Does SE plan to rework stats

When the player pole was done once upon a time ago it turned out people were not happy with stats. Well guess what, they still arnt.

The fact that stats mean different thing to different classes i find a bit odd but that's something im will to deal with.

Things like hidden stat caps and thresholds are a bit annoying. We have to to our own stat testing to see if adding extra stats which should improve damage will in fact do damage.

Base stats are way too high, If ifrit hits you and you have nothing on to protect you it should be instant death. We are in fact just adventures, not immortal sons of gods.

So my question is are the stats getting reworked again or is this the final product.

I would like to see a system were base stats are next to nothing and you gained all your stats through your gear and materia. id also like the hidden threshold/caps to be posted or if you hit a cap or threshold your stat changes color

strength 107
dex 83 hit cap
vit 101
piety 50
int 67
mind 34

great i misspelled the title

Base stats and gear should be equal imo.

40% Base Stats
40% gear (30% base stats 10% materia)
10% Food
10% Buffs (Protect etc)

Is how I feel it should be.

Edited for wording ><

Considering they already reworked them entirely once, I don't think they're going to do it again. A little bit of balancing or tweaks here and there sure but I think things are mostly going to stay as is.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Considering they already reworked them entirely once, I don't think they're going to do it again. A little bit of balancing or tweaks here and there sure but I think things are mostly going to stay as is.

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but they reworked them because people were unhappy with the effect stats had in game play. Since people are still unhappy(not including you) i would like a response on their stance on stats. Maybe it will be part of the new player poll, if we ever get it.

I think I would be okay IF there was more of a stat transparency and/or dynamic tool tips.

Dynamic tool tip that gives an average or estimate that we can expect from the ability. This may factor in our level, our stats, our potency, and traits. I understand the current model is not set this way, but would like to see something closer for 2.0.

Isn't that what this thread talks about?

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Isn't that what this thread talks about?

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imo that thread is a little all over the place. i wanted my op to be a clear question to the dev team.

its hard to make any type of valid point when theres a flame war going on.

Personally I don't like a majority of stats coming from gear like that. I don't want to be on an endless gear upgrade treadmill for character improvement.

That said, it would be nice if there was more information about caps etc.

It would be nice if U/U Gear had stats that were not found on any other gear nor on materia....after all it is supposed to be UNIQUE (like Kraken Club)

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

but they reworked them because people were unhappy with the effect stats had in game play. Since people are still unhappy(not including you) i would like a response on their stance on stats. Maybe it will be part of the new player poll, if we ever get it.

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I don't think they changed them solely because people were unhappy though. We have gone through a series of combat, class, crafting, equipment and soon to be medicine/food reforms. Add on top of all of that jobs and it becomes pretty apparent that they NEEDED to change how stats worked to accommodate all of those things.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

It would be nice if U/U Gear had stats that were not found on any other gear nor on materia....after all it is supposed to be UNIQUE (like Kraken Club)

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there is that here and there but its not that great. mog weapons have drain hp/mp, ifrit weapons do fire damage for extra damage(which is very good actually) sent arms have +5 block rate(still doesn't help blocks though)

but yea, more unique stats would be nice.

imo endgame is gear driven. half my LS don't want to do moogle anymore cause they don't want the gear.

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I don't think they changed them solely because people were unhappy though. We have gone through a series of combat, class, crafting, equipment and soon to be medicine/food reforms. Add on top of all of that jobs and it becomes pretty apparent that they NEEDED to change how stats worked to accommodate all of those things.

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im pretty sure they mentioned changing them because people wanted stats to mean more then they did. but your right with all the other changes the stats would have needed to be reworked anyway.

i personally find it sad that people don't pursue better gear because they don't see any benefit from doing so. i think it will end in fail if it goes unchecked for too long.

they need to be reworked. i hate seeing someone naked wearing just a good weapon being almost as effective as someone that's wearing double slotted gear. to me the game shouldn't be based on having the best gear, although it does help, but it should be based on wearing gear that is of the correct level.

i guess if i broke it down a rank 50 character should be good with r41-50 gear, but better with materia r50 gear. if they are wearing a reindeer suit then they should be one shot by an equal level mob.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

there is that here and there but its not that great. mog weapons have drain hp/mp, ifrit weapons do fire damage for extra damage(which is very good actually) sent arms have +5 block rate(still doesn't help blocks though)

but yea, more unique stats would be nice.

imo endgame is gear driven. half my LS don't want to do moogle anymore cause they don't want the gear.



im pretty sure they mentioned changing them because people wanted stats to mean more then they did. but your right with all the other changes the stats would have needed to be reworked anyway.

i personally find it sad that people don't pursue better gear because they don't see any benefit from doing so. i think it will end in fail if it goes unchecked for too long.

