Hi, first time ever post on any FFXIV forum. I have to say i'm not a long time final fantasy player, being FFXIV is my first title, but when i first heard of BlueMage about a year ago i knew this was the one class i wanted to play above all others. it goes without saying i am that irritated that this job is "Solo-content" and "limited".
SquareEnix, i love that you are trying your Hardest to give us new content and keep your MMO alive but the Job system is not and wasn't broken or breaking so i'm baffled. Players may want to do some activities on there own BUT this is an MMO with the premise of online meaning playing with other people. Limiting this and potentially limiting other Jobs in future will ruin what it means to play in an MMO. Solo content in areas is ok but FFXIV has always been about coming together as a player base.
I will play BlueMage cause i will never not play the content provided but i will NEVER be ok with this and i hope that no one gives you reason to believe this is ok. If you aren't going to make a job able to do all content then it should not exist till you are ready to implement it in a way that will work within FFXIV.
i STRONGLY hope you rework BlueMage to be apart of FFXIV job system instead of turning jobs into content and drop this notion of "Limited job".
this is an MMO SquareEnix
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11-23-2018, 10:48 AMHayshadethis is an MMO SquareEnix
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11-23-2018, 10:57 AMKitfox
I hope SE reinvents Blue Mage the same it has done with many other jobs: DRK, RDM, SMN, BRD etc. Don't be stuck in the traditions and try to implement concepts that don't fit into MMOs or the rest of the game content (mostly group oriented). I'm going to be so disappointed if Limited Jobs become a thing and Beastmaster gets shoved into some random minion mini-game. I'd love to have a FFX-2 style pet fighter job to actually raid and fight primals with, though the pet system needs an overall overhaul before that (pets are too unresponsive at the moment).
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11-23-2018, 12:54 PMDarkpaw
And the point of this is what? It’s an mmo so it has to follow the footprints of every mmo before it? No room for innovation or experimentation? I get the backlash on blue mage, I don’t agree with the condemnation of it before we’ve even tried it but I understand why people are apprehensive and worried.
Does every piece of content in an mmo have to be co-op or pvp and no room for any solo content? So what about the people who try to solo old content through the unsync feature? Solo’ing PotD and HoH? Are they just wasting their time and should they be forced off a game they enjoy because they want some solo content?
We may not really like the concept, we may not agree with the design choices. But from a business perspective. This is a smart move if executed properly for the long term growth and continuation of this game. Because it opens up this game to a much broader audience including traditional final fantasy fans who may want a more traditional final fantasy feel. This could bring some of them to the game to try this version of the blue mage.
We as a community asked for them to take chances and asked for them to be innovative and try new things. The second they do we rail against them as if they have personally slighted us. Urging them to change something we know little about and have no idea what the future holds makes no sense especially since we haven’t even given it a chance yet. For all we know this limited system could be a lot less limiting than we think and be something we enjoy. As a different kind of content that does break the mold. -
11-23-2018, 12:58 PMDarkpaw
As for the current battle system not being broken.. ask dark knights how they felt after warriors got buffed in 4.2.. go ask a machinist how they’ve felt this entire expansion as they’ve been forced to compete with casters because bard has completely pushed them out of the physical ranged meta.. or white mages after the astro buffs.. they have a hard time properly balancing the jobs we have now in a truly effective way.. something that a quick tour of the dps forum threads will show.. so yes let’s add another full meta class they have already admitted they were having trouble figuring out how to balance and see how the salt levels rise when blue mage upsets the delicate caster balance as it is now.
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11-23-2018, 01:09 PMCanadane
The game needs more mid-tier solo content. Not less.
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11-23-2018, 01:40 PMJkap_Goat
Blueage cannot fit into the Trinity system,they learn all type of monster spells including healing spells or tanking spells, and if it does learn lots of healing abilities and tanking abilities, there would be an outcry for nerfs ect.
