Just a random thought on WHM Asylum

Asylum would be interesting if the Bubble restored 50% of any party members health instantly once they entered the field. Each party member could choose when to heal themselves with it and it wouldn't constrain everyone's movement so much. The healing potency would be a lot less impactful compared to the original regen ticks but this could be countered by allowing the bubble to increase the healing potency of spell based magic like Fey Illumination does as long as the target is within the effect. Then it would be beneficial for the Tank or party for it's entire duration and could be used to bolster shields from a cohealer as well. You could top up the party by dropping it before a stack mechanic and then heal more effectively through the blast. It just has so much potential to be more impactful than jailing the party in a high movement fight.

Let's admit Asylum works as your suggesting :

Then if I want to use Asylum with that effects, that means I want my party to get that strong heal, right now, not "when they want to eventually pass through it"
In raid situation sure, that could be great (with a static or smart pug group), but otherwise on any other content, that would be frustrating, because of that brd wandering around in the arena avoiding your heal as much as possible.
Besides, that pretty much be a mimic earthly star but with a worst effect. I'm explaining : You have 20s to denotate earthly star, while your idea would be to let the player get the heal once they entered the field. Which also mean that if I want to prepare it for another mechanic, I'd also have to be sure no one will enter it before (or bad tick could trick us as well)
Something isn't working with that.
I know detonating ground healing aoe exists in other MMO, but it looks like it wouldn't work so well in FFXIV.

Im not sure how the heal waiting for a Bard to pass through it is a bad thing? Since most of the benefit is immediate it could be used like Indomitability and Assize instead of Earthly Star. You place it after damage on the group to restore health with the added benefit of anyone out of range being able to run into the field later and still get the heal which is more flexible than being outside of Earthlystar when it detonates. It seems more inclined to be useful for wandering dps than detrimental. Even if they dont see it for the first half of its duration they can still get a large reward for finally making it in. A DPS who has just revived can still catch the effect too.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

Im not sure how the heal waiting for a Bard to pass through it is a bad thing?

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The BRD should just be near the party to begin with, unless specifically engaged in handling a mechanic that requires being elsewhere. Nobody needs to be so far away from the party that they don't get the effect of an appropriately located bubble ability.

I like the idea but I feel the 50% HP heal would be a bit powerful unless there was a limitation to how many times the effect could be applied. If I'm interpreting your thoughts properly (and correct me if I'm wrong), it sounds like it'd be a 50% heal per tick which essentially means the tank is unkillable if it stays within the asylum for the entire duration (so, 50% heal every 3 seconds for 24 seconds is 400% of the targets health in that duration).

As an alternative, once a party member receives the effect, they get a debuff that lasts as long as the duration of the Asylum effect that prevents them from getting another 50% health pop off.

I can't check what the regen ticks are like at this juncture but given DPS and healers should be around 50K HP for final Omega, I'm sort of inclined to make Asylum ticks to be somewhere in the range of 10-15% HP instead which is a 5K-7.5K heal. At 12.5% per tick that would fully heal anyone as long as they stay inside the bubble for the entire duration of the Asylum.

As another alternative to "fixing Asylum", making it like apply a HoT buff like CU would work as well. The HoT buff can also be renewed by going into the circle before it disappears. This would give Asylum a lot more flexibility for movement mechanics as long as players are prebuffed prior to doing the mechanic and still have time to get back into the Asylum to refresh their HoT after the mechanics are resolved. Assuming the HoT buff is as long as the Asylum duration, that's about 1,600 potency worth of healing in a single oGCD. It could probably use some adjustments but it's a start too.

Asylum is fine as-is.

How about we stop trying to make the game too easy?

I don't think anyone is trying to make the game too easy, but more help out WHM who is suffering alot when it comes raids and job identity etc. The devs could make the game very easy and there would still be balancing issues and unfavourable jobs, it's just one of those things.

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

Asylum is fine as-is.

How about we stop trying to make the game too easy?

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It's nothing about making the game easier. It's about giving WHM some abilities that feel even half as powerful as Indom or Collective Unconscious. WHM is so outdated.

