Seriously, If You're Only Going To Create Designs For Women, Just Genderlock

I'd like to refer to these:
https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/9b...png?1536911948
http://upload2.inven.co.kr/upload/20...3799200015.png
https://blog-imgs-115.fc2.com/s/u/m/...617265658b.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/x3YQRyp.png
https://78.media.tumblr.com/f37adf31...9p5o6_1280.png

What do all of these glamours have in common? They're ALL clearly feminine fashion styles, for women obviously. Yet they are also all slapped with the "Unisex" sign. Not a single one of these glamour items have a male equivalent, a masculine fashion style, for men. Is this where we are going now? Where you make everything for women but allow men to wear women's fashion clothing so you can say it's equal? Because it's not.

And I really have no business being upset at this particular glamour but I feel almost offended that the devs seemed to deliberately leave out the men's Ao Dai and only included the women's Ao Dai. Yeah, there IS such a thing. So they ignored it's existence and only made the female version, I guess because it's "cute". Unfortunately it's not just the Ao Dai, they did this with every glamour posted above where they chose to completely leave out male versions of those fashions and called them "Unisex". The Ao Dai was simply the worst offender. It doesn't help that the only make glamour the guys got was their ruffled set for little boys that already costs less than 200k because of how terrible it is. AND THEY PUT IT IN PAGOS!

So what is it then? Do you only have time to make clothes for women now? Where are the men's casual RL fashion items? You seem to have no problem creating an infinite amount of RL feminine fashion clothing. What's the big deal? I hope you realize that there are people out there, heaven forbid, that want to look at male characters and see a guy with nice form-fitting casual clothes(like the 50 glamours ladies have. Uggs!? Are you kidding me?).

Armor is not traditional men's fashion. And neither are uggs, shirts with knots tied in them, women's cultural dresses, Daisy dukes, diamond pattern sweaters, or long winter coats with SHORTS.

I want to see fashion for men. Make them unisex, but make them for MEN in mind and make it so female characters can simply wear them.

First off? The real Ao Dai for men:
http://aodaibella.com/images/thumbs/0017369_600.jpeg

I'd like to see an actual men's winter coat and boots:
https://thejacketmaker-images.s3.ama...1383945362.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JWwAA...Tgq/s-l300.jpg

Considering the fact that we have Cali Beach bug sunglasses, regular sunglasses, diamond knit sweaters and uggs of all things, I want to see dress shirts and polos. Form-fitting ones. Not super baggy and blocky, it's unattractive(at least to me):
https://s7d4.scene7.com/is/image/JCP...resmode=sharp2
http://www.empirecustoms.ca/wp-conte...e-shirtsq1.jpg

Final Edit: This is what I meant by Google "Men's Sweaters". I get these results:

http://i.imgur.com/MvGBP9I.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JOV5Rb9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/94MSKVE.jpg

Of course they look feminine when you have females characters representing the gear...

Plus, there is a lot of gear I find only looks good on males.

What... I agree with your sentiment overall, but these are possibly the most gender neutral things you could have picked in the game...

The only things mentioned here that are blatantly feminine is the daisy dukes and the Ao Dai.

Since- since when is a cable-knit sweater "feminine"? Since when is a bulky toggle wool coat "feminine"? Literally all I hear from this is "I think these are cute on girls and they should only be given to girls."

The ao dai is the only one you've mentioned that I agree with. Everything else looks perfectly fine on men. Besides, there's nothing inherently "masculine" about the coat you picked for them. I've seen it look just as good on women.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Of course they look feminine when you have females characters representing the gear...

Plus, there is a lot of gear I find only looks good on males.

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Uh no. They are actual women's fashion. That's why female characters are wearing them. Show me where men have knots tied in their shirts for fashion purposes.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Uh no. They are actual women's fashion. That's why female characters are wearing them. Show me wear men have knots tied in their shirts for fashion purposes.

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I don't know, I don't do fashion. I wear khakis and polo shirts.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

Since- since when is a cable-knit sweater "feminine"? Since when is a bulky toggle wool coat "feminine"? Literally all I hear from this is "I think these are cute on girls and they should only be given to girls."

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Google "Women's Sweaters" then Google "Men's Sweaters". Try to find a diamond pattern sweater for men

What's the big deal? The big deal is the equivalent of what's in the game: On my server, the quaintrelle dress sells for 1.5m at its lowest (at the time I'm making this post). The boulevard sells for almost 300k.