I greatly have to disagree with you, this give an opportunity to socialize with other players who are blue mages, helping each other out in the world gathering spells and doing premade parties together to get certain spells from monsters in duegons and trials instead of queuing for a random roulette and having no one speak or say anything as you continue to just do the role your assigned to and finish the dungeons. but with BLU you have to coordinate with your fellow BLUs or other teammates. Especially what spells, Whose going to tank, hybrid ect. So I welcome blue with open arms and can't wait to help my fellow BLUs get spells and do premade parties together. -
11-23-2018, 02:18 PMFlatopiaIt's a shame Red mage can't fit into the trinity system either, as it is half a melee damage dealer, half a magic damage dealer, and half a healer. It's a shame that we would never see Red Mage for not fitting the traditional mold of the trinity system-Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
oh. -
11-23-2018, 02:25 PMJukebox12This is not just a MMORPG THIS IS ALSO A FINAL FANTASY TILTE. you have to have to realized that many people are not here for the MMO part but of the fantasy that comes with final fantasy games. didn't Yoshi p back in ARR period said he wish he could bring blue mage but he didn't know how to make it feel like a true blue mage back in the day. The reason why it's a limited job is maybe they couldn't balance it with in HOLY TRINITY (tank/healer/dps) or that it's limited right now due to it might unbalanced or that they think that Blue mage should be limited cause of it's history in the Final fantasy Titles and people might rage if it doesn't feel like a True blue mage that Red mage wasn't a true red mage (jack of all trades master of none).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayshade
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11-23-2018, 02:28 PMGr1mwolf
Does no one else recognize the irony that this is in the DPS forum? People have completely overtaken the DPS subforum with nothing but threads basically complaining that BLU is NOT DPS.
1) There's no reason to keep making new threads on the same subject.
2) They clearly don't belong in this subforum.
Nearly the entire first page of this subforum is currently filled with these threads. -
11-23-2018, 02:33 PMDualgunnerBLU uses magical dps gear, ergo it's probably gonna be classified as a dps no matter what. The complaints also aren't that it's not dps, they're that it's designed with endgame out of mind. Completely different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr1mwolf
You're right that there doesn't need to be so many threads about it. -
11-23-2018, 02:39 PMFlatopiaBlue mage is vastly different between games with only one similarity, they use enemy skills. The method of learning is often very different in between games and more often than not have a very small pool of mostly damaging skills. The only reason it's as it is now, is that the development team believes the 11 incarnation to be the only real one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukebox12
Knight typically does really powerful physical attacks
Dark Knight typically sacrificed HP to empower their attacks
Ninja typically can throw objects
Samurai typically has Gil Toss
Scholar typically has mastery over ancient magic and not fey
Black mage typically has a lot more debuff skills like bio
White mage typically does not have many ties to nature, and having earth aspected magic is usually Black magic's thing
Summoner typically has more than 4 summons, and are usually much bigger
Bard typically has more buffing and debuffing songs over means to do damage
Face it, literally every job had serious changes to it's core elements to fit, yet this time it's apparently too far fetched to design a job to fit?
Nonsense. -
11-23-2018, 03:07 PMJukebox12paladin is not a knight more like a white knight for one. doesn't drk sacrificed mp to deal dmg. ninja fuma, samurai dealing high dmg has gil toss. scholar does have ancient magic (cannot think of the name right now. black mage is a magic user that deals damage of the magical side. white mage is a healer. Summoner eh this is a hard one but I really don't think the multi summon at a time or having all the primals to summon is a balance issue. Doesn't Bard uses instruments to buff or debuff allies I think we have that. they took things that made jobs unique and made them different but the some sort of a way that there are the sameQuote:
Originally Posted by Flatopia
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11-23-2018, 03:19 PMDarkpaw
It's almost hilarious that we keep going to the Red mage isn't a true red mage argument, or samurai, or scholar, or black mage, or other jobs that got changed as a reason to justify the argument that BLU would work in the holy trinity system.. because most of these arguments stem from final fantasy xi which hey.. ima going to news flash this.. THIS IS NOT 11! if you want the 11 versions of those jobs.. great news for you. those servers are still live and it still seems to have quite the population.. You know what all of those other jobs have that blue mage wouldn't have if they implemented blue mage as a full meta job.. THEIR CORE IDENTITY!!!!! The core identity of blue mage isn't the fact they learn monster skills.. that could have been easily done inside the job quests.. no one would have said a thing.. or they could even have the learning system they have now and just have the horizontal prog be different then any other job but there would be set abilities that you had to go unlock.