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Asylum is fine as-is.
How about we stop trying to make the game too easy?

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Who said anything about ease? Asylum is fine as is? As someone who has recently levelled my AST -- not out of hate for the WHM by the way, that will always be my No.1 -- tell me how Asylum can compete with an Astro who does a drive-by Collective Unconscious? Asylum is only fine 'as is' if the other Healers didn't exist and people are in a position to stand in it for its entirety, whereas an AST can waltz on by, press a button and achieve same/similar with far less mobility/placement concerns and don't have to stand in it for anything other than to receive its initial effect.

As a WHM, the only time I'd even use Asylum is in the few moments where stacking is required (and CureIII remains overkill), to which you'll get a few ticks before everyone wanders off, or in Dungeons when a tank is multipulling, to which dunking an Asylum on them (and only them) is barely worth it, yet just adds to the Regen tick while I fail at doing as much damage as the other healer-alternatives.

Nobody is asking for game-ease. They most certainly ARE noticing that WHM right now is so far behind the other healers that it needs to be battered over the head with the dev-wrench just to compare, nevermind compete.

I'd disagree that WHM is lagging behind at all. Though I can certainly agree that drive-by Collective Unconscious is kind of ridiculous. I love that they provided the buff immediately of course, but they should maybe nerf the duration so that you actually need to keep the shield up to get a longer Regen effect.

Meh just give it a 3-5% damage mitigation while standing inside it

Because of changes to ground AoEs last patch and how they work now, Asylym already instantly restores HP when put down (even though it's the usual tick amount)

Sorry about being unclear. My version of Asylum would have no regen effect of it's own. It would only provide a 50% burst heal the first time a party member encounters the AoE and give them a slight increase on spell based healing received while they are in the effect area. It would basically be a second more powerful Assize on a longer cool down that increases your healing potency instead of dealing damage and restoring MP. I would love if all healers had party damage mitigation but I just don't get the feeling they will ever give this kind of tool to the WHM based on it's history. Stoneskin 2 couldn't be used in battle as a reference and it didn't make much impact in the first 30 seconds of any difficult fight.

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Originally Posted by RulerOfPotaoes

Meh just give it a 3-5% damage mitigation while standing inside it

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Personally I think Asylum is fine as is, but if I were trying to fix it, something as insignificant as 5% aoe mitigation would do nothing.

It's about time WHM has some real utility for the raid, why not give a sks/sps buff while inside, or even a kind of damage buff. Maybe even a TP/MP regen, there's a couple things you can do to make Asylum a bit more stronger.
If our cooldowns were way stronger, perhaps time reduction on Lilies would feel a lot better, because as it is I couldn't care less about getting Asylum and Assize a few seconds faster.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

I'd disagree that WHM is lagging behind at all.

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Lowest number of alphascape clears (not just the final fight anymore). Lowest DPS. AST meanwhile can solo heal ultimate.

Yep, WHM isn't lagging behind...

I don't think buffing Asylum is the right idea, though.

The way I read it was 50% HP regained upon moving in, as part of the first instant tick. Which is...no.

Really I think the best way to boost Asylum is to give it the CU treatment of applying a HoT buff in addition to the field HoT. I wouldn't apply any healing from the HoT buff on the instant tick upon entering (the field buff could still do that) but still refresh its duration by doing so. I'd reduce the field potency to compensate so that standing in it keeps it where it is when factoring in both the field HoT and the buff HoT. It heals a lot as is, but the main reason the skill isn't as good as it could be is the fact it doesn't tick on you unless you're inside it for the whole duration. If you could get partial value out of it just for moving in and out or even being able to refresh the HoT before the field disappeared it would be far better.

Not sure how practical it would be, but what if Asylum reversed and increased the time limit of any party member's Confession for every second they are in the bubble. So essentially you could get up to an extra 24secs on top of the base Confession timer which means the WHM has a bigger window to throw out Plenary Indulgence later in the fight. Ok the timer could be much less and would need a lot of balancing to prevent abuse but could that compete with Indom and ES or would it be too OP?

