Any chance that all raids could become relevant in some capacity in the future?

I'm obviously excluding glamour, but something that SWTOR did that I think FFXIV should implement as well is making all normal mode raids offer the same base level, entry raid gear, with the older Savage content offering slightly better gear, and the newest Savage raids offering the BiS gear. The reason I think this would be a good idea is because I really enjoy the raids in this game, and I hate that they don't really get used once the next update comes out. What are the odds that this is something that could be implemented in the future? And aside from whether it could happen, would you like for something like this to happen?

I don't really like this idea. The game just isn't built for that sort of longevity, nor do I think they could pull it off. They have enough problems as it is keeping people interested.

Honestly 7 months is already a lot of running the same old content, I wouldn't want any reason to extend that to 7 more months running the same old content over the new shiny content.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Honestly 7 months is already a lot of running the same old content, I wouldn't want any reason to extend that to 7 more months running the same old content over the new shiny content.

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I think it would be beneficial still, because it would add in a variety. I currently run my alpha raids weekly to get the rewards, but aside from that there is no incentive for me to raid any further. And after however long, eventually running four bosses gets a tad stale. Mix in a legacy raid here and there to spice things up, and it'll become a lot less repetitive. There's not even any reason to run earlier raids from this same expansion.

To be honest: No, I would not like to see that.
Of course I'm in the nice position to have played all raid/savage content when it was relevant (and when I was intrested in it - meaning: I skipped most of Alexander, because it wasnt my cup of tea, but that was my choice, I could have found a static at any time during that raid cycle). But thats excatly why I dont want it to stay relevant til all eterntiy: I want to move on from it, I want new content and new fights to learn.
I loved Coil and I dont mind going back there on occassion - unsyched for Khloe, synched for friends if they want to experience it "the real way".
But I dont want it to be really and actually relevant again. Its done. My casual static spend weeks and months on this content, learning, farming, gearing... I dont wanna have to go back to T13 to get stuff.

Also: Coil and Alex Savage dont compare in difficulty to the current NM at all, you wont be able to do most of them (and surely not the intresting fights like T9, T12 or T13 for Coil and A4/8/12S) in synched DF because thats not how they're meant to be played. So... you'd need a static. To get gear thats worse than what you can get with tomestones, from content that all of you thought you "finally" beat and burried.

I understand the desire to do this content the right way - either again or for the first time. There are some really great and fun fights in it! So go and do it to experience those fights - find like minded people, build the static that you need for this sort of content and do it for the sake of the content itself.
Dont add even more backtracking to this game, its not needed.
I'd rather get some new raid-content, both NM and Savage, than be "forced" to go back to T13.

That content had its time - now is the time for new content to shine!
Sorry if you missed the window, but I can only encourage you to find 7 other people who'd just like to go back and do those fights (again). Its what you'd have to do anyways, wether there are gear rewards at current ilvl or not. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Ventimus

I think it would be beneficial still, because it would add in a variety. I currently run my alpha raids weekly to get the rewards, but aside from that there is no incentive for me to raid any further. And after however long, eventually running four bosses gets a tad stale. Mix in a legacy raid here and there to spice things up, and it'll become a lot less repetitive.

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YOU can mix in other content if you want to play other content.

For Savage raids your main motivation "should" be wanting to see and learn a cool new fight - not gear (its a legit reason to raid though, obviously).
And you wont be able to do Coil and Alexander Savage like you're doing Alpha NM, let me assure you of that...

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Originally Posted by Vidu

To be honest: No, I would not like to see that.
Of course I'm in the nice position to have played all raid/savage content when it was relevant (and when I was intrested in it - meaning: I skipped most of Alexander, because it wasnt my cup of tea, but that was my choice, I could have found a static at any time during that raid cycle). But thats excatly why I dont want it to stay relevant til all eterntiy: I want to move on from it, I want new content and new fights to learn.
I loved Coil and I dont mind going back there on occassion - unsyched for Khloe, synched for friends if they want to experience it "the real way".
But I dont want it to be really and actually relevant again. Its done. My casual static spend weeks and months on this content, learning, farming, gearing... I dont wanna have to go back to T13 to get stuff.

