New Player: Critical Observations

Hello! First off a few caveats: I will not mention things that will be implemented/fixed with 2.0. I realize this game is getting revamped and it is redundant to moan about things that will be fixed. Secondly this may be a bit long and for that my apologies. Third, I make comparisons to FFXI. This should not come as a surprise as that game was the predecessor to this installment.

Background: Launch FFXI player until about 2007, a few other MMO's sprinkled in, 30 minute beta tester for FXIV.

So I joined this game about 2 weeks ago after hearing about the plethora of changes that have occurred since Beta. I must say I am enjoying the game but I would like to bring light to some things being done well and some things that need improvement down the road.

Leveling

While I enjoy the fact that the game isn't punishing like launch FFXI was, I feel that DOW/DOM leveling is way to fast. For instance, recent low level dungeons such as Shposhrae have been implemented but you level so fast that it is pointless to even bother with many of them. This in turn creates problems for the dev team as they have to constantly pump out end-game content to placate the player-base.

When a MMO becomes so top heavy that low level content is essentially worthless retention issues start to occur if the devs cannot keep up with end game content. With the arrival of 2.0 I believe that leveling should be scaled back for the new players in order to better facilitate the use of low level dungeons/quests. When a game simply becomes about end-game gear I would argue, -though opinions may differ- that the game itself begins to stagnate. I personally hate a gear grind more than a level grind.

Let us compare the leveling system with launch FFXI until about 2007. Let me get this out of the way first; launch FFXI was too punishing and should not be totally replicated, however the pacing and content available on the trek to 75 was valuable and worth doing. If FFXIV really wants to differentiate itself from the plethora of WOW clones they should not be focused on blasting the new users to 50 as quickly as possible. Instead they should create a system akin to FFXI's that actively promotes low level content and creates roadblocks on the path to 50 that requires teamwork to surpass.

Let me state that I am not advocating for this game to be FFXI in HD, rather I am pointing out that FFXI made the journey to 75 -as 'grindy' as it was- varied and interesting. It wasn't an easy journey to 75 but there were limit break quests, AF quests, BCNMs and various other activities that made the game enjoyable. I never once felt in 2004 and 2005 that I needed to be at 75 to enjoy the game to the fullest.

For perspective, I have GLD at 20, MRD at 23, Armorer at 20, Mining at 21, Blacksmithing at 17, carpentry and botany at 15 in less than 2 weeks of casual play. I think there is something fundamentally wrong here that needs to be addressed.

Battle System

While I realize this is getting revamped in 2.0 there are some criticisms I would like to make.

The first problem is that I really feel no sense of urgency or danger in battle. In FFXI, fighting 'Incredibly Tough' monsters was extremely dangerous. A link at the wrong time could wipe your group, a blown skill-chain could extend the battle to deadly lengths. Here, whenever I am grouped with 7 other adventurers it feels like we are a tank rolling over straw huts. In FFXI preparation was everything and character death was a very real possibility no matter what level you were; in FFXIV you just wander around wherever you go like a maelstrom of death and destruction.

The second problem I have is with the revamped skill system. Quite frankly it feels like I am playing WoW, DCUO or any other MMO based off the Warcraft model. I assign a ability, press 1, 2, 3 ect and watch my character utilize a various skill. When I am grouped up it feels even worse. It seems as if everyone is spamming attacks with impunity Again, I think this game can learn something from early FFXI going forward.

Skill-chains (SC) for instance in FFXI were a great way to promote teamwork and cooperation between party members. If you failed to do this, you failed to level efficiently. If you spammed your skills you got yourself killed. To succeed a firm knowledge of the battle system was required. The addition of SC to FFXIV would go a long way toward actively involving the player in the battle.

I would also try and reduce the party maximum to 6 or 5. With a party of 8 it feels like a giant cluster**** and is made even worse by the fact that everyone is just spamming skills to kill them as quickly as possible. Slow it down, it won't kill us. For end-game, alliances of 12 or 10 could be made available to topple a particularly tough challenge.

I also like how FFXI enforced partying on us. To progress we had to party unless we were BST. I do understand that this is not palatable in this day and age and thus promote a compromise.

Grouping should be the best choice if you want to level in this game going forward with 2.0. Most mobs past 15 in various zones should require a group to kill much like they did in FFXI.

"But we should have the ability to play how we want/solo."

I agree whole-heartily and that is where Leves should come in. Leves should be done only solo or in a pair and when spawned put you in an instance or spawn instanced monsters on the map that can be killed solo to complete the leve. The rewards and exp should not be comparable to grouping but it should be enough to keep you busy and progressing toward the next level while looking for a group. This solution prevents the game from turning into the waiting game that FFXI was at times for certain jobs.

