Something that concerns me...

I've read in one of these threads the suggestion for FASTER PACED combat. In a way, I was relieved because in said thread was a post that received 30 likes that was against faster paced combat.

Despite that, I'm worried that the faster paced combat suggestion might reach the ears of Yoshi-P and might actually HAPPEN.

Is there a good chance that we'll get faster paced combat? Please no. I like what we currently have.

I imagine changing to a faster paced combat would require a change in the entire combat system, which seems fairly unlikely at this point.

I can't even imagine the nightmare that we would have on certain fights like Helicarnassus, God Kefka, Tsuku, even Byakko - because having faster pace means that boss mechanics would have to be adjusted to compensate. Aside from that, it wouldn't work on this engine, not unless we have a lot of clipping.

I don't want faster paced combat, I avoid Skill speed or spell speed as much as I can.
At the same time, I would like for a revamp for low level combat. Conversion of most of ARR MSQ to sidequest.

I'm starting to feel like the GCD is too long. I would not be opposed to speeding that up, or making more things OGCD.

If you mean like dodging AoEs, then no. It's about as hectic as it can be already unless they make everything client side.

The combat isn't exactly slow at level cap. The main differences between FFXIV and a game like WoW are that you generally aren't stacking skill speed to the point that you've taken a half second or more off all of your cast times and the game is set up to place less of an emphasis on reactive play. I assume the second bit is because of the control configuration required for console, and consequently is unlikely to change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Super_Bee_Brian

I've read in one of these threads the suggestion for FASTER PACED combat. In a way, I was relieved because in said thread was a post that received 30 likes that was against faster paced combat.

Despite that, I'm worried that the faster paced combat suggestion might reach the ears of Yoshi-P and might actually HAPPEN.

Is there a good chance that we'll get faster paced combat? Please no. I like what we currently have.

---

A new combat system would require the entire games core mechanics to be changed and rebalanced. I doubt thats going to happen. If it were, you might as well build a new MMO.

So its a non worry. More likely to see class/cross-class things get changed again and re-balanced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

The combat isn't exactly slow at level cap. The main differences between FFXIV and a game like WoW are that you generally aren't stacking skill speed to the point that you've taken a half second or more off all of your cast times and the game is set up to place less of an emphasis on reactive play. I assume the second bit is because of the control configuration required for console, and consequently is unlikely to change.

---

Eh I wonder if wow can still be considered fast after I've seen the vid of a guy beign very critical about death knight in BFA, on his own admission he was too much of a buffon there, but it was a good laugh

Faster combat works on WoW because they run more on a priority system, where you adapt to procs, charges and other resources to decide which buttons you press on the spot, rather than our 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 4, 1, 2, 3. WoW also has basically no server lag on instant cd's and abilities in general. Overall it flows more smoothly, though they've decided to screw around with it in BFA so that probably won't last.

To be honest, I strongly dislike FF14's combat and always have. I love the game despite the combat, not because of it. It's slow, clunky, unresponsive and the main reason the majority of players from other games try FF14 and decide it's not their cup of tea. That said, I strongly doubt the servers are capable of a rehaul and the combat is slow due to limitations rather than preference. I can't see any major changes happening in the forseeable future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

Eh I wonder if wow can still be considered fast after I've seen the vid of a guy beign very critical about death knight in BFA, on his own admission he was too much of a buffon there, but it was a good laugh

---

I have no idea what video you're talking about, but if WoW isn't considered fast, then I don't know what MMORPG is. I've never played an MMORPG that generally required higher APM to be good at it, though many are comparable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

I have no idea what video you're talking about, but if WoW isn't considered fast, then I don't know what MMORPG is. I've never played an MMORPG that generally required higher APM to be good at it, though many are comparable.

---

Can link if you want, though it is quite silly in parts, the point is that as liam harper has said they are trying to slow it down in some parts or at least it's what the guy was saying regarding his spec

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

Can link if you want, though it is quite silly in parts, the point is that as liam harper has said they are trying to slow it down in some parts or at least it's what the guy was saying regarding his spec

---

Oh, yes. Blizzard is definitely trying to slow it down a bit, so maybe WoW as of like a week ago is no longer fast, but traditionally (and also thus what most people would think of if they haven't played recently) it is definitely fast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

The combat isn't exactly slow at level cap. The main differences between FFXIV and a game like WoW are that you generally aren't stacking skill speed to the point that you've taken a half second or more off all of your cast times and the game is set up to place less of an emphasis on reactive play. I assume the second bit is because of the control configuration required for console, and consequently is unlikely to change.