The problem of Asylum as discussed in this thread would be positionning in Extreme / Savage content. Mind me, Earthly Star is similar buf you don't have to stand in it for the whole duration of the effect, just like Collective Unconscious can now be popped as an oGCD and give a roughly 5sec shield to people around.
To get the proper effect of asylum, you need to stand in it, for up to 24 seconds. If you have a prey marker, a tower to take, a bump to prepare, a link to take/give, an AOE to avoid, then you are losing from the full potency of it.

Asylum as it is now is ok for dungeons, for Main Tank extra regen in all content, and it is risky as a raid regen for the same reasons I just listed (where a Medica II / Individual Regen / Fairy regen will do the same for less positioning requirements. It is a MP economy for the WHM but we know that MP is not so much of a problem for WHM with the current kit.

I'd rather have something similar to AST where you pass in the Asylum, get a regen buff and then move out as you wish, maybe have it reset if you go back in (but that is a bit tricky to handle with server ticks), as other people have said before

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Lowest number of alphascape clears (not just the final fight anymore). Lowest DPS. AST meanwhile can solo heal ultimate.

Yep, WHM isn't lagging behind...

I don't think buffing Asylum is the right idea, though.

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DPS is not a particularly good way to judge if a healer is strong or weak. Yes, DPS is important. But judge healer classes first and foremost on their ability to heal,

And in that respect, WHM is not lagging that much. WHM can solo heal Omega (Savage). It's quite likely that it can solo heal Ultimate as well, though that is simply conjecture on my part at the moment.

The real issue facing Asylum right now is not how strong or weak it is. It's the fact that you can't see it if you have allied effects set to "Limited". People stand in Earthly Star more than Asylum for a simple reason: they can see it.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

The problem of Asylum as discussed in this thread would be positionning in Extreme / Savage content. Mind me, Earthly Star is similar buf you don't have to stand in it for the whole duration of the effect, just like Collective Unconscious can now be popped as an oGCD and give a roughly 5sec shield to people around.
To get the proper effect of asylum, you need to stand in it, for up to 24 seconds. If you have a prey marker, a tower to take, a bump to prepare, a link to take/give, an AOE to avoid, then you are losing from the full potency of it.

Asylum as it is now is ok for dungeons, for Main Tank extra regen in all content, and it is risky as a raid regen for the same reasons I just listed (where a Medica II / Individual Regen / Fairy regen will do the same for less positioning requirements. It is a MP economy for the WHM but we know that MP is not so much of a problem for WHM with the current kit.

I'd rather have something similar to AST where you pass in the Asylum, get a regen buff and then move out as you wish, maybe have it reset if you go back in (but that is a bit tricky to handle with server ticks), as other people have said before

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I wouldn't be against having the buff have a shorter duration, but reset, kind of like AST shield. It is very much usable as is, though. The trouble is that it's not so usable by disorganized pugs. It is exceptionally useful on Panto 1 and 2. Except the pug strat for Panto 1 and 2 is generally executed in such a way that it looks like players are running around like chickens with their heads cut off. People run 10y away from the boss to eat their laser, instead of running the minimum distance necessary to stay alive. Likewise, people seem to believe they have to be on Midgardsormr's hitbox line to bait Crimson Breath. The amount of optimization lost on this is insane. People waste at least 2-3 GCDs each running Bulwark and Bait for no reason except lack of trust (or in some cases no reason at all). You can do the entirety of Panto 1/2 and Bulwark inside a WHM's Asylum. Hell, you can do it inside a BLM's Ley Lines for crying out loud. But people don't do it. Because they're averse to learning how to position more precisely. Here are some diagrams I have posted on my static strategy page that show this:

This image shows how to abuse what most people forget. Cones are smaller the closer you get to the boss. This has a plethora of other uses, by the way. Some random facts:

You can fit a grand total of 16 Earth Shakers around Midgardsormr on O10S.
You can cheese Tsukuyomi's Spear cleave when doing a tankless run by using Card and Intercard directions while standing very close to her midpoint. This typically prevents the randomized cleave(s) from double cleaving the whole party.
You can stay in Cure III range at all times as a tank while not cleaving the party.

https://i.imgur.com/BDDNJTv.png

And this image shows a strategy for staying in Asylum the entire time you're doing Panto 1 Lasers. Though reading it again I realize I forgot to mention in the description that you can just bait the yellow AoEs in the middle if you want. Alternatively, you could position 1 player per safe corner of the Asylum to avoid doubling them up.