If they decide to implement SC, they should also implement weapon skill levels. FFXI erred in the fact that you only leveled on certain monsters due to the danger most presented. If certain types are weak to certain chains it means that a party can change its leveling location and enemy type based on the job/class of the SC'ing members of the party. This prevents certain classes being ostracized such as DRK and DRG were around 2005 until they hit 66.

Crafting

I have no real issues with crafting in this game. In every MMO I've played, crafting has been a chore and FFXIV has tried to change that up. I would like to suggest that since pressing enter so many times is monotonous there should be a system in place that crafts a low level item automatically without needing the mini-game to be set-up. Even hasty-handing gets monotonous after awhile.

Apparently a revamp of the crafting system is en-route so that is all I have to say about this subject.

Loot + Gathering

The economy appears to be in shambles at the moment with little value placed on gil. Part of me enjoys the fact that I don't need to have millions of millions of gil to obtain certain items but economically it is terrible for the game. Even if an AH is implemented it will not solve the supply problem.

As it currently stands materials are a piece of cake to gather. There is an abundance of everything which creates little demand, since everyone can gather whatever they want in relatively little time.

In FFXI, I personally was a miner. I mined where most people wouldn't and thus felt like I was a contributing member of the economy. I wasn't a high level crafter, but myself and a few others went to great lengths to gather the materials needed that crafters would buy to make certain objects. Many of these crafters alternatively, did not venture into Ifrit's Cauldron or the Gustav Mines to whittle away a day mining ore and raw materials.

From the low levels farming crystals, to the crazed miners braving Ifrit's Cauldron, everyone contributed to the economy. While the current system dissuades RMT to an extent it effectively kills any semblance of economy.

Conclusion

This post may come off as negative to some people but the points listed above are really just suggestions put forward to the dev team that could help in creating a vastly different user experience from the plethora of WOW clones on the market today.

As a new player, the good currently outweighs the bad and I see myself sticking around for 2.0. I like the direction the game is going and applaud the grueling hours put in by the dev team in order to fix this game and redeem the reputation that was lost at launch.

If you got through this thanks for reading. While you may not agree with my points, at the very least it will create dialogue that will lead to even better ideas down the road.

I will edit this for grammatical errors tomorrow. If it is sloppy as of the current writing please forgive me for it is quite late!

Trust me bud - the gathering gets bad later on. The mats needed to grind on start being only obtainable individually (no more 2-3 ores per crack.) This is actually a problem because, as some people have stated, the mats sell for more than the finished items, atm.

Either way, very nice observations.

About the leveling being so fast that everyone skips the low-level content like Shposhae; this is a really good point. I think Shposhae is a rather pretty and fun dungeon and it's a shame that I find it empty every time I go there.

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...7f5e00240a.jpg

Maybe instead of making leveling slower, they could limit leveling by making players do a quest in order to advance past level 20, 30, 40, etc, like they have for higher levels in FFXI. The level 20 Advancement quest could involve killing all the NMs in Shposhae for DoW/DoM... I think it's REALLY hard, but not impossible with self heals and potions, to solo the Shposhae NMs at level 20. So this would give most people an opportunity to group up and go to Shposhae and have a good time hunting NMs, and still give soloers an option if they try really hard. For DoL/DoH, they could add "special" gathering points/facilities within Shposhae where players can obtain a quest item to advance past level 20.

http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...IV_Coeurl_.jpg


If these quests could involve some cutscenes and story, then all the better. It'll limit level progression without making things grindy or boring. Basically they need to make low-level content as interesting and involved as "endgame" stuff in this way.

They should also probably make these quests available starting when you're at least 5 levels below the "limit" of 20, 30, 40, etc, so there's a larger pool of other players who also can do the same quest with you.

Anyway, just wanted to write down this suggestion right away. Time to continue reading your original post!

I agree. When I hit 15 I entered Shposhea because I heard there was decent gear to be had. Before I had even obtained 2 pieces of gear I had hit 20 and found the location pretty much outdated. There was another guy with the same mentality as myself so we teamed up and managed to take out the Lone Coeurl at 19. It was incredibly challenging to get down to him and kill him without dying but it was quite fun.

I think your post was a good read and i agree with all of the issues raised.

Crafting interface = Slow and monotonous.

Economy is screwed atm. Matts need to be rarer or there needs to be more gil sinks implemented.

Made some good points in the battle part. Particularly, leveling curve being too fast.

The fact that its going to be made even faster with rested inn's and the fact that jobs dont even have to be leveled, makes me more than concerned.

One of our members who returned ground her class for hours to get it to 40 before she had to go back to school, only to go from 40-50 in a single day thanks to a wolf camp.

It's pretty ridiculous. Entire LS's go on vacation to play other things until the next "big patch". That's 2-3 months of no content for us. Moogle fight is pretty fun and difficult though (you have to have a good group and good communication to win). So if they keep up with content like that, then I believe that will ease up on the top heaviness of the game. (I really hope Garuda is not like Ifrit where you just spam spells and take naps between Weaponskill timers. Let's keep up the moogle standard!)