Also: Coil and Alex Savage dont compare in difficulty to the current NM at all, you wont be able to do most of them (and surely not the intresting fights like T9, T12 or T13 for Coil and A4/8/12S) in synched DF because thats not how they're meant to be played. So... you'd need a static. To get gear thats worse than what you can get with tomestones, from content that all of you thought you "finally" beat and burried.

I understand the desire to do this content the right way - either again or for the first time. There are some really great and fun fights in it! So go and do it to experience those fights - find like minded people, build the static that you need for this sort of content and do it for the sake of the content itself.
Dont add even more backtracking to this game, its not needed.
I'd rather get some new raid-content, both NM and Savage, than be "forced" to go back to T13.

That content had its time - now is the time for new content to shine!
Sorry if you missed the window, but I can only encourage you to find 7 other people who'd just like to go back and do those fights (again). Its what you'd have to do anyways, wether there are gear rewards at current ilvl or not. Good luck!

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See that's the thing though, there's no way for them to pump out new raids before the old ones get stale. I wasn't around during the 2.0 raid tier, so a lot of those raids I have never done properly. Good luck to me finding people who want to run through 2.x raid prog the proper way. Why would anyone want to? But, circling back to my point at the beginning, they cannot possibly pump out raids fast enough to keep things fresh all the time. Doing this, and making old raids relevant doesn't force people to do old content if they don't want, but it makes doing so feasible and rewarding if you want.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

YOU can mix in other content if you want to play other content.

For Savage raids your main motivation "should" be wanting to see and learn a cool new fight - not gear (its a legit reason to raid though, obviously).
And you wont be able to do Coil and Alexander Savage like you're doing Alpha NM, let me assure you of that...

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You cannot do group content on your own. And there is no reason for others to want to do the content, especially if they've already done it before. That's the point. There is tons of great content in the game, and no reason at all to do any of it. How can you be against giving incentive to do older content?

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Originally Posted by Ventimus

See that's the thing though, there's no way for them to pump out new raids before the old ones get stale. I wasn't around during the 2.0 raid tier, so a lot of those raids I have never done properly. Good luck to me finding people who want to run through 2.x raid prog the proper way. Why would anyone want to? But, circling back to my point at the beginning, they cannot possibly pump out raids fast enough to keep things fresh all the time. Doing this, and making old raids relevant doesn't force people to do old content if they don't want, but it makes doing so feasible and rewarding if you want.

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Why do YOU want to do the raids the proper way? Answer that question and you know why other people might wanna do the same - you're not so special and alone in your wish to do the content properly.
Is it difficult and annoying to find people for that?
Yes. Yes, it is.
But thats the same for new raid-content. Slightly easier, but still annoying and a lot of work.
Organising 8 people is never easy - and thats what you need to do for Savage and Coil synched (and if you wanna do it properly: at minimum ilvl... and actually without all the new jobs.)
Coil and Alex Savage arent an alternative to Alpha NM, there on different scales of the difficulty level. You're not queuing up for T12 and clear it with one wipe in 20 minutes.

Also: All the Coils are part of Khloes books now, so there is a reason to go back and do them.

The whole "they cant make enough content"-argument is actually part of the reason I dont want this. I dont want them to point to Coil, Alexander Savage and Omega Savage in 5.0 and tell us: "Here! There are aaaaall those raids for you to do! We can delay the ones for this expansion, right? And two tiers are enough aswell, right? You got so many raids to do already!"
No. The old raids need to die to make room for the new ones.
If you and your static get bored between raid-tiers, you can always go back and catch up on Coil now - just for the fun.

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Originally Posted by Ventimus

You cannot do group content on your own. And there is no reason for others to want to do the content, especially if they've already done it before. That's the point. There is tons of great content in the game, and no reason at all to do any of it. How can you be against giving incentive to do older content?

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I answered that question in the post above, I hope.

