Is it time to rework housing timers?

Especially on bigger, more populated servers.

The timers were designed for a housing crisis, but implemented with small servers in mind. Now that the initial - and the secondary - rush of players moving off of larger servers such as Balmung, is it time to rethink the timer implementation?

Since the arrival of timers, I've noticed an increasing trend of unhealthy behaviours from those on larger servers who are hit worse with this issue. Of course, the option to move servers exists, but server loyalty is a thing so for the sake of discussion, we'll pretend you can't. There is a dedicated discord for housing for several servers, which have gathered an average of when the timers go off, as well as other information, but it still doesn't alleviate the trend; people are camping these spots, not eating, avoiding leaving their computers even for sleep, and risking carpal tunnel and RSI for the sake of having the slim chance of a house. I've also found that this system breeds a lot of resentment towards other players for some, and oftentimes camping a spot with 10 or so other players who have not slept, ate or drank or even stretched their legs will cause for a very unhappy environment.

This is not an issue on smaller servers, because housing spots are open long enough to bypass the random timer. Large communities are camping spots from the second they go up. Relocating is also an issue - it resets the timers entirely, and on Balmung alone the relocation for a 'dream plot' causes many issues. I've seen people go days without sleep just to grab a personal house.

While obviously it is up to personal self to take care of your own health, I think that the timers are actively encouraging awful behaviour on larger servers, and it might be time to look at atleast implementing them differently in the run up to 4.5, especially given that even with incentives, a large portion of players still haven't and likely won't leave these servers in the near future because they value the loyalty and friendships they've made on the server over housing.

My two suggestions: Either A) make the timer a lottery system wherein we can place a downpayment, wait for the timer and hope we get lucky and have the ability to leave the housing district without fear of losing out on an open plot or B) Add a "time until open" timer instead of leaving people unaware so they can have free movement.

Sorry if this subject has been beaten with a stick over and over, but I've been actively trying to get a house for several months now and have been unlucky, and have noticed this increasing, incredibly unhealthy trend of players not doing so well the longer this goes on; I'd love to just hear thoughts on this trend and discussion!

Id like them to just offer the 80% for demo'ing a house at any point.. why make people sit on a dead house for 45 days just cause they want there gil back

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

Id like them to just offer the 80% for demo'ing a house at any point.. why make people sit on a dead house for 45 days just cause they want there gil back

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Unfortunately, with the way the system is now, that's there because otherwise it would make things even easier for house flippers - swoop in, buy the house, and hold it hostage until you get your 50 mil, then 'relinquish' it for the 80% back. While things as they are won't stop housing flippers, they at least make it a little more difficult. Really wish there was some way around it (I myself had to wait for a 45-day demo a while back when I bought a house for a potential new FC and found we didn't have to move after all) but so far nobody's been able to come up with one that would really solve the issue.

It's even worse than that. Timers cut into the profit of house flipping and make it a bit more cumbersome, but ultimately it's pretty easy to get around that if you really want. ESPECIALLY since relocation completely bypasses the invisible timer. Just buy the plot you want to flip, and then as long as you and the person who wants to buy the plot have at least a small house you can just do a dance with relocations to get around the entire point of the timer. Or use dummy FC's, etc.

All this timer is effectively doing is hurting legitimate players, especially on larger servers. I've seen bots camping signs and just spamming clicks, seen people going over twelve hours without breaks trying to just get a CHANCE to MAYBE get a house. And that's the problem; at the end of the day, the timers turn the entire process of getting a house into a literal lottery in these situations. Except it also requires you to be constantly attentive and clicking to stay "entered," or to cheat and use a bot/macro program.

We would, honestly, be better off just dealing with the scalpers than having to deal with this timer. At least then you know when walking up to a plot if you're wasting the next twelve hours of your life over it or not. The fact that anyone ever thought it was a good idea is utterly perplexing, especially given the history the FF MMO's have had with getting in trouble for requiring players to commit absurd blocks of time to things.

TL;DR: Any benefit these timers might have ever given is completely and utterly overshadowed by the negatives they bring. They're harmful and need to be gotten rid of.