Also, they mentioned that job gear will be particularly difficult to get. So with new gear and jobs to keep r50s busy, I don't think we're going to feel the effects of the boredom the same.

Here's hoping!

I think it's power leveling that kills the game as well. People don't even bother to buy gear for a job from 1-35 since someone will be PL them. And then just head to a natalan party and you are done in a day or two...

Great post. About this one point:

Quote:

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Skill-chains (SC) for instance in FFXI were a great way to promote teamwork and cooperation between party members. If you failed to do this, you failed to level efficiently. If you spammed your skills you got yourself killed. To succeed a firm knowledge of the battle system was required. The addition of SC to FFXIV would go a long way toward actively involving the player in the battle.

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Battle Regimens are being revamped in the future (Rukkirii made a thread about this some time ago), so we'll be able to both solo combos and BRs. I'm really looking forward to it. :3

I agree that leveling up can be extremely quick. But I, in my individual capacity, mostly solo to about 35 on most classes and find that fun and time-consuming. So it's a choice.

Finally an OP that doesn't make a fool out of themselves.

I agree with most of what you have said, leveling is too fast for various reasons, especially this one:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HokSeven

I think it's power leveling that kills the game as well. People don't even bother to buy gear for a job from 1-35 since someone will be PL them. And then just head to a natalan party and you are done in a day or two...

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Exactly, so why bother with low-level dungeons? I don't want to turn this thread into another PL debate, but it is an issue that is being played down by too many people. Even if SE adjusts the leveling curve, it still won't stop people getting PLed past low level content.

As for battle not being dangerous, it's only true if you are leveling on mobs too close to your level. If you level on mobs that are more than 5 levels above you, wiping is a high possibility once someone messes up (linking too much or healer healing the wrong target, or healing at the wrong time pulling hate to themselves)

Economy being in shambles is mostly because the majority of the playerbase already burned through all of the content, having all classes leveled to cap. That's why supply heavily outweighs demand. It should get better if we ever get a decent influx of new players, but that probably won't happen until 2.0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Finally an OP that doesn't make a fool out of themselves.

I agree with most of what you have said, leveling is too fast for various reasons, especially this one:
Exactly, so why bother with low-level dungeons? I don't want to turn this thread into another PL debate, but it is an issue that is being played down by too many people. Even if SE adjusts the leveling curve, it still won't stop people getting PLed past low level content.

As for battle not being dangerous, it's only true if you are leveling on mobs too close to your level. If you level on mobs that are more than 5 levels above you, wiping is a high possibility once someone messes up (linking too much or healer healing the wrong target, or healing at the wrong time pulling hate to themselves)

Economy being in shambles is mostly because the majority of the playerbase already burned through all of the content, having all classes leveled to cap. That's why supply heavily outweighs demand. It should get better if we ever get a decent influx of new players, but that probably won't happen until 2.0

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You're absolutely right, and I'm not debating PL, but I'm saying it must go once 2.0 is introduced or keep it and forever forget about low level content. Just like to-to-rak, there is absolutely no reason for that dungeon. I suggest since SE got the assets, scrap it and put level 60+ mobs in it and make it a lvl50 dungeon.

That is of course like I said they fix that in 2.0 (which they seem to say they'll fix everything in it).

For the battle, you were right. Go level on higher mobs and then complain about the battle not being hard. What to complain about is besides the healer, there is no job definition for the rest (a tank maybe, but people even tanked Ifrit with a PGL or MRD). Every battle is a zerg-fest. Very few times you'll need to sleep and kite mobs (moogle battle). where in FFXI even bird parties needed the bard to keep sleeping and managing mobs. Perhaps the jobs will add some flavor to the battle?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkillumina

Hello! First off a few caveats: I will not mention things that will be implemented/fixed with 2.0. I realize this game is getting revamped and it is redundant to moan about things that will be fixed. Secondly this may be a bit long and for that my apologies. Third, I make comparisons to FFXI. This should not come as a surprise as that game was the predecessor to this installment.

Background: Launch FFXI player until about 2007, a few other MMO's sprinkled in, 30 minute beta tester for FXIV.

So I joined this game about 2 weeks ago after hearing about the plethora of changes that have occurred since Beta. I must say I am enjoying the game but I would like to bring light to some things being done well and some things that need improvement down the road.

Leveling

While I enjoy the fact that the game isn't punishing like launch FFXI was, I feel that DOW/DOM leveling is way to fast. For instance, recent low level dungeons such as Shposhrae have been implemented but you level so fast that it is pointless to even bother with many of them. This in turn creates problems for the dev team as they have to constantly pump out end-game content to placate the player-base.

