Rescue Delays

So i noticed using rescue that the cast is instantaneous but when I pull someone it take, what feels like, a full second before the pull is actually engaged.

I noticed this when in extreme whorleater, I yanked the other healer as he was going over board, he continued his slide, fell into the water, then got yanked but was already dead and off the map so nothing happened and it went on cool down.

I feel that the response timer on an ability like rescue needs to be truly next to perfect on a last moment save ability. Could we please put this on the list of things to be patched?

I'm personally for making Rescue more like BLM's Aetherial Manipulation that let's you slide to an ally's side. Problem seems to be though is Rescue is more of an interruption action (like Holmgang) rather than a free movement one, you can use anti-knockback (Arm's Length, Surecast etc) to even negate Rescue.

Having the response of the action be well more responsive would be nice, who knows if it could ever be adjusted, probably not a priority. However if I could be Rescued and use an (insta)action while still in transit because it doesn't cause interruption that would be amazing, but I don't see that happening.

Yep, it's pretty much Benediction all over again. Probably a bit worse because... the movement probably has to register on your target's client, then go back to the server, and then finally you get to see it. So - outside of planned rescues - you have to realize someone's about to mess up fairly well in advance to really get any use out of it...

I have no issue with it, or with Benediction. Learning the timing of skills and how to use them is part of the class. If you see someone about to be hit, you should Rescue them ahead of time, not at the last second. Like if you see someone going the wrong way for a mechanic, etc.

As for Benediction, the delay makes it harder to use as an emergency heal, but again, if you see the tank about to eat something that will put them in the danger zone, you should already be ready to Benediction a split second early so the heal is instant.

I get your point Nocturnai, however, it does say instant cast. I will also argue that even cast ahead of time, ie. at the start of the slide in whorleater, it doesnt trigger till they are already in the water. I did some testing with it and you can get 6-8 steps in easy before it ever triggers. thats after the circle appears under you and them, which does happen nearly instantly. this makes me think theres a serious animation delay where their probably shouldnt be

It's just another symptom of the way this game lazily and imprecisely handles interactions between players.

There's always room for improvement when it comes to things like this. But it'd involve reworking the internal tick rate of the game which would have a significant impact on PvE, whilst also likely requiring significantly more CPU horse power for the zone and instance servers across the board.

PvP would be the biggest winner here, rescue being more responsive would be a comparative side bonus. But if SE considered it to be a worthwhile expense, I suspect they would have done it long ago.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

There's always room for improvement when it comes to things like this. But it'd involve reworking the internal tick rate of the game which would have a significant impact on PvE, whilst also likely requiring significantly more CPU horse power for the zone and instance servers across the board.

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If you were around for the game's (re)launch (and well, you in particular definitely were)... you'll probably remember how bad things used to be.

https://i.imgur.com/3Jbpavc.gif

They've increased the tick rate in the overworld. They've had to increase it in raid instances a few times. These days it's mostly pretty OK, but there's a few cases where it's really noticeable. Benediction. Rescue. The occasional poorly designed instance, like Suzaku. And, yeah, it's usually a bit more noticeable in PVP too.

Oh I remember that, I had so many issues in Titan of getting hit by landslide after I moved out of the telegraph before it finished. I ended up having to ignore them and just start strafing immediately if I saw him turn in my general direction.

More on topic, I’ve gotten some use out of rescue but overall been somewhat disappointed with it. I remember doing a leveling roulette and trying to pull the stunned party member out of Oliphant’s AoE and it just flat out did nothing.

Oh yeah i rememberTitan hard on the European server at the time... You had to know the fight by heart to pre-dodge or you were dead.
A lot of people were stuck at that quest for quite some time... fun times...

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

I have no issue with it, or with Benediction. Learning the timing of skills and how to use them is part of the class. If you see someone about to be hit, you should Rescue them ahead of time, not at the last second. Like if you see someone going the wrong way for a mechanic, etc.

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Both Benediction and Rescue have annoying delays despite being instant. We can work around Bene though because like you say, it really shouldn't be saved for emergencies and rather a free heal. Rescue is a bit different, but gives the same frustration that WHMs share when they allow the tank to get too low before using Bene. With Rescue however, we don't always have the same amount of time to respond to an enemy cast bar as we do a tank's depleting HP gauge; and actually, it's those situations that we do is when Rescue has a much higher success rate.