And now, you cant do group content on your own. But since you mentioned Alpha NM and wanting to spice that up, let me repeat: You cant do this content in DF either. You need a static for that. And for a static the incentive might very well be to enjoy the content and each others company. I get that extra gear would be and additional reward and might make it easier to find people, but I'm not sure if you're aware of the fact that you'd still need to find those people by yourself, make a schedulde, have everyone show up at raidtimes... and not only queue up with the DF.
And since you need a static, you're back at the same problem: If current Savage gives you better gear than old Coil - why isnt your static running that for the actual good stuff?

Current NM is casual DF content and offers rewards that reflect that.
You're lumping Coil and Alexander Savage in with that, when its not. Its content that - for the most parts - requires a static when you wanna do it properly. And if you already went through the trouble of getting a static, might aswell do the new stuff.

...so you're back at square one, with no one doing Coil and Alexander Savage.
Unless they want to to see the fights itself.

"Why do YOU want to do the raids the proper way? Answer that question and you know why other people might wanna do the same - you're not so special and alone in your wish to do the content properly.
Is it difficult and annoying to find people for that?
Yes. Yes, it is."

That first part is all the reasoning I need in wanting this. It shouldn't be difficult and annoying to find others wanting to do content that they already pay for. I'm a rather hardcore MMO raider, newer to FFXIV but not to raiding. I've managed large guilds and large 16M raid teams for harder level content, and I've never had any sort of difficulty organizing people to clear content through progression. I respect that people want the focus to be on the new raids, hence why I suggested the newer content still provide better rewards than older content. I'm perfectly aware that I'm not going to get people together to do Savage progression for old raids. And I don't like that. Again, how can giving other people incentive to do older content and be rewarded for it be anything but good for the health of the game? Would you do it? No? I know that plenty of players who are new to Eorzea such as myself may very much want to experience old content properly scaled and providing some sort of reward upon successful progression.

And also, they would know better than to think that allowing us to do older content is a reason not to provide newer content. You're telling me you're fine with farming four bosses for a quarter of a year, and then never touching them again? Making older content rewarding for players to fill their time with is nothing but a positive in my eyes, and I fail to see how you could think otherwise and not due to lack of trying. I'm trying to understand what your line of thought it, but I'm not getting anywhere. It is NOT difficult to just scale rewards from older raids, so it wouldn't exactly eat up development time or anything. And it would allow players like myself to properly enjoy the work that Square Enix has provided.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

I answered that question in the post above, I hope.

And now, you cant do group content on your own. But since you mentioned Alpha NM and wanting to spice that up, let me repeat: You cant do this content in DF either. You need a static for that. And for a static the incentive might very well be to enjoy the content and each others company. I get that extra gear would be and additional reward and might make it easier to find people, but I'm not sure if you're aware of the fact that you'd still need to find those people by yourself, make a schedulde, have everyone show up at raidtimes... and not only queue up with the DF.
And since you need a static, you're back at the same problem: If current Savage gives you better gear than old Coil - why isnt your static running that for the actual good stuff?

Current NM is casual DF content and offers rewards that reflect that.
You're lumping Coil and Alexander Savage in with that, when its not. Its content that - for the most parts - requires a static when you wanna do it properly. And if you already went through the trouble of getting a static, might aswell do the new stuff.

...so you're back at square one, with no one doing Coil and Alexander Savage.
Unless they want to to see the fights itself.

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Okay, I'm not sure where your assumption comes that I don't want or think it should require a static. I never said that, and more content for statics to form for is also a good thing. For example, in SWTOR NiM raids still require raid teams, they just provide relevant gear and are properly scaled to level cap. Why would anyone want to be on a static doing old content just for poops and giggles? There is no incentive for players to do old content, and I hate to say it but in MMO's unrewarding content is content that doesn't get played.

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Originally Posted by Ventimus

That first part is all the reasoning I need in wanting this. It shouldn't be difficult and annoying to find others wanting to do content that they already pay for. I'm a rather hardcore MMO raider, newer to FFXIV but not to raiding. I've managed large guilds and large 16M raid teams for harder level content, and I've never had any sort of difficulty organizing people to clear content through progression. I respect that people want the focus to be on the new raids, hence why I suggested the newer content still provide better rewards than older content. I'm perfectly aware that I'm not going to get people together to do Savage progression for old raids. And I don't like that. Again, how can giving other people incentive to do older content and be rewarded for it be anything but good for the health of the game? Would you do it? No? I know that plenty of players who are new to Eorzea such as myself may very much want to experience old content properly scaled and providing some sort of reward upon successful progression.

