Duty finder issues

I don't know if this is a bug or a "feature" but has anyone noticed when using duty finder occasionally you're grouped with a full group of 50+ characters and it puts you in sastasha or Hauke Manor?

Also What is up with the Adventurer in need bonus? Seems to always be tank but when I queue as tank I'm like 6th in queue but the moment I withdraw and requeue as healer it's insta-queue?

One would think that the adventurer in need would point you in the job direction of one that's actually in need. I remember quite a while back this being a thing and it STILL hasn't improved in like 2 years?

Maybe, just maybe, they need to pay people to tank because tanking in this game is such a hassle? I stopped being mainly a tank when I started to have to replace keyboards every 3 weeks because my tab key was constantly getting worn out. Maybe if it wouldn't select a mob in the Dravanian Forelands while you're in Gridania it wouldn't be so bad? Maybe, I dunno.

Either way it's annoying to queue for a dungeon for the adventurer in need bonus as a level 50 healer and get put in sastasha with other players who are all level 50+.

Random will be random. That's...basically it.

Keep in mind that the Adventurer in Need bonus isn't looking explicitly at your level range. It's looking at every last single party from 15 to 69 that's sitting in queue. All of your "Tank Needed" queues likely were for higher level content than you could participate in.

In which case, the improvement they could make here is to switch the "Needed" bonus to indicate if your level range has the need.

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Originally Posted by ChaseNetwork

Keep in mind that the Adventurer in Need bonus isn't looking explicitly at your level range. It's looking at every last single party from 15 to 69 that's sitting in queue. All of your "Tank Needed" queues likely were for higher level content than you could participate in.

In which case, the improvement they could make here is to switch the "Needed" bonus to indicate if your level range has the need.

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If I'm the same level as healer and tank then level range doesn't apply. If I'm 6th in queue as tank and heals is insta-queue then there are more tanks then heals in the queue and it still says Tank is needed. Unless it's basing the need on a per world basis instead of a data center wide basis then the DF is just favoring tanks with the adventurer in need bonus. (which is understandable with what they have to put up with.) I don't have a problem with them favoring tanks but it would make more sense if it were a "as needed" bonus instead of the weird confusing mess that it is.

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Originally Posted by AdrenKael

If I'm the same level as healer and tank then level range doesn't apply. If I'm 6th in queue as tank and heals is insta-queue then there are more tanks then heals in the queue and it still says Tank is needed. Unless it's basing the need on a per world basis instead of a data center wide basis then the DF is just favoring tanks with the adventurer in need bonus. (which is understandable with what they have to put up with.) I don't have a problem with them favoring tanks but it would make more sense if it were a "as needed" bonus instead of the weird confusing mess that it is.

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Not really, no. If the shortage of 50+ tanks is big, it'll have tank in need. You queue in as lvl 49 tank, which of course doesn't fullfill this and bunch of other people might do it too. Now, there is need of lower level healers instead, but not as bad as high level tanks. This'll make your lower level healer get in instantly, but low level tank not. This is example, but one possible alternative for that situation.

For myself, I generally get very much instant tank queue as ~50 tank. Takes a moment on lower. For healers, it's usually instant (then again I'm all 70) or less than minute. My lvl 30 ast alt had to wait for healer queue

You're level 50 on all classes it seems. That means that majority of the queues are beyond you, because the new content is done a lot more often than old content.

If there are ten queues that are for lvl50 or below, all have tanks but none have healers, you'll get dropped instantly into them on a healer. But if there are twenty queues for lvl51 and higher and none of them have tanks while all of them have healers...then there are twenty tanks needed and only ten healers. That means instant queue for every healer and instant queue for every tank above X level up to ten and twenty respectively...but it also means that in need are the tanks, even if lvl50 tank can be Xth in queue.

Sadly even if you had a premade of lv 50+ people you still could get Cutters cry.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

You're level 50 on all classes it seems. That means that majority of the queues are beyond you, because the new content is done a lot more often than old content.