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Yes, Moogle and Ifrit weapons are a good example of this even if they totally screwed up on the mag weapons in both cases (don't get me started on the mp proc on melee).

And as Darkstarpoet mentions above, the fact that Primals can be taken out with Reindeer Suits + Ifrit Weapon is proof positive that stats themselves need to be reworked.

It would be nice to see a greater effect placed on stats. This doesnt mean stats have to be reworked from the ground up. Only that they be adjusted to have a greater impact.

It is especially distressing in crafting. A higher % to materia meld based on mgk crft crft and control would be desireable as well.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Base stats and gear should be equal imo.

40% Base Stats
40% gear (30% base stats 10% materia)
10% Food
10% Buffs (Protect etc)

Is how I feel it should be.

Edited for wording ><

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Shouldn't materia/gear have a heavier weight?

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

they need to be reworked. i hate seeing someone naked wearing just a good weapon being almost as effective as someone that's wearing double slotted gear. to me the game shouldn't be based on having the best gear, although it does help, but it should be based on wearing gear that is of the correct level.

i guess if i broke it down a rank 50 character should be good with r41-50 gear, but better with materia r50 gear. if they are wearing a reindeer suit then they should be one shot by an equal level mob.

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In general, I tend to agree with this. Wearing level 1 gear should get you obliterated in the ifrit, moogle, DH battles, but it doesn't. Wearing apropriate level gear sure make a huge difference, and wearing top end gear should make a a bigger difference still.

Personally, I would prefere about double the amount of points we can allot per class as well.

I agree we need stats looking at again, if a tank can survive ifrit's swipe/vulcan burst/w/e else the tank gets hit by in a reindeer suit/santa suit/bikini/naked there is a problem, I think stats need re-evaluating urgently, stats on armour are barely noticable, infact after I melded a +17 STR materia to my LNC hands and I was hitting Ifrit for exactly the same, +17 STR should have a noticable differance but because stats are balanced with 500+ then there is no point in single melds with T4 materia because there is barely any differance, the only point is with double, triple or further.

I wouldnt entirely say make base stats very low, because that will effectively make people think "use xxx gear of gtfo" but with careful balancing it could be made that slightly inferior gear is still useful, and the single STR/DEX/MND/INT/PIE melds have use for the people that cant afford to blow up 10 pieces of gear and 20 pieces of materia to just get one double meld to work.

The one point I'll agree with is gear mattering more, specifically about lower level gear. Wearing level 1 gear at cap should get you killed pretty damn fast, if not in one hit. This is probably an issue with how Defense works if I had to guess. You should feel like there's a reason for you to get the proper gear for your level.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

imo endgame is gear driven. half my LS don't want to do moogle anymore cause they don't want the gear.

i personally find it sad that people don't pursue better gear because they don't see any benefit from doing so. i think it will end in fail if it goes unchecked for too long.

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I guess it boils down to your take on endgame. In games more like WOW, end game is definitely gear driven, as you need the gear from one tier of endgame to progress to the next. The biggest issue there is homogonization of the looks of the classes.

One thing I LOVE about XIV is the fact that I can walk by a bunch of different say.. Marauders.. all around the same level, and rarely will the two look alike. Now at 50, when everybody is wearing the crafted Cobolt gear, well, OK we all start to look a bit the same, but at least we can pick from a couple different colors.

I guess I'm really on the fence a bit.. I mean, I want gear to improve my combat performance, however, at the same time, I don't want to be forced to get a specific piece of gear because that is what is necessary in order to progress through the game.

I pursue new gear all the time. The benefit? My character looks freakin' cool when I get a new set of duds!

honestly i'm positive on a formula like FFXI, where stats counts, but not so much.
Gear driven mmos force you to keen on pair with every new content, literally trashing everything in the meanwhile

this thread is also about, if SE thinks the stats are ok, can we get a better understanding of how they work at least. I personally don't have the time to stat test every class i play.

if a stat caps at 280 then make it red so i now not to put any more points in it.