Female fashions sells better. Been like that since even before I was born and probably will remain as such for a long time. The profiteering side of SE knows that and since their data continues to prove what they confidently know, they will stay the course. The only reason we have coded unisex gear is just really to placate/shut up the portion of the playerbase that doesn't/can't really affect that part of their revenue.


So trust me when I say I actually echo your feelings and I wish SE tried but I can't keep being angry at something that I know will definitely not change. At least not now or soon.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I don't know, I don't do fashion.

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But I do(meaning I work in it). Which is why I can see these items for what they are.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

But I do. Which is why I can see these items for what they are.

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Why don't you have any examples of the male gear in the game that is definitely male fashion tho? Like that overcoat you get fro completing Heavensward, or the gamblers coat, or any of those pieces?

And I've seen sweaters that look just like that for males. In fact I see more male characters using the winter sweater than female...

It seems like you just picked the most feminine unisex outfits to try to make a point.

...you know whats funny about the Ao Dai? I noticed the other day that it IS different between male and female characters - they have a different pattern on the front and personally I like the one the guys got better to be honest.

In regards to your whole topic... I can see where you're coming from and I wouldnt mind seeing more "manly" fashion for the guys, but I also feel you're a bit unfair and are only cherry-picking the pieces that fit your narrative.

For starters: We have very neutral gear in the game aswell - I'm looking at that leather jacket und several parts of gear spring into my mind that would sorta match it. We dont need to pretend that you cant achieve a "manly" look in the game.
Talking about that jacket: One thing that comes to mind is actually the Leonhart-jacket we got... which then reminds me that we got 4 glamour-sets from previous FF-characters. All male, but labeld unisex. I'm not complaining about this, but I'd like to point out to you that we got Squalls outfit, but not Rinoas dress. That we have Firions armor (however frilly and feminine it might be), but not Marias. That we can dress up like Cloud, but didnt get Aerith or Tidas outfit. That Zidanes clothes are in the game, but not Garnets, Eikos or Freyas (...and neither of those girls is even wearing extremly girly clothes, not counting Garnets queen-dress).

It stinks when guys dont get their fair cut of glamour and I'm very, very much for unlocking every glamouritem for both genders.
But I dont see any reason to pretend that there isnt any "manly" fashion in the game.


...and there is quite a bit of unisex gear that looks good on both sexes - and probably quite a lot that people prefer on guys.
Colour and combination are playing an important role here aswell - you're showing that spring-set from the GS-glamour and I dont see how the shirt (the shorts change anyways for the guys) cant be worn with something that will make it look more like a "mens shirt".
You really put effort into showing and underlining how femine something like a simple sweater can look like... I never actually considered that to be extremly femine? It doesnt has a cut that I would associate with "female clothes", like for exmaple a deep V-neckline.

With the exception of the Ao Dai and the Coachella girl top (which really the only change it needs is for guys to be bare chested under the shawl)..most of these examples are unisex?

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

What's the big deal? The big deal is the equivalent of what's in the game: On my server, the quaintrelle dress sells for 1.5m at its lowest (at the time I'm making this post). The boulevard sells for almost 300k.

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I'd wager the main reason its so lopsided because the boulevard set is a hot mess lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Google "Women's Sweaters"

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http://nextluxury.com/wp-content/upl...male-style.jpg

https://images.menswearhouse.com/is/...IN?$40GridLrg$

https://flashbak.com/wp-content/uplo...06/collage.jpg

Bonus :

Looks quite similar to Ala Mhigan top, but with no fringe because fringe hasn't been in style for a while.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/c2...232408f813.jpg


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I think you have the right idea, I just think you have chosen the absolute worst examples of it because these are gender neutral (not Ao Dai tho. That is a good example). Better examples would be how absolutely terrible the Boulevard set is compared to Quaintrelle or the mass amounts of tome/dungeon gear that are literal dresses. Or females getting well modeled gear NPC gear in the Mogstation (i.e. Lyse/Blackbosom) while males get a torn up Manderville suit and Hien's pixelated mess. Also never forget how awful caster and healer gear is for males.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

On my server, the quaintrelle dress sells for 1.5m at its lowest (at the time I'm making this post). The boulevard sells for almost 300k.

Female fashions sells better.