And also, they would know better than to think that allowing us to do older content is a reason not to provide newer content. You're telling me you're fine with farming four bosses for a quarter of a year, and then never touching them again? Making older content rewarding for players to fill their time with is nothing but a positive in my eyes, and I fail to see how you could think otherwise and not due to lack of trying. I'm trying to understand what your line of thought it, but I'm not getting anywhere. It is NOT difficult to just scale rewards from older raids, so it wouldn't exactly eat up development time or anything. And it would allow players like myself to properly enjoy the work that Square Enix has provided.

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Funny how you asked wether or not other people would like to see this aswell and now dont like to hear the answer "No, I dont."

Since you're new, you missed the backtracking-marathon that were the ARR and HW relics - grats on that! - but that pretty much made me not want to see any more backtracking.

I'm telling you I'm fine with this old content not offering any rewards beside the content itself - maybe the problem here is that I dont raid to raise my ilvl, but because I enjoy the fights and challenges (and the glamour - more than the ilvl) and I dont want to be "forced" to go back to do content that my static learned and cleared 3 years ago instead of spending half a year with 4 bosses that are at least new content.
And dont tell me "You dont have to, if you dont want to!" - because that means that the rewards arent worth it.

Lets take the current ilvl and gear as an example!
Lets say they add new Coil-gear at an ilvl of 360 (First Coil), 370 (Second Coil) and 380 (Final Coil), with a weekly lockout.
Would that be a true incentive for people to do this content?
I dont think so - there are easier ways to get gear of that ilvl; specially with the only really intresting one being 380, locked behind Final Coil - which in no way compares to the difficulty of Alpha NM when done synched. I know you havent done it. But trust me: It. doesnt. compare. You wont be able to clear it in DF. I tried. Just for fun. Got in, didnt even managed to survive the first minute of the fight.
So you'd need a static to get... 380 gear? That you can craft or buy of the market board or get from Eureka?

I'm "against" this because I'm trying to tell you that it doesnt/wouldnt work. And because I want to see less backtracking and more new content.

...and if "many people" want to experience this content properly, then it shouldnt be that hard to find like minded people, right?
Let me tell you something: During a content drought last year - between raidcycles - my static went back and cleared some Coil at minimum ilvl. We're also doing that on occassion with people who are new to the game, joined the FC and would now like to do it properly. We recently went back to get dyeable tank-coats from A8S for a friend and myself.
Maybe I'm lucky with my FC/friends/static, but I'm very much convinced that this is a question of finding the right people - not the right rewards. I like that this is content that I can go back to when I feel like it (...I just blackmail my static...) instead of content that I have to do yet again for half a year, every week.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Funny how you asked wether or not other people would like to see this aswell and now dont like to hear the answer "No, I dont."

Since you're new, you missed the backtracking-marathon that were the ARR and HW relics - grats on that! - but that pretty much made me not want to see any more backtracking.

I'm telling you I'm fine with this old content not offering any rewards beside the content itself - maybe the problem here is that I dont raid to raise my ilvl, but because I enjoy the fights and challenges (and the glamour - more than the ilvl) and I dont want to be "forced" to go back to do content that my static learned and cleared 3 years ago instead of spending half a year with 4 bosses that are at least new content.
And dont tell me "You dont have to, if you dont want to!" - because that means that the rewards arent worth it.

I'm "against" this because I'm trying to tell you that it doesnt/wouldnt work. And because I want to see less backtracking and more new content.

...and if "many people" want to experience this content properly, then it shouldnt be that hard to find like minded people, right?
Let me tell you something: During a content drought last year - between raidcycles - my static went back and cleared some Coil at minimum ilvl. We're also doing that on occassion with people who are new to the game, joined the FC and would now like to do it properly. We recently went back to get dyeable tank-coats from A8S for a friend and myself.
Maybe I'm lucky with my FC/friends/static, but I'm very much convinced that this is a question of finding the right people - not the right rewards. I like that this is content that I can go back to when I feel like it (...I just blackmail my static...) instead of content that I have to do yet again for half a year, every week.

