Loot Lockout

Please SE, for the love of all things good, please lower the loot-lockout timer please. I believe 300 seconds is way too long just to click Need, Greed, or Pass. I can’t tell you how many jerks I’ve come across, especially after a raid (8 or 24-man) who purposefully wait out the 5 minutes in an attempt at annoying people into leaving so that they can hog loot. And since you can’t tell who it is, you can’t report them for gameplay sabotage—which I believe this falls under. Maybe 60 or 90 is much more efficient, and if they don’t want to lower the timer for some reason we should be able to see who rolled or who didn’t so that we can report them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by colorbanditblk;

And since you can’t tell who it is

---

You can but you have to dig through system messages if you have it set to show the rolls in items. I've scrolled through it before since I had 5 minutes to check. Not convenient but still...

In FFXI it displayed everyone's roll or if they passed next to their name in the party list.

https://i.imgur.com/9wttz7j.png

All that is needed is a window that shows who hasn't hit/selected a button on the loot yet. Doesn't even need to show their # rolls or what they hit. Just need to be able to see who hasn't picked an option at all. That will stop most people from waiting out the timer if people can tell who is doing it.

The other reason I find this happening is when two or more players decide to roll on half the stuff, and wait for the others to drop (i.e one guy wants the bolt, but if they roll on the pedal it might drop first, locking them out of the bolt so they only roll on the bolt and leave the pedal until the bolt drops then they roll on it) before deciding if they want something else if they lose the first item - but they are waiting for opposites to drop so the loot doesn't get handed out until someone gives up.

There's no justification for the looting timer to be any longer than 30 seconds. If you miss your chance in that timeframe, toobadtoosad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

There's no justification for the looting timer to be any longer than 30 seconds. If you miss your chance in that timeframe, toobadtoosad.

---

No thanks. People need a chance to view their cutscenes if they want and to check to see if the item is a reasonable upgrade for them. There are also greedy people that will be happy to dash around opening up chests in side rooms while everyone else is in combat just to screw those people out of a chance at what's inside.

I'll stick with "too bad for you, learn how to wait patiently". If you want the loot that badly, it should be worth sticking around those couple of extra minutes.

120-150sec would be more than enough. :)

I agree that 300 seconds loot timer is too long. However, I understand that some people may need extra time to decide if or how they should roll.

I would suggest that Square-Enix forego requiring everyone to roll if the players who are eligible to roll need have done so. As an example, if there are 2 healers in the party and a healer item drops, then my suggestion is that the game immediately do the loot rolls when both or either healer(s) roll need. The game would not wait for the tanks or dps to roll since it is immaterial how they roll. However, if both healers roll greed or pass, then the game would still wait for every party member to roll.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

No thanks. People need a chance to view their cutscenes if they want and to check to see if the item is a reasonable upgrade for them. There are also greedy people that will be happy to dash around opening up chests in side rooms while everyone else is in combat just to screw those people out of a chance at what's inside.

I'll stick with "too bad for you, learn how to wait patiently". If you want the loot that badly, it should be worth sticking around those couple of extra minutes.

---

I'm going to second this. 30 seconds would just be barely enough (if at all) to watch a cutscene, look over the loot table, compare and roll. I think the middle ground should be around 120 seconds to 150 seconds. It'll give you plenty of time to watch, think, compare and decide and it's not too long to wait for either.

I think it's more of a defense for people who dc. Had a fright where healer dced after our 11s clear and during the loot distribution it took him ~200 seconds to reconnect (300s countdown timer used as a stopwatch). If it was 30s or even 150s he'd have lost out on his twine for no reason beyond network lag.

I suppose it doesn't need to be 300s. But at that moment I'm glad it was.

The 300 seconds has a purpose. First of hall ,those seeing a cutscene after a clear (yes, you re against people viewing cutscenes, but the are in their right to do it). Second, if someone disconnect, give enough time to come back. And third, after open chests, if you are in battle with trash mobs, give time to kill them, then roll on them.

It is not an arbitrary value because yes.

It IS annoying to sit there and wait, but yea, a DC could mean losing out on loot if it was too short...

Usually when I see someone being an asshat with rolls, I either alt-tab and do something for the 5 minutes or if there's something I need to do go do that instead, those people just waste their own time by doing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xlantaa

The 300 seconds has a purpose. First of hall ,those seeing a cutscene after a clear (yes, you re against people viewing cutscenes, but the are in their right to do it). Second, if someone disconnect, give enough time to come back. And third, after open chests, if you are in battle with trash mobs, give time to kill them, then roll on them.

It is not an arbitrary value because yes.

---

First: How many cutscenes are actually several minutes long? Since there is no loot in Praetorium, we dont need to count those for this question. I'm not playing this game with a stopwatch, but most cutscenes seem closer to 30 seconds or maybe a minute to me. Even if we account for 2 minutes for longer ones - that still leaves us with 3 minutes to spare on the loot-timer for no good reason.