The timers cut down on the people who would buy up half a ward and then resell it for an insanely inflated price on a server like Balmung though. Small plots would be going for at least 50 million, I've seen larges offered at 200 million, and that's JUST for the chance to rebuy it. Someone I know actually bought from a flipper, they were there at the placard, exchanged the gil, the flipper relinquished the property, and just as they were about to buy it for themselves, another person ran up and bought it out from under them. I think the random timers need to be decreased, but NOT removed. If they're removed, populated servers go back to the hell they were before, with flippers scalping people out of their hard earned gil. I'd rather deal with a random timer than pay some asshole 50+ million gil PLUS THE PRICE OF THE PLOT AND HOUSE. It may waste my time, but it saves me a crap ton of gil at the end of the day.

Guess you really don't value your free time.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

Guess you really don't value your free time.

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It's either waste time making money that is wasted going to a d*** flipper, that I may or may not get the house anyway, or waste my time clicking on a placard that I may or may not get anyway.

Either way, waste of time is there for a plot that may or may not happen. Might as well save the gil right? If someone runs up and buys the plot out from under you, the flipper has no obligation to give you the gil back, he did his job. He relinquished the plot. What happened after that is not his fault.

If you don't have a plot to relocate from, then that's your own fault for paying someone to relinquish theirs. If someone buys the plot after the person you bought it from relinquishes theirs, that's also your own fault for being too slow and not careful enough. If you think making gil in this game is difficult or even takes time, you clearly do not play this game properly. The game is quite literally throwing money at you, but you're over here telling me you prefer to waste hours/days away, clicking on a virtual chunk of wood.

So you'd rather have someone break ToS and potentially get both of you banned then? Since flipping houses is against this, and there have been cases of accounts being banned for it. I'm not saying do away with the timer, just reduce it. The amount of time it is right now is ridiculous. It's what, anywhere from.... 5 minutes to... over 24 hours or something like that? With an average of 8-14 hours once a plot goes up for sale, at least on Balmung. No, I don't make gil very quickly, but you do not have the right to tell me I do not play the game properly. The point of an MMO is to play a game MY way. MY way is different than yours. Just because I do not have all crafters/gatherers leveled, or spend hours of every day online to do so, does not mean I "do not play this game properly". My SMN could break the Suzaku EX dummy, at release, at i365. I MUST be doing something right.

I presume you do not know that the ToS hasn't been updated since 1.0 came out. I also presume you have no knowledge of what is in the ToS because it makes no mention of anything regarding housing. Players do not get banned for trading houses, they get banned when they don't agree to their end of the deal when trading houses. SE has no incentive in revoking access to players who came to a mutual agreement and if that wasn't the case, there's a certain subreddit that would be plagued with warnings from players who did get banned for simply trading houses.

You do not need crafters to make money. You get tomes, dungeon gear that you can trade in for materials, dungeon minions, potd/hoh rewards, maps, etc.

Unless you've been roleplaying with a lvl 27 lancer for the past 4 years, you should have a couple millions under your belt at the bare minimum.

honestly lots of people have come up with ideas that would help the housing system. even changing the way tenants worked for example.. if they actually made plots shared ownerships instead of the current tenant system you'd find a lot more freed up plots because a lot ofpeople would be more willing to share. the reason they dont is because teneants have no powers and can't even reset the demo timers. so they're not going t oinvest in a property thats tied to another players sub.

I own a medium for example and 3of my friends also own mediums scattered around. all have said there a bit big for one person but smalls are too small. and we cannot share a house because if something happens that causes one of us to be unable to play for a few weeks we'd all risk ending up homeless. if we could actually share the plot and allow any one of us to reset the demo timer or such then there's 3 extra medium plots available for other people on our server. and i know more than a few groups of friends who would be of a similar mindset.

something like this would also fit better into yoshis frequent statement of you can take breaks if you want.. because if the porperty was shared amoung 4 of us and 2 of us took a break for 3 months our home would still be safe when we returned. (assuming at least one of the other 2 were still using it)

a proper and actually viable sharing system would free up a lot of plots for other players

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Originally Posted by Dzian

honestly lots of people have come up with ideas that would help the housing system. even changing the way tenants worked for example.. if they actually made plots shared ownerships instead of the current tenant system you'd find a lot more freed up plots because a lot ofpeople would be more willing to share. the reason they dont is because teneants have no powers and can't even reset the demo timers. so they're not going t oinvest in a property thats tied to another players sub.