If there are ten queues that are for lvl50 or below, all have tanks but none have healers, you'll get dropped instantly into them on a healer. But if there are twenty queues for lvl51 and higher and none of them have tanks while all of them have healers...then there are twenty tanks needed and only ten healers. That means instant queue for every healer and instant queue for every tank above X level up to ten and twenty respectively...but it also means that in need are the tanks, even if lvl50 tank can be Xth in queue.

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This was on Adrean Dragonstar He's 63 in tank and heals.

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Originally Posted by AdrenKael

This was on Adrean Dragonstar He's 63 in tank and heals.

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Then just replace 50 with 63. There are more queues for 1-63 than 1-50, some of them somewhat active, but it's still not enough to be a majority during certain times of the day. It's rarer to see something like that, but still possible.


The only thing I can think of that's likely to be wrong with adventurer in need is it not updating frequently enough. But I cannot imagine tanks jumping on the roulette the moment it's "in need", seeing as it's in need 99% of the time (random high number, not a statistical fact).

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Originally Posted by ChaseNetwork

Keep in mind that the Adventurer in Need bonus isn't looking explicitly at your level range. It's looking at every last single party from 15 to 69 that's sitting in queue. All of your "Tank Needed" queues likely were for higher level content than you could participate in.

In which case, the improvement they could make here is to switch the "Needed" bonus to indicate if your level range has the need.

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In all fairness, I've also seen this happen (where 'tank' is needed but healer is instant-queue while tank is not)

edit: ....and I'm level 70 everything with all classes at a high enough ilvl to do all content via DF.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

In all fairness, I've also seen this happen (where 'tank' is needed but healer is instant-queue while tank is not)

edit: ....and I'm level 70 everything with all classes at a high enough ilvl to do all content via DF.

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Thank you. You told me what I need to know. This is what I'm referring to when I say level doesn't really apply. Also considering if you queue for things like leveling duty (for the daily bonus) level is irrelevant since you can be level 69 and get put into sastasha (even if the whole group is 50+ you still might get sastasha lol).

At first I read this as being thrown in a duty with 50+ character players and I was like, dang, I want to experience THAT bug.

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Originally Posted by AdrenKael

Thank you. You told me what I need to know. This is what I'm referring to when I say level doesn't really apply. Also considering if you queue for things like leveling duty (for the daily bonus) level is irrelevant since you can be level 69 and get put into sastasha (even if the whole group is 50+ you still might get sastasha lol).

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No problem. What I think is going on is it's more of an average of the past few minutes than the current players right that second...because in those instances if I wait a bit it changes after a minute or two from tank being in need to healer being in need (or occasionally DPS being in need, but that's typically only on AR roulette).

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Originally Posted by AdrenKael

level is irrelevant since you can be level 69 and get put into sastasha (even if the whole group is 50+ you still might get sastasha lol).

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That's... exactly the point we made. If you queue in as lvl70, you get put in with all the people running high and low level as well as just roulettes. If you queue in as lvl 50, your pool decreases to 15-47 dungeons and roulette runners.

Since I haven't seen a clear answer yet...

1) Why does [Role] in need not get me instant queues when I queue as [Role]?
Because the system doesn't update in real time. You and 300 other people saw it say Tank in need, so the first couple tanks might've gotten instant queues, but now there's more tanks in the queue than there are healers. I don't know how often the [Role] in need system updates, but it doesn't roll over as soon as the tanks surpass the healers.

2) Why can I still get Sastasha and other low-level duties when the entire party is clearly way over the level of the dungeon?
If all party members were queued for the roulette (rather than those queued for specific dungeons), then it's up to RNG which dungeon you get.

Obviously, I didn't build the system, so take these answers with a grain of salt. These are merely my own assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Turnipsi

That's... exactly the point we made. If you queue in as lvl70, you get put in with all the people running high and low level as well as just roulettes. If you queue in as lvl 50, your pool decreases to 15-47 dungeons and roulette runners.