On the same note, the "ring strat" mentioned here is a way to preserve casters' uptime during the Panto 1 missile baits by spreading out into two rings of 4 players. Since AoEs only spawn under 4 players, that gives each player a 50% chance of NOT having to move (and thus interrupt their cast) to avoid a missile.

https://i.imgur.com/zBbNcc6.png

And a final point of boss midpoints: The boss hitbox is a guide. It does not represent the boss' actual size. The boss' actual size is one pixel. If you are south of that one pixel, you are south of the boss. This means you can stack for Cure III and Asylum, etc. As a tank. While facing Nidhogg, etc, away from the party. It also means the concept of having the OT position NE or E is usually pointless. All the OT needs to do to swap from a position like S is cross the boss midpoint. Being prepared for this makes the transfer completely smooth.

You can also use boss midpoint knowledge to dodge things you are not intended to dodge. Remember Stone Vigil? Frost Breath? That attack has a cast time of approximately 0.5 seconds. If you react fast enough (or know when it casts), you can actually move from 1 pixel in front of the boss to behind the boss in less than 0.1 second, thereby avoiding the attack. This trick can be used to bring down the boss during synced DPS-only runs. That dungeon is probably duo-able by two skilled DPS (no Titan/Physick). Though I can't count myself among those skilled DPS myself.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Really I think the best way to boost Asylum is to give it the CU treatment of applying a HoT buff in addition to the field HoT. I wouldn't apply any healing from the HoT buff on the instant tick upon entering (the field buff could still do that) but still refresh its duration by doing so. I'd reduce the field potency to compensate so that standing in it keeps it where it is when factoring in both the field HoT and the buff HoT..

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This is a nice idea, and it's not too unreasonable considering CU works this way too. I wouldn't say it needs to be nerfed though, WHM needs something strong, and right now it has nothing aside from Cure III, who's usefulness is questionable.

Perhaps à good start would be to either reduce its cd or make its radius weider.

Or another option would be to make it heal twice for half duration do people wouldn't have to stand in it for so long.

It could also have a lengthier duration but smaller potency (doubled with the huge radius) having a nearly permanent hot could be interesting.

It is true CI is currently better, but I don't think it needs a big tweak to become a good skill. The fact that we can step in and out could be exploited and become the ability strength

Just give it the CU treatment and it should be better.
WHM despite being HoT oriented lacks of good HoT oGCD
Whispering Dawn depends on the fairy position, CU puts the HoT on people once they enter the field.
Asylum requiring being inside is just outdated.

I think it would be better to just stick to a simpler change like having asylum's heal resolve faster or just giving it a more potent regen.

And the whole "I don't wanna have to stay in it for it to heal me" thing, is just not a good route to take it, I think.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

And the whole "I don't wanna have to stay in it for it to heal me" thing, is just not a good route to take it, I think.

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I don't necessarily disagree with you here, but unfortunately you can't have one job play by the rules and the rest to do whatever they want. The fact is, Whispering Dawn and CU don't require anyone to stack and stand in a single place for however long to take full advantage of, Asylum shouldn't either.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I don't necessarily disagree with you here, but unfortunately you can't have one job play by the rules and the rest to do whatever they want. The fact is, Whispering Dawn and CU don't require anyone to stack and stand in a single place for however long to take full advantage of, Asylum shouldn't either.

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Staying in asylum is rarely an issue, and just because one class does it different doesn't mean there's a huge problem.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I don't necessarily disagree with you here, but unfortunately you can't have one job play by the rules and the rest to do whatever they want. The fact is, Whispering Dawn and CU don't require anyone to stack and stand in a single place for however long to take full advantage of, Asylum shouldn't either.

