Please Remove Tomestones currency

Helluuuuu! I do not like being gated on gearing my stuff.

Not gonna happen, they need to limit our progress somehow in order to prevent people from just gearing everything within a week and then either being done with the game for the patch (and therefor: Not paying anymore, losing them money) or complaining that there is nothing to do.

This limitation isnt meant to be "meaningful" or "fun" to you but to both protect yourself and the company from you burning through content.

Besides... there are ways to gear up your jobs besides tomestones - you can have all of your jobs at an ilvl of 380 within half an hour if you buy the gear of the marketboard.
Not to mention raid-gear from both NM and Savage.
Even if you'd happen to raid on all jobs and need good gear for all of them: 380 is "enough" to clear those raids, given you're really, really good.
And if you dont raid, 380 gear is more than enough to do anything in the game comfortably.

...if you happen to only want an ilvl of 400 (or rather 390...) for the sake of it... the system is pretty much working for you.
Gear is the only progression we have at endgame; its gonna stay limited, to allow for everyone to stay "on level" (instead of having some people grind it out day 1, leaving those who cant behind in the dust); keeps you subscribed (sorry, after all SE is a buisness and "only" after your money); prevents people from burning through content on day one and not having anything to do afterwards (good for both the players and SE, actually).

...you probably wont like any of these reasons, but I doubt that tomestones or another form of weekly currency are going anywhere - they're needed to put a certain hold on your progression after all.

And you CAN do the grind as many times as you want - by creating alts...

Personally I kinda like the weekly cap - it gives me a sense of "Okay, I'm done with this for the week" and I realise that it sounds weird talking about a game that you enjoy with words like "I'm done with this for the week", but it gives me a certain sense of having "achieved" something (on a very, very low bar, of course - not a real achievment, more this feeling of being done with something and being able to look at your workproduct, thinking "I did a good job on this!"). I wouldnt want an open end grind, thats even more boring and something you tend to put off more - being limited it feels more meanigful to actually earn those tomestones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ssmiley_Bjakkzz

I do not like being gated on gearing my stuff. This is not fun or meaningful in an obvious way... It does not create more interesting gameplay through limitations and is incredibly frustrating.

levels are fun to do with DPS while I wait for dungeon queues!
gearing are the most fun way to progress level build for me!

It feel REALLY bad to have my play experience cut short because of the currency reset system. Please just let me do the grind as many times as I want!

---

It is meaningful for SE because the longer you take to gear up the better for them. Thats the whole reason that all things, that allow gear progression, are capped.

Next week I get my last item from Alphascape to reach i380 with MCH/BRD, and with that I'll be i380+ with every class. First time ever I gear all my jobs to the current ilvl, with Genesis, Alphascape and Rakshasa sets. There's more than one way to gear yourself, as mentioned before. Instead of removing tomestones completely, I would up the weekly cap to at least 500. It keeps the player base doing at least something~

It's either limited currency or hellish rng. You pick. The player base seems pretty averse to rng tho.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It's either limited currency or hellish rng. You pick. The player base seems pretty averse to rng tho.

---

This sums it up. Look at wow, they took away limited currency, implimented tons of rng and the game suffered for it. Tons of wow players have asked for years to have the currency system restored in wow. Its a better system, as it allows you to progress towards something at a steady pace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ssmiley_Bjakkzz

It feel REALLY bad to have my play experience cut short because of the currency reset system. Please just let me do the grind as many times as I want!

---

You can gear as many classes as you want with the unlocked tomestones and unlocked tokens from old 8- and 24-man raids. You will get ilvl 370 gear this way, wich is enough for every content in the game, except current savage raid.

In odd numbered patches you can gear up through unlocked 8-man story raid, wich will push your ilvl high enough for the new ex-primal and 24-man raid.

Really, the only content this lockout gates is savage (and ultimate) raids.

So I am not sure if your play experience really is "cut short".