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I doubt they would do this, because people could just sell their house to someone directly, have that person move in and then just move out.

They DID in fact come out and say it was against the rules to house flip for the amounts that I have mentioned, and that any player found in violation would be dealt with. It was even discussed here on these very forums, and announced by Yoshi P himself at E3 2016 Live Letter. So apparently you have not been up to date on the news at all. See: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...to-this-thread

I am not broke, but please refrain from saying that I am "playing the game improperly". Please refrain from simply presuming things that you obviously do not know. I did know that they made THAT particular change, when you, apparently, did not.

But, we are getting way off topic, as the discussion was about the timers, not about the flippers who sell them. The timers do stop the flippers. Balmung's housing market, in terms of third party sales, have plummeted way down to almost nothing... THANKS to the timers. They should be reduced, not removed.

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Originally Posted by LuciferMink

They DID in fact come out and say it was against the rules to house flip for the amounts that I have mentioned, and that any player found in violation would be dealt with. It was even discussed here on these very forums, and announced by Yoshi P himself at E3 2016 Live Letter. So apparently you have not been up to date on the news at all. See: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...to-this-thread

I am not broke, but please refrain from saying that I am "playing the game improperly". Please refrain from simply presuming things that you obviously do not know. I did know that they made THAT particular change, when you, apparently, did not.

But, we are getting way off topic, as the discussion was about the timers, not about the flippers who sell them. The timers do stop the flippers. Balmung's housing market, in terms of third party sales, have plummeted way down to almost nothing... THANKS to the timers. They should be reduced, not removed.

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Sorry, but there has never been any actual statement by an employee on these forums, on the lodestone or in the FAQs ingame. You can't take a live translation seriously or an inquiry to one single gm as factual evidence regarding the "legality" of trading houses. Once again, SE has nothing to gain from interfering with people trading houses unless someone gets scammed. If there was an actual change in the rules regarding housing, please show the lodestone page or the part in the ToS where it says so (ps: there isn't).

Btw, house trading is surging on Balmung because of the upcoming datacenter shuffle. If you think this specific timer is preventing anyone from acquiring more than 2 houses on a congested server, there is probably a flower next to your name ingame.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...la=1&kid=68216

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

Sorry, but there has never been any actual statement by an employee on these forums, on the lodestone or in the FAQs ingame. You can't take a live translation seriously or an inquiry to one single gm as factual evidence regarding the "legality" of trading houses. Once again, SE has nothing to gain from interfering with people trading houses unless someone gets scammed. If there was an actual change in the rules regarding housing, please show the lodestone page or the part in the ToS where it says so (ps: there isn't).

Btw, house trading is surging on Balmung because of the upcoming datacenter shuffle. If you think this specific timer is preventing anyone from acquiring more than 2 houses on a congested server, there is probably a flower next to your name ingame.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...la=1&kid=68216

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It seems quite hit and miss. If you're a player selling a plot you no longer want or require to another player the devs geenrally seem ok with that and wont take any action against you.. If however you're buying plots specifically for the purpose of resale or flipping for exuberant sums of money then they do seem to take a stronger stance as that does fall within the definition of disrupting other players gameplay experience..

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Originally Posted by Dzian

It seems quite hit and miss. If you're a player selling a plot you no longer want or require to another player the devs geenrally seem ok with that and wont take any action against you.. If however you're buying plots specifically for the purpose of resale or flipping for exuberant sums of money then they do seem to take a stronger stance as that does fall within the definition of disrupting other players gameplay experience..

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You can't really define what is an exuberant sum of money, other than gil cap and beyond... and even then...

Keep in mind these were the original prices when housing came out:
https://cdn3.dualshockers.com/wp-con...singPrices.jpg

You couldn't really find billionaires back in ARR, unlike now. As far as I'm being concerned, purchasing a small plot on a crowded server for the original price is far from being ripped off. Some people have had those houses since the very beginning.

I've advertised plenty of times in PF over the years and I've yet to have a discussion with a GM regarding my little collection. The only time I got into "trouble" regarding housing was when I was advertising the sale of my neighbors small FC house in early HW for 5 times the retail value. The GM made no comment regarding the advertised price, but he did say I was disturbing my neighbors' experience because of all the /tells he was receiving.