So what is blue mage's core identity? What made them a unique class throughout the franchise and different from other casters if not for the learning of enemy skills.. oh wait I know.. THEY WERE AND ARE A GIMMICK CLASS!!!! the skills have always been hilariously broken and over powered if used right.. The other aspect of blue mage.. they were specialists at debuffing the enemy.. magic def down, def down, status ailments, etc etc... while simultaneously buffing the party, mighty guard, white wind, dragon force, auto life, im sure there are other examples.. we don't do status effects in this game like normal.. most bosses are immune to 90% of the status debuffs, they are a niche mechanic used so there's what.. a good chunk of blue's abilities.. Oh let's give blue mage an aoe heal.. wait no because there's no reason for a caster dps to have such a skill, lets give it party wide mitigation shields in the form of mighty guard, oh wait there's no reason a caster dps should have that either.. two iconic skills that completely unbalance the caster meta irrevocably in blu's favor, bye bye red mages for prog, bye bye summoners for meta (as if they aren't struggling enough to stay in meta) oh wait there's a black mage! nope.. because red mages would get buffed to keep up with blue mage and no one would want to take a class that's pure damage over that much utility. the forums would be on fire. if they did. take a second and really think logistically about what blu is and realize the dev team has a valid point in saying blu would be a nightmare to balance.. it would. -
11-23-2018, 03:32 PMFlatopiaFun fact: Paladin is called knight in nearly every final fantasy game, like 14. And is called PLD in abbreviation. Learn somethin' new.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukebox12
Also you admitted yourself all those jobs were changed for this game, they were fundamentally changed to adapt and it's great because they feel like the belong while maintaining the job fantasy!
Actually I base my knowledge off of every mainline Final Fantasy. I even agree that this isn't 11, and that assuming Blue Mage has to work like them is silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpaw
Also Blue mages have mostly been damage dealers with each hit usually having a status tied to them. Water with confusion, true with frog, fire with enrage, etc. They honestly aren't that niche as their actual crux is that their skills aren't just "damage" but rather damage with a small twist. Never anything gamebreaking to be honest. The most powerful skill they have is might guard, which is just a kinda big damage mitigation tool.
But still, ironically, this is simply telling that the biggest reason most people do not think BLU could fit, is because they lack proper imagination to what it could be. They think it has to be a perfect mold, ironically making themselves sound like it has to adhere to the 11 design more than anyone that supports the idea of BLU as a job.
The core identity is, and always will be simple.
It uses enemy skills, the range of effectiveness ranges from okay at best to situational at worse. The methods to obtain these range from learning the move via getting hit by it, to getting the last hit on specific enemies with different skills.
Please do not misunderstand what the job is about, and spread that misinformation. Go into any FFX discussion and say "the blue magic is hilariously broken and over powered if used right". They'd laugh you off.