When a MMO becomes so top heavy that low level content is essentially worthless retention issues start to occur if the devs cannot keep up with end game content. With the arrival of 2.0 I believe that leveling should be scaled back for the new players in order to better facilitate the use of low level dungeons/quests. When a game simply becomes about end-game gear I would argue, -though opinions may differ- that the game itself begins to stagnate. I personally hate a gear grind more than a level grind.

Let us compare the leveling system with launch FFXI until about 2007. Let me get this out of the way first; launch FFXI was too punishing and should not be totally replicated, however the pacing and content available on the trek to 75 was valuable and worth doing. If FFXIV really wants to differentiate itself from the plethora of WOW clones they should not be focused on blasting the new users to 50 as quickly as possible. Instead they should create a system akin to FFXI's that actively promotes low level content and creates roadblocks on the path to 50 that requires teamwork to surpass.

Let me state that I am not advocating for this game to be FFXI in HD, rather I am pointing out that FFXI made the journey to 75 -as 'grindy' as it was- varied and interesting. It wasn't an easy journey to 75 but there were limit break quests, AF quests, BCNMs and various other activities that made the game enjoyable. I never once felt in 2004 and 2005 that I needed to be at 75 to enjoy the game to the fullest.

For perspective, I have GLD at 20, MRD at 23, Armorer at 20, Mining at 21, Blacksmithing at 17, carpentry and botany at 15 in less than 2 weeks of casual play. I think there is something fundamentally wrong here that needs to be addressed.

Battle System

While I realize this is getting revamped in 2.0 there are some criticisms I would like to make.

The first problem is that I really feel no sense of urgency or danger in battle. In FFXI, fighting 'Incredibly Tough' monsters was extremely dangerous. A link at the wrong time could wipe your group, a blown skill-chain could extend the battle to deadly lengths. Here, whenever I am grouped with 7 other adventurers it feels like we are a tank rolling over straw huts. In FFXI preparation was everything and character death was a very real possibility no matter what level you were; in FFXIV you just wander around wherever you go like a maelstrom of death and destruction.

The second problem I have is with the revamped skill system. Quite frankly it feels like I am playing WoW, DCUO or any other MMO based off the Warcraft model. I assign a ability, press 1, 2, 3 ect and watch my character utilize a various skill. When I am grouped up it feels even worse. It seems as if everyone is spamming attacks with impunity Again, I think this game can learn something from early FFXI going forward.

Skill-chains (SC) for instance in FFXI were a great way to promote teamwork and cooperation between party members. If you failed to do this, you failed to level efficiently. If you spammed your skills you got yourself killed. To succeed a firm knowledge of the battle system was required. The addition of SC to FFXIV would go a long way toward actively involving the player in the battle.

I would also try and reduce the party maximum to 6 or 5. With a party of 8 it feels like a giant cluster**** and is made even worse by the fact that everyone is just spamming skills to kill them as quickly as possible. Slow it down, it won't kill us. For end-game, alliances of 12 or 10 could be made available to topple a particularly tough challenge.

I also like how FFXI enforced partying on us. To progress we had to party unless we were BST. I do understand that this is not palatable in this day and age and thus promote a compromise.

Grouping should be the best choice if you want to level in this game going forward with 2.0. Most mobs past 15 in various zones should require a group to kill much like they did in FFXI.

"But we should have the ability to play how we want/solo."

I agree whole-heartily and that is where Leves should come in. Leves should be done only solo or in a pair and when spawned put you in an instance or spawn instanced monsters on the map that can be killed solo to complete the leve. The rewards and exp should not be comparable to grouping but it should be enough to keep you busy and progressing toward the next level while looking for a group. This solution prevents the game from turning into the waiting game that FFXI was at times for certain jobs.

If they decide to implement SC, they should also implement weapon skill levels. FFXI erred in the fact that you only leveled on certain monsters due to the danger most presented. If certain types are weak to certain chains it means that a party can change its leveling location and enemy type based on the job/class of the SC'ing members of the party. This prevents certain classes being ostracized such as DRK and DRG were around 2005 until they hit 66.

Crafting

I have no real issues with crafting in this game. In every MMO I've played, crafting has been a chore and FFXIV has tried to change that up. I would like to suggest that since pressing enter so many times is monotonous there should be a system in place that crafts a low level item automatically without needing the mini-game to be set-up. Even hasty-handing gets monotonous after awhile.

Apparently a revamp of the crafting system is en-route so that is all I have to say about this subject.

Loot + Gathering

The economy appears to be in shambles at the moment with little value placed on gil. Part of me enjoys the fact that I don't need to have millions of millions of gil to obtain certain items but economically it is terrible for the game. Even if an AH is implemented it will not solve the supply problem.

As it currently stands materials are a piece of cake to gather. There is an abundance of everything which creates little demand, since everyone can gather whatever they want in relatively little time.