Says the person from Gilgamesh, unless you have characters on Balmung, do not speak of Balmung's economy. I am a member of the housing discord. House trading does happen, no lie there, but not for OVER INFLATED prices (NOTE: small 3.75 plot selling for 50+ mil).

Unless you were grandfathered in, you can only have ONE FC house, and ONE personal, per server, per account. My friend had to leave all his other FCs on his alts to ensure his main's FC got a house, because if you had a character in an FC with a house, the game counted that house as your ONE FC house.


You keep dragging this off topic just to what? Insult me? Troll me? This thread needs to be locked down.

Its an OliverB housing troll thread now unfortunately. There is no reasoning with him when he is master at twisting rules to make them appear to fit his statements.
He reminds me of my first fc master and thats not a compliment.

Threads get a lot more pleasant when you blist people like him, tbh. Nothing he ever says will be worth reading, and you get to skip a lot of nonsense.

But if you do some messages dont make sense, but i guess you are right

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Originally Posted by LuciferMink

Says the person from Gilgamesh, unless you have characters on Balmung, do not speak of Balmung's economy. I am a member of the housing discord. House trading does happen, no lie there, but not for OVER INFLATED prices (NOTE: small 3.75 plot selling for 50+ mil).

Unless you were grandfathered in, you can only have ONE FC house, and ONE personal, per server, per account. My friend had to leave all his other FCs on his alts to ensure his main's FC got a house, because if you had a character in an FC with a house, the game counted that house as your ONE FC house.


You keep dragging this off topic just to what? Insult me? Troll me? This thread needs to be locked down.

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I do have characters on Balmung, not that it matters. You can have 8 FC houses per server since the restriction isn't effective anymore, but you obviously do not know that. This thread doesn't have to be locked because you cannot back up what you've claimed regarding the ToS and housing.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

Its an OliverB housing troll thread now unfortunately. There is no reasoning with him when he is master at twisting rules to make them appear to fit his statements.
He reminds me of my first fc master and thats not a compliment.

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Twisting rules? I've been here for months and no one has been able to show me an actual rule that goes against what me and other players from other servers are doing. There are no rules against owning multiple houses or trading houses. I'm not the person getting all emotional about the topic and saying I'm violating the "spirit of the rules", they are the ones bending the rules to fit their emotions.

WHEN was that changed? As of patch 4.2, the rules are still in place: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ ONE FC and ONE PERSONAL PER ACCOUNT, PER WORLD. Unless it was an official announcement it doesn't count. Your words.

It was backed up, with live letter transcripts, but you have chosen to ignore that. As was my own experiences of witnessing someone get disciplined by buying a house for an inflated price from a flipper (back in HW), but you discount that too. I had a GM explain to ME personally as well that the over-inflation of prices from flippers disrupts others' game experience because instead of putting that money back into the local economy, or some other way, it goes to one person, MOST LIKELY RMT RELATED.

As for locking the thread down, it is because, once again, YOU are off topic again. All to come after me and get a reaction? Why? Do you get your jollies off being a troll? Apparently.

This was supposed to be about the timers, but you still insist on coming after me? I am not against trading houses, please learn to read. I'm against RESELLING AT INFLATED PRICES. Reselling a small plot that sells for 3.5 mil for 50 million is RIDICULOUS. And, please note, i.e read the link, as of RIGHT NOW, it is against the rules to buy multiple homes, if you have figured out a way to do so currently, you have hacked the game. Being grandfathered in PRIOR to patch 4.2 is a different story.

Guys just ignore this Oliver guy. They are just an Attention Seeker hence they may don't get it anywhere else. Blacklist is always a good thing.

Anyway on Topic: After the whole thing with new Wards it was ok. And maybe if they add new Wards as of the new Expansion this might be good too but then IF they would rework on this my recommadation is to atleast lower the Time. People who seek for a House do wait over half their Day only to get it snagged by a Relocation. Therefore shorten it for like let's say 3 or 4 hours max.

Afterall there are still many people who do want a House for themself/Friends/FC in which this could be a tiny little better. ^^)''

EDIT: If this sounds too mean then my apologize to that.