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It's slightly different. What you're referring to is that, for example, when I queue up in Leveling Roulette at lv70 I'm agreeing to help people doing the lv15 dungeon or any leveling dungeon all the way up...and could get anything as low as Satasha.

What he's talking about is when EVERYBODY in the group is at a higher level they're still getting stuff like Satasha, which in that instance admittedly makes less sense (but does happen).

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Since I haven't seen a clear answer yet...


2) Why can I still get Sastasha and other low-level duties when the entire party is clearly way over the level of the dungeon?
If all party members were queued for the roulette (rather than those queued for specific dungeons), then it's up to RNG which dungeon you get.

Obviously, I didn't build the system, so take these answers with a grain of salt. These are merely my own assumptions.

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If a dungeon is listed as one of the possibilities in a queue, it has a chance to show up. It doesn't matter what level you or your friends are. Like I said at the start of the thread...random will be random.

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Originally Posted by Turnipsi

That's... exactly the point we made. If you queue in as lvl70, you get put in with all the people running high and low level as well as just roulettes. If you queue in as lvl 50, your pool decreases to 15-47 dungeons and roulette runners.

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So when I queue for main scenario as tank as adventurer in need and Im level 63 and I have to wait in line position number 6 but I leave the queue and requeue as heals and it's insta-queue. Please explain how my pool has decreased since the only duties in there are castrum and praetorium?.

Raldo is probably right. It's not updating fast enough. Which means that adventurer in need is not what's really needed. With Main scenario since the only dungeons I'm aware of in that Duty list are Castrum and Prae and I'm above that in both tank and heals level is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by AdrenKael

I don't know if this is a bug or a "feature" but has anyone noticed when using duty finder occasionally you're grouped with a full group of 50+ characters and it puts you in sastasha or Hauke Manor?

Also What is up with the Adventurer in need bonus? Seems to always be tank but when I queue as tank I'm like 6th in queue but the moment I withdraw and requeue as healer it's insta-queue?

One would think that the adventurer in need would point you in the job direction of one that's actually in need. I remember quite a while back this being a thing and it STILL hasn't improved in like 2 years?

Maybe, just maybe, they need to pay people to tank because tanking in this game is such a hassle? I stopped being mainly a tank when I started to have to replace keyboards every 3 weeks because my tab key was constantly getting worn out. Maybe if it wouldn't select a mob in the Dravanian Forelands while you're in Gridania it wouldn't be so bad? Maybe, I dunno.

Either way it's annoying to queue for a dungeon for the adventurer in need bonus as a level 50 healer and get put in sastasha with other players who are all level 50+.

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Well its a roulette and you get random stuff in every possible levelrange no matter if there is someone level 18 or all are level 70. Yeah its really annoying especially if you are leveling something and you hope for something "usefull" but you either swallow the pill or you don't bother with queing for that roulette.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Well its a roulette and you get random stuff in every possible levelrange no matter if there is someone level 18 or all are level 70. Yeah its really annoying especially if you are leveling something and you hope for something "usefull" but you either swallow the pill or you don't bother with queing for that roulette.

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Yep. I've queue for leveling roulette before and got Ifrit, Garuda and Titan normal on more than one occasion. People just have to accept that it's a possibility. If they can't...well, roulettes aren't for them.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

It's slightly different. What you're referring to is that, for example, when I queue up in Leveling Roulette at lv70 I'm agreeing to help people doing the lv15 dungeon or any leveling dungeon all the way up...and could get anything as low as Satasha.

What he's talking about is when EVERYBODY in the group is at a higher level they're still getting stuff like Satasha, which in that instance admittedly makes less sense (but does happen).

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Exactly It REALLY needs to put you into a dungeon that is suitable for the lowest level in the group not putting 4 level 55's in sastasha since the xp gain in that dungeon is... somewhat lacking when compared to Aurum Vale or The Aery. Or even worse is when all 4 are level 60 and above and it puts you into The Bowl of Embers.... Poor DPS it's a total waste of a leveling queue, albeit you still get the daily bonus but still...