If you really want higher gear RIGHT NOW, get some crafted stuff. The gear treadmill's not going anywhere any time soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ssmiley_Bjakkzz

I do not like being gated on gearing my stuff. This is not fun or meaningful in an obvious way... It does not create more interesting gameplay through limitations and is incredibly frustrating.

It feel REALLY bad to have my play experience cut short because of the currency reset system. Please just let me do the grind as many times as I want!

---

It's not supposed to be fun. It's supposed to lengthen the time gear and content is relevant, while also preventing a severe ilvl imbalance between people who have loads of free time and those who do not.

Not saying I agree or disagree with op, just explaining that the intention isn't for fun. It's for control.

There's no real gear progression in this game. Currency or not, so you should probably pass this aspect or you'll get disappointed.

The underlying issue here is that players grind then quit without these limitations in the first place. If more human beings were less pathetic, they wouldn't need to resort to annoying limitations to hold onto players who apparently enjoy quitting the game they "like" as soon as they "finish" it.

The "I don't like this or that so it must be removed from the game" meme is evergreen. Will add "tomestones" to the list of subjects.

never!! tomestones are awesome, I don't want crazy RNG drop like in wow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Veliena

This sums it up. Look at wow, they took away limited currency, implimented tons of rng and the game suffered for it. Tons of wow players have asked for years to have the currency system restored in wow. Its a better system, as it allows you to progress towards something at a steady pace.

---

Combine both. Ffxiv has a really good loot structure in place that exists within ex primal. Even though it's quite heavy on RNG it still guarantees players can progress at a present minimum pace.. The RNG offers them the chance to speed that progress up. But at the same time it can never fall below that preset speed...

So while you.might in theory win get 11 weapons from 10 primal wins. You are guaranteed a minimum of 1 for every 10 wins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

It's not supposed to be fun. It's supposed to lengthen the time gear and content is relevant, while also preventing a severe ilvl imbalance between people who have loads of free time and those who do not.

---

I would argue against this. What the lockouts do is actually shorten the time gear is relevant or current.

If it takes you 11 or 12 weeks to complete a set of time gear then your already halfway through a patch cycle and every piece you pick up has a shorter life span than the last. The bit you pick up in week one might last 6 months. The bit you pick up in week 12 might last 3.

If you removed the lockouts then it could in theory all last 6 months which would mean gear lasts longer..

As for burn out that's nothing new. Hell many players are done with a patch on its first day. This game severely lacks content. That's why players get burnt out. Because there's only ever 1 maybe 2 things to do...

4.5 lands people will probably spend most there time running the same 24 man raid 20 times a week hoping to get a weekly drop.. same raid over and over and over and over. Because there's nothing else to do... That's why they get burnt out.

Yes, let's remove it because you say so. Tomestones is the best thing they could do. What you prefer? Roll on everything and get all the time 7 u 9? It was like 12 weeks since new Raid release, you know how many loot I got from chest in this 12 week? 3, and 2 are form a different job than my main. It is thanks to tomestones n other tokens I have gear.

I rather have all currencies in the world if they will give me gear at 100% chance and not fight with RNG.

There's always going to be an end game token to collect and trade for gear. Literally every MMO (with few exceptions) do this and generally there's a cap. Not going to get around it, sadly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malzian

There's always going to be an end game token to collect and trade for gear. Literally every MMO (with few exceptions) do this and generally there's a cap. Not going to get around it, sadly.