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Originally Posted by LuciferMink

WHEN was that changed? As of patch 4.2, the rules are still in place: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ ONE FC and ONE PERSONAL PER ACCOUNT, PER WORLD. Unless it was an official announcement it doesn't count. Your words.

It was backed up, with live letter transcripts, but you have chosen to ignore that. As was my own experiences of witnessing someone get disciplined by buying a house for an inflated price from a flipper (back in HW), but you discount that too. I had a GM explain to ME personally as well that the over-inflation of prices from flippers disrupts others' game experience because instead of putting that money back into the local economy, or some other way, it goes to one person, MOST LIKELY RMT RELATED.

As for locking the thread down, it is because, once again, YOU are off topic again. All to come after me and get a reaction? Why? Do you get your jollies off being a troll? Apparently.

This was supposed to be about the timers, but you still insist on coming after me? I am not against trading houses, please learn to read. I'm against RESELLING AT INFLATED PRICES. Reselling a small plot that sells for 3.5 mil for 50 million is RIDICULOUS. And, please note, i.e read the link, as of RIGHT NOW, it is against the rules to buy multiple homes, if you have figured out a way to do so currently, you have hacked the game. Being grandfathered in PRIOR to patch 4.2 is a different story.

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It was listed as a temporary change. They never said when it was lifted, but you can now buy FC houses on an account where other characters are in an FC that already owns a house.

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Originally Posted by MizArai

It was listed as a temporary change. They never said when it was lifted, but you can now buy FC houses on an account where other characters are in an FC that already owns a house.

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And yet they're generally good about updating temporary changes on Lodestone when they're no longer in effect. It's doubtful this is any different.

Lack of enforcement does not mean the rule does not still exist. I'm fairly certain that they had to disable the one FC house per account per world rule because it was interfering with the ability of legitimate FCs to obtain houses when their members had alts in different FCs with houses. Perhaps they are waiting while they find other solutions before enforcing the FC house rule again.

Regardless, it's between SE and the players who are continuing to obtain multiple FC houses per world after 4.2. Rather than obsess over something that we aren't in a position to change as players and that just causes drama when repeatedly mentioned in the forums, let's focus on encouraging SE to come up with long term solutions to housing issues.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

And yet they're generally good about updating temporary changes on Lodestone when they're no longer in effect. It's doubtful this is any different.

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In this case the lodestone is out of date. When 4.2 hit and the restrcitions were put in place you could not buy a second FC house, the game wouldn't let you. Now the game lets you. Regardless of what the lodestone says, the devs have expressly enabled the ability for players to do so. This is not an oversight, this is deliberate action by the devs to let players do this. I hardly think that would be the case if it wasn't allowed.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

In this case the lodestone is out of date. When 4.2 hit and the restrcitions were put in place you could not buy a second FC house, the game wouldn't let you. Now the game lets you. Regardless of what the lodestone says, the devs have expressly enabled the ability for players to do so. This is not an oversight, this is deliberate action by the devs to let players do this. I hardly think that would be the case if it wasn't allowed.

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But why was the ability enabled? Was it enabled because they want players to be able to purchase multiple FC houses on their account contrary to the housing information posted or was it enabled because it was the only way to allow legitimate FCs to purchase housing that would have otherwise been prevented by their members having alts in other FCs that already owned houses?

I hope you understand the distinction I'm trying to make here. They might have had to change the programming to allow the intended use that would have otherwise been blocked, and that in turn opened the door to unintended use. That doesn't mean the published rule has been removed or changed.

Until SE posts an official statement regarding the rule, better to assume the published rule is still in place and that any action that violates that rule, regardless of what the game's programming allows, is an exploit and subject to account action at a time of SE's choosing.

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Originally Posted by Luna_Ariana

Guys just ignore this Oliver guy. They are just an Attention Seeker hence they may don't get it anywhere else. Blacklist is always a good thing.

Anyway on Topic: After the whole thing with new Wards it was ok. And maybe if they add new Wards as of the new Expansion this might be good too but then IF they would rework on this my recommadation is to atleast lower the Time. People who seek for a House do wait over half their Day only to get it snagged by a Relocation. Therefore shorten it for like let's say 3 or 4 hours max.