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yep. I've queue for leveling roulette before and got Ifrit, Garuda and Titan normal on more than one occasion. People just have to accept that it's a possibility. If they can't...well, roulettes aren't for them.

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Oh yes the beloved baby primals...i always facepalm if i get them when i level something. On the other hand they are quickly done if you compare it to several dungeons in that level range.

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Originally Posted by AdrenKael

Exactly It REALLY needs to put you into a dungeon that is suitable for the lowest level in the group not putting 4 level 55's in sastasha since the xp gain in that dungeon is... somewhat lacking when compared to Aurum Vale or The Aery. Or even worse is when all 4 are level 60 and above and it puts you into The Bowl of Embers.... Poor DPS it's a total waste of a leveling queue, albeit you still get the daily bonus but still...

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But...it's leveling roulette. Look at all the possibilities listed under that category. There's a ton. Don't like it? Don't queue.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

People just have to accept that it's a possibility. If they can't...well, roulettes aren't for them.

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My only qualm with this is it would take very few lines of code to change it. It's not much more complicated then if (var = ( int)). I know WHY they don't, increase in server stress, but to say just don't queue I can't agree with. Especially when a more streamlined queue is only a few lines of code away.

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Originally Posted by AdrenKael

My only qualm with this is it would take very few lines of code to change it. It's not much more complicated then if (var = ( int)). I know WHY they don't, increase in server stress, but to say just don't queue I can't agree with. Especially when a more streamlined queue is only a few lines of code away.

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It's a simple solution. Don't like it? Don't do it. That's really all that needs to be said. I don't think it's really about server stress. They want to keep lower level content active. The ARR and HW relics were proof of this. So...again, if it's an issue then don't take part in it.

The bonus at the end is supposed to make up for the lower level.

You'll get a middling bonus when you're in a level 51 dungeon at level 53. But you'll get a giant chunk, at least a third of a level, if you land in baby Stash.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

The bonus at the end is supposed to make up for the lower level.

You'll get a middling bonus when you're in a level 51 dungeon at level 53. But you'll get a giant chunk, at least a third of a level, if you land in baby Stash.

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Yep. My old FC leader used to have us take at least one low-level job/class so we would get ARR dungeons. And Sastasha was the goal (even though we'd sometimes que with all members at lvl 68/69 and still get it). I get what the OP is saying though. If you're in a pre-formed party (Full Light), then getting stuff like Sastasha is kind of a downer, even with the larger EXP bonus. I'm hoping that in 5.0 they add a Maximum Average toggle that allows Full-Light parties to get a dungeon based on the lowest level character. Because the random thing is moot when you're fully preformed--you're not filling a slot. I feel like this would jump-start using the Party Finder for Roulettes again instead of those tags just being for ads.

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Originally Posted by AdrenKael

Exactly It REALLY needs to put you into a dungeon that is suitable for the lowest level in the group not putting 4 level 55's in sastasha since the xp gain in that dungeon is... somewhat lacking when compared to Aurum Vale or The Aery.

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You get about the same amount of experience from EVERY leveling roulette, wherever you end up.

The total of mob experience + bonus experience is always going to come close to the threshold they decided for the leveling roulette to give by means of changing the bonus experience amount. In other words, the only time doing the leveling roulette is a waste of time if you end up in low level dungeon is if you never actually finish it...but then you just wasted time in queue, not the leveling roulette run.

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

Because the random thing is moot when you're fully preformed--you're not filling a slot. I feel like this would jump-start using the Party Finder for Roulettes again instead of those tags just being for ads.

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Except they don't want that. If people could manipulate what they get in the leveling roulette, people would manipulate what they get in it. And if they did then it would slowly stop serving its purpose. Right now there's not much of importance in whether you are preformed or not. All you need is one tank or healer in party for fast queue and there's little incentive to look for other people. You'd just be wasting time that could serve better to run through the dungeon. But if pre-made parties could avoid unwanted dungeons, people would find it valuable enough to waste 10-15 minutes looking for people to do it with, thus taking all of those people away from the queue. Less and less people would fill up the slots for queues that need them.


