Eureka and combat thoughts

After playing through eureka, I couldn't help but wonder if this is what final fantasy xiv 1.0 should have been all along. You get an actual feeling of community and danger from the world. However, I can't help but wonder why they don't change combat up a bit. At the moment it's too button mashy, too fast paced. Especially for the likes of a place like eureka. Back in ff11 combat was slower, but felt more rewarding when attacks were successfully executed. Ex:trick attack sneak attack combo.

With that being said, any chance of combat being slowed down a bit so that attacks actually feel meaningful. Personally, I feel that the battle system at the moment forces us to pay attention more to the hot bar and less on the hero.

I'm assuming you've only made it to Anemos so far? Pagos pretty much destroys any semblance of community Eureka ever had

You can play FFXIV like FFXI if you really want to. Just use auto attack, and every minute or so use one ability. The key is to not use a rotation at all. Get some like-minded friends together and have them do the same. Pretty soon you'll have a chain of attacks, and you can have a mage pretend to magic burst. You won't get very far playing this way, but it's the journey anyway, right?

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Originally Posted by TarynH

You can play FFXIV like FFXI if you really want to. Just use auto attack, and every minute or so use one ability. The key is to not use a rotation at all. Get some like-minded friends together and have them do the same. Pretty soon you'll have a chain of attacks, and you can have a mage pretend to magic burst. You won't get very far playing this way, but it's the journey anyway, right?

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What I mean is that instead perhaps include a option to make battle take less button mashes but result in damage commensurate to those that are at the default speed. Perhaps a higher cool down between combos but successful execution offers significant damage? I'm not saying that this should be implemented all across the board.... But just a option for those that prefer slower pace combat to savor the battle.

I wish I could better explain... I just want to be able to savor the accomplishment of each battle without having it feel like I'm playing street fighter.

step 1 - go back to a single player rpg
step 2 - turn combat speed down to the lowest setting
step 3 - enjoy

do you really think the devs would separate gameplay type into two different speed styles? come on, be realistic. People coming from other games already complain about the slow GCD as it is until they get used to it.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

step 1 - go back to a single player rpg
step 2 - turn combat speed down to the lowest setting
step 3 - enjoy

do you really think the devs would separate gameplay type into two different speed styles? come on, be realistic. People coming from other games already complain about the slow GCD as it is until they get used to it.

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I'm not saying they would but I don't see it too farfetched. Look at how eureka works. That type of zone works best with that style of combat. But that is besides the point. I just want the game to feel less like a street fighter game and more like a final fantasy one. Changes to the combat wouldn't hurt.

So ... you are asking a mmorpg that has a gcd of 2.5s to make it even slower? Even slower?

0.0

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Originally Posted by Jib

So ... you are asking a mmorpg that has a cd of 2.5s to make it even slower? Even slower?

0.0

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Combat in the game is very fast paced. Fight in eureka or any boss battle and see for yourself. How many street fighter combos need to be made to finish a battle? To me its unnecessary.

Listen, all in saying is that combat can feel just as epic and satisfying... Maybe even more, if combat was slower. Combos can actually mean something rather than the spam fest it is now.

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Combat in the game is very fast paced. Fight in eureka or any boss battle and see for yourself. How many street fighter combos need to be made to finish a battle? To me its unnecessary.

Listen, all in saying is that combat can feel just as epic and satisfying... Maybe even more, if combat was slower. Combos can actually mean something rather than the spam fest it is now.

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ok you go play in baby mode then. let the big boys play the game it was meant to be played.

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Fight in eureka or any boss battle and see for yourself. How many street fighter combos need to be made to finish a battle.

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...none? :confused:

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Combat in the game is very fast paced. Fight in eureka or any boss battle and see for yourself. How many street fighter combos need to be made to finish a battle? To me its unnecessary.

Listen, all in saying is that combat can feel just as epic and satisfying... Maybe even more, if combat was slower. Combos can actually mean something rather than the spam fest it is now.

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What classes are you actually playing?

