4.5 WHM

As much as I hate to be the sort to look a gift horse in the mouth. It feels like SE looked at feedback from early Stormblood, instead of looking at what might close the gap between WHM and AST/SCH.

This also has me worried that SE will yet again double down on "pure healer" for 5.0, and we'll go through the Heavensward/Stormblood cycle once more.

Anyone have a different take on the changes?

While the enmity reductions are welcome I’m sure, and Plenary can now allow for some semblance of planning around its usage with the longer-lasting Confession stacks, it really does seem that they’re still pushing WHM to be the “pure healer” in this game. And that’s just not going to work when its competitors are most definitely not “pure healers” in any way.

This also makes me wonder how WHM will do if DNC is introduced in 5.0 (and it actually very well designed). Call me pessimistic, but if DNC is good and WHM is still being shoved into a “pure healer” role, I don’t think it will fair well at all.

It's not to say that enmity changes along with Assize and Plenary indulgence aren't welcome, but it really does feel like they were buffed with only themselves in mind. Not buffed in a way that will help them catch up to AST and SCH. It's an absolute shame, I wasn't expecting much, but they could have at least buffed potencies across the board similar to MCH.

Overall it just feels like they have no intentions on making WHM any better than where it is. I really fear for 5.0 if dancer really is the new healer.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I wasn't expecting much, but they could have at least buffed potencies across the board similar to MCH.

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Honestly what I was hoping for, especially after reading the monk changes beforehand. Then getting to the WHM changes, it was like the bottom dropped out of my stomach.

Another 6 months of being hated and resented and called healing cancer. But the assize change will make the DPS contrast less stark, at least...

I'd really dig WHM being the pure healer if it brought the best dps (single target and AoE) of all the healers.

Saying that, I was expecting a potency increase (or cast time decrease) to Stone and the Aeros, along with a MP cost reduction.

Plenary Indulgence buff is nice, because like someone said here, it will be allowed to plan the stacks for the next AoE wave, but honestly I think that is still more healing than necessary. The change I think would be the best it was if instead of confession stacks, PI used lilies instead.

Overall, the patch buffs were nice, but they tackled the aspect that WHM is already excelling at, not the aspect that it is faulty.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

[...] along with a MP cost reduction.

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The new Assise cooldown makes up for that.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

The new Assise cooldown makes up for that.

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It makes up for the MP that you're spending since you can use it more frequently, but as stated it's like WHM got shafted again. Just stop focusing on the healing aspect of WHM SE and just give us a proper damage buff.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I'd really dig WHM being the pure healer if it brought the best dps (single target and AoE) of all the healers.

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Agreed. WHM really should be/bring the best DPS - by a big margin and effortlessly - if they refuse to give it any kind of utility.

An in combat mass-res would be good too.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

An in combat mass-res would be good too.

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I thought that was Res Mage's job...

Joking aside, nah.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Agreed. WHM really should be bring the best DPS - by a big margin and effortlessly - if they refuse to give it any kind of utility.

An in combat mass-res would be good too.

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Or an AoE Esuna or some dispell that lets WHM remove all debuffs with a single cast. Or even ReRaise.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

Or an AoE Esuna or some dispell that lets WHM remove all debuffs with a single cast. Or even ReRaise.

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Yes, those too. All of it :)

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

Or an AoE Esuna or some dispell that lets WHM remove all debuffs with a single cast.

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There would have to be more situations which warrant an aoe Esuna, most of the time it's usually single dots/debuffs on one or two allies rather than multiple. Otherwise there is no reason why parties just wouldn't take SCH instead who has access to aoe Esuna through Selene (plus this job as a whole is seeked more often anyway).

Some kind of Raise that makes it different from all the others could be a good thing though, something unique to make it stand out... but saying that, it could be useless outside of Prog parties where death rarely occurs.

Not the changes I was expecting. Welcome ones, but ones that miss the mark of alleviating WHM GCD economy and clipping. As far as bandaid, quick potency/CD/cast time things, at least coulda lowered the cast time on Aero 3 to give another weaving spot maybe~ I feel like a lower CD on PoM would be beneficial at this point, too. It's not like it's used for healing in the vast majority of cases. Of course raw potencies was always an option too - if we're gonna clip and hardcast a bunch of heals, make them stronger. I don't see the problem like the developers seem to.