In FFXI, I personally was a miner. I mined where most people wouldn't and thus felt like I was a contributing member of the economy. I wasn't a high level crafter, but myself and a few others went to great lengths to gather the materials needed that crafters would buy to make certain objects. Many of these crafters alternatively, did not venture into Ifrit's Cauldron or the Gustav Mines to whittle away a day mining ore and raw materials.

From the low levels farming crystals, to the crazed miners braving Ifrit's Cauldron, everyone contributed to the economy. While the current system dissuades RMT to an extent it effectively kills any semblance of economy.

Conclusion

This post may come off as negative to some people but the points listed above are really just suggestions put forward to the dev team that could help in creating a vastly different user experience from the plethora of WOW clones on the market today.

As a new player, the good currently outweighs the bad and I see myself sticking around for 2.0. I like the direction the game is going and applaud the grueling hours put in by the dev team in order to fix this game and redeem the reputation that was lost at launch.

If you got through this thanks for reading. While you may not agree with my points, at the very least it will create dialogue that will lead to even better ideas down the road.

I will edit this for grammatical errors tomorrow. If it is sloppy as of the current writing please forgive me for it is quite late!

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I agree with u 100% dude. especially for the battling system/ skill bar and the game heading towards high end content and gear grind. Party sized really need to be cut to 5 or 6 also. Devs just need to copy/paste this post in their office now:)

Another one of these?...

Conclusion:

More "dialogue" on topics beaten to a pulp is definitely the answer. Nothing rehashed for the millionth time here~ Not talking in circles at all.

Let's start a conversation about the lack of mailboxes again, I think it's been about a week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AngryNixon

Another one of these?...

Conclusion:

More "dialogue" on topics beaten to a pulp is definitely the answer. Nothing rehashed for the millionth time here~ Not talking in circles at all.

Let's start a conversation about the lack of mailboxes again, I think it's been about a week.

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No mailboxes till 2013. It'll be some good lulz once 2.0 hits & everyone quits over this 1 thing. w

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AngryNixon

Another one of these?...

Conclusion:

More "dialogue" on topics beaten to a pulp is definitely the answer. Nothing rehashed for the millionth time here~ Not talking in circles at all.

Let's start a conversation about the lack of mailboxes again, I think it's been about a week.

---

Nixon's Law: Once we've discussed something once, we shall never discuss it ever again!

Thanks for sharing your opinion, its alway good to hear the opinions of new players!.

Uh...but so many threads like this are starting to feel a little ridiculous, I think it would be better if new players wrote their opinions in one thread.

Levelling

I don't want to see roadblocks to levelling like genkia, they were fun in 11 but if you couldn't get a group it was just a hindrance.

I agree that levelling is too fast and that low to mid content seems a bit wasted due to this, that being said I am a fan of gear grind at end game (only if gear is worth getting, which currently it isn't), and Yoshida has said that he is happy with designing a game where players get to end game fast.

Lets not forget that 50 is not end game and he has made some hints to a possible cap increase after 1.21.

Battle

Agree with you the standard monsters and leves are too easy, but this content is meant for solo play.

Going to a stronghold camp for example is much harder and lvl 45-50 content (mainly Primals) has its challenge as well.

I don't agree to enforcing party play either, some people just don't have the time to find a party, it was one of the worst aspects of FF11, because if you only had 1-2 hours to play you didn't want to waste someone else's time and if you made a group you felt as if you were forced to play for 5-6 hours or more.

Levelling in a group is much faster than soloing so there are incentives.

You suggest making leves main solo content (they already are) but there is no easy way to make leve mobs easier than standard mobs (or vice versa) as monsters work on base stats x lvl, it would require leve monsters being much lower level which would effect the XP you get, in turn making the content worthless, they could make leve mobs have different stats to regular mobs but this would require more work for the dev team.

Leves are already slower XP than partying, although perhaps not at low levels.

Gathering

As someone else suggested in the last patch certain items were scaled back to only provide 1 item per attempt, in turn reducing the overall supply of materials. (I imagine this is work in progress and will continue to be monitored)

Gil is still too easy to come by but the dev team are working on this with gil sinks and such, as above I expect they are still working out ways to solve the issue.

Conclusion

Your post is a good one although comes across wanting the game to follow too strongly in FFXI foosteps, I can appreciate the want to have things feel familiar I also played FFXI for 5 years but after a while you will learn to except that the game is what it is.

I thinks its really important that dev team don't try to make this game too much like 11 as it should stand on its own and Yoshida does seem to be doing a good job of changing the game for the better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Levelling

I don't want to see roadblocks to levelling like genkia, they were fun in 11 but if you couldn't get a group it was just a hindrance.

I agree that levelling is too fast and that low to mid content seems a bit wasted due to this, that being said I am a fan of gear grind at end game (only if gear is worth getting, which currently it isn't), and Yoshida has said that he is happy with designing a game where players get to end game fast.