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An aside, but there is multiple reasons for the lower price - the boulevard material being easier to obtain than the quaintrelle as well as boulevard being an absolute hot mess in comparison.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Why don't you have any examples of the male gear in the game that is definitely male fashion tho? Like that overcoat you get fro completing Heavensward, or the gamblers coat, or any of those pieces?

And I've seen sweaters that look just like that for males. In fact I see more male characters using the winter sweater than female...

It seems like you just picked the most feminine unisex outfits to try to make a point.

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I didn't say they didn't exist. I said they were very lacking. All of the outfits listed above are all from SB alone. Which is why I picked them. Because we're in SB.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Google "Women's Sweaters" then Google "Men's Sweaters". Try to find a diamond pattern sweater for men

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There are irish woolen sweaters called aran jumpers and they look like this:

https://i.imgur.com/WLzS9rw.jpg https://i.imgur.com/vfjFgrA.jpg

Oh look it's that diamond pattern that you somehow think is exclusive to women's fashion.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Like that overcoat you get fro completing Heavensward, or the gamblers coat, or any of those pieces?

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The gambler's coat can't be used as an argument because it was originally designed as male-gender-locked, but was made unisex due to popular demand. Agree or disagree with OP, all these other pieces were made from the get-go as gender unlocked.

I actually like the new coat. I’m glad I’m saving my gil already.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Men's sweaters

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Men's sweaters and women's sweaters aren't exactly the same. Not only do your examples lack the diamond pattern, they are also all form-fitting to the wearer's, that's actually a design aspect for male sweaters.(I was never looking for specific sweaters. Just men's and women's sweaters) They are generally snugger. Women's sweaters are much more room despite being the correct size with relation to the wearer. And they do have the diamond pattern. In fact, my store is selling them for fall and winter right now:
https://s.thestreet.com/files/tsc/v2...-3_600x400.jpg
https://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/i/spin/-1...arpen=1&qlt=85
https://images.cabelas.com/is/image/...0&op_sharpen=1
https://www.blarney.com/contentfiles...ters-women.jpg

That's not to say women also don't have tight sweaters since women have broader fashion.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Men's sweaters and women's sweaters aren't exactly the same. Not only do your examples lack the diamond pattern

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Might want to scroll up then because I linked some that do. It's a very common design in aran jumpers.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Might want to scroll up then because I linked some that do. It's a very common design in aran jumpers.

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The only one of the group I posted that was an Aran Jumper was the last one. The other sweaters aren't even Aran Jumpers.

But have you googled "Men's Sweaters" though? Not a specific sweater. Just sweater. You don't get Aran Jumpers. Men wear Aran Jumpers? Fine. But that's not the average sweater you see in a store, like uggs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

The only one of the group I posted that was an Aran Jumper was the last one. The other sweaters aren't even Aran Jumpers.

But have you googled "Men's Sweaters" though? Not a specific sweater. Just sweater. You don't get Aran Jumpers. Men wear Aran Jumpers? Fine. But that's not the average sweater you see in a store, like uggs.

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Why do we have to google men's sweaters? Are you somehow unable to consider that SE may have actually deliberately put in an aran jumper? It looks exactly like one. Even the scarf and the pin is within the style for that type of clothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

But that's not the average sweater you see in a store

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Neither is 99% of gear in the game. I wish I could find the wind-silk coatee in a store.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Why do we have to google men's sweaters? Are you somehow unable to consider that SE may have actually deliberately put in an aran jumper? It looks exactly like one. Even the scarf and the pin is within the style for that type of clothing.



Neither is 99% of gear in the game. I wish I could find the wind-silk coatee in a store.

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Okay SE deliberately put in an Aran Sweater. Take the win. That doesn't change the fact that we have, a bunch of different kinds of glasses, the Spring dress set, the bridesmaids dress set, the new spring set, Aran Jumpers/basic diamond pattern winter sweater, knotted shirts(oh we got bunches of those over here), short leather jackets, long fur coats, long cloth coats, and soon uggs. Literally uggs(my store sells plenty of those for women, girls, toddler girls, and baby girls, none for males). All those things I listed I could go buy myself at the mall. In a single store.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I wear khakis and polo shirts.

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....Are you Jake from State Farm?

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

All those things I listed I could go buy myself at the mall.

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...are you complaining that you can buy these in real life? I thought your issue was that many designs were targeted at female characters, not that you can purchase similar in real life.