---

"Everyone is doing it" isn't really a strong defense. Having more people make a mistake doesn't make it any less of a mistake. OK, software companies want to make money and avoid risk so doing whatever has worked before when possible over innovating is to be expected. Even then, I think it's worth pointing out what is flawed with the current system and trying to push them to do better. I hate that many things in MMO's boil down to carrot on a stick. Games should be designed to be fun, and playing them should be the reward in my mind. If SE needs to include tomestones to keep people playing, there is room for significant improvement in their game's structure. Give us more content and keep us interested. Yes, it will be harder and take effort on their part (and hopefully the community's part as well, how to do this should be a back and forth discussion) but I feel that it would be worth it. It would improve the player experience and make it harder for competitors to usurp FF14 in the long run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PyurBlue

"Everyone is doing it" isn't really a strong defense. Having more people make a mistake doesn't make it any less of a mistake. OK, software companies want to make money and avoid risk so doing whatever has worked before when possible over innovating is to be expected. Even then, I think it's worth pointing out what is flawed with the current system and trying to push them to do better. I hate that many things in MMO's boil down to carrot on a stick. Games should be designed to be fun, and playing them should be the reward in my mind. If SE needs to include tomestones to keep people playing, there is room for significant improvement in their game's structure. Give us more content and keep us interested. Yes, it will be harder and take effort on their part (and hopefully the community's part as well, how to do this should be a back and forth discussion) but I feel that it would be worth it. It would improve the player experience and make it harder for competitors to usurp FF14 in the long run.

---

"Give us more content" simply isnt possible, no matter how much effort they put into this - or at least isnt not possible to give us enough content to keep us busy the whole time between patch cycles.
I dont know how long it takes them to develop a dungeon, but I can tell you how long it takes a group of 4 people to clear said dungeon (15-30 minutes, usually) and I'm pretty damn sure that it takes them longer to design that...

So, they need to give us reasons to repeat the content - for once, because they cant produce enough content for us to have a new dungeon ever evening and secondly because people play at different speeds and start the game at different points and "veterans" still need a reason to go back into "old" dungeons again, so new people can clear them.

How often would you play a dungeon or a trial "for fun"? Three times? Four times, maybe? Probably a fifth after not seeing that content for a year?
"Fun" is the reward when you play the dungeon for the first time, but since they cant give you a new dungeon to play for the first time every day and there are people who still need that first time experience, you still need some sort of reward.
That can be RNG-stuff (music, mounts, minions, glamour...) but that can get annoying and demotivating fast, because you do your run, get nothing and feel like you've wasted your time (because the dungeon just isnt new, exciting, intresting and much fun anymore on your 35th run).
Or they give you a guranteed reward, like tomestones, to make sure that you'll get something out of the run for sure. By making them limited weekly, they also add a certain value to them - you cant just go farm them "whenever".

There is no way they can keep us busy all the time without sending us back into old content, but they need to give us a reason to do so. Even the most fun dungeon isnt much fun on your 10th run anymore - but they need you to run it way more than that, for the sake of new people for example.

And if you really dont want to run those dungeons for anything but fun: you can ignore the tomestones alltogether and use the other gear-options the game gives you.

They cant possibly put enough money and/or effort into this game to keep us busy and "intrested" all the time without recycling content and sending us back to repeat the dungeons.
If you however think thats possible... I'd like to hear your suggestions - only throwing money at it, isnt a valid one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vidu

"Give us more content" simply isnt possible, no matter how much effort they put into this - or at least isnt not possible to give us enough content to keep us busy the whole time between patch cycles.
I dont know how long it takes them to develop a dungeon, but I can tell you how long it takes a group of 4 people to clear said dungeon (15-30 minutes, usually) and I'm pretty damn sure that it takes them longer to design that...

---

Yet they already have content generators that are faster than groups running dungeons, namely PoTD and HoH. They could perhaps focus on improving these dungeon generators to produce more diverse content. It's unlikely that these random generators will match the work of skilled developers fine tuning individual dungeons by hand, but I see a lot of potential for a good compromise.

Quote:

---

So, they need to give us reasons to repeat the content - for once, because they cant produce enough content for us to have a new dungeon ever evening and secondly because people play at different speeds and start the game at different points and "veterans" still need a reason to go back into "old" dungeons again, so new people can clear them.

