one,I feel like the fights from o10s and beyond were not designed with Melee positionals in mind,sure True North can mitigate this but it has a 90 seconds cooldown(I think it was 120 seconds before iirc)....

Midgardsormr is just too big and covers half of the arena so getting from his flank to his rear is a bit annoying as the distance you travel during this can be detrimental when handling mechanics from spin/flip patterns to bulwark/hottail passes to akh morn stacks next to exa flares and during all of this,especially for MNK,lots of extra potency damage is lost while handling mechs without a lot of coordination and practice....which is something you're not guaranteed to get without a consistent static)

Its one of many reasons why I switched to being a full-time ranged/caster DPS

And speaking of mechanics,the fights feel kind of jank

To be fair Chaos is easier than even most ex primals(but the jank is still there especially if pfs insist on DPS in instead of DPS out),but Midgardsormr's new added mechanics of Bulwark and Hottail feels really janky without a consistent strat like the currently popular Spyro strat,and that whole new addition last for a grand total of a minute before things went back to the status quo from the earlier part of the fight with exaflares added in,hottail's hitbox is deceptively large so even if you think you're as far as u can from it it still kills the party sometimes,and the nidhogg balls are there purely to be "hey remember this mech from nidhogg?do it again.

It wasn't hard to get a clear as it took me around 5 to 6 pfs to get my clear but the process of doing the fight and reclearing it on a weekly basis for loot isn't fun tbh compared when I went back to delta and sigmascape raid tiers which,while stuff like Guardian and Kefka were tought to pug I still enjoyed refarming them heck I recleared o8s 7 times by now.

And then comes Omega o11s.....................sigh.This is honestly the worst fight of the omega raid by far for me,this takes all the issues I mentioned earlier plus the complaints I had with previous raids and amplify them by a 100,from the RNG in the colored fists in the beginning to the chains in Level Checker to the absolute visual mess that is Pantocrater in both variations which is pretty much the equivalent of being died to a circus dartwheel and have to dodge 50 knifes in a row followed by a bomb immediately after while being tasked to dodge and attack at the same time otherwise u hit the enrage loop cast

Granted I'm not the best raider by any means and I'm sure a lot of you found it pretty easy,but this ,for me, doesn't feel like a fun type of challenge where,while still hard,is still enjoyable with a lot of replayability. Omega o11s,and Alphascape Savage in general,doesn't feel like that for me.Especially for weekly loot clears

Deltascape and sigmascape might've took me longer to do and the pugging process wasn't exactly pleasant,the end result at the very least,even if the loot is outdated,was worth it for me,and I don't think Alphascape can offer the same

I honestly might consider chickening out and just wait till the prog lock is lifted to jump ahead to o12s later before 5.0's release cuz it's just not worth it for me,and the 400 ilvl gear is not even than enticing when u know can augment scaevan gear with Ivalice coins.

And with that,rant is over.

How was your alphascape experience tho?I'd love to hear how things went with you guys especially those who cleared it.

It's true that there are some times that you can't hit positionals. However, smart use of positioning resolves a lot of this. And using optimized strategies solved even more. Unfortunately, pugs are NOT optimized in the slightest. For example, you can actually land positionals while doing Pantokrator on a melee class. However, it requires almost completely redesigning the strategy.

On lasers, you can use true SW, W, N and NE positions for both sets of lasers, and swap out with a second group of players, instead of having all 8 players at different directions. If you MNK on the NE position, you can access the flank/rear line and land all positionals while simultaneously baiting your laser. The N position is less ideal, but still allows for rear positionals.

The missile section is more complicated, and there are a vast number of patterns that can be used to control where each player runs at any given time to bait their AoEs while more or less staying on position for positionals. I couldn't tell you exactly what system to use though. I can just tell you that as a healer, I start at the true E edge and slide-cast towards the center, allowing me a 50% chance at finishing my Stone IV cast, since only 4 AoEs spawn under random players. Being separated from the group gives me a 50% chance of not being targeted. If I'm not targeted, I get to finish my cast.