Lets not forget that 50 is not end game and he has made some hints to a possible cap increase after 1.21.

Battle

Agree with you the standard monsters and leves are too easy, but this content is meant for solo play.

Going to a stronghold camp for example is much harder and lvl 45-50 content (mainly Primals) has its challenge as well.

I don't agree to enforcing party play either, some people just don't have the time to find a party, it was one of the worst aspects of FF11, because if you only had 1-2 hours to play you didn't want to waste someone else's time and if you made a group you felt as if you were forced to play for 5-6 hours or more.

Levelling in a group is much faster than soloing so there are incentives.

You suggest making leves main solo content (they already are) but there is no easy way to make leve mobs easier than standard mobs (or vice versa) as monsters work on base stats x lvl, it would require leve monsters being much lower level which would effect the XP you get, in turn making the content worthless, they could make leve mobs have different stats to regular mobs but this would require more work for the dev team.

Leves are already slower XP than partying, although perhaps not at low levels.

Gathering

As someone else suggested in the last patch certain items were scaled back to only provide 1 item per attempt, in turn reducing the overall supply of materials. (I imagine this is work in progress and will continue to be monitored)

Gil is still too easy to come by but the dev team are working on this with gil sinks and such, as above I expect they are still working out ways to solve the issue.

Conclusion

Your post is a good one although comes across wanting the game to follow too strongly in FFXI foosteps, I can appreciate the want to have things feel familiar I also played FFXI for 5 years but after a while you will learn to except that the game is what it is.

I thinks its really important that dev team don't try to make this game too much like 11 as it should stand on its own and Yoshida does seem to be doing a good job of changing the game for the better.

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What can i say... You read his post and u still some here and write some anti- FFXI stuff? Another irrelevant post. (FFXIV launch) See what what happen when an FF title try to be different? I really would rather they copy FFXI than to listen to some X WoW player.

Another new player's experience:

I love that this game allows me to have my life, and still come on and get some decent progress in leveling in a relatively short guildleve period. Yeah, I know, I'm not playing it "right" to blast through content as fast as I can to superfastultrahurryfasterfasterfaster to level cap, but I've, as a new player, gone in and personally experienced all the low level content I can find, and I'm loving this game.

I think the problem is the mindset people have that they have to hurryhurryhurry to level cap, and don't go and experience content for the sheer joy of seeing/experiencing something new.

tl;dr: The problem isn't the content available, or the game design, the problem is player mindset.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HokSeven

You're absolutely right, and I'm not debating PL, but I'm saying it must go once 2.0 is introduced or keep it and forever forget about low level content. Just like to-to-rak, there is absolutely no reason for that dungeon. I suggest since SE got the assets, scrap it and put level 60+ mobs in it and make it a lvl50 dungeon.

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actually there is a bout a 1000 reasons to do to-to-rak not counting gear and achievements but the seals alone is enough reason to do it if you want to get your chocobo early on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Nixon's Law: Once we've discussed something once, we shall never discuss it ever again!

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Wow I have laws? Nice. Thank you Hiir. That's a good one though.

If I did have laws I don't think it would be that exactly. It would be more like.

"
Nixon's Law on Forums, 1st ed.

1. Once discussed, topics shall not be raised again, other than:

(a) If the OP refers to previous discussions on the topic with proper citation used to acknowledge that the topic has been discussed at length, and how the OP's post differs from or adds to the current discussion;

(b) By way of necro-bumping the original discussion or the most relevant discussion where applicable once having searched it out on the forums, thereby contributing ideas to the already present debate.

2. In all cases the forum goer will make every attempt to not post identical topics in the forums in order to preserve a level of forum cleanliness and order and to avoid discussion at cross-purposes or along multiple parallel lines.

Definition(s):

necro bumping: The practice of posting in an old/dated post thereby returning the topic to the first page for reconsideration or consideration anew based on new/novel thoughts/ideas.

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Absolutely love the OP. It brings up issues that i've had with the game for a long time. The Final Fantasy (online) games are mainly more for a niche audience. I absolutely hate being able to spam classes to 50 in such a short amount of time. So much that I don't even want to level more classes outside of crafting/gathering. However I don't see this being changed because Yoshi-P has come off on this subject with a "It's my way, and that's final" attitude.

As for gathering. In the future I believe that all materials gathered will be dropped to one. I would also like to see materials such as Cobal/Electrum/Mythril/Gemstones become very rare in the gathering process. As it stands now there are just simply too many in the game. What's going to happen @ PS3 launch? 10,000 Cobalt on the AH for 25 Gil per?

I completely agree with OP. Very nice analysis and very nice suggestions ^^. You have summed a lot of of concerns that I have had for a long time.