Also, seriously people. Learn what is the meaning of "roulette". Do you go to casinos and say "hey, this roulette, you should make sure it's only going in black because that's all I want to bet on"? No. The ball can fall in any of the boxes with equal chances. That's the whole point of a roulette. That's the whole point of the duty finder roulettes being called roulettes.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It's a simple solution. Don't like it? Don't do it. That's really all that needs to be said. I don't think it's really about server stress. They want to keep lower level content active. The ARR and HW relics were proof of this. So...again, if it's an issue then don't take part in it.

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The older content is still alive by the people leveling up new classes, new players etc. I have NO problems going into a sastasha run with a tank, healer or dps who needs it for the story or the mob xp. I've volunteered so many times to heal or tank queue for FC mates who need it even though I was queuing as a level 50 or 60+ and he needs sastasha or Copperbell or Garuda. No problems doing that at all and we're not talking about that. We're talking about a way to fix something that is an issue yet you're saying don't fix just ignore it. That's NOT a solution that's just ignoring the problem. Simply fixing it to where if the whole group the DF pairs you with is 50+ you get queued into the highest level dungeon that the weakest member qualifies for. It doesn't do that. A whle group of 50+ members can be put into sastasha even though no one needs it. If you're doing it as tank/healer for the daily bonus and you're in a group of all 50's and it tosses you into garuda norm that's dumb. Especially when it's easily fixable. Hope that clears up your confusion as to the reason why I have an issue with it.

Hey now don't knock the 3 story mode baby primals I had a friend level twice off of Ifrit once. Also if you really want to eek out all the xp in a place then clear it out, use food, squadron xp scrolls, xp accessories if you happen to get something where they'd kick in. Heck I've ran Hakkue Manor so many times that I know that if you're X levels above the cap you have to clear the whole place out to come close to leveling if not actually get a level in there. Does it suck when you're lv 68 and you get Cutters Cry for the fourth time that week? Very much. Should there be tweaks to the system? Probably. Will we see it any time soon? Probably not and the best thing we can hope for is that it'll change in 5.0.

I'd just like a way to prevent long strings of the same dungeon. I've had thirteen days of Aurum Vale on two separate occasions.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I'd just like a way to prevent long strings of the same dungeon. I've had thirteen days of Aurum Vale on two separate occasions.

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Yes it would be nice because i don't want to end up in WoD or LotA all the time i que up for alliance roulette, but that also falls under the roulette rule aka. RNGesus hates us.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Yes it would be nice because i don't want to end up in WoD or LotA all the time i que up for alliance roulette, but that also falls under the roulette rule aka. RNGesus hates us.

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Roulette combined with the fact that you can only get the highest-level dungeon that EVERYONE has unlocked. That means in alliance raids it only takes one person out of 24 to be under Lv60, and you have no choice but to do Crystal Tower yet again.

For me the worst part of Alliance roulette is when you know you probably only got that one because enough people qued up for it solo because of WT. At least that's what I blame when it's weeks of Crystal tower stuff except on monday or tuesday when people go oh yeah WT and you finally break the streak with a Dun Scaith that has a first time bonus attached to it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Roulette combined with the fact that you can only get the highest-level dungeon that EVERYONE has unlocked. That means in alliance raids it only takes one person out of 24 to be under Lv60, and you have no choice but to do Crystal Tower yet again.

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You don't have to explain to me how roulettes work, i know that, its still annoying if you get the same stuff over and over and over again. Thats why i rarely do roulettes.

The only think I'd like being done with DF is get a notice when "adventurer in need" changes.
I'm these days "fishing" for dps or healer just to break a bit from tanking, and now I need check statuses manually every now and then.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

The only think I'd like being done with DF is get a notice when "adventurer in need" changes.
I'm these days "fishing" for dps or healer just to break a bit from tanking, and now I need check statuses manually every now and then.