I really wish they would have done ANYTHING to the 68 trait. Its existence for this long is a stain on the development team that in my mind will never be cleaned up - that they ignored it so long while making changes to other traits that were already in much better places is something I can never forget. Take off the crit requirement. Change it to benediction. Let Cure 3, medica, and medica 2 casts affect it. Anything. It'd still be bad but at least it'd do something.

When it comes to Assize...I'm worried. Assize is a fun, powerful skill. People like it, they like hitting it. I don't blame them. But I don't like having so much tied to it, especially damage. Despite its burst healing and despite its ability to be be used on the move it's increasingly becoming a damage button that happens to have a heal attached. Things like that worry me and are part of the reason I seek buffs to things like Asylum to allow more GCDs rather than Assize. I still want Asylum at 60s to shore it up alongside how amazing CU is right now. There are other reasons I dislike more and more strength on oGCD AoE healing, but I'll save that for another time.

C'est la vie. The PI changes and aggro changes are ridiculously late and ridiculously warranted at this point - they won't get much praise from me out of that. Meanwhile, WHM dungeon explosiveness just went up, both from more assize damage and more assize MP for more holies if the pulls warrant it. That's kinda neat I guess?

I wish they gave Assize an Enmity Reduction too, lol..

I'm already at the cusp of pulling hate in the first minute of O10S. I will DEFINITELY pull hate now with the Assize change since I'm generating 33% more aggro with that skill right then and there.

I have little else to add to anything else that hasn't already been discussed.

A minor buff to WHM, I thought it was to be a potency increase, or that was the hope. It's a good start...

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I'm already at the cusp of pulling hate in the first minute of O10S. I will DEFINITELY pull hate now with the Assize change since I'm generating 33% more aggro with that skill right then and there.

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We heard you liked Akh Morn, so we decided to change Cure 3's graphic to a sparkly white magic Akh Morn too.

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Originally Posted by Erakir

We heard you liked Akh Morn, so we decided to change Cure 3's graphic to a sparkly white magic Akh Morn too.

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Funny enough, I don't even Cure III there. LOL. Literally the only healing I have going out for the first minute is Regen on the MT and Medica II when the first Akh Morn is fired (my co healer takes care of the rest with Star). Normally the only other healing I do is Benediction the first Tail End since its Holmgang'd. I'm usually orange hate before this Benediction.

My Assize's are 100% overheal that now generate 33% more hate! *Gets Tail End'd*

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Funny enough, I don't even Cure III there. LOL. Literally the only healing I have going out for the first minute is Regen on the MT and Medica II when the first Akh Morn is fired (my co healer takes care of the rest with Star). Normally the only other healing I do is Benediction the first Tail End since its Holmgang'd. I'm usually orange hate before this Benediction.

My Assize's are 100% overheal that now generate 33% more hate! *Gets Tail End'd*

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This is pretty much what I do there, yeah, just with a SCH partner instead of AST. And depending on tank, if I don't stagger my aggro reduce, that Benediction has me pull hate and I die even without the change...
Or at least things get chaotic.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Funny enough, I don't even Cure III there. LOL. Literally the only healing I have going out for the first minute is Regen on the MT and Medica II when the first Akh Morn is fired (my co healer takes care of the rest with Star). Normally the only other healing I do is Benediction the first Tail End since its Holmgang'd. I'm usually orange hate before this Benediction.

My Assize's are 100% overheal that now generate 33% more hate! *Gets Tail End'd*

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My AST doesn't seem to star it like, half the time so I've been Cure 3 M2'ing for a long time. I promise you it's as fun with aggro as you can imagine without a NIN~ If I don't lucid immediately after Akh there's a 50% chance I'll have the dragon. On the plus side, rather than dumping PI after Akh I think I can hold it till earthshakers, so that's kinda neat too. Gonna play around with Cure 3, Cure 3, swift M2 when running out this week just to see if I can have a 3 stack for it. Maybe swap a Cure 3 for medica to ensure no overheal for PI stacks and...technically less snap aggro.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I wish they gave Assize an Enmity Reduction too, lol.