Imma be FLAMED for this I know but here we go lol

Well there are some good points raised you still need to realize this game was horribly bad at its release a year ago and the dev team is making great progress fixing the big pile of steaming poo they were handed. And yes there isnt much challange right now but a whole lot of technical stuff had to be dealt with before they could really get meaty things going.

The game is top heavy now but so is the playerbase and yes that sucks for those just coming in but se needs to give us something to do at higher lvls and the fact that places like shposhae and toto-rak are neglected by players who are of that lvl is most likely why not much is being added for low lvls right now. As stated shposhae is empty, why would the devs waste their time on low lvl content when its not being utilized by anyone. If the playerbase wants low lvl content the playerbase has to make it worthwhile to the devs to impliment it. If they playerbase, including new players, ignore, skips or neglects low lvl content what motivation do the devs have to contruct maps, quests, stories, gear and all the meat that goes into them when so much other stuff needs to be done and done soon.

On a side note: I love how no one wants a wow clone but almost beg for a ffxi clone. Im not a fan of WoW either but a clone by any other name is still a clone and if I wanted to play ffxi I would boot it up instead. Just because something was in WoW and not ffxi shouldnt make it taboo if it worked and worked well. I played ffxi for 6 yrs and it had alot of faults as well, I think its more comfortable for many of us and we want what we know rather than seeing something different or, the twelve forbid, something that was used in a diff game. They should use what works and what ppl enjoy.

But before such a lengthy critical post is constructed you may want to reserve judgement until youre a little higher than lvl 20. Since you dont even have access to half of the content we have atm nor can you really construct accurately how jobs work or the game itself plays. You may want to give first impressions but it sounds like your giving an overall judgement and having just dipped your toes in thats kindda hard to do.

@ Micah

No one is specifically asking for a direct FFXI clone. However a good portion of us want an experience that is different, but yet shares some similarities. The leveling/quest process in FFXI is something I would love here. There are ways they could utilize areas like Shposhae and Toto-Rak. This game solely being centered around crafting/materia now doesn't help the process. There is almost nothing for us high levels to do outside of spam Ifrit/Moogle for weapons.

@ Micah and Zezlar

This coming from a player who spent the better part of 4 years playing FF XI, and who quit that game due to the annoyance of the time requirements and forced grouping, I couldn't be happier with how this game plays, and the similarities that already exist with FF XI. In my opinion, they already ported enough similarities.

That said, I couldn't agree more with the suggestion that there DOES need to be much content to explore and work through at top level. That doesn't change the fact that low levle content will always be ignored by breakneck levelers. (Caveat: with the player matching system the developers have stated is part of the 2.0 experience, expect far more people to play through and expeirence low level content).

@micah and zezlar and ornoire

all the post in this thread are too long so i refuse to read any of them

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

@micah and zezlar and ornoire

all the post in this thread are too long so i refuse to read any of them

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If you don't mind me asking then, why exactly are you here? This is a place where people come together to share ideas, suggestions, and critiquing.

@ Norsoire

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I know not everyone will agree with me, but from my standpoint there are only two Final Fantasy Online games, but there are hundreds of WoW clones. When you only really enjoyed that first niche FF MMO, there aren't many options for people like me. So wanting to see those similarities in that games successor is only natural.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

If you don't mind me asking then, why exactly are you here? This is a place where people come together to share ideas, suggestions, and critiquing.

@ Norsoire

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I know not everyone will agree with me, but from my standpoint there are only two Final Fantasy Online games, but there are hundreds of WoW clones. When you only really enjoyed that first niche FF MMO, there aren't many options for people like me. So wanting to see those similarities in that games successor is only natural.

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He once shared an idea with me to /wave at someone and when they /wave back to /snowball them. Hilarious!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

If you don't mind me asking then, why exactly are you here? This is a place where people come together to share ideas, suggestions, and critiquing.

@ Norsoire

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I know not everyone will agree with me, but from my standpoint there are only two Final Fantasy Online games, but there are hundreds of WoW clones. When you only really enjoyed that first niche FF MMO, there aren't many options for people like me. So wanting to see those similarities in that games successor is only natural.

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well if you must now im really bored today and killing time till i got home.

Quote:

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He once shared an idea with me to /wave at someone and when they /wave back to /snowball them. Hilarious!

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i miss snowball, but if they replaced it with /rock it could be funnier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

well if you must now im really bord today and killing time till i got home.



i miss snowball, but if they replaced it with /rock it could be funnier.

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lol priceless

You make a persuasive argument, Fry!

Nice topic, I like it. :p

Thank you for those who posted constructively. Please keep it coming.

To the plebes complaining about redundancy I offer this in response:

First, I did not attempt to troll like so many of the other posts in this forum. If I wanted to troll I would have had 200+ replies like recent troll posts. I laid out my thoughts in a straightforward manner that was easy to follow. Yes some of the topics may have been discussed already but I did my research and laid them out in a thought-provoking manner looking at some of the alternatives possible.