The Ala Mhigan gown and Ao Dai are the only feminine-not-unisex examples from your original post, in my opinion. (But how much variation is there in real Ao Dai designs? Just because you’ve shown one image doesn’t demonstrate that they never look like that. A picture comparing male and female versions would be helpful.)

The coat and boots look fine to me. Shorts won’t work for everyone but you can always substitute them for something else.

I think the spring shirt looks nicer on my male Elezen than either of my female characters. I think it drapes more nicely. Also the matching shorts turn into long pants on men. (There was a whole thread about it at the time - mostly of people saying they wanted the shorts too.)

I’m not sure about the plain sweater, but I know the version with the scarf is actually a different default colour depending on gender. The female one is pink and the male one is.... olive green, I think? Very different anyway, and I’ve never thought it looked odd on male characters.

And the boulevardier set... well, I started the discussion topic on that one. It’s definitely a weird design overall but the shirt is nice. I hadn’t realised the materials were easier to get though - that does explain the price difference. Plus even if there were equal amounts available, the fabric for the female version would be going into making both the dress and the skirt, but I expect not so many people are bothering with the male shorts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Penthea

...are you complaining that you can buy these in real life? I thought your issue was that many designs were targeted at female characters, not that you can purchase similar in real life.

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No no I was countering what you said with the fact that alot of glamours can be bought in a RL mall(women's section). That was my point of the OP, that male character lack those simple things like a polo or a dress shirt that lots of guys wear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Google "Women's Sweaters" then Google "Men's Sweaters". Try to find a diamond pattern sweater for men

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Are you kidding? The winter sweater is extremely gender neutral. You can maybe have an argument for the one with the scarf (the Adventurer’s Sweater), but the plain winter sweater is gender neutral. I see plenty of men walking around in sweaters around where I live.

I feel like you're making a mountain out of a mole hill with this thread, honestly. There are few that are feminine, but some of your examples don’t strike me as feminine clothing items (and I’m a female).

First off, let me apologize that these pictures are so small. Could only do the preview option on my guy.

https://i.imgur.com/GAStVVC.png
https://i.imgur.com/4cTtFoy.png
https://i.imgur.com/mvuRX7R.png
https://i.imgur.com/PXlFbvn.png

Out of the market board glams, these are probably the worst offenders as far as coming off rather feminine. The sweater isn't really that bad, but including it as it's been talked about quite a bit up above :P

I think the bigger issue I have with SE and their designs is that it all just comes off as lazy to me. I've played games that have fantastic versions of an item for both males and females. The gear looks like it was actually designed for each gender, and it's customized to fit their bodies. With the items posted, it seems that they designed them more with females in mind, and then did minimal tweaks, if any, to hand over to the guys. Bunny suit is a nice example of this as well.

I honestly don't get the problem, but maybe because in this day and age....I've had to spend money on black pants meant for guys with deeper pockets in them because the black pants they make for women suck and apparently, we're not allowed to have deep pockets!

Men have weird sizing for their pants though, I mean, I get why and all...but it's just weird...lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The Ala Mhigan gown and Ao Dai are the only feminine-not-unisex examples from your original post, in my opinion. (But how much variation is there in real Ao Dai designs? Just because you’ve shown one image doesn’t demonstrate that they never look like that. A picture comparing male and female versions would be helpful.)

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Sure thing!

http://media.vov1.vn/UploadImages/vo...DAI_222222.jpg
http://heavenaodai.com/wp-content/up...6i-220x317.jpg

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

No no I was countering what you said with the fact that alot of glamours can be bought in a RL mall(women's section). That was my point of the OP, that male character lack those simple things like a polo or a dress shirt.

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Well I'd love to live where you do. I'd have serious problems finding even 10% of the glam only gear where I live. I could get the quaintrelle's dress but only in children's sizes, the uggs for definite, but the matching coat and the cropped leather jacket are only a maybe. The shorts? Couldn't find a plain pair to save my life this summer or last summer. They were all distressed or had sequins. I'd probably have to order a legit aran jumper from back home. Absolutely forget about the ala mhigan gown unless I buy something plain and add the fringes myself.

I don't disagree that SE should expand on male fashion, but I think you'll find not everyone is located in a place where they can easily purchase most of the female glam clothing in real life.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

https://i.imgur.com/PXlFbvn.png

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The shirt from that set in particular you won't see too often in feminine designs, and the pants actually follow more closely older fashions for men. Also keep in mind the overall aesthetic of that set. It's frills. And these are not, er, feminine frills. If you say frills in general are feminine that's another debate, but given the frills requirement, I wouldn't call this feminine, per-se.