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That's kind of a flawed way of looking at it. It may not feel "fair", but by that logic, every job would be exactly the same. In my opinion, Asylum as it is makes WHM more dynamic. You have to plan out how to use it with more care, rather than just reducing it to "Click button, give heals". I like how it's more of a team-oriented skill. Its usefulness depends not just on the healer, but on the entire party. And that was what SQEX was really aiming for with the updated role skills and new utility skills given to tanks and DPS. Healing is not just about the healer. It never was, but now it's more apparent than ever. DPS need to stay in heal range. Tanks need to use cooldowns appropriately to reduce damage. Tanks should shield the party at the right time to reduce heal strain. And just like those examples, everyone needs to stay in Asylum to get the effect. It's not really any different than staying in Cure III range. And with the exception of running a few mechanics here and there, everyone should be in Cure III range. Most mechanics can even be scaled down to stay within Cure III and Asylum range without too much trouble. It's just a matter of players not moving more than they need to.

In my view, many of the "problems" with job skills in this game really boil down to players lacking the awareness to actually use them properly. That includes me sometimes too (looking back, I can't believe I dissed Plenary Indulgence. I also can't believe I used to hold the old Spear perpetually, though I maintain that it was a useful card as it was before). I don't feel that balancing the game around pugs and disorganized statics is really the best way to go. Since the tools are all there for pugs to clear. They just need to really sit down and think about how to use them. Having two healers at all is huge. If you stop and approach FFXIV content like you might approach a logic problem, you realize you have far more than you really need to clear the fight. Asylum may be a bit finicky to use, but using it at all is not necessary. If people don't use it properly in your static, teach them how to use it - they're your static after all. If they don't use it in pugs...? Well, then you have two choices: you either adapt and waste MP healing them because they didn't bother to stand in Asylum, or you can spite them and let them die then tell them to stand in Asylum next time if they don't want to die. The choice is up to you (and how frustrated you feel at any given point in time :S...)

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

This is a nice idea, and it's not too unreasonable considering CU works this way too. I wouldn't say it needs to be nerfed though, WHM needs something strong, and right now it has nothing aside from Cure III, who's usefulness is questionable.

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I don't really want it to be nerfed, but I don't want to add much more potency than it has currently either. The idea I had in mind was basically to divide some of the current field HoT potency into the HoT buff it would apply, effectively changing very little in terms of potency if you could stand in the bubble the full duration already, but adding far more utility, and a bit of a fading aspect to it as HoT buff ticks would still apply after the field was gone like CU does. Asylum is already really strong when you can use it, just not practical to use. This addition would give it more utility. I could see a minor buff to its potency too, but I don't think it would need that much more if you would be able to get close to Roused-Whispering Dawn level ticks while moving around and the opportunity to refresh them.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

That's kind of a flawed way of looking at it. It may not feel "fair", but by that logic, every job would be exactly the same. In my opinion, Asylum as it is makes WHM more dynamic.

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I wouldn't call dealing with a cumbersome ability that's hardly worth it "dynamic".
Again, I don't think Asylum needs a buff really, but it does feel outdated. CU does what it does, easier and more fluidly. Now if Asylum was unique and offered something really significant for the raid I can understand, but a simple regen bubble? I don't see any reason to make it so demanding to get close to max efficiency out of it. Why have the entire team stand in your bubble to tick up when an AST or SCH can do the exact same thing with no hassle at all?

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I wouldn't call dealing with a cumbersome ability that's hardly worth it "dynamic".
Again, I don't think Asylum needs a buff really, but it does feel outdated. CU does what it does, easier and more fluidly. Now if Asylum was unique and offered something really significant for the raid I can understand, but a simple regen bubble? I don't see any reason to make it so demanding to get close to max efficiency out of it. Why have the entire team stand in your bubble to tick up when an AST or SCH can do the exact same thing with no hassle at all?