TLDR; the only thing holding this from being a real job to most people is lack of creative thought, and misunderstanding of the job. Every job in 14 is not like their original counterpart, so even if the thoughts of what BLU was were correct- they are irrelevant minus the single core of the job. It uses enemy abilities. That's. it. -
11-23-2018, 03:38 PMKitfoxThat's like your opinion. I think learning and using enemy skills would be well enough for an identity. And this is why the arguments go in circles. Some people want "traditional jobs" that inherit the heritage from other games with no compromises. Others want "modern jobs" that fit better into FFXIV. Considering FFXIV is the game we're playing, I tend to be in the latter category. To be honest, I'd be happy if we had no jobs at all. Would be great if we just had the base classes with the unique FFXIV names (CNJ, GLA, MRD, etc) so the devs could develop them into any direction they like without the extra baggage and fan expectations from previous games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpaw
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11-23-2018, 03:48 PMDarkpawReally we're going to use a single game for the basis of your counter argument? FFX.. So blue magic existed in no other game but ten? The concept just sprang into being there? so we're completely disregarding 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9? Because in a majority of those games.. blue magic is when utilized properly.. completely and utterly overpowered and broken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatopia
As for the remark that this isn't a real job.. That's misinformation.. because it's not your idea of a real job that can go raiding, or pop into a roulette, or doing all content the second it's released. It's still a real job. It has a unique weapon, a unique battle system, unique content to show it off. it will be the fourth caster of this job.. whether it resides in the limited system or not this is a real job. It's just not the job YOU want it to be. Because the Dev Team we have been blessed with that revived this game from 1.0 into it's current iteration has a different vision that I'm willing to hold off passing judgement on to see how it functions and what the future holds for it. Before I take a dump all over their creativity and their vision. They've done right by us players so far and while they aren't above reproach and they do make mistakes. Each of us should have enough respect to give their vision a chance before we condemn it and burn it to the ground. Far as I see it and I feel.. this backlash and insults leveled towards this content and this job. this VERY REAL JOB is shameful and disrespectful to a team who has worked hard to do right by us players... the inability to even give their vision a chance.. to even experience it before we condemn it or give feedback on it.. is insulting each and every member of the dev team who worked on this content. -
11-23-2018, 03:52 PMKabooa
The dev team didn't revive this game by taking feedback from happy players.
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11-23-2018, 03:54 PMFlatopiaDid you read what I said?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpaw
I specifically said there are many different ways BLU works across all games featured. What I said was that if you take the idea of what blue mage is in XI or V into a X conversation they will immediately assume you don't know what you're talking about- because you wouldn't. This was to hammer in that each BLU is different by a pretty wide margin.
The rest is simply trying to shame people for expressing displeasure with what was presented to them, as is their right, and thus truly can't or shouldn't be addressed. It's better to let the community and developers tp speak their piece and actually come to a conclusion on how to appease everyone. -
11-23-2018, 03:59 PMDarkpaw
And they aren't going to fix anything that we haven't even touched yet. Because we don't know its broken. We KNOW nothing. this is the point.. this is the boy who cried wolf.. we can scream to the high heavens we hate this but the truth is you don't know whether or not you hate this because you don't have enough information or even any experience with the system or the job! I never said it was going to be great.. ive always said give it a chance but you people can't even trust this team that has done so right by all of us and hit high marks more often then they've missed before you damn their creativity... their attempt at giving us something we asked for.. even if it's not how we envisioned it.. they at least tried rather than just gave up and just told the community suck it up we aren't giving you this.. and are even willing to give us other jobs they said they would never implement.
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11-23-2018, 04:02 PMFlatopiaIf I were to take Summoner next expansion, and say "it's limited. You aren't allowed to use any matchmaking or any content past HW, but you can now summon many different summons at full size!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpaw
We'd all know it's a bad idea, we don't need to play that to know that's not a fun sounding idea. -
11-23-2018, 04:09 PMDarkpawThat's a false equivalence at best. You're talking about taking a full job we've had since 2.0 and putting it in this limited system.. this is not an equivalent exchange.. we have never had blue mage.. and were constantly told we would never get blue mage because Yoshi P wanted a traditional blue mage in this game and he felt it was what fans wanted as well and he gave us exactly that. So we got something we were never going to get before, in the way they have always told us they wanted to implement it, and we're getting it earlier than anyone thought we would, but oh no the sky is falling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatopia
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11-23-2018, 04:14 PMFlatopiaokay fine, then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpaw
Gunblade job.
It's only usable in garlemald and not allowed in instanced duties.
Good, yes? -
11-23-2018, 04:31 PMDarkpawNo, because Blue is allowed in instanced duties... it's not allowed in matchmaking duties and pvp and deep dungeon.. so lets look at this and I know this will be shocking, with some rationale thought and logic. Starting with what we know about BLU and it's role in the limited job system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatopia
1./ At implementation (4.5) BLU will be started at level 1 and capped at level 50.
2./ It's vertical prog will be based in the open world (lvl'ing) It's horizontal prog (abilities) will also be based there as well as in instanced duties and it is encouraged to work with other players to share information on ability locations.
3./It is currently locked out of duty roulettes, pvp, and deep dungeon. As well as current end game content.