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Mainly because your reasoning as to why you don't want to see it is inadequate, and mostly based on your lack of faith in the developers ability to handle it. So, yeah, I don't like that answer.

And I've told you already, I'm not asking for content to be doable in DF. I could care less. More content for statics IS GOOD for the health of MMOs. I've explained to you that doing this properly doesn't take away development time, it's as simple as adjusting numbers.

And I've also told you that content that is not rewarding doesn't get done. I'm not sure what is so difficult about this concept to grasp. Basically, the way this is coming across is that you don't want it because you've already done it. So screw all the newcomers, shoulda been here sooner? I don't like that stance either, quite frankly. I don't know about how much experience you have in MMOs, but its quite literally the same in all of them. Content that is not rewarding gets ignored, period. And the fact of the matter is, that regardless of how fun or interesting a fight may be, if there's no reward for the effort then people won't try.

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Originally Posted by Ventimus

Mainly because your reasoning as to why you don't want to see it is inadequate, and mostly based on your lack of faith in the developers ability to handle it. So, yeah, I don't like that answer.

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It is adequate to me and I tried to explain to you why.
Probably should have stuck with "No, I would not like to see this" without further reasons - would have been enough of an answer to your original questions, even if its not an answer you like.

I'd prefer the Dev's focus to be on the future, not the past.

Well, heated discussion aside, I don't think it would hurt the game to offer semi-relevant rewards for completing old content. I actually wanted to run through the old coils on my alt (I was going to solo as many as I could) but couldn't get passed getting gaol'd while trying to solo Titan HM lol.

I think they tried to make the older stuff accessible via raid roulettes, but as Vidu points out the old coils are not equal to new normal modes, and old savages aren't on the same level as current savages. I do think Vidu is jumping the gun a bit, I didn't get any impression that it would "force" people into completing old content for current rewards, just a little incentive to make it not so hard to find people willing to do it.

It'd also be a boon to newer players. When I was leveling up my alt there came a point where I couldn't even complete the story without farming dungeons for crap gear, so I just stopped playing it for a while. If the old raids gave, let's say tokens (make it easy and just be the same token for any raid cleared), to exchange for "entry level gear" (what's entry for Alpha NM, 350?) to help gear up along the way it'd totally be worth it. Get gear for alt characters/jobs/new players/etc and keep the old content populated.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I'd prefer the Dev's focus to be on the future, not the past.

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Scaling the fights and giving a different drop isn't exactly pulling away the developers focus, though. But whatever, it seems that nobody else cares about giving incentives to doing old content; which is fine, the new content is good. I'd just like to be able to properly experience the content that was before my time in this game.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Well, heated discussion aside, I don't think it would hurt the game to offer semi-relevant rewards for completing old content. I actually wanted to run through the old coils on my alt (I was going to solo as many as I could) but couldn't get passed getting gaol'd while trying to solo Titan HM lol.

I think they tried to make the older stuff accessible via raid roulettes, but as Vidu points out the old coils are not equal to new normal modes, and old savages aren't on the same level as current savages. I do think Vidu is jumping the gun a bit, I didn't get any impression that it would "force" people into completing old content for current rewards, just a little incentive to make it not so hard to find people willing to do it.

It'd also be a boon to newer players. When I was leveling up my alt there came a point where I couldn't even complete the story without farming dungeons for crap gear, so I just stopped playing it for a while. If the old raids gave, let's say tokens (make it easy and just be the same token for any raid cleared), to exchange for "entry level gear" (what's entry for Alpha NM, 350?) to help gear up along the way it'd totally be worth it. Get gear for alt characters/jobs/new players/etc and keep the old content populated.

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Yeah, it was not my intention to suggest that the old content be forced down players throats. I am sure that there are plenty of people who may have certain bosses that they never want to see again, as I know that I do from other games. But it'd certainly be cool to be able to put together a group and work on some of the older stuff that was before my time ingame and be able to possibly use the progression of the older stuff as filler between raid tiers. That may not be something that everyone is interested in, but I'd wager if it was implemented that there'd be some players choosing to work on older stuff.