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Well, you see it as cumbersome. I see it as interesting. Using CU or Whispering Dawn is less satisfying for me, because it's just a click-and-done thing. Since I already enjoy optimizing fights to minimize necessary movement for casters and maintain maximum positional uptime for melee DPS, and since that optimization generally revolves around scaling down positioning to utilize boss midpoints and the properties of shapes, Asylum is fun for me to tie into my strategies.

A ground-based regen field is already unique. The issue is more about how it compares to CU and WD, as has been discussed here. While some are suggesting that Asylum be buffed somehow to make it easier to use, if it has to be changed, I'd rather keep its unique method of use and instead either buff its potency or nerf CU and WD. Buffing it's potency would make it broken overpowered, in my opinion, since it's already very strong, when you actually get the full potency out of it. I'd prefer looking at how to change WD and/or CU to make them less of a braindead skill to use, with awesome power o boot.

Personally, I'd say WD is fine as is. SCH has no other regen, and so it serves its purpose well. AST, on the other hand, got way too much of a good thing with the instant buff application changes. I'd rather see that changed instead, by perhaps reducing the actual regen duration to 8s or so, but letting it reset every tick, as before. This way, ASTs can drive-by CU if they want, but it doesn't last as long. If they want a longer regen effect, they'd need to spend a couple GCDs with the shield up. This would hurt their DPS, but it's a tradeoff for substantial healing at no MP cost. Alternatively, they always have the option of extending it as before (which was already incredibly potent, since it extended it to 23s). This would extend it to 18s, which would be plenty. If they skipped out on 1 GCD, they could get an extra 3s out of it, for a maximum total of 21s, which is similar to WD and Asylum.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

Well, you see it as cumbersome. I see it as interesting. Using CU or Whispering Dawn is less satisfying for me, because it's just a click-and-done thing. Since I already enjoy optimizing fights to minimize necessary movement for casters and maintain maximum positional uptime for melee DPS, and since that optimization generally revolves around scaling down positioning to utilize boss midpoints and the properties of shapes, Asylum is fun for me to tie into my strategies.

A ground-based regen field is already unique. The issue is more about how it compares to CU and WD, as has been discussed here. While some are suggesting that Asylum be buffed somehow to make it easier to use, if it has to be changed, I'd rather keep its unique method of use and instead either buff its potency or nerf CU and WD. Buffing it's potency would make it broken overpowered, in my opinion, since it's already very strong, when you actually get the full potency out of it. I'd prefer looking at how to change WD and/or CU to make them less of a braindead skill to use, with awesome power o boot.

Personally, I'd say WD is fine as is. SCH has no other regen, and so it serves its purpose well. AST, on the other hand, got way too much of a good thing with the instant buff application changes. I'd rather see that changed instead, by perhaps reducing the actual regen duration to 8s or so, but letting it reset every tick, as before. This way, ASTs can drive-by CU if they want, but it doesn't last as long. If they want a longer regen effect, they'd need to spend a couple GCDs with the shield up. This would hurt their DPS, but it's a tradeoff for substantial healing at no MP cost. Alternatively, they always have the option of extending it as before (which was already incredibly potent, since it extended it to 23s). This would extend it to 18s, which would be plenty. If they skipped out on 1 GCD, they could get an extra 3s out of it, for a maximum total of 21s, which is similar to WD and Asylum.

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I can respect the thought of Asylum being interesting and needs to be worked around. With that being said, I feel reward-effort ratio is absolutely terrible.

Collective Unconscious - everyone stays around the AST for one second and gets 750 potency worth of healing. They can run any direction they want
Asylum - coordinated team movement for 24 seconds to deal with mechanics without making Asylum impossible to reach for access to 800 potency worth of healing.

So, 1 second of coordination for 750 potency worth of healing or 24 seconds of coordination for 800 potency worth of healing.

If we're going to go with the logic that Asylum is okay, then CU would need the nerf. A reduction to 9s would make it a 450 potency heal. I'd say that's a fair trade for the ease at which CU can be used compared to Asylum's current iteration.