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Yeah I was discussing this with my static.

Sure the enmity reductions will help in like... patch and hello word. But my opener's enmity has ironically - despite all the enmity changes - gone up, not down.

Still, I'd happily deal with all the pre-4.5 enmity issues in exchange for some more GCD DPS and maybe some extra weaving opportunities...

A buff is better than nothing but sadly SE will stick there guns with WHM identity to be pure healer.It would be nice to be to see WHM do a lot raw DMG compare 2(currently)/3 others.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

It makes up for the MP that you're spending since you can use it more frequently, but as stated it's like WHM got shafted again. Just stop focusing on the healing aspect of WHM SE and just give us a proper damage buff.

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I don't understand what this has to do with my comment about not needing MP reduction if you get more MP generation. But okay?
Besides, 230 potency per minute is a nice damage boost. Sure, it doesn't close the gap between the other healers, but it's 4.5, who cares, in 6 months it'll be irrelevant.

Personally I'm just glad that we are going to have a potency buff for assize (mainly for the MP gain) and a lower cooldown. WHM has MP management problems. I wonder if this will balance the WHM closer to SCH... now if only there was a better means of MP management for AST considering that trying to depend on RNG to get Ewer is beyong frustrating as well.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

who cares, in 6 months it'll be irrelevant.

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I think that's what people fear.

I am beyond disappointed with these buffs. I wish I had nice things to say about the job itself.

I'm surprised people still expect anything more than a pure healer out of SE. I honestly don't think it's such a bad design for some of the player base, and I'm willing to bet this is exactly why SE has ignored the vocal player base on this for so long (read: players who don't care about optimization and wouldn't stop to give feedback VS players who would < us). It makes sense in the context that WHM is basically your starter healer since the others are gated behind content. It also makes WHM one of the most comfortable healer to level etc. etc. Of course the class needs design changes but their narrative can be sound.

Anyways, I think this will give WHM a bit of extra DPS. Not really sure that's going to be enough though. Next to that this just smells of "we need to rework the class, wait until 5.0"

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Originally Posted by EaMett

I'm surprised people still expect anything more than a pure healer out of SE. I honestly don't think it's such a bad design for some of the player base, and I'm willing to bet this is exactly why SE has ignored the vocal player base on this for so long (read: players who don't care about optimization and wouldn't stop to give feedback VS players who would < us). It makes sense in the context that WHM is basically your starter healer since the others are gated behind content. It also makes WHM one of the most comfortable healer to level etc. etc. Of course the class needs design changes but their narrative can be sound.

Anyways, I think this will give WHM a bit of extra DPS. Not really sure that's going to be enough though. Next to that this just smells of "we need to rework the class, wait until 5.0"

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As I said in another topic, being easy to start on =/= being bad for any except of regular content. Look at PLD, for example. Easiest to learn tank job, but very sought after in high-end content and raiding groups because it's a very good job. Sorry, but people really need to get the idea out of their heads that it's somehow fine for WHM to forever be left on the sidelines because "it should be easy for beginners." The easier it gets into people's heads the better. Yes, it's good to have a job that's not as complex as others, to make it easier to learn the ropes. It's not good, however, if this translates into this job being barred from any part of the game by the community because of it...

I do get your general tenor with your post, though, and agree with it for the most part. I, too, think that the job should at least get a very major DPS buff, but it needs to be a buff that really makes the job worthwhile for statics, and I think that needs a really, really high DPS buff... which I'm not sure it will ever get, unless the defs finally pull their heads out of their asses and open their eyes to reality.

I am of the mind that the healer role is already by default more complex than the other roles. Even more so on controller. I can understand wanting a basic straightforward healer for the player base.
I've played a fair amount with people who either don't bother with savage content or have been on o9s since the start. It's with these players in mind that I can condone the path SE has been walking with WHM until now. (Even though I used to main WHM myself and was just as frustrated as the next with the state of the class). A healer that is essentially forced to only to worry about healing and mechanics is a godsend for some players.

Yeah WHM will always be unbalanced in a farm setting (less during progression) as long as they stick to the pure healer thing (which they have for the past what? 4 years now?). It's not that bad really, I haven't seen any lockouts in recent memory. But, regardless, right now the more important fact is that WHM is just outright clunky. It has no flow, clipping galore, instant GCDs that you can't fill, useless traits and gauge. That's what needs focus and is 5.0 material.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

I'm surprised people still expect anything more than a pure healer out of SE.