4./ It will have it's level cap increased via patches as well as have new abilities.
Now I'm going to focus on number 3 which is the source of all of this. Why is it locked out of duty roulettes. Because it would be a nightmare to create a system atop everything else they are doing that could verify skills earned before allowing you to queue up for duties with match made parties. (I've made the argument a thousand times of how this job can and will be a nightmare to balance. It's just fact. Whether you like it or not.) It's locked out of PvP which is also fairly obvious as to why. Why is it currently locked out of end game content. That's the big question. Well it's a new job that functions in a much different way then the others. With a progression system vastly different then the others. So players need to have some time to adjust and get used to it and all of the new abilities and find out builds and what not. So why level 50? Because it's OLD content that is useful for experimentation and breaking without upsetting the majority of the player base. You all seem to think that this will never change. That's really pessimistic at best since they have admitted to wanting to add classes like beast tamer and puppet master to this system. That's literally the extent of what we know about this limited job system.. and you have all the info you need to prejudge it? wow you must be clairvoyant or something because that's hardly any information at all to pass judgement. Thank god you aren't a judge in real life trying a death penalty case. That poor sod would get the needle based on opening arguments from the prosecutor without even giving the defense a chance to present a case. -
11-23-2018, 04:41 PMFlatopiais it a fact?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpaw
I mean the assets are there. In terms of developer additions it would be the implementation of the actual job itself using moves with changed values and properties, whatever UI element which would be like, a meter at most, the graphic to switch modes, and um. The text logs for it?
There's no good reason why in the expansion after ShB they couldn't add a separate mode in which to play BLU as a legit job since it is, for the most part, in the game and would require minimal implementation to earn a massive chunk of goodwill and make everyone happy.
To say "it's a nightmare to balance" is silly. Is any other job? If they chose a well designed functional job that used it's assets of monster abilities it will have/already has, then that's so much effort just taken away from making a new job. It's easier on the team at this point to actually make a new job. To argue against the idea of adding a regular job on top of this is ludicrous.
No one is asking to enter modern content with wild moves, or broken stats, or a fully customizable kit- we want a regular job alongside the rest of them alongside this content they are adding. At this point it's a point of simply "why not?" over why. -
11-23-2018, 05:37 PMDarkpaw
Well given the fact that we can't even balance the jobs we have now. We have a ranged physical dps competing for slots in parties with CASTERS. That would imply they have a big enough nightmare balancing the classes we have now. Go ahead go through the forums, go through reddit, see all the complaints of how tanks aren't balanced and never really are, healers aren't balanced and never really are, dps aren't balanced and never really are.. WE CANT BALANCE THE CLASSES WE HAVE NOW. So sure lets throw on another job right off the bat with all these new systems that the dev team aren't even sure how many other issues they're going to have to fix and balance.. with a system that can read what all abilities we can have so we can have convenience of matchmaking.. and throwing another caster that will boil down to the same basic equation.. fill a job specific resource.. release a big boom attack.. rinse, repeat that will eventually after the novelty wears off feel the exact same as the other three do.. because THAT WILL FIX THE BALANCE ISSUES we currently have.. like jesus.. did this blue mage announcement come out and just make everyone forget THAT JOB BALANCE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN ISSUE! They have had a hard time balancing SAMURAI this entire EXPANSION with all sorts of buffs.. hell they can't even figure out machinist.. but yes.. lets give them the task of trying to find a way to balance a blue mage while still making it feel like a blue mage to appease everyone because if it doesn't oooo boy we're still going to set the forums on fire.. this kind of crap.. is the whole basis of the argument that gamers are entitled. "We didn't get what we want but we know what we want can work because we just know." have you coded a job for an mmorpg? have you specifically created one from conception throw programming, animation, regular job balance, raid job balance, trial job balance, alliance raid balance, solo instance balance, and deep dungeon balance.. while still keeping in mind open world content and have it fit nice and neatly among 15 other jobs? you can speculate that this is the easiest thing in the world but the amount of time, effort, precision, attention to detail, troubleshooting, and any other issue would be incredible and they cant do it for the 15 jobs they have now.. so yes lets make a completely original take on blue mage that really will just feel like another standard caster with no real flavor past the initial release of it because the players know all.. and have made up their minds before even playing it.. like really? really?