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Bunny suit is a nice example of this as well.

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In a way I disagree because in many ways SE had to keep the designs as-is for the simple matter that they'd be skewing things in the other direction. The Gambler set began as male-locked, then was made unisex while maintaining its original design. By giving us a Bunny suit that differed from the original designs, they'd be creating a 'debt' to the female glamour side in regards to the Gold Saucer glamours.
In a way I couldn't agree more. Them being incapable of so much as shrinking the bow which was obviously designed to go along with breasts, instead of something that would better fit male pecs, is truly proof of how much they wanted to get this out of the way.

Didn't the Ao Dai come from a different region anyways...?

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Didn't the Ao Dai come from a different region anyways...?

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Nope. The Ao Dai was just a random crafted glamour they came out with in.. 4.1? Or 4.05? Or was it 4.15... one of those.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Sure thing!

http://media.vov1.vn/UploadImages/vo...DAI_222222.jpg
http://heavenaodai.com/wp-content/up...6i-220x317.jpg

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So the main difference seems to be the length and fittedness? The man in the second picture doesn’t look too far off the game design to me, other than the fantail back added to both gender designs.

The real female designs actually look more fitted than the game version.

For reference, some pictures I’d previously uploaded of one of my characters wearing it:

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...8318b456aa.jpg

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...67ad64bb76.jpg

I feel like it’s halfway between the male and female designs you posted? (With the collar shape, looser fit around the shoulders, and the length is more like the male version than the ankle-length female version.)

It’s like for some reason they’ve gone with one design halfway between the two gender-specific originals. And then made them different anyway for some reason.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

The shirt from that set in particular you won't see too often in feminine designs, and the pants actually follow more closely older fashions for men. Also keep in mind the overall aesthetic of that set. It's frills. And these are not, er, feminine frills. If you say frills in general are feminine that's another debate, but given the frills requirement, I wouldn't call this feminine, per-se.



In a way I disagree because in many ways SE had to keep the designs as-is for the simple matter that they'd be skewing things in the other direction. The Gambler set began as male-locked, then was made unisex while maintaining its original design. By giving us a Bunny suit that differed from the original designs, they'd be creating a 'debt' to the female glamour side in regards to the Gold Saucer glamours.
In a way I couldn't agree more. Them being incapable of so much as shrinking the bow which was obviously designed to go along with breasts, instead of something that would better fit male pecs, is truly proof of how much they wanted to get this out of the way.

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I actually really like the guy's version of the Quaintrelle shirt. Shame I don't see it used much D: And in regards to the pants, I can see your point as well. Perhaps they were channeling some 16th century designs with the poofy pants, and added frills to keep in the spirit of the outfit. I was looking at it more just by itself originally, and my initial reaction was just 'WTF SE'.

Also, I totally forgot that the Gambler's set started as male only. X:

If they are going to continue the trend of doing unisex hair/outfits, I just really wish they'd take the time to modify them a little bit more based on the gender and race in question.

Sweaters are only for women? Mind blown.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

So the main difference seems to be the length and fittedness? The man in the second picture doesn’t look too far off the game design to me, other than the fantail back added to both gender designs.

The real female designs actually look more fitted than the game version.

For reference, some pictures I’d previously uploaded of one of my characters wearing it:

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...8318b456aa.jpg

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...67ad64bb76.jpg

I feel like it’s halfway between the male and female designs you posted? (With the collar shape, looser fit around the shoulders, and the length is more like the male version than the ankle-length female version.)

It’s like for some reason they’ve gone with one design halfway between the two gender-specific originals. And then made them different anyway for some reason.

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It's definitely the female version. They just rendered it weirdly. Take a close look at the women. They wear a 3 piece set. Ao Dai(dress), Quan(the pants), and Non La(Hat), although the women in the photo I uploaded were simply holding their Non La. The women also tend to have floral design similar to what we have but they don't have to though.

The men, from what I could see, don't wear Quan or use Non Las. I honestly don't know what their pieces are called. Maybe they have the same name. But the style we have now is the female version for sure.

http://www.kimwelling.de/images/cate...%20MPGPGDA.jpg

Jupp looks female...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Sweaters are only for women? Mind blown.

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That is definitely not what I meant and you know it. But thanks for reminding that I forgot that part in my edits.