I honestly feel like having to account for positionals and range should be justification for all melee classes in general having higher DPS then casters.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I honestly feel like having to account for positionals and range should be justification for all melee classes in general having higher DPS then casters.

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Try playing Black Mage and you will understand why they're completely justified in having highest personal DPS out of all the jobs.
Range doesn't really mean anything when the fights were designed in such way that allows melee jobs to hug the boss 95% of the time.

As for the topic, I don't really have any particular problem when it comes positionals in Alphascape bosses. Sure Midgard can be a little bit annoying due to his size, but missing few positionals now and then doesn't really kill your DPS. I have True North up for every mechanics that need it, except for one Pankto. Final Omega is even easier on positionals except during both Hello World depending on your strat.

As melee, I expect you'd probably want to do something similar, but start inside the boss on the rear/flank line, then move out while dodging AoEs. If you got 3 consecutive AoEs, maybe after the third, use a dash skill to get back to the boss, then dodge inwards.

Lining that up with the flamethrowers on Panto 2 is where it would get complicated as hell though.

I dunno....I think O11S is my favorite fight of the tier. I think the problem that you have having is that you running PUGs, who sometimes do not go by a unified strategy (the dps in vs out is a prime example - some prefer dps in). Maybe with a static, you'd have less issues with that? I don't know your situation as far as not having a static goes, but even though I mostly don't like fighting O10S, I think my issues are mostly alleviated by the fact that I have a consistent go-to strategy with my static and every week, it's more about pushing out damage and optimizing more than the week before.

You know you can stand inside the bosses hitbox to do positionals, doesn't help for a lot of mechanics but still you're not having to trek the arena just for a positional

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I dunno....I think O11S is my favorite fight of the tier. I think the problem that you have having is that you running PUGs, who sometimes do not go by a unified strategy (the dps in vs out is a prime example - some prefer dps in). Maybe with a static, you'd have less issues with that? I don't know your situation as far as not having a static goes, but even though I mostly don't like fighting O10S, I think my issues are mostly alleviated by the fact that I have a consistent go-to strategy with my static and every week, it's more about pushing out damage and optimizing more than the week before.

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Well recently a friend introduced me to a static but the problem is,as you'd expect,is with scheduling and the difference between timezones so sometimes not everyone from the static can gather

And while it'll sure elliviate some of the issues I have.....I still don't think it'll be that much fun to go back to either.It's probably just a "me" issue but I'm just not feeling alphascape tbh

Have you tried hitting boss inside him? Does positionals work that way?

The lines that separate flank from rear extend all the way to the boss's center. Regardless of a boss's size, you should not have trouble switching between flank and rear because you should be somewhere along that line, making just small adjustments back and forth over it.
https://i.imgur.com/I5flH74.png

You can also stand along the line but inside the target circle.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

The lines that separate flank from rear extend all the way to the boss's center. Regardless of a boss's size, you should not have trouble switching between flank and rear because you should be somewhere along that line, making just small adjustments back and forth over it.
https://i.imgur.com/I5flH74.png

You can also stand along the line but inside the target circle.

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Oh so it's not as specific as I thought it is?Cuz I thought the room for flanks and rear are smaller than what was on the graph.

Thanks tho,that'll help me a lot next time I try melee during raids

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

Oh so it's not as specific as I thought it is?Cuz I thought the room for flanks and rear are smaller than what was on the graph.

Thanks tho,that'll help me a lot next time I try melee during raids

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yeah, the area is actually huge. I raid with DRG and SAM and spend most of my time in O10S inside the hitbox because its way easier. I do the same thing in O11S during starboard/larboard and miss very few positionals during that specific mechanic (unless im literally forced to). I save true north for times we're sitting under the boss or sitting in the corner hitting his face, but YMMV.

Also since you pug, optimizing dps is a poopshoot in most cases. You can only do your best but it wont likely be optimal until you get an entire team trying to optimize dps uptime. (my static only focuses on dps uptime strats which most pugs dont do, so when i tried to pug i actually had no idea what they were doing lol).