oh and the whole there's no reason they can't for ShB argument.. how do you friggen know what they are doing with BLU in ShB?! YOU DONT! THATS THE POINT! you're afraid and freaking out on the basis of NOTHING. because we don't have the information to even attempt to make an educated guess.. like how much more basic do I need to spell it out. WE DO NOT KNOW. Error 404 file does not exist. I'm sorry, but the princess you seek is in another dungeon. Speculating on fear and worst case scenarios is asinine. It's like seeing the boogeyman that doesn't exist yet! hell tomorrow we could all be blown up by a nuclear weapon.. so lets throw all civility out the window and just embrace anarchy and do whatever we want! loot and pillage. burn it all down because tomorrow WE MIGHT ALL DIE. -
11-23-2018, 05:59 PMJkap_Goat
Yeah they made red mage work, it uses black and white magic, it uses melee attacks and use a cure, sadly Red Mage doesn't use more healing orsupport abilities like other final Fantasy games. How will blue mage work here when it's knowned to use a lot of monster abilities like mighty gaurd or white wind, Which are healing and tanking monster spells? How would blue mage be any different than the other DPS magic caster's. It would be in this magical dps role just casting magic DPS like all the other ones and it wouldn't be any different. Is that what you want?
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11-23-2018, 06:07 PMFlatopiaQuote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
A spot in the most competitive, well tuned, and creative role set?
Do I want Blue mage in that, as another caster dps?
You bet I do! The jobs are honestly ass extremely viable and only really dive into extreme class picking on week 1 raids if not only day 1 or 2.
It the casters are all fun, unique, and genuinely amazingly done! While I do agree that summoners pets could do with a client side option to make them bigger looking or something, every single caster is great!
They’re so varied and all have unique and fun mechanics that I personally love to play!
I’m fact all jobs do! I’m very impressed with how different the jobs feel while remaining competitive with maybe MCH being the black sheep in terms of quality of design.
I love how they handle the jobs in ffxiv! So, yeah! I would love to see a fresh take on blue mage in easily the most consistently fun role of caster dps!
I don’t see “just” another caster. I see “Holy cow” another caster from how well done these jobs are handled -
11-23-2018, 07:52 PMjon041065Of course the spells would be essentially the same as the other casters have but with different skins. That doens't mean they would have to function the same way. Does rdm core spells function the same as blm's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
My idea would be that blu would have fire, wind, earth, and thunder aligned blue spells make up their core rotation. Yes, same as rdm but these could be "physical blue spells". They could function something closer to mudras in that you perform combos with them. Could work like a much expanded mudra system or have the job gauge track like the last 3 elements you have used. There could be 10+ combinations based on which elements and in which order they were used. Fire/earth/fire and earth/fire/earth could give you different results. Could go crazy and have 36 combinations if you made it that each element had its own cooldown so you wouldn't repeat the same element in a row. Have ocgds be things like bad breath and mighty guard and white wind as your group utility cooldowns. -
11-23-2018, 10:40 PMBourne_EndeavorThis assumes the Masked Carnival will be mid-core content. Given they intend this to be for everyone and not say, a raider audience ala Savage. I can't say I expect the difficulty to be higher than a hard mode trial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadane
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11-24-2018, 02:29 AMJkap_GoatQuote:
Originally Posted by jon041065
Yes because Red Mage is a hybrid between black and white magic, so yes Red Mage does take a bit of spells from Black Mage, but blue mage isn't associated with white and black, BLU using wind, water, earth, lighting spells would be a Geomancer. And geomancer uses elemental spells
The core of blue mage is going out and learning monster abilities
And black mage already uses fire and lighting and ice damaging spells, so it wouldn't be any different from it either. Just the same job with "BLU" written on it.
Seems to me like to want a very watered down blue mage far from it's identity as possible that it wouldn't be a blue mage anymore.