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I don't expect it. But I do dare to hope.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Anyways, I think this will give WHM a bit of extra DPS.

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It should help close the gap pretty decently. But unless my theorycrafting is off, it'll make WHM 'slightly less behind', not 'brings good DPS to make up for lack of utility' a la SAM, BLM, MNK.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Next to that this just smells of "we need to rework the class, wait until 5.0"

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Yeah, everyone knows WHM needs a rework. But they could have cut some cast times and bumped up some potencies easily enough. Literally what happened to MNK and MCH just now, and AST in 4.3. It wouldn't fix lillies et al, but it'd give WHM a niche until 5.0

But the bigger issue long term is this pure healer nonsense. If SE doubles down yet again... I predict we'll repeat Heavensward and Stormblood: At first WHM will be decent, but then some content that's hard to heal will come out. The other classes will ask for healing buffs to get on par with WHM. They'll get them. Then WHM... once more... is the red headed stepchild left in the cupboard under the stairs.

The most ridiculous part is this is the only FF with the "pure healer" thing. All other FFs that had jobs or an approximation thereof - white mage brings the buffs.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Sorry, but people really need to get the idea out of their heads that it's somehow fine for WHM to forever be left on the sidelines because "it should be easy for beginners."

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WHM's numbers in terms of players are actually not that far from AST (O9S, O10S, O11S). It's also the best healer for your everyday's roulettes, and performs well in Extreme content considering the overall lower skill level.
It's definitly not on the sidelines for a lot of content.

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Originally Posted by Erakir

My AST doesn't seem to star it like, half the time so I've been Cure 3 M2'ing for a long time. I promise you it's as fun with aggro as you can imagine without a NIN~ If I don't lucid immediately after Akh there's a 50% chance I'll have the dragon. On the plus side, rather than dumping PI after Akh I think I can hold it till earthshakers, so that's kinda neat too. Gonna play around with Cure 3, Cure 3, swift M2 when running out this week just to see if I can have a 3 stack for it. Maybe swap a Cure 3 for medica to ensure no overheal for PI stacks and...technically less snap aggro.

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I feel like you SHOULD be able to get away with a Cure III + Medica II. Also if you open the fight with Assize (I tend to use it on the second GCD), you should have it back in time for Akh Morn resolving so there's that too.

I'm trying to think if there are good instances to use PI since 30s still feels light for how the fight timeline is.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I feel like you SHOULD be able to get away with a Cure III + Medica II. Also if you open the fight with Assize (I tend to use it on the second GCD), you should have it back in time for Akh Morn resolving so there's that too.

I'm trying to think if there are good instances to use PI since 30s still feels light for how the fight timeline is.

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Oh I can definitely get away with a Cure 3 and M2, especially if largesse'd - the third cast I'm only considering just to give me a 3 stack PI for the earthshakers later on. Not cause it'd be necessary but just cause I like...want to hit that 3 stack for funsies~ I do open with Assize, didn't think about it coming back up for Akh Morn too now. Gonna take some playing around in other fights to see what confession timers feel like, especially since we're already used to PI usage based on the 10s duration. A large part of me just wants to be lazy and just do what's been working for farm~

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Originally Posted by Erakir

Oh I can definitely get away with a Cure 3 and M2, especially if largesse'd - the third cast I'm only considering just to give me a 3 stack PI for the earthshakers later on. Not cause it'd be necessary but just cause I like...want to hit that 3 stack for funsies~ I do open with Assize, didn't think about it coming back up for Akh Morn too now. Gonna take some playing around in other fights to see what confession timers feel like, especially since we're already used to PI usage based on the 10s duration. A large part of me just wants to be lazy and just do what's been working for farm~

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Duly noted xD Have fun!

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

But the bigger issue long term is this pure healer nonsense. If SE doubles down yet again... I predict we'll repeat Heavensward and Stormblood: At first WHM will be decent, but then some content that's hard to heal will come out. The other classes will ask for healing buffs to get on par with WHM. They'll get them. Then WHM... once more... is the red headed stepchild left in the cupboard under the stairs.