Second: Disconnects - they happen, they're annoying, but seeing how there is no way to tell wether a disconnect takes 2 minutes or 2 hours to be fixed, I dont think we should account for those to much. Specially because they're a rather rare occassion, compared to non-disconnects. 5 minutes seems like a reasonable amount of time before you kick someone, but with loot? Why?

Third: Chests arent usually opened in the middle of a fight, but either after a boss fight (-> roll on them straight away, then go ahead) or at the end of a fight with trash-mobs.

Except for the dungeons/raids with a weekly lootlockout, which are very few, you also dont need to think about wether or not you want to roll on a piece of gear, you can happly need/greed away with no consequenes (unless someone specifically requested a certain piece of gear and you feel that you want to be nice). But you dont need to carefully examine the loot and ask yourself "Do I really want this? Is it better than what I have?"
For the most part, you can just blindly roll on everything without thinking about it or even looking at the loot. You can roll on it blindly in the middle of a fight, because it doesnt matter.

The 5 minutes seem very arbitrary to me, there is nothing that would actually require the timer to be excatly 5 minutes.
2 minutes would seem very much enough to me - cutscenes are rather longer, disconnects totally unpredictable and you can still roll on loot if the middle of a fight because you dont need to even think about it or look at what you're rolling on.

2 minutes you have to be joking and yes people do open the chests often enough during trash mobs and as a healer i find i don't have the time to look at the loot when the tank is pulling the field let alone waiting for me to look and roll on the loot before he runs off to the next series. 5 minutes is just fine.

I'm good with 100-120. It's enough time to view cutscene and loot check before you roll.

As for the people trying to play the chicken roll game, I just laugh it off cuz while you're hoping I lose patience and leave the instance, Ive already rolled or passed on everything and I'm already upstairs trying to find a snack or play something on my handheld as I wait.

Boss defeat cutscenes are generally pretty short and the only instances I can think of that have excessive cutscens *coughPraetoriumcough* also don't have loot drops. So I don't think it needs to be five minutes.

I think shortening it a bit would be fine. Part of the issue in 8 man raids I think may come from how the loot works in those though. You can only get one drop off the boss per week. Let's say you're trying to get a spring from O11. You could theoretically increase your chances of getting that spring if you pass on the other drops, and then wait for the rolls to go out on them. Anyone that wins one of those other items is now ineligible for the spring. But if there's someone else doing the same tactic trying to get a crank, then it turns into a game of chicken where you're just wasting everybody's time.

I kind of like the ability to target different pieces of loot with the raid part drops but I feel like some tweaks could be made to the system to make it a bit less....odd.

There's a very simple solution to these problems. Have the game remember who picked what and if the person that won is no longer in the instance have it sent by mail. If you didn't pick anything yet, then you pick pass when you leave the instance, but any other option sticks.

If a free to play game can do that and send mail with items if the person is no longer available (or online at all) at the time of loot being distributed, then Square Enix should have more than enough resources to do that too.

At that point a 5 minute wait or 10 minute wait won't matter, since those that "grieve" do so only because leaving invalidates other options. This would remove that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vidu

Third: Chests arent usually opened in the middle of a fight, but either after a boss fight (-> roll on them straight away, then go ahead) or at the end of a fight with trash-mobs.

---

this is wrong, i find myself opening chests and rolling on stuff during pulls in dungeons all the time. i can see very specifically 3 of those chests in the Vault in my head right now. and i know the current and previous set of expert dungeons have them too.

they should implement the FFXI system and see how that affects things.

Personally I find chests being opened mid pull in dungeons drastically more often than I see people trying to wait out the whole timer at the end of an instance. I’m fine with the timer as it is tbh. The difference between potentially waiting 2 or 5 minutes is not going to makeor break my day.

I disagree severely with the 300 second loot, but at the same time I don't see any of the reasons here against it as solid enough for a removal or reduction of it. It's not that I don't think it should be changed, but I just don't see a real reason that will argue hard enough for it to be changed when we don't have solid enough arguments when plenty of people came up with good reason. IE:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I think it's more of a defense for people who dc. Had a fright where healer dced after our 11s clear and during the loot distribution it took him ~200 seconds to reconnect (300s countdown timer used as a stopwatch). If it was 30s or even 150s he'd have lost out on his twine for no reason beyond network lag.

I suppose it doesn't need to be 300s. But at that moment I'm glad it was.

---

I just can't think of an argument strong enough to say that this loot doesn't help people when we have examples like that that help the argument for 300 seconds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

No thanks. People need a chance to view their cutscenes if they want and to check to see if the item is a reasonable upgrade for them. There are also greedy people that will be happy to dash around opening up chests in side rooms while everyone else is in combat just to screw those people out of a chance at what's inside.