"Have ocgds be things like bad breath and mighty guard and white wind as your group utility cooldowns"
.....What? Those are healing and tanking monster abilities , not utilities cooldowns. -
11-24-2018, 02:44 AMJkap_GoatQuote:
Originally Posted by Flatopia
I'm happy you think that all the DPS casters are very different, but to me they all feel the same except they have one or two very little abilities that make them a bit unique for example "vercure " and "verraise" and Red Mage has a faster raise than Summoner but both of them can still raise. But they are all the same and I'm happy for this implementation of blue mage we are getting.
Blue mage is a different and it's not like the other jobs, core of blue is going out there and learning spells and using spells in battle.depending on what spells you learn you can fit the role of a tank healer or DPS or hybrid. Blue Mage is a very gimmicky job -
11-24-2018, 06:33 AMjon041065Are you on the XIV dev team? To say what spells can and can't be?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
The identity of blu has always been learning enemy abilities and using them as you said. There have been other variations of the learning method. We aren't even arguing against the method they went with.
Also, I said the spells would have that affinity. They could do usaspected damage and still fit in with the mechanic I said. Are blm and rdm geomancers for using those elements too? Are you against the iteration of blu they announced as well? They are using spells using the same elements I used. If you're not against that version of blu as well then you're a hypocrite.
I wanted and expected a "XIV blue mage" and instead we got "FFV blue mage" with a large spell pool. -
11-24-2018, 06:37 AMFlatopiaGoing out and learning them can still be there, I'm arguing for a coherent version of the job possibly even offered as a reward for carnival that can we use in current content as a separate mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
Imagine, a caster that stays a tad closer, as most monster moves are either cones or lines, it would stand to reason that their spells would have shorter range.
Instead of just a regular AOE attack, it could be thousand needles, or a move to rival Trick Attack that gives a vulnerability up debuff? Maybe bad breath? There's so much freedom here as they've done honestly amazing jobs with designing all the jobs so far, I would love to see that same creative energy in this job instead of a hunt log with RNG -
11-24-2018, 07:43 AMDualgunnerIf you're playing RDM like SMN, vice versa, ir pretending BLM plays similarly to either of them I have a bridge to sell you. Superficially they all cast, yes; SMN has a three segmented rotation (ruin dwt bahamut), BLM is a game of predict movement and gambling on cast time ans worth vs mechanic resolution, and RDM is a game of fast math and resource management to make the most use out of the melee combo without capping out on the mana gauge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
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11-24-2018, 07:44 AMDarkpawSpeculation territory based on the fact that we don’t know what the future holds for blu. These are based on the assumption of a worst case scenario tha t we don’t even know will come to fruition. This is the problem. We do not know what the future holds for blu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatopia
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11-24-2018, 08:20 AMFlatopiaNo I base these assumptions off of elements already present in the game. And we do know the immediate future of Blue Mage, in that it will not be allowed to pursue modern content under the format it is being given. They have given a very clear idea of what Blue Mage will be in that you are given a log with only the area listed of where the move is from, you enter, see the move, defeat the monster and hope the RNG gives you the move. After you have collected enough moves to your liking you enter an arena.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpaw
These are all things they have clearly said and are all the things I base the job off of now. There is no reason to assume there is a secret underbelly to this minigame that they have hidden for no reason when they have been extremely up front of the core mechanics.
This is not assumption, this is understanding the information put forth. -
11-24-2018, 08:46 AMDarkpaw
And once again there’s a few key phrases. “Immediate future.” Aka we know the plan at implementation not going forward from implementation. Basing assumptions on select pieces of information does not change that it is an assumption aka speculation. They have not given a clear idea of the future of the limited job system or blue mage because while it feels like we got a lot of information. We didn’t. Especially in regards to the limited job system and it’s future. Our understanding is limited because the information we have to process is limited.
I can call a rose a daisy and it doesn’t change the nature of the rose or it’s scent or it’s appearance. Call it assumptions, call it reasoned arguments, call it whatever you like. It’s speculation based on limited information and fear of a worse case scenario that could all be remedied by taking a step back. Waiting a few weeks and experiencing it for yourself to justify your suspicions or change your opinion. A little patience and an open mind go a long way in making a cohesive and responsible argument. And an even longer way towards giving constructive feedback.