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If they introduce a new healer I would be surprised if they moved away from the pure healer niche. We can always keep our fingers crossed though.

As a WHM main since 2.0, I'd really like to see it have a place in this game again that makes people actually want it.

It's not top heals, AST is.
It's not top DPS, AST is, followed by SCH, with WHM in last place.
It doesn't bring any actual utility while AST brings versatile utility and SCH brings stable utility.

I don't know, I've never had a problem with MP management unless people are dying left and right due to their own stupidity, and good MP management is like the consolation prize you give to a three year old to pacify them when someone else wins. Between MP Song and Mana Shift, it counts for little.

I'd like at least one of the following:
1.) Potency buff for Stone/Aero
2.) Presence of Mind's cool down being reduced.
3.) AoE Presence of Mind.

I am happy with the reduction in enmity... but like others have said, in exchange for Assize racking in more hate generation than it already was. And I'm extremely glad for Plenary, because it's one of those skills that you just popped because you needed extra heals, now it can be timed to use more efficiently, which hey, it's useful now... x.x; At nearly the end of Storm Blood... but it's useful now right?

I'll take the changes, but it doesn't boost my confidence in what is in store for WHM in 5.0.

Whitemage is the king when it comes to "I have all the healy buttons".

Which is super fun when it comes to the heaviest healing fights in the game but White Mage needs something more if its going to be appealing in the way Ast is apealing with its cards or the way Sch is appealing with its large array of tools & buttons to press along side the pet/multi DoT management.

In ARR I loved Whitemage because it was White Mage. But in HW as I branched out to Ast and eventually Sch is just feels like Whitemage does not supply enough gameplay to compete with the other two healers

I believe SE is going to stick to its guns as well about WHM being the non-gimmick healer, but that impression doesn't come from these patch notes. Were some of you expecting them to add utility to WHM in this patch? My only issue is the ineffectiveness of SoTL2 compared to what the other healers get at 68 has still gone unaddressed. Even by itself it's garbage, and such a disappointing move from the devs.

I will continue to say that we're fighting a winless battle because healers will only continue to leap frog each other. I feel the healer community should not get their hopes up too high for WHM come 5.0. Even if they do get some kind of utility, I don't think it will quite get them on par with SCH and AST. There's only two raid slots for healers folks, and if DNC is introduced we will have two healers warming up the bench.

I am totally cool with WHM remaining a non-gimmick healer. I have two other healers to choose from if I wish for more engaging and challenging gameplay during duties. However, AST and SCH should not bring more damage than WHM. I am not sure if these adjustments will make that happen, but it is definitely relieving to see that they are at least headed that direction.

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Originally Posted by Atlantasia

I'd like at least one of the following:
1.) Potency buff for Stone/Aero
2.) Presence of Mind's cool down being reduced.
3.) AoE Presence of Mind.

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Or how about all three? PoM and Cleric Stance should have the same CD as they are often used together when they line up. PoM is basically Haste, and WHM having AoE haste has been requested for some time now. This still wouldn't bring them to par with SCH or AST, as AST and SCH can already AoE haste a raid, but at least it's something.

I think the devs can still do a lot to improve WHM while still keeping it's non-gimmick identity intact. The AoE PoM could be tied to the lilies with the number of lilies simply increasing its range as just an example. I think everyone would love that, and it is such a simple concept the devs can add come 5.0.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

It makes up for the MP that you're spending since you can use it more frequently, but as stated it's like WHM got shafted again. Just stop focusing on the healing aspect of WHM SE and just give us a proper damage buff.

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Assize restores 10% of mp, so not only are you spending less MP and time on casting healing spells, but you are also dealing damage, and gaining 10% mp back more often. I think people arent seeing the usefulness of this.

So long as the reduction in enmity for the other spells is significant enough, overhealing with assize will be ok, then its actually pretty good.

Its not a potency increase on stone IV, which is what WHM should be getting due to lack of utility and obvious lack in single target damage, but its a very nice change.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

Or an AoE Esuna or some dispell that lets WHM remove all debuffs with a single cast. Or even ReRaise.

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Scholar has this so I don't see why not