Rescue when used outside of being scripted for an encounter requires anticipation from the healer to be successful. Basically, the more familiar you are with the encounter and the mechanics along with being able to identify who's about the fail a mechanic will greatly facilitate the use of it. It also requires that the healer him/herself isn't in any danger, and an untimely AoE under your feet my thwart the Rescue attempt.

If they can eliminate or reduce the delay, it will be much easier to rescue a player quickly rather than pre-emptively.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

it really shouldn't be saved for emergencies and rather a free heal.

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These days it rarely is, at least for me. It's virtually always reserved - to be paired with a tank immunity.

All that being said.... when I do get to save it for an emergency I actually kind of like it? There's been enough times where a DPS eats something that brings them to critical hp, but they won't be dead until a raidwide hit or something goes out in the next second or two. It's enough time for benediction to save them, if I have it to spare. The majority of the time benediction is reserved or on CD and so they die. But when I can spare it, well... it is nice to have a tool for those situations.

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Originally Posted by Seiryusama

I get your point Nocturnai, however, it does say instant cast. I will also argue that even cast ahead of time, ie. at the start of the slide in whorleater, it doesnt trigger till they are already in the water. I did some testing with it and you can get 6-8 steps in easy before it ever triggers. thats after the circle appears under you and them, which does happen nearly instantly. this makes me think theres a serious animation delay where their probably shouldnt be

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That's because Rescue doesn't nullify knockback. It will pull them after the knockback has finished. Since the knockback slides them into the water, they're dead when they get pulled.

If you want to save someone from sliding off, you have to pull them before the knockback registers. I'm not 100% on whether knockback cancels a rescue pull. If it does and they're only halfway to safety, it might still kill them. If not, it would either give you some wonky motion effects as the player teleports to you faster than they should, then gets pushed, or the knockback would just appear to knock them back less distance than everyone else.

To use rescue properly you have to anticipate a bit. I use it all the time and save people a lot. But because of latency on all player ends it also happens a fair amount of the time that I rescued someone who did not need it because they just showed up as further away on my screen than they actually were. It’s the flip side.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

That's because Rescue doesn't nullify knockback. It will pull them after the knockback has finished. Since the knockback slides them into the water, they're dead when they get pulled.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

If you want to save someone from sliding off, you have to pull them before the knockback registers. I'm not 100% on whether knockback cancels a rescue pull. If it does and they're only halfway to safety, it might still kill them. If not, it would either give you some wonky motion effects as the player teleports to you faster than they should, then gets pushed, or the knockback would just appear to knock them back less distance than everyone else.

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Knockbacks, teleports, gap closers, disengagers, and pulls all override each other. It's just a matter of timing. You can Rescue someone as they're about to get knocked back as long as the knockback hits them before Rescue does. The timing is just unnecessarily complicated by the inconsistent activation time of Rescue and other "instant" movement abilities.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Knockbacks, teleports, gap closers, disengagers, and pulls all override each other. It's just a matter of timing. You can Rescue someone as they're about to get knocked back as long as the knockback hits them before Rescue does. The timing is just unnecessarily complicated by the inconsistent activation time of Rescue and other "instant" movement abilities.

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Are you sure about this? I had the same thought for awhile, and so back when I was obsessed with ShivaEX, I would try to Rescue people who got hit by Avalanche, to test it. Every single time, it didn't work (and my timing is pretty good, having so much experience pre-healing to the microsecond, even with Benediction). If the Rescue effect triggered just after Avalanche hit the target, they would get knocked all the way back, and only then would they be pulled to me. They'd get frozen if they hit the wall, too.

It's possible that the off way that Rescue pulls start slow and speed up based on distance affects this somehow, but in my experience, Rescue does not cancel knockbacks.

Is it possible that some push effects also have a bind component to immoblize us. Rescue can't be used on bound players and most forced movement keeps you from being able to walk around. Like the tilt on Leviathan or Sophia for instance. It doesn't say you are bound or stunned but you definitely lose control of your character. I wonder if there is a hidden mechanic to some forced movement that keeps Rescue from being used until the mechanic is over entirely.