---

I'm not arguing against repeating content. Ultimately you're going to have to go back and do something you've done before. This shouldn't be a bad thing, players should be looking forward to at least some of it. I enjoy some dungeons more than others, although level sync can take away some of the fun. Changing it to stat sync instead would improve the experience in my opinion. Making existing older content more relevant is additional content as far as I'm concerned. I hope that staying relevant means more than "gives tomestones" though. I'd like them to be relevant relative to my class level as well.

The difficulties that you're pointing out are completely valid, but I don't think they're insurmountable. The devs have some reasoning behind their decisions, but is it the system the best that it can be? I don't think so.

Quote:

---

How often would you play a dungeon or a trial "for fun"? Three times? Four times, maybe? Probably a fifth after not seeing that content for a year?
"Fun" is the reward when you play the dungeon for the first time, but since they cant give you a new dungeon to play for the first time every day and there are people who still need that first time experience, you still need some sort of reward.
That can be RNG-stuff (music, mounts, minions, glamour...) but that can get annoying and demotivating fast, because you do your run, get nothing and feel like you've wasted your time (because the dungeon just isnt new, exciting, intresting and much fun anymore on your 35th run).

---

There are lot of things to consider in answering this question. If there is only one fun dungeon then you can burn it out rather quickly. If on the other hand there are many choices, that will prevent things from feeling stale for much longer. You also have to consider dungeon design, which is totally static right now, but doesn't have to be. A dungeon could be designed so that after 35 runs you've had 35 different experiences. Personally, I find a good bit of replayability in just switching classes. This is especially true if I'm not great at a given class as I'll go back and rerun the content to optimize. Increasing difficulty, or providing an option for increased difficulty, would put more pressure on me to optimize and give me more reason to rerun the content.

Quote:

---

Or they give you a guranteed reward, like tomestones, to make sure that you'll get something out of the run for sure. By making them limited weekly, they also add a certain value to them - you cant just go farm them "whenever".

---

Tomestones are infinitely better than random drops, you won't see me argue otherwise. The weekly cap doesn't add value though, it just makes it annoying slow to gear up. That reduces the number of options I have when it comes to playing high level content.

Quote:

---

There is no way they can keep us busy all the time without sending us back into old content, but they need to give us a reason to do so. Even the most fun dungeon isnt much fun on your 10th run anymore - but they need you to run it way more than that, for the sake of new people for example.

---

Well again, if there was only one piece of content to run, you would hit the 10 "limit" quickly. If there were say 10 dungeons, you'd have 100 dungeon runs before you burnt out.

Quote:

---

And if you really dont want to run those dungeons for anything but fun: you can ignore the tomestones alltogether and use the other gear-options the game gives you.

---

Well the thing is, the game is designed around rewarding you with little tidbits at a time. I want a shift in focus where there is more content delivered that is about the experience than what you get at the end. FF14 is what is at the end of the day, even if I got what I wanted, it would be the same game. SE can't turn it into something completely different because of the costs involved and also the risk of alienating the people that are comfortable with what exists now. I'm not trying to turn FF14 into a different game, just trying to nudge it in a direction that I'd prefer.

Quote:

---

They cant possibly put enough money and/or effort into this game to keep us busy and "intrested" all the time without recycling content and sending us back to repeat the dungeons.
If you however think thats possible... I'd like to hear your suggestions - only throwing money at it, isnt a valid one.

---

If they're going to keep to the current formula you're probably right. There are other ways for them to approach the problem though. The automated dungeon generation that I mentioned above seems like it would be within their reach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PyurBlue

"Everyone is doing it" isn't really a strong defense. Having more people make a mistake doesn't make it any less of a mistake. OK, software companies want to make money and avoid risk so doing whatever has worked before when possible over innovating is to be expected. Even then, I think it's worth pointing out what is flawed with the current system and trying to push them to do better. I hate that many things in MMO's boil down to carrot on a stick. Games should be designed to be fun, and playing them should be the reward in my mind. If SE needs to include tomestones to keep people playing, there is room for significant improvement in their game's structure. Give us more content and keep us interested. Yes, it will be harder and take effort on their part (and hopefully the community's part as well, how to do this should be a back and forth discussion) but I feel that it would be worth it. It would improve the player experience and make it harder for competitors to usurp FF14 in the long run.