Afterall there are still many people who do want a House for themself/Friends/FC in which this could be a tiny little better. ^^)''

EDIT: If this sounds too mean then my apologize to that.

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4 hours is a little TOO short still, that allows those on the more congested servers to have the issues we faced before. I would say a max of 12 hours. With an average of 4-6 or the plot opening for purchase. On Balmung, the timer has an average of 10-15 hours, out of it's 24+. So, having a forced timer of 12 (force timer like a hunt pop) hours means if the house doesn't go for sale in that time frame of 0-12, it goes at 12. But, it could go anytime in there. 3 to 4 means that some homes that appear during non peak times are snagged up before some people even have a chance, at least with a SLIGHTLY longer time, but shorter than the existing timer, it gives most a fair shot.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But why was the ability enabled? Was it enabled because they want players to be able to purchase multiple FC houses on their account contrary to the housing information posted or was it enabled because it was the only way to allow legitimate FCs to purchase housing that would have otherwise been prevented by their members having alts in other FCs that already owned houses?

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I understand what you're getting at, but what you want isn't there.

Yoshi stated during the live letter and interviews around that time why they were being restrictive and why these rules were being put in place. They wanted people without any access to houses at all to have a fair chance at getting a house. Their reasoning was that players in an FC had access to housing functions even if they weren't the owner of the FC and that would have to be enough; those without a private house or FC house would have priority in buying one. You may not agree with their view at the time but it was effective at achieving their goals.

The reason some of the restrictions were removed is they simply weren't necessary anymore; SE had achieved their goal with it. More players had houses than before, houses weren't as concentrated in such a small group of players and there were houses still empty on many servers indicating the demand for housing had finally been met.

When SE put these restrictions in place they had to create an ownership flag and value at the account level to work with the one at character level to enforce these restrictions. When they removed the restrictions they did not delete that code, they set it to a null value or commented it out so it wasn't in effect. If they wanted to restrict the number of FC houses a person could have on an account they could have set it from 1 to 3 or whatever they thought was fair...but they didn't want to do that. They left it open.

This was not a matter of how much work or time or cost involved, those are all the same between what they did and what this restriction would take. They deliberately chose to not have the restriction and let people own an FC house on each character. SE chose not to regulate it, thats all it is.

You may not like Oliver's decision to buy those houses but the devs gave him the ability to do so, not as an oversight or compromise but as a deliberate action.

Timing wise, when 4.2 went live there was a 2 week window where only FCs could buy new houses(though people with personal houses could still transfer plots). After 2 weeks they opened up new purchases to players again. During those 2 weeks the restrictions in place prevented someone from picking up an extra FC house, after the 2 weeks passed anyone could purchase normally again. On the busier servers those 2 weeks saw a ton of FCs finally get their housing and most(or all) of the plots getting bought up before individuals could make purchases again. On the medium and smaller servers some of those plots have yet to be purchased 11 months later.

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Originally Posted by LuciferMink

WHEN was that changed? As of patch 4.2, the rules are still in place: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ ONE FC and ONE PERSONAL PER ACCOUNT, PER WORLD. Unless it was an official announcement it doesn't count. Your words.

It was backed up, with live letter transcripts, but you have chosen to ignore that. As was my own experiences of witnessing someone get disciplined by buying a house for an inflated price from a flipper (back in HW), but you discount that too. I had a GM explain to ME personally as well that the over-inflation of prices from flippers disrupts others' game experience because instead of putting that money back into the local economy, or some other way, it goes to one person, MOST LIKELY RMT RELATED.

As for locking the thread down, it is because, once again, YOU are off topic again. All to come after me and get a reaction? Why? Do you get your jollies off being a troll? Apparently.

This was supposed to be about the timers, but you still insist on coming after me? I am not against trading houses, please learn to read. I'm against RESELLING AT INFLATED PRICES. Reselling a small plot that sells for 3.5 mil for 50 million is RIDICULOUS. And, please note, i.e read the link, as of RIGHT NOW, it is against the rules to buy multiple homes, if you have figured out a way to do so currently, you have hacked the game. Being grandfathered in PRIOR to patch 4.2 is a different story.

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For one, multiple people have came in here to validate that you can indeed purchase as many FC houses as you desire after the moratorium of 4.2.