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Originally Posted by Ventimus

I'm obviously excluding glamour, but something that SWTOR did that I think FFXIV should implement as well is making all normal mode raids offer the same base level, entry raid gear, with the older Savage content offering slightly better gear, and the newest Savage raids offering the BiS gear. The reason I think this would be a good idea is because I really enjoy the raids in this game, and I hate that they don't really get used once the next update comes out. What are the odds that this is something that could be implemented in the future? And aside from whether it could happen, would you like for something like this to happen?

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Well, Deltascape and Sigmascape Savage are actually still relevant for people looking to get gear for Unending Coil and Weapon's Refrain, respectively.

Would I like it to happen...I dunno. On the one hand, I'd like for more players to have more reasons to go back and do old Savage content. On the other hand, I don't want to end up in a situation similar to WoW's where you need to raid a bunch of different tiers to get relevant gear to the current tier (secondhand account). I think having the mount at the end of the Savage tier is the best incentive; perhaps reinstate the need to at least accomplish prior Savage floors once to unlock the next floor permanently? I dunno.

I've always remained a big advocate of the EverQuest model of raid/gear progression.

You had FOUR separate lines of progression, essentially.

Farmable
First is normal gear that you would acquire through killing rare monsters in the overworld and dungeons, as well as gear from the majority of crafting recipes, was on one level, designed to be enough to play the game effectively and break into raiding at low tier/older raid zones. Some of these items were extremely desirable despite the fact that they did not come from raids, as they were great enablers, could last for a long time, and could be traded. Absolutely anyone could acquire these, either by camping and killing the monsters that dropped them (also used as a good source of experience), or by saving up and purchasing them.
Defining Characteristics
- Strong HP/MP OR decent attributes OR decent resists: You have to pick and choose to patch holes
- Proc (on-hit) effects and passive (when worn) effects that differentiate these items from mundane pieces and provide a leg-up but don't typically alter how you play


Quests
Then you've got the tier of items that you can get with some effort, but not designed to be impossibly challenging, at least after they're not brand new. Admittedly, some are harder than others and some seem almost unfairly easy. These come from long quest chains typically, and also include each class's "epic" weapon, similar to an XIV relic. Some of these items have unique effects that, even if you didn't wear them into combat 24/7, you wanted to have around.
Defining Characteristics
- Usually 2 out of 3 strong HP/MP, attributes, and/or resists
- Unique effects that could be powerful procs, strong worn effects that you can't get from anything else, and "clicky" effects that allow you to cast a spell that you wouldn't normally have access to, or without a mana cost


Entry Raids
In the middle, we have low end raid gear. These are targets that were specifically put into the game to be stepping stones to high end raids if you needed to do some catching up, weren't capable of or interested in competing with uberguilds, or just wanted to raid with a more casual approach.
Defining Characteristics
- Fairly comparable stats to those quest rewards but without unique effects


Endgame Raids
Then we have high end raid gear. This was a lot of work to get. Depending on the era of the game, you could be looking at getting together 20-72 people to take down raid bosses, and if you wanted to kill the latest and greatest, you had to compete with other guilds hunting the same monsters, which would have typically 3-7 day respawn timers.
Defining Characteristics
- High HP/MP, High Attributes, Lots of resists
- Occasional unique effects of all varieties, sometimes so powerful they enable builds


Now what makes all this interesting? These 4 tiers (except 2 and 3 are pretty close) are VERY different from each other. One of those entry level farmable items may have a bunch of resists and you may wear it just so you don't fall flat on your face to every unavoidable AoE if you start trying to raid. But it's always lacking something. You probably wouldn't wear such a resist piece for small group leveling and farming, because you need stats more than you need to hit raw resist values for that. What happens when an expansion comes out? How does a casual/non-raiding player upgrade their gear? They get the next piece that has more stats than this one! But it STILL can't compete with raid gear. I think on average we were looking at about 4 expansions passing by the time non-raid gear had pretty much caught up.