I'm more inclined to give Asylum a potency buff though if we're not going to give it a HoT component that'll stick onto any player that leaves the Asylum. This way you can retain Asylum's uniqueness while rewarding teams that can take full advantage of the small circle of movement that Asylum gives you. Buffing Ayslum's potency from 100 to 200 would net 1,600 potency worth of healing if your party can stay within the circle the entire time while dealing with mechanics.

So, 1 second of coordination for 750 potency worth of healing or 24 seconds of coordination for 1,600 potency worth of healing.

This post is more about some food for thought to consider than an actual suggestion to change Asylum. Reward-effort ratio should be consideration in this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I can respect the thought of Asylum being interesting and needs to be worked around. With that being said, I feel reward-effort ratio is absolutely terrible.

Collective Unconscious - everyone stays around the AST for one second and gets 750 potency worth of healing. They can run any direction they want
Asylum - coordinated team movement for 24 seconds to deal with mechanics without making Asylum impossible to reach for access to 800 potency worth of healing.

So, 1 second of coordination for 750 potency worth of healing or 24 seconds of coordination for 800 potency worth of healing.

If we're going to go with the logic that Asylum is okay, then CU would need the nerf. A reduction to 9s would make it a 450 potency heal. I'd say that's a fair trade for the ease at which CU can be used compared to Asylum's current iteration.

I'm more inclined to give Asylum a potency buff though if we're not going to give it a HoT component that'll stick onto any player that leaves the Asylum. This way you can retain Asylum's uniqueness while rewarding teams that can take full advantage of the small circle of movement that Asylum gives you. Buffing Ayslum's potency from 100 to 200 would net 1,600 potency worth of healing if your party can stay within the circle the entire time while dealing with mechanics.

So, 1 second of coordination for 750 potency worth of healing or 24 seconds of coordination for 1,600 potency worth of healing.

This post is more about some food for thought to consider than an actual suggestion to change Asylum. Reward-effort ratio should be consideration in this discussion.

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I can appreciate the effort to reward ratio being unfair between them, though that's kind of what makes it so awesome to use. It's hard to use, so that makes you feel better when you figure out nifty ways to use it.

Buffing the potency would be fair, I think, but I'm not sure about doubling it! 1600 potency? That's insane. With that much potency, I could basically ignore major mechanics and raid-wides just by having Asylum down. I think 150 might work though. That puts it more in line with others.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

I can appreciate the effort to reward ratio being unfair between them, though that's kind of what makes it so awesome to use. It's hard to use, so that makes you feel better when you figure out nifty ways to use it.

Buffing the potency would be fair, I think, but I'm not sure about doubling it! 1600 potency? That's insane. With that much potency, I could basically ignore major mechanics and raid-wides just by having Asylum down. I think 150 might work though. That puts it more in line with others.

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I mean if WHM is supposed to be "the big green numbers healer" I don't see why it's bubble ability shouldn't produce significantly higher HPS than the alternatives. It would also address the WHM weakness of needing to rely on GCDs for almost all their raidwide healing, though admittedly still limiting in a similar fashion to Cure III for the range which sucks for Alphascape.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

1600 potency? That's insane. With that much potency, I could basically ignore major mechanics and raid-wides just by having Asylum down.

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To be fair, this is what CU is capable of now. Just scoffing at raid wide damage. And even at 1600 potency, no one is going to stand in Asylum for 24 seconds, so it's more like half of that potency.

I said it before, but WHM really doesn't have anything absurdly strong like AST and SCH has, I don't think super charging Asylum would be too bad. If anything it'll be a step in the right direction if they want to stick with WHM being the "pure" healer, because right now the only thing that suggests WHM is more powerful is Cure III, and we don't need to get into how flawed that idea is.

Now that we are supposed to be losing TP as a resource in the 5.0 Expansion I don't think it's impossible for Asylum to gain an MP recovery component. It would turn the lack luster skill into a way to churn out more DPS in large mobs in dungeons and be universally useful for every character as well. The limited space would definitely be a lot more impactful if it both healed and gave a small refresh as well.