I would agree that some dps classes have burst windows that are quite fast (at least compared to my time spent healing) but those windows also tend to feel meaningful and not like a 'spam fest' so... I don't know what you're doing here.

Like BRD. Minuet feels like a time crunch because you're trying to use PP stacks at the right times while still getting off BL, EA and using Barrage at the right time during Raging. But when you do it right you also burst for a large amount of damage and it feels exhilarating.

I feel like perhaps you should experiment with some alternate classes. BLM has a very low cast per minute, it might feel a bit more like the gameplay you're looking for.

Either way - no, please, I don't want combat slowed down at all. It's fine where it is.

I cant sry i agree with the OP idea. But eureka still has community. And it's much nicer then the one on this thread. I bet, as the game moves on you will still find people in there tying for that special gear like Optical Hat.

I've stood it before, the lady staged of this relic should unlock a weapon skill. Watch purple throw themselves at it.

Wait, i dont agree. Dont slow it down.

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

...none? :confused:

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Go check eureka, it's a spam fest, especially for dragoon.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

ok you go play in baby mode then. let the big boys play the game it was meant to be played.

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That's not what I meant. Fight in eureka or any boss battle and see for yourself. How many street fighter combos need to be made to finish a battle? To me its unnecessary.

Listen, all in saying is that combat can feel just as epic and satisfying... Maybe even more, if combat was slower. Combos can actually mean something rather than the spam fest it is now.could be a interesting option for those that prefer slower combat.

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Combat in the game is very fast paced. Fight in eureka or any boss battle and see for yourself. How many street fighter combos need to be made to finish a battle? To me its unnecessary.

Listen, all in saying is that combat can feel just as epic and satisfying... Maybe even more, if combat was slower. Combos can actually mean something rather than the spam fest it is now.

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Go check eureka, it's a spam fest, especially for dragoon.



That's not what I meant. Fight in eureka or any boss battle and see for yourself. How many street fighter combos need to be made to finish a battle? To me its unnecessary.

Listen, all in saying is that combat can feel just as epic and satisfying... Maybe even more, if combat was slower. Combos can actually mean something rather than the spam fest it is now.could be a interesting option for those that prefer slower combat.

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You're saying literally the same thing over and over. It isn't more convincing the second time I see it.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

You're saying literally the same thing over and over. It isn't more convincing the second time I see it.

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Its called doubling down. I feel pretty confident about my opinion.

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Its called doubling down. I feel pretty confident about my opinion.

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Someone has to, I suppose.

Because most don't agree.

So what I'm getting from this topic is the tc doesn't enjoy the GCD in general and would prefer something slower paced like turn-based combat or old school XI where you build tp to use weaponskills so there's more weight to each action.

I can understand to an extent. I find I can't spend more than an hour or two in Eureka without my wrists starting to hurt from mashing out my rotation.
However I find it extremely unlikely that SE would modify the combat significantly as you risk alienating people that enjoy the game the way it is. Especially since many people coming from other MMOs already find the GCD too slow here.

Street Fighter combos, Street Fighter combos, Street Fighter combos.
Do you write for Polygon or the like? Seriously, beyond the fact that buttons are pushed and things are called combos there is no similarity whatsoever between these games unless your skill levels and general reflexes are so painfully low that multiple inputs in <1 second are the same as a single button or even multiple sets of those <1 second inputs within 2-3 seconds are the same as pushing 3-5 buttons over 6 seconds tops.
If you really have that bad of a reaction time, you should probably stick to turn based games.

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

Street Fighter combos, Street Fighter combos, Street Fighter combos.
Do you write for Polygon or the like? Seriously, beyond the fact that buttons are pushed and things are called combos there is no similarity whatsoever between these games unless your skill levels and general reflexes are so painfully low that multiple inputs in <1 second are the same as a single button or even multiple sets of those <1 second inputs within 2-3 seconds are the same as pushing 3-5 buttons over 6 seconds tops.
If you really have that bad of a reaction time, you should probably stick to turn based games.

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The faux outrage and backlash i'm receiving over a opinion makes me believe that the battle system suggestion was the right one to make.