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honestly i'm positive on a formula like FFXI, where stats counts, but not so much.
Gear driven mmos force you to keen on pair with every new content, literally trashing everything in the meanwhile

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gear driven doesn't have to mean things become obsolete. if moogle weapons had the same stats as ifrit but had a lighting damage effect then people would want to get them to save for fights were enemy's are weak to lightning while still holding onto the ifrit weapons. Only when they dramatically increase the attack power will other weapons become obsolete.

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Base stats and gear should be equal imo.

40% Base Stats
40% gear (30% base stats 10% materia)
10% Food
10% Buffs (Protect etc)

Is how I feel it should be.

Edited for wording ><

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Originally Posted by Rau

Shouldn't materia/gear have a heavier weight?

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Like I said, it's just my opinion, but I don't feel like the materia should matter more than the gear does.

It's my opinion that materia should supplement gear.

If stats were balanced correctly, a 10% increase in any stat should be substantial.

Right now? No 10% stats wouldn't be substantial.. I was just making up numbers for my above hypothetical example.

A couple things,

1. I believe that for level 50 and below content (keep in mind, 50 is NOT endgame...it's mid-game at best) gear should make things easier but NOT be required to be able to complete a fight. Once you start requiring uber sexy gears, you start eliminating who can and can't do that content. Everyone should be able to beat Moogle/Ifrit/DH etc. on their player skill alone, and not because they are wearing sexy gears.

2. However gear SHOULD make it much easier. So if you are all decked out in top level gear, and have decent player skills, and are in a party of people geared the same, you should be able to quickly and efficiently kill the Primal/Stronghold/etc content.

3. Foods, potions etc, should just give an additional edge.

4.Now based on this, I'd say stats actually aren't that far off...esp. if all that was changed is gear stats, esp melded gears, to give a more visible boost to stats and damage in the level 50 fights.

But to say that just because a skilled party in reindeer suits killed Ifrit/Moogle etc, the stats are broken is wrong. Player skill should ALWAYS be > gear and weapons. People might have a stronger point if Ifrit/Darkhold/Moogle was cleared just as quickly, risk-free with level 1 gears/naked as a party completely geared up in the best stuff. But to my knowledge it has not been. (I don't recall seeing a less than 10 min clear in reindeer suits for instance).

Agree with OP base stats should be low.

As someone else said in the other thread, if base stats were around 50-70 @ lvl 50 a piece of gear with a +3 stat would be massive and really make a difference.

Also agree with the person who suggested dynamic tool tips , same for visible stat caps.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

1. I believe that for level 50 and below content (keep in mind, 50 is NOT endgame...it's mid-game at best) gear should make things easier but NOT be required to be able to complete a fight. Once you start requiring uber sexy gears, you start eliminating who can and can't do that content. Everyone should be able to beat Moogle/Ifrit/DH etc. on their player skill alone, and not because they are wearing sexy gears.

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This is madness, fact is even if you don't have the top tier gear you should be wearing at least something besides your panties and bra, killing stuff naked is a joke and proves that gear really doesn't have much purpose in this game.
Anybody should beable afford or make a regular set of lvl 48 gear by the time they are lvl 50.

I agree with Dr.Mog that materia should be scaled back quite a bit.

I would go base stats 25% and gear 65%

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Originally Posted by Jinko

This is madness, fact is even if you don't have the top tier gear you should be wearing at least something besides your panties and bra, killing stuff naked is a joke and proves that gear really doesn't have much purpose in this game.
Anybody should beable afford or make a regular set of lvl 48 gear by the time they are lvl 50.

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True, if you're in your bra and panties, you shouldn't be able to beat the encounter. I totally agree there, however, I'd really hate to see this game go down the road of the whole reverse funnel gearing trend, where you have the widest variety of gear available at the lower levels, slowly dwindling to a few select "best in slot" pieces later on.

If you place too much emphasis on gear stats, you inevitably wind up in a situation where people get turned down for content because they don't have the required gear, where ideally the criteria should be whether or not they are appropriately geared.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

True, if you're in your bra and panties, you shouldn't be able to beat the encounter. I totally agree there, however, I'd really hate to see this game go down the road of the whole reverse funnel gearing trend, where you have the widest variety of gear available at the lower levels, slowly dwindling to a few select "best in slot" pieces later on.

If you place too much emphasis on gear stats, you inevitably wind up in a situation where people get turned down for content because they don't have the required gear, where ideally the criteria should be whether or not they are appropriately geared.