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Yea I get excited when it's dps. I can set back and relax a bit during a dungeon instead of having to contend with direction the mobs are facing, who's taking damage, who's pulling threat, where the pats are etc. etc. All I have to worry about is staying out of the aoes and killing what needs to be killed.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

You get about the same amount of experience from EVERY leveling roulette, wherever you end up.

The total of mob experience + bonus experience is always going to come close to the threshold they decided for the leveling roulette to give by means of changing the bonus experience amount. In other words, the only time doing the leveling roulette is a waste of time if you end up in low level dungeon is if you never actually finish it...but then you just wasted time in queue, not the leveling roulette run.

Except they don't want that. If people could manipulate what they get in the leveling roulette, people would manipulate what they get in it. And if they did then it would slowly stop serving its purpose. Right now there's not much of importance in whether you are preformed or not. All you need is one tank or healer in party for fast queue and there's little incentive to look for other people. You'd just be wasting time that could serve better to run through the dungeon. But if pre-made parties could avoid unwanted dungeons, people would find it valuable enough to waste 10-15 minutes looking for people to do it with, thus taking all of those people away from the queue. Less and less people would fill up the slots for queues that need them.


Also, seriously people. Learn what is the meaning of "roulette". Do you go to casinos and say "hey, this roulette, you should make sure it's only going in black because that's all I want to bet on"? No. The ball can fall in any of the boxes with equal chances. That's the whole point of a roulette. That's the whole point of the duty finder roulettes being called roulettes.

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I get that. But they already made PF tags so they acknowledge that people are going to use that for preform. I know its primarily relief for DPS who's ques are 10+ minutes, but still. Maybe if they just made the option available if you are queuing inside the FC workshop, like how you can for diadem. And not make it a guaranteed dungeon. More like if your overall level average is greater than 61, you'll get anything between 51 to 61 depending on what your lowest level party member allows. Only with full preform. Its convoluted enough that most wont bother but available for those who want to go through the trouble. I honestly don't think that would impact the system that negatively. My old FC preformed almost exclusively, and I'm sure others do too.

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

I honestly don't think that would impact the system that negatively. My old FC preformed almost exclusively, and I'm sure others do too.

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If that was the case, DPS line would not be so horrendously long. As it is, DPS + healer/tank is going to be queued almost instantly for leveling roulette. That means that all those DPS's in the DPS line are solo players or DPS duo players. That means that they don't even have a healer or tank to party with, for whatever reason.

There is zero reason for Square Enix to bother implementing some convoluted mechanism for players to be able to bypass their simple solution to never-filling queues for old dungeons. That's going through a lot of effort to sabotage themselves, while the roulettes work fine and they work as intended. There's nothing broken here, there's nothing to fix here. The only problems that the roulettes have are related to the community, things like class distribution and such.

Party finder tags are there to simplify forming parties. That's obvious, yes, but I seem to need to state the obvious. Nowhere in the party finder does it state that by using it you can receive some sort of preferential treatment. The point still stands. If you want a specific dungeon (like a dungeon at your level range) then run that dungeon. The bonus that the roulette gives is there to incentivize you into running something you may not want to run, which then can be taken advantage to fill in the queues if necessary. It's not to progress you faster every day through your levels. That's the outcome, not the point of it.

By the posts I'm gathering that most people would like:
A.) A better adventurer in need system. One that notifies you and updates more regularly.
B.) A Better DF. One that includes things like group character level in deciding what dungeon it puts you into (no more sastasha runs for parties consisting of all level 40+).
c.) A DF that doesn't string you into the same dungeon over and over (if there is an option).

The only issue I can foresee is in C. If you're in queue and you've done 4 runs of copperbell back to back and someone needs copperbell and you're the only tank in queue I don't think it's fair to pass that DPS or healer by to the next one in line just because someone has done a string of dungeons. Of course that situation would be one in a million unless there is an influx of new players.

Funny thing is I remember a few years ago these same things being suggested. I am impressed by the progress they've made but I wonder why something that "SHOULD" be easy to code is not being implemented. I guess it all depends on what their management team says because even a first year intern should be able to write something that could accomplish both A and B in 30 minutes or so.