Those quest and entry level raid items? I had those in my bags for years and years because they did unique things. I had a wand that allowed me to make enemies forget they had aggro on me. The Cleric Epic was not only a rite of passage (it was one of the harder ones) but it let you rez people for free. No mana! That was huge.

And the high end raid items are the same progression treadmill we're all in today, but you can't just skip an entire expansion's worth of content by buying a set of crafted gear and slam yourself into the latest and hardest raids. Instead, you actually PROGRESS through the backlog of content. Maybe not all the way to year 0, but all of that content is valuable to you at some point in time. It doesn't come with an expiration date due to an item level reset every other minor patch. If you didn't want to farm and farm and farm the old high end raids until you had every drop under the sun, you could augment with entry level raids from the current expansion as well as the occasional crafted or quest piece, but you were still doing those old raids to get baseline stats that let you keep progressing in the newer and newer high end raids.

"Butbutbut what if I want to play with my friends and they're already super geared and years ahead of me?"
Raids weren't restricted to such a small number of people that you couldn't be brought along for the company and the occasional benefits you'd provide even under-geared. Not that different from how normal modes and EX primals are today. You won't clear if everyone is undergeared, but if a handful of your 40 people are, you'll be just fine.

We already get gear for doing old content via tombstones... It's fine as is. Making the drops from the old content relevant for current content would just make it easy for SE to say hey, this stuff is still good to go, we don't need to make more. In turn well let's be honest, the fights would get old even faster and everything would just be on farm status. At that point why raid?

If FFXIV is going into maintenance mode and they aren't developing it in earnest anymore, sure. Otherwise, no.

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Originally Posted by Ventimus

Scaling the fights and giving a different drop isn't exactly pulling away the developers focus, though. But whatever, it seems that nobody else cares about giving incentives to doing old content; which is fine, the new content is good. I'd just like to be able to properly experience the content that was before my time in this game.

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The tuning is actually a lot of work when you're talking about old content that was balanced with a different set of job skills than are available now. You won't get the "pristine" experience since a lot of skills got culled/added and rotations have been changed since ARR/HW. I don't think they could do it since they can't even give us a third difficulty for current raids, which is basically just content tuning for a 3rd difficulty.

They could add like a WT book thing but require min ilvl option to complete stamps or something instead of the normal book which people faceroll unsync and put some rewards. That doesn't seem like it would be that much work in comparison and it would be completely optional.

The only thing they said they were thinking of retuning are the Ultimate fights to preserve the difficulty/status.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

We already get gear for doing old content via tombstones... It's fine as is. Making the drops from the old content relevant for current content would just make it easy for SE to say hey, this stuff is still good to go, we don't need to make more. In turn well let's be honest, the fights would get old even faster and everything would just be on farm status. At that point why raid?

If FFXIV is going into maintenance mode and they aren't developing it in earnest anymore, sure. Otherwise, no.

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Yeah but you don't have to raid to get tomestones. You can't really call that incentive for old content. Dungeons, perhaps. But not the raids. Also, that's insulting to the developers, and I strongly disagree. I have a bit more faith that SE would not attempt to use the old content as reason not to make new content.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

The tuning is actually a lot of work when you're talking about old content that was balanced with a different set of job skills than are available now. You won't get the "pristine" experience since a lot of skills got culled/added and rotations have been changed since ARR/HW. I don't think they could do it since they can't even give us a third difficulty for current raids, which is basically just content tuning for a 3rd difficulty.

They could add like a WT book thing but require min ilvl option to complete stamps or something instead of the normal book which people faceroll unsync and put some rewards. That doesn't seem like it would be that much work in comparison and it would be completely optional.

The only thing they said they were thinking of retuning are the Ultimate fights to preserve the difficulty/status.

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Sure, it'd be some work. But it'd be more of a one-time investment that if done right, could make it a more seamless transition in the future. More content providing rewards can never be a bad thing, in my opinion. As long as the hardest and newest content provide the best rewards, that is.

You could probably fix them up into a sort of "extreme" content for midcore players to bridge the gap between easy mode and Savage. Give people more to do than whacking the primal of the patch. It would have been a better use of the odd patches than Eureka at least