Go check the battle rotation with dragoon, it's a spam fest.

Listen, all im saying is that combat can feel just as epic and satisfying... Maybe even more, if there were a option for slower combat. Combos can actually mean something rather than the spam fest it is at the moment.

Only one here that offered a response with substance was Moomba. That rest was quite toxic....

I think the combat pace is pretty good in ff14. Some people say it’s to slow, like “TheLazyPeon” and others it’s to fast. For a mmo I think it’s just right. Just fast enough to not be boring and slow enough to have some strategy.

Casters in general have a slower pace; try them if you want it slower. Difference between bard and blm is night and day. Not sure they can make a slower class because you end up with MCH wildfire (withotu the buffs)...the duration of the ability is too long to fit into fights.

So pressing 1-2-3 at 2.4 second intervals is a Street Fighter combo? Damn, why don't I sign up for EVO then!?

Combat shouldn't be adapted to Eureka, Eureka should be adapted to our combat.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Combat shouldn't be adapted to Eureka, Eureka should be adapted to our combat.

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I believe this is the best articulated answer.

Dragoon is the slowest of all melee dps so idk where you're getting this button mashing thing from. But I wouldn't be apposed to eureka testing the waters with an revamped eureka only combat system where you press less buttons but the skills you do mean a lot more, something like 11 or 1.0. Have it set up like the PvP combat system where it changes your skills to mean other things. The only issue I have with this and it's a pretty big one is can the devs do this without making it insanely shallow.

Like others have said I'd much prefer eureka to adapt to the combat system we have now, make mobs do more mechanics, give them more health, make more mini NM bosses that are even tougher then that, build off the adaptions/mutations system.

I agree that combat is too fast paced for content like eureka, but that just means they shouldn't make content like eureka, not slow combat to work in eureka. If I wanted to play a slower game id play ff11.

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

The faux outrage and backlash i'm receiving over a opinion makes me believe that the battle system suggestion was the right one to make.

Go check the battle rotation with dragoon, it's a spam fest.

Listen, all im saying is that combat can feel just as epic and satisfying... Maybe even more, if there were a option for slower combat. Combos can actually mean something rather than the spam fest it is at the moment.

Only one here that offered a response with substance was Moomba. That rest was quite toxic....

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Hoo boy...if you thought the responses thus far were anywhere close to toxic, then you have been sheltered from the Internet for too long.

All sarcasm aside, I can get where you are coming from, but there aren't really ...spammy jobs. I mean sure, players who don't know what they are doing correctly can probably spam. Some jobs like NIN and MCH have ten second windows that may feel like spam, but for the most part, I think combat is just fine where it is. I can't imagine combat being slower without a huge overhaul that will likely make FFXIV lose its combat identity. I've seen the Garuda fight in the 1.0 engine - I could not handle something like that in FFXIV.

Sadly, we're in a faster-paced environment where that type of game style is not really something that MMO players tend to look for, especially newer players and those coming from other MMOs and MOBA-style games. The slower combat would really only be niche in FFXIV.

What jobs do you play with, out of curiosity?

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

The faux outrage and backlash i'm receiving over a opinion makes me believe that the battle system suggestion was the right one to make.

Go check the battle rotation with dragoon, it's a spam fest.

Listen, all im saying is that combat can feel just as epic and satisfying... Maybe even more, if there were a option for slower combat. Combos can actually mean something rather than the spam fest it is at the moment.

Only one here that offered a response with substance was Moomba. That rest was quite toxic....

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It's not faux outrage or backlash it's criticism. For ducks sake people on these forums think anyone disagreeing with them is toxic and it's really annoying.

I asked you a relevant question which has since been answered indirectly (what classes you were playing), offered a feeling of sympathy about some parts of combat feeling fast and offered a suggestion for a slower pace option that you might like more.

But no, get offended by me calling out your copy/paste response. That's totally logical and not at all snowflake af.

Have fun with your new combat system. I hope you enjoy people laughing at it o/

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I believe this is the best articulated answer.