---

Gates are a necessary evil, and that *is* the reason just about every MMORPG out there has them. XIV's gates are actually pretty sparse, hence people complaining about being starved for content. Remove tomestones and that problem just gets worse.

Even if patches somehow contained double or triple the amount of content, removing the tomestone gate and weekly lockouts would result in this being blitzed early and having a sizable portion of the community left with no real incentive to do any of it. You'd be in the same position of having players not logging in until the next patch, but much sooner than we currently experience.

So gates are not a "mistake" that's being made in the genre; it's vital to keep players active. You can despise it as a cheap gimmick to keep subs going, but you're not trying to fund future content. If it was truly that big a turnoff after all these years across a multitude of games, no developer would even think to have something like that in there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vidu

I dont know how long it takes them to develop a dungeon, but I can tell you how long it takes a group of 4 people to clear said dungeon (15-30 minutes, usually) and I'm pretty damn sure that it takes them longer to design that...

---

I attribute a big part of why content is burnt so fast to difficulty. Or rather the lack of any semblance of challenge.

It's the overall ease of content that means it gets consumed so fast. New patch lands you can have every piece of content in it cleared in a few hours. Most of it first time because there is no risk of failure. This is why a new patch doesn't even keep players busy for a single day.

You could then quite easily make content last longer just by increasing the difficulty. Now I'm not saying make it balls to the wall hard or anything like that but a definite step up from "lmaoroflstomp" where you can win without even knowing whats going on... hell theres dungeon bosses i still dont know the mechanics too even after running them 100 times. It just doesn't matter though because you can't possibly lose against the boss anyway.

That's why content is consumed so fast.

Now ultimately you can't really ramp up the difficulty without changing the reward structure because if you do you'll just end up with people not bothering like what happens with savage raids. Where people just don't bother with the content because the rewards just aren't worth it. And the challenge isn't worth it either because it'll be easy moded within months...

Reward out has to be worth effort put in. And ultimately the difficulty is so low because all the rewards are throw away trash...

It's not impossible to design content that lasts longer than a couple of hours and keeps players busy. And it wouldn't cost infinite amounts of moneys.. Just a change in design philosophy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PyurBlue

You also have to consider dungeon design, which is totally static right now, but doesn't have to be. A dungeon could be designed so that after 35 runs you've had 35 different experiences.

---

The only way to do this would be to keep those dungeons out of the Duty finder or scrap the duty finder entirely..

I agree that big open dungeons with lots of choices of routes to take and bosses to fight and stuff would make dungeons much more fun than they presently are. but they wouldn't work in the duty finder.

All you need to do is look at POTD or HOH matched parties and you can already see the issues the duty finder causes there.
1 player in the group has no interest in chests just wants to unlock the portals and go go go
another player in the group wants to farm blue chests for aetherpool points
third player in the group wants to explore every single room looking for accursed horde sacks.
and who the hell knows what the 4th player wants to do....
and yet all of these players think the whole group should catar to them. that first guy will be standing on the portal saying come on come on come on. that second guy will have completely ignored that room full of mobs because there was no silver chest in it. but the third guy went in and pulled some mobs because he wants the horde sack at the back..

If you had dungeons that featured choices of routes and bosses and all that stuff it just wouldn't work in duty finder for the same reasons. you'd have one player that wants to go after Boss A because it has a drop he's after. another player though wants to go a different route towards boss B for a different loot drop. another player just wants to sprint through whichever route is the easiest / fastest.... and again everyone would expectthe entire party togo the way they wanted too...

if you scrapped the duty finder though this kind of dungeon content could work really well as you'd typically build a group of players who wanted to make the same choices and thus it would work much smoother. but then you'd have people complain they cant do the content without a fixed group. like how they complain they cant do hoh31+ in duty finder...

and thats basically why dungeon design is a s static as it is. because of duty finder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

The underlying issue here is that players grind then quit without these limitations in the first place. If more human beings were less pathetic, they wouldn't need to resort to annoying limitations to hold onto players who apparently enjoy quitting the game they "like" as soon as they "finish" it.