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This is true but isn't that just the nature of the beast ?

Personally I play MMO's to strive to get the next best gear, I don't see any reason to kill a boss more than once if it has nothing of value to offer.

I think they mention that in 2.0 they plan to have hard mode content as well as regular so there should be room for both the elitist and casual to play side by side. (I would probably fall somewhere in the middle)

When Ifrit came out people were turned away for not having Sentinel or not being a Lancer, players will always find the path of least resistance.

I would rather be turned away for not having good enough gear than not having 1 silly little skill, not to mention if the game had gear with suitable fire resistance we wouldn't really need sentinel.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

This is true but isn't that just the nature of the beast ?

Personally I play MMO's to strive to get the next best gear, I don't see any reason to kill a boss more than once if it has nothing of value to offer.

I think they mention that in 2.0 they plan to have hard mode content as well as regular so there should be room for both the elitist and casual to play side by side. (I would probably fall somewhere in the middle)

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It is the nature of the beast. I love to collect gear just as much as the next person. I'm running out of inventory slots on myself and both retainers just because I like to collect my gear. I know that with the armor sets for the jobs we're going to have a lot of people looking alike etc.. I just hope that SE takes a slightly different route than other games have in recent years.

Maybe it isn't the fact that a majority of the stats are on the gear itself, perhaps it's the rather large jump in stats from tier to tier that makes older gear useless too quickly.

Unfortunately I don't have a solution, I'm just able to identify what I feel the problem with gear based progression is. Armor set 1 -> Armor set 2 -> Armor set 3... I can get that kind of progression in so many MMOs today that I'd probably make myself sick typing them all out. FFXIV launched with essentially 100% crafted gear, and any gear you happened to get as a reward was able to be crafted as well.. I'd really like them to stick to that ideal as much as possible.

Find a way to reward players for completing difficult content that doesn't involve pigeon holing them into certain gear sets.

Look at what GW2 is doing... The armor that drops from higher level encounters is cosmetic only. Maybe SE could take that kind of route. Rather than getting gear with amazing stats from boss encounters, you get skins/appearance mods for gear you currently have to make you look more unique.

They at least need to pull back the curtain on the step increases on stats.

Right now we have base stats sitting in the mid to high 200's. How does adding +20 str relate to the 270 I already have?

Through player testing it seems that breaking 280 in certain classes stats you see a increase in damage (auto attack) but adding more from 281-300+ you see no increase. SE needs to be more transparent on these "caps".

Now we just need someone to translate this and post in on the JP side so the devs might answer it. Otherwise you can just calk this one up to being swept under the rug like the rest of our burning questions from non-JP community.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Now we just need someone to translate this and post in on the JP side so the devs might answer it. Otherwise you can just calk this one up to being swept under the rug like the rest of our burning questions from non-JP community.

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This how I feel too :(

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

Unfortunately I don't have a solution, I'm just able to identify what I feel the problem with gear based progression is. Armor set 1 -> Armor set 2 -> Armor set 3... I can get that kind of progression in so many MMOs today that I'd probably make myself sick typing them all out. FFXIV launched with essentially 100% crafted gear, and any gear you happened to get as a reward was able to be crafted as well.. I'd really like them to stick to that ideal as much as possible.

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the problem is gear doesn't have to be that way. take darkhold/ifrit/moogle drops. if darkhold had stats based on attack power, ifrit had crit, and moogle had something like bonus lightning damage then each of those pieces of gear would have their own usages. all 3 sets of gear would be viable, but with the way gear is introduced now darkhold and moogle weapons are completely worthless and the only weapons people use are ifrit.

they could still have around the same base stats on the different types of gear they introduce per level range, but they could add additional stats that vary depending on the gear to have situational gear sets.

So whats the happy compromise for everyone?

The difference between the "best" gear and "decent" gear be small?
But "Decent" gear and "naked" should be worlds apart?

I would settle for that.

Although it bugs me no end when I see people wearing gear too low for their level (or high for that matter lol)

I'd like there to be a big enough gap in performance so people were encouraged to wear the correct gear.

I guess the main issue here is the base stats really. They need to be lowered in order for the gear to be meaningful. I mean, being able to defeat Ifrit naked is a joke really and just comes to show how gear is useless.

So can you really blame people for wearing bad gear in xp party? No.

I guess SE will really just drop the 2.0 bomb on this and till us to forget it till then... but really, we are paying customers now, you'd think they'll treat us better.