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

Well recently a friend introduced me to a static but the problem is,as you'd expect,is with scheduling and the difference between timezones so sometimes not everyone from the static can gather

And while it'll sure elliviate some of the issues I have.....I still don't think it'll be that much fun to go back to either.It's probably just a "me" issue but I'm just not feeling alphascape tbh

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I wish I could raid this tier but I can't I had to schedule 1 person from NZ, 1 person from Japan, 3 people from the west coast, 2 from central America and myself East Coast Canadian, it was a nightmare but we had 2 days to raid and it was enough, it's daunting but can be done. And you're not the only one I loved Creator and Midas those were probably my favorite raid tiers I wish I had gotten into Ultimates but my statics been dead since Sigmascape, as for Alphascape I love the gear but I dunno how i'd feel about em till I actually tried them.

Well 11s is fun too me lol the only actual challenge, but I switched from MNK quick because melee and alphascape hate one another...

You have to learn where the 'break point' is between flank and rear is as a melee and position there when possible. The bosses direction is fairly static in most fights, so this is an issue of retraining yourself. Im not syaing the fights are incredibly melee friendly, but this isnt a game breaking problem either. Just a bit of creativity on your part solves the issue. Which I think is the point from the Devs. Theyre pushing certain aspects harder cause they want you the player to play better.

As for RNG in fights, people kind of watned that...kinda.

Pretty much peoples complaints about Savage was the scripted nature of it. GMs said "Ok, then how bout this." Things are still scripted but certain aspects are RNG based. Its reliant on you the player to resolve that by being aware of how the mechanic functions instead of learning "Run to x, stand there for a few seconds, and run to Y" regardless of knowing how the mechanic functions. 11s, honestly, is easier than 10 in that regards.

The issue you might be running into is simply that youre pugging it. These fights are much more manageable in statics where communication is better (along with level of play typically). While I too am not a godly raider, I am clearing it. Most of my deaths is me messing up a mechanic I know due to carelessness, and not because of bad strats, terrible RNG, or or janky mechanics. But thats been my experience. I like it. Could be better? Sure. But this isnt bad for what Im getting.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

You have to learn where the 'break point' is between flank and rear is as a melee and position there when possible. The bosses direction is fairly static in most fights, so this is an issue of retraining yourself. Im not syaing the fights are incredibly melee friendly, but this isnt a game breaking problem either. Just a bit of creativity on your part solves the issue. Which I think is the point from the Devs. Theyre pushing certain aspects harder cause they want you the player to play better.

As for RNG in fights, people kind of watned that...kinda.

Pretty much peoples complaints about Savage was the scripted nature of it. GMs said "Ok, then how bout this." Things are still scripted but certain aspects are RNG based. Its reliant on you the player to resolve that by being aware of how the mechanic functions instead of learning "Run to x, stand there for a few seconds, and run to Y" regardless of knowing how the mechanic functions. 11s, honestly, is easier than 10 in that regards.

The issue you might be running into is simply that youre pugging it. These fights are much more manageable in statics where communication is better (along with level of play typically). While I too am not a godly raider, I am clearing it. Most of my deaths is me messing up a mechanic I know due to carelessness, and not because of bad strats, terrible RNG, or or janky mechanics. But thats been my experience. I like it. Could be better? Sure. But this isnt bad for what Im getting.

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I didn't mean it was game breaking,just cumbersome for me personally and it's where I decided to switch to ranged for alphascape

I can handle a bit of rng sprinkled here and there heck o4s had many RNG elements from Exdeath's blackholes to what type of debuff set u get on neo exdeath

I didn't feel like the rng in o11s was as decent as that but it's something I might get used to eventually despite me not liking it

I'll eventually clear it,it's just that alphascape for me isn't a tier I'd personally go back to even for weekly loot. Tho with the new info I got from here I might try DRG again on o11s and see what I can do with it.

Thanks for the info everyone ^_^