---

That's very much a matter of mindset. Coming from single player games myself, it still seems strange to be expected to keep paying and paying for a game forever. Anything else - I reach the end, I do finish it, and that's it. I've paid the same amount whether I play it over again, or come back to it in a few months, or never touch it again. It could be the best game I've ever played but I don't need to keep paying for it (or playing it non-stop) to show that I like it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

The underlying issue here is that players grind then quit without these limitations in the first place. If more human beings were less pathetic, they wouldn't need to resort to annoying limitations to hold onto players who apparently enjoy quitting the game they "like" as soon as they "finish" it.

---

ITT it's "pathetic" to lose interest in repeating the same stale activities endlessly with no tangible benefit. There more you know, I suppose.

Without lockouts or weekly limits, I could easily obtain i400 within days. Please, do explain how the game is supposed to maintain my interest for seven months when virtually everything was just invalided within seconds. This nonsense is the equivalent of claiming you dislike The Last of Us because I stopped playing it after finishing the story in a week. We'll ignore there is nothing left for the game to offer except replaying it on a harder difficulty—which only offers so much replay value. Now I may play it again down the road, but not immediately. MMOs do not have this luxury since they charge a monthly sub. They have to keep players hooked somehow, TLoU doesn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Yet they already have content generators that are faster than groups running dungeons, namely PoTD and HoH. They could perhaps focus on improving these dungeon generators to produce more diverse content. It's unlikely that these random generators will match the work of skilled developers fine tuning individual dungeons by hand, but I see a lot of potential for a good compromise.

---

Deep Dungeon doesn't generate new dungeons. It has a set number of floors with significantly less variance in aesthetic to compensate. This is starkly different from dungeon design. What you're essentially asking for is a No Man's Sky equivalent at an even larger scale than they promised. The cost of such an undertaking would be insane, especially if they're intended to be unique. Furthermore, you cannot generate boss fights in this matter. And substantially amount of time is placed on their development. You aren't going to see a Kefka, Omega, Ozma or Bahamut through automatically generated content. Regardless, all this completely ignores generated content will never actually be unique. There is only so many ways something can be implemented before it becomes stale. 35 unique experience whilst running the same dungeon is impossible. No game, regardless of budget or technology can produce the experience you're demanding.

Look at Genesis more as a slot filler for raid pieces that refuse to drop, rather than a main gearing source. It also doubles as a bonus for casual players, that they eventually get to enjoy better gear even if they don't raid above Normal.

If they removed the cap on Genesis, they'd likely have to drop it to 380. Then the casual player, combining it with Alpha, is done in 2 weeks and has nothing to look forward to at all.

The only thing I'd want to look at is raid/dungeon gearing and difficulty. Dungeons are completely irrelevant for gear. Then you have a ton of faceroll sources of 380, then a massive step up in difficulty with Savage/Ultimate with no in-between. Endgame dungeons and an in-between difficulty for raids and even 24 man would be great. Non-savage players would like to have some challenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Non-savage players would like to have some challenge.

---

Its called Primal (Extreme).

Another in-between seems unlikely, normal raid exist because people wanted an in-between dungeon and savage, if another step is added people will still want another one between the two and so on.

Savage aren't that hard anyway so pull out a dungeon harder than raid but easier than savage just good luck with that.

Raid isn't about raiding anymore, they basicaly are easy primal fight already because people aren't good enought to do proper raiding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nariel

Savage aren't that hard anyway so pull out a dungeon harder than raid but easier than savage just good luck with that.

---

For someone who doesn't Savage raid at all, that's quite a declaration you're making with little to no experience on the subject.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nariel

Its called Primal (Extreme).