Second, I haven't ignored what you said regarding the live letter, I said it wasn't valid because nothing's changed in the FAQs ingame, there's been no announcement on the lodestone and ditto for forums. The amount of things that have been said during the live letters and what ended up happening afterwards isn't that high. You can mention your talk with a GM, but just like my interaction described above, it is trivial at best.

Third, having unpopular opinions doesn't make me a troll. I'm here to set things straight because people like you don't actually know what rules are being enforced or what even is a ToS. Speaking of which, you have failed to provide me absolute proof that what I'm doing is against the rules. You stated that it was against the ToS. I told you the ToS hasn't been updated in nearly 8 years and did not contain anything regarding housing. Funny how you would later put forward a forum post by a member of this community as undeniable evidence.

Fourth, some houses have been acquired during ARR at a premium. Why is it unreasonable to use those prices? Besides, the free market is the best thing you can work with.

Oh and finally, yes, I'm clearly hacking :rolleyes:

Y'know what? Once again, you are ignoring the main point. Let me provide another example before trying this one last time. After this, I'm done with you.

Is it in the ToS that players must only lot on already agreed upon specific savage gear? Nope. Yet I've seen people warned, suspended and banned for ninja lotting. Why? Because it falls under disrupting other players' experience.

So, it is disruptive to other players' game experience to have to shell out a MASSIVE, meaning over 1000% (50/3.75=13.333~ so approximately 1,333%), increase in base price for housing (using a small plot's average price, I do know prices vary). I have seen it enforced. Others have seen it enforced. It was announced in a Live Letter. It was even set as an article IN GAME "Purchasing plots of land for the sole purpose of re-selling them is strictly forbidden, as it prevents other players from fully enjoying the game by liming their access to housing features at the intended price." It is no longer there, that is from a reddit post 4 months old. It has NOT been specifically labeled in the ToS, because to change a ToS requires many weeks, months, if not years of LEGAL counsel and cost. With a multinational game, this requires more work and cost than it's worth to add something such as this. MUCH easier to announce it in a thing like a Live Letter and make note to the GM team so when an issue arises, they have the answers. The ToS, when read, are not specific in ANY way, they are meant to be GUIDELINES, and broad. If they were to micromanage every aspect of this game, we'd have no game, the rules couldn't just include housing, they'd have to include savage lotting, rp etiquette, shout chat, party roles, hell, even about glam outfits. I know that sounds ridiculous, but that is how micromanaging works. They look at EVERY. LITTLE. TINY. DETAIL. No matter HOW ridiculous it is. Yes, while they ARE there in the broad sense, it is up to US the PLAYERS to use OUR judgement as to whether others are breaking the ToS. If someone is selling a house, FC, savage run, Primal run, whatever for an insane amount of gil or real currency, I hope to the powers above they get reported!

I will admit, I did not know they lifted the FC thing, since there was NO announcement, and by others' posts here, I was not the only one. According to the play guide, that rule is still in place, so that is on SE for not updating their information.

Now, once again, since you cannot seem to get it through your head. You have taken this TIMER THREAD 100% OFF TOPIC ONCE AGAIN.

FORUM MODS: THIS THREAD CANNOT STAY ON TOPIC.

But, I am done now, as you obviously cannot grasp the main idea behind my argument, nor stay on topic for this thread, which is not housing prices or ToS, but timers. You also feel the need to insult me in almost every post and reply, and thus have revealed yourself to be the troll that you are. But now, you are blocked. Have a nice day, and find another to troll.

It's not that he can't understand what you're saying, it's that he's a troll that thrives on seeing others get worked up/angry because of him. He wants to "disrupt others' playstyles" because he finds that fun. It's the sole reason he does what he does. Like, I get where you're coming from, I totally agree with you and your arguments would work on somebody who cared about other players, but this is exactly the sort of thing he aims for when he posts. He wants to see people get upset and flustered, it makes him laugh, and he'll say absolutely whatever he needs to get that reaction. This is why I recommend the ignore function; if people stopped responding to him, he wouldn't have nearly as much ammunition. And personally, I think it would be hilarious to see him drop into a thread, post his bait, and be completely ignored while everybody else just continues to discuss whatever topic. (I know you're going to block him anyway, I'm just reminding people that when you feed vermin they continue to come back.)