Second, You shouldn't really be looking down on threads like these. New players at the current time are a relatively rare breed and the developers need this type of feedback. Their audience going forward are not the few of us playing right now. They are trying to resuscitate the game with an influx of new users at 2.0. Ergo, it is common sense that they be open to threads like this one. The Devs aren't infallible, last time we put our trust wholly into them they gave us launch FFXIV, thus posts like these are necessary to ensure they don't bork it up again. There isn't a third chance. Even us Final Fantasy fans as masochistic as we are have a limit.

Now to further the discussion,

Solo activity can be viable without messing up the flow of the game. DCUO for instance has certain instances that are done with 2 people which are outside the normal flow of the game. If you don't have time to raid in that game you can duo and still come out with some experience and gear.

I do stand by my belief that the game is much, much too easy at this point in time. Every single MMO released recently has been done the exact same way. Why not a throwback to some of the difficulty of FFXI? This is an MMO. I'm not looking to finish it in a month like a regular game. I don't need to be placated by a quick run to 50. I'm not saying copy FFXI, but there were damn good ideas utilized there that could be transferred over to this game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkillumina

Second, You shouldn't really be looking down on threads like these. New players at the current time are a relatively rare breed and the developers need this type of feedback. Their audience going forward are not the few of us playing right now. They are trying to resuscitate the game with an influx of new users at 2.0. Ergo, it is common sense that they be open to threads like this one. The Devs aren't infallible, last time we put our trust wholly into them they gave us launch FFXIV, thus posts like these are necessary to ensure they don't bork it up again. There isn't a third chance. Even us Final Fantasy fans as masochistic as we are have a limit.

Now to further the discussion,

Solo activity can be viable without messing up the flow of the game. DCUO for instance has certain instances that are done with 2 people which are outside the normal flow of the game. If you don't have time to raid in that game you can duo and still come out with some experience and gear.

I do stand by my belief that the game is much, much too easy at this point in time. Every single MMO released recently has been done the exact same way. Why not a throwback to some of the difficulty of FFXI? This is an MMO. I'm not looking to finish it in a month like a regular game. I don't need to be placated by a quick run to 50. I'm not saying copy FFXI, but there were damn good ideas utilized there that could be transferred over to this game.

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Don't you see the irony in what you posted there? On the one hand you call out for a game that is not release FF XIV (e.g. not a marignal game) and on the other you are calling for FF XI, which was (as much as this may start a flame war) a largely marginal game (and before you flame, FF developers themselves admitted as much during the early development cycle of FF XIV and aired their hopes that XIV wouldn't be so marginal).

Is the difficulty setting as it stands "just right"? Nope. I don't think so, anyway. But the FF XI difficulty setting is DEFINITELY not right. They need engaging content, but not content that exludes major portions of the playerbase due to inordinate time investments and/or punishing skill requirements (and by punishing skill requirements, I mean a skill requirement that your average to mediocre player cannot meet before giving up on the game ~ about 10-12 attempts on a given piece of content, from my experience as a raid and guild leader in 4 MMOs' endgames over the past 15 years).

The reality is that the target market for MMOs is older than 5-10 years ago; the people who make the market work are now having kids, careers, and obligations. Any MMO that doesn't cater to that market is dooming itself to failure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Orsnoire

Is the difficulty setting as it stands "just right"? Nope. I don't think so, anyway. But the FF XI difficulty setting is DEFINITELY not right. They need engaging content, but not content that exludes major portions of the playerbase due to inordinate time investments and/or punishing skill requirements (and by punishing skill requirements, I mean a skill requirement that your average to mediocre player cannot meet before giving up on the game ~ about 10-12 attempts on a given piece of content, from my experience as a raid and guild leader in 4 MMOs' endgames over the past 15 years).

The reality is that the target market for MMOs is older than 5-10 years ago; the people who make the market work are now having kids, careers, and obligations. Any MMO that doesn't cater to that market is dooming itself to failure.

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What you said is true, but what he is asking for is tough battles and not stupidly time consuming like FFXI.

FFXI had tough battles, true, but what was bad about them is the pop timer and the competition on them. No one complained about how dynamis is tough, or the Gods in sky. But it was the punishing time waste of waiting for a monster to pop just to not get (or even if you do you get no drop).

There was exceptions like AV and PW, but AV had a trick to kill it which was cool and the other was just pure punishment.

Does this game have tough battle? somewhat. People will argue that Ifrit and Moogle are. Yet some will say they are easy (and mention that you'll come as PGL or MRD and watch them bi#$@. didn't you say it's easy and you can handle it? how come you only do it with one set up? or not try a new one?)

anyways....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

well if you must now im really bored today and killing time till i got home.



i miss snowball, but if they replaced it with /rock it could be funnier.

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Sorry, but if /rock doesn't make my character play air guitar, I will be quite disappointed.