Another in-between seems unlikely, normal raid exist because people wanted an in-between dungeon and savage, if another step is added people will still want another one between the two and so on.

Savage aren't that hard anyway so pull out a dungeon harder than raid but easier than savage just good luck with that.

Raid isn't about raiding anymore, they basicaly are primal fight already because people aren't good enought to do proper raiding.

---

Which have become steadily easier themselves.

Regardless, people asking for harder content when casual content that requires their brain be turned on. I like running dungeons, however my interest wanes when the outgoing damage is so pathetically low, I've since started pulling without tank stance and had little issues. Normal mode are similarly flawed. Alphascape does a better job than its predecessors at least, though not by much. A big contributor to the woefully poorly skilled playerbase this game bolsters, is the complete absence of a proper difficulty curve. Almost everything is made to be incredibly easy, which, in turn, means content lacks any degree of longevity. There's a reason Mythic+ has been exceptionally popular in WoW. It breathed life into otherwise boring content for anyone who could do more than press 123.

Savage isn't hard, hmm? While I agree, at least I can boast clears. How many times have you cleared it?

I've hated the tome stone cap for a while. I log in, cap my tomes for the week, and then have no need to log in till the next week. Unless I'm leveling something like a crafter or something. I understand why it's there. It's to keep us subbed those 3 - 4 months till the next major expansion hits. But should we really be penalized because SE can't produce enough content to keep us going? If things were unlocked would the only answer be more RNG like in Pyros? Where it's random if you get a bunny from a bunny fate, random what chest you'll get, random what logograms you will get, and then random what those logograms turn into. If the choice is being capped on what I can do or randomness like rerolling Relic Weapon stats... I think I'd prefer to be capped. At least them I can be SURE I'm getting the thing I need. This isn't Diablo. And personally after a while I get tired of doing things in that game just for a random chance that I'll find ONE piece of gear with ONE stat better than what I have. In order for there to not be a cap, we would need more endgame content to do each week besides EX Primals, 8 Man Raids, and 24 Man Raids. And even those are only every other patch... except for the primals fights. I don't consider Eureka end game as it's not really a form of progression. More like catch up. Tho I guess by those terms 24 man raids are just catch up to and not endgame either. So then for endgame you have EX Primals, 8 Man Savage Raids, and the Ultimate Fights.

TLDR: Endgame raiders need something more to do when they are not raiding just like casuals need more to do when they aren't capping tomes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

For someone who doesn't Savage raid at all, that's quite a declaration you're making with little to no experience on the subject.

---

Me and my freinds grew bored of them before the last one every time, raiding with random isn't attractive for me and the fact they get done in PF without any need of communication outside of assigned position isn't what I call overwhelmingly difficult fight, plus the game doesn't revolve around what I do/can do or not, easy is easy. People are beating Dark souls blind folded, doesn't mean the game is easy and some other can't go trough a pokemon game but its still easy games.

You don't need to become an astronaut or a brain surgeon to know its not easy at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nariel

Grew bored of them before the last one every time and the fact they get done in PF without any need of communication outside of assigned position isn't what I call overwhelmingly difficult fight

---

If you grew bored of something, that doesn't mean the difficulty was too easy, it means that you don't find challenging content fun. It's true that you can get Savage content cleared with a whole bunch of randoms through PF (but not always without battle scars), but usually that means you have to already have those fights on farm and are just looking for quick clears when your static members aren't available. I don't know what Savage content you've been playing, but you still need communication to get things done because you simply can't trust people to follow the most basic of directions, especially in PF, and sometimes bad things happen that need to be improvised on the fly.

I can't imagine running things through PF for Chaos when people don't know what longitude and latitude are. Hell, people can't get Starboard and Larboard still.