I'll stick with "too bad for you, learn how to wait patiently". If you want the loot that badly, it should be worth sticking around those couple of extra minutes.

---

30 seconds is long enough.
You can press need on items if people dash around and open chests while in combat, I do this all the time while tanking big groups and it doesn't interrupt my rotation at all (the GCD is 2,5 seconds, more then enough to press need on items and for multiple items you can press need in between you press your keybinds in your rotation).
Cutscenes are no excuse, MSQ roulette has no loot and SE can change so that scenes play when you exit the roulette.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I think it's more of a defense for people who dc. Had a fright where healer dced after our 11s clear and during the loot distribution it took him ~200 seconds to reconnect (300s countdown timer used as a stopwatch). If it was 30s or even 150s he'd have lost out on his twine for no reason beyond network lag.

I suppose it doesn't need to be 300s. But at that moment I'm glad it was.

---

This doesn't work for me, I have on many occasions had DC's when the final boss died, I log back in in less then 15 seconds and there is no loot window or anything, whenever I DC I loose my right to loot. This was a real issue for me in the past but now I use a VPN so I don't DC anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fhaerron

This doesn't work for me, I have on many occasions had DC's when the final boss died, I log back in in less then 15 seconds and there is no loot window or anything, whenever I DC I loose my right to loot. This was a real issue for me in the past but now I use a VPN so I don't DC anymore.

---

if everyone has rolled already yes, but if one person hasn't, you should still see it. that's how it is for me usually.

It can be annoying but I think the loot systems themselves are a bigger problem than people not rolling.

In 8 man raids for example the big reason many don't roll is because of the loot system itself. In o12 for example players wont roll on the shaft they want until the other items have gone from the loot pool. Increases there chancez of winning.

Roll against 7 people. 12.5% chance to win.
Vs wait till people have won the rest of the items and roll against the remaining 4 people. 20% chance to win...

Problem is if someone else wants the crank they night not roll till the shafts and springs have gone from the pool. And thus everyone is waiting for everyone else .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

It can be annoying but I think the loot systems themselves are a bigger problem than people not rolling.

In 8 man raids for example the big reason many don't roll is because of the loot system itself. In o12 for example players wont roll on the shaft they want until the other items have gone from the loot pool. Increases there chancez of winning.

Roll against 7 people. 12.5% chance to win.
Vs wait till people have won the rest of the items and roll against the remaining 4 people. 20% chance to win...

Problem is if someone else wants the crank they night not roll till the shafts and springs have gone from the pool. And thus everyone is waiting for everyone else .

---

Yep. I'm also irked by only one fight dropping shafts but that's for another topic.

Bear with me as some of what o may say may no longer be relevant, this response is based off frequent play from last i was active 13months ago.

When concerning dungeons I don't see this as an issue. Maybe for trials and savage but even if that were the case I find it to be a rare occurance. Typically, in dungeons I pull big because everyone just wants to get their tomes as fast as they can.

I usually check first though, as any tank should, but I'll not typically roll on loot until after the pull is finished. That said though, if theres a gear piece i need or if someone needs a piece and i and or them ask the party to roll for said loot so to equip it; I've never had anyone not roll for the loot.

Even if you shorten the timer, if someone is already roping the time limit to get people to leave the loot pool, those same people are going to still do that regardless of how much time you allow for loot. So the proposed solution in the OP might not serve to have the desired effect. That said though if there were to be any actions made on the matter, if someone were to DC so to stagnate the wait for loot, perhaps after some time of DCing they be excluded from whatever that loot happened to be at the time.

Talking specifically about the normal mode 8man raids, part of the problem is all the different parts to roll on combined with weekly limit. People roll on the part they want, and wait to see if they get it before rolling on the others. Meanwhile, others do the same thing but with different parts and you wind up waiting on someone to roll. The loot setup in normal mode raids needs a major overhaul.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

In FFXI it displayed everyone's roll or if they passed next to their name in the party list.

https://i.imgur.com/9wttz7j.png

---

This is what we requested way back... a dialogue screen just like in FFXI that effectively showed everyone's roll. It would have been an excellent fix for that mysterious annoying troll that just downright refuses to roll.

60 to 90 Seconds is all needs to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

No thanks. People need a chance to view their cutscenes if they want and to check to see if the item is a reasonable upgrade for them. There are also greedy people that will be happy to dash around opening up chests in side rooms while everyone else is in combat just to screw those people out of a chance at what's inside.

I'll stick with "too bad for you, learn how to wait patiently". If you want the loot that badly, it should be worth sticking around those couple of extra minutes.

---

Pop the lotting on top of the cutscenes, if the cutscenes get in the way. As it is, the long cooldowns are a waste of time, for all but first time runners.

And I'm sorry, but you can't balance everything around first time runners.