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Eureka gives square the opportunity to test out something new. In my opinion, SE should be risky and play around with combat ideas there.

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Combat in the game is very fast paced. Fight in eureka or any boss battle and see for yourself. How many street fighter combos need to be made to finish a battle? To me its unnecessary.

Listen, all in saying is that combat can feel just as epic and satisfying... Maybe even more, if combat was slower. Combos can actually mean something rather than the spam fest it is now.

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I don’t agree that this game is very fast paced. I’m a filthy casual that has completed all ex trials and some savage. I do agree that the bosses are many times tactic intensive which having a gcd of 2.5s helps. I believe it is fine as it is.

But comparing to other games like WOW, Swtor,... trinity based mmorpgs, great number of them have a gcd of 1.5s, so actually much faster.

I think I do understand a bit where you are coming from. If you said just in Eureka to try something different like that. I might say “ok”. In my opinion Eureka can’t really get much worse so.. maybe yes.

Making the whole of FFXIV slower though, I fully disagree.

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

What I mean is that instead perhaps include a option to make battle take less button mashes but result in damage commensurate to those that are at the default speed. Perhaps a higher cool down between combos but successful execution offers significant damage?

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There are a couple of issues with this statement:

1) You think that there should be an option where you can put in less effort (less button presses) and it should reward performance (damage) identical to players who are putting more effort in?

2) When you say "successful execution" you are talking about pressing 1,2, and then 3 even more slowly than you currently are? You feel that being rewarded "significant damage" for a mind-numbingly trivial task is appropriate?

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Look at how eureka works. That type of zone works best with that style of combat.

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You believe that Eureka, something that is extremely polarized among the community would work "best" with even slower combat?

How? Please go into details/specifics.

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Combat in the game is very fast paced. Fight in eureka or any boss battle and see for yourself. How many street fighter combos need to be made to finish a battle? To me its unnecessary.

Listen, all in saying is that combat can feel just as epic and satisfying... Maybe even more, if combat was slower. Combos can actually mean something rather than the spam fest it is now.

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No combat is not "very fast paced". Neither objectively or among its peers. It's pretty universally accepted as one of the slowest modern MMO combat engines.

I have and I completely disagree with your statement. I wish and have even posited entire "what if" posts to how the system could be modernized and improved.

Please - go into detail when you say "combos can mean something". Give examples of what meaningful combos look like.

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Eureka gives square the opportunity to test out something new. In my opinion, SE should be risky and play around with combat ideas there.

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Fair feedback here. I agree.

But again, I've made several posts with concrete examples and methodologies behind how/why I want things changed. Why not go into detail with your feedback and actually explain how you'd like them to change it. Don't say just make it slower. Explain how it would be slower, and explain how it would impact other interconnected systems and how you feel those issues would be best remedied by your proposed solution.

Don't criticize the combat of FFXIV with the context of Eureka. Criticize Eureka with the context of FFXIV's established combat. I doubt they'd rework the entire combat system just for Eureka, so that's how we have to do it. And I highly doubt they'd completely uproot the current combat system just to make it work with Eureka. If you want a slower combat system than the already "slow" 2.5 GCD we have, I don't know what to tell you except try different classes or play different games. Sorry.

Not being toxic or "backlashing" against you. Just telling you my frank opinion.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

For ducks sake people on these forums think anyone disagreeing with them is toxic and it's really annoying.
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That's totally logical and not at all snowflake af.

Have fun with your new combat system. I hope you enjoy people laughing at it o/

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It's not just disagreeing, it's clearly disagreeing in a toxic way. You don't have to call people snowflake as f*** to share a different opinion. The sentiment of OP's post is pretty much that the pace and repetition of XIV combat doesn't hold up for the kind of massive grind hours in one location that Pagos requires. Their proposed solution might not be perfect or feasible but we should be able to disagree without namecalling.

its nice relaxing overkilling time, but they could ease down the exp meter, im lvl8 and soon lvl9 from solo kill mobs, ive just got 24 proterian crystals, but its nice :D