Savage requires coordination and communication still no matter what you're doing, basic things that people can't even do in dungeons half of the time in this game already. And when I asked for competency and actual effort in dungeons, I get "Omg, you don't pay my sub!" nonsense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

If you grew bored of something, that doesn't mean the difficulty was too easy, it means that you don't find challenging content fun. It's true that you can get Savage content cleared with a whole bunch of randoms through PF (but not always without battle scars), but usually that means you have to already have those fights on farm and are just looking for quick clears when your static members aren't available. I don't know what Savage content you've been playing, but you still need communication to get things done because you simply can't trust people to follow the most basic of directions, especially in PF, and sometimes bad things happen that need to be improvised on the fly.

I can't imagine running things through PF for Chaos when people don't know what longitude and latitude are. Hell, people can't get Starboard and Larboard still.

Savage requires coordination and communication still no matter what you're doing, basic things that people can't even do in dungeons half of the time in this game already. And when I asked for competency and actual effort in dungeons, I get "Omg, you don't pay my sub!" nonsense.

---

Because people are bad doesn't mean its hard.

And yeah my boreness isn't related to difficulty at all its more about seeing the same boss but harder isn't my kind of content, they sure not are easy, but not as hard as people claim it is.

All I say is it will be difficult for the devs to come with a new easier than savage but still harder than normal raid/extreme without people wanting a easier version of it or a harder one anyway.

The middleground could be the diadem/eureka slot, an optional activity provinding a fair challenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ssmiley_Bjakkzz

I do not like being gated on gearing my stuff. This is not fun or meaningful in an obvious way... It does not create more interesting gameplay through limitations and is incredibly frustrating.

levels are fun to do with DPS while I wait for dungeon queues!
gearing are the most fun way to progress level build for me!

It feel REALLY bad to have my play experience cut short because of the currency reset system. Please just let me do the grind as many times as I want!

---

*looks at what WoW is doing with BFA*

Nope, do not want that. Hard pass. While I'd like to see more options in game for gear, having tomestones and other currencies as guaranteed rewards to build up is useful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aesteval

*looks at what WoW is doing with BFA*

Nope, do not want that. Hard pass. While I'd like to see more options in game for gear, having tomestones and other currencies as guaranteed rewards to build up is useful.

---

I am definitely passing for that reason too. Its one of the reason I stopped playing that game. I don't want it here too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aesteval

*looks at what WoW is doing with BFA*

Nope, do not want that. Hard pass. While I'd like to see more options in game for gear, having tomestones and other currencies as guaranteed rewards to build up is useful.

---

I don't play WoW. What are they doing with BFA?

Ok sure, we'll take out tomestones. Instead, you'll have to raid savage and beat the final floor for a chance at loot. Every time you beat the final boss (you have to beat 1,2, and 3, in that order, before you're allowed to take on 4), there's a 0.001% chance of a chest dropping. In this chest, there's a 0.001% chance it'll be gear (99.999% chance it'll just be fireworks), with a 0.001% chance it'll be gear usable by the job anyone in your group is playing as.

If you get rid of tomestones, that's what we'll get instead. Maybe not to that extreme, but knowing SE it won't be far off. Brutal RNG upon brutal RNG upon brutal RNG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burningskull

I don't play WoW. What are they doing with BFA?

---

Basically, they have layers upon layers of RNG to keep people running content. High level gear can also drop from casual content like dungeons and etc, which has many raiders complaining since the argument becomes "what's the point of raiding when any joker can run a dungeon and get the best gear?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burningskull

I don't play WoW. What are they doing with BFA?

---

RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG for loot. Very little to no control to compensate for the shortcomings of what RNG determines you're not getting. As much as the repeating tomestone system personally irritates me, at least it gives some measure of control over gear upgrades: you have an idea of when you'll get X upgrade, BFA is running along the lines of you don't know if you'll get X and even if you do get X it may not even be an upgrade.

Hmm that sounds like how you get logos actions....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burningskull

Hmm that sounds like how you get logos actions....

---

But that's one small part of 1 area. not the only way to get better gear

Ow. If Blizzard's terrible writing hadn't driven me out already, that would've killed WoW for me.