---

I play with a controller mod on WoW, and honestly I don't think a controller would be what holds players back. Humorously, the player-made controller mod for WoW has some smarter design choices than XIV's (using L1 and L2 as toggles instead of L2 and R2; this frees up R2 and R1 to be used as actions. This is advantageous because all four shoulder buttons can be used without interfering at all with the player's ability to move their character or camera.) However, from my somewhat limited WoW experience, XIV isn't as movement intensive as WoW. Something about WoW just feels more...fluid, for lack of a better term, than XIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

I have no idea what video you're talking about, but if WoW isn't considered fast, then I don't know what MMORPG is. I've never played an MMORPG that generally required higher APM to be good at it, though many are comparable.

---

WoW is certainly fast-ish, considerably more so than FF14. However, there are some games that are much faster. Blade and Soul comes to mind instantly. Even Wildstar was a little faster than WoW (on the one class I played, can't speak for rest).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I play with a controller mod on WoW, and honestly I don't think a controller would be what holds players back. Humorously, the player-made controller mod for WoW has some smarter design choices than XIV's (using L1 and L2 as toggles instead of L2 and R2; this frees up R2 and R1 to be used as actions. This is advantageous because all four shoulder buttons can be used without interfering at all with the player's ability to move their character or camera.) However, from my somewhat limited WoW experience, XIV isn't as movement intensive as WoW. Something about WoW just feels more...fluid, for lack of a better term, than XIV.

---

To anyone speculating that controllers are the weak link for faster combat that is absolute hogwash. Fighting games require considerably more APM than probably any MMO and are done on pads (controllers) very commonly these days (used to be mostly sticks, but it's evened out).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

WoW is certainly fast-ish, considerably more so than FF14. However, there are some games that are much faster. Blade and Soul comes to mind instantly. Even Wildstar was a little faster than WoW (on the one class I played, can't speak for rest).

---

I've never played Blade and Soul, but unless Wildstar speeds up significantly at higher levels, I'd consider it to be essentially the same speed as WoW. Certainly that was my experience with the few characters I played at lower levels. The only way in which I might consider it faster is that it required active dodging.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

I've never played Blade and Soul, but unless Wildstar speeds up significantly at higher levels, I'd consider it to be essentially the same speed as WoW. Certainly that was my experience with the few characters I played at lower levels. The only way in which I might consider it faster is that it required active dodging.

---

For Wildstar, it's more dependent on the classes. Stalker gave more fast-paced gameplay, while others like Engineer were a bit slower. Class builds were also a factor.

As for the OP, I'd say not to worry simply because I'm not sure FFXIV servers could handle it.

While I would absolutely love a more modern and less ancient vanilla MMO combat system it wont happen in this game which is already designed around one from the ground up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylvina

While I would absolutely love a more modern and less ancient vanilla MMO combat system it wont happen in this game which is already designed around one from the ground up.

---

Going to have to wait till Final Fantasy XVII

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Super_Bee_Brian

I've read in one of these threads the suggestion for FASTER PACED combat. In a way, I was relieved because in said thread was a post that received 30 likes that was against faster paced combat.

Despite that, I'm worried that the faster paced combat suggestion might reach the ears of Yoshi-P and might actually HAPPEN.

Is there a good chance that we'll get faster paced combat? Please no. I like what we currently have.

---

Despite me being an advocate for faster paced action combat. Will it happen in FFXIV? I doubt it. Going to an action combat style will take the devs years to implement due to the sheer work involved remaking every class and every fight from scratch. Will it happen in their next MMO? That's a possibility and that's more or less what I'm personally hoping for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

I've never played Blade and Soul, but unless Wildstar speeds up significantly at higher levels, I'd consider it to be essentially the same speed as WoW. Certainly that was my experience with the few characters I played at lower levels. The only way in which I might consider it faster is that it required active dodging.

---

Having played both, Wildstar is kinda middle of the road. Guildwars 2 also felt like the same speed as Wildstar. A bit faster then WoW and a one bit more faster then FFXIV, but not nearly as fast as Blade and Soul or Tera is. This is going on end game perceptions as all the games really do feel slow at the start and ramp up the speed later on as players get used to the combat, new abilities are gotten and builds and gear open up more.

I haven't played a whole lot of other games but during my 2 years away from FFXIV, most recently I was playing Revelation Online. It was much faster paced and playing a Blademaster was... an interesting fun nightmare of constantly cancelling attacks lol. While I can say I really did like how it felt more alive because it was faster paced, I also really did not enjoy the limited selection of abilities. Maybe it's just having come from older point and click games. For the one I played for longest, I liked the insane amount of skills you had at your disposal, it made pvp amazing. I played a recent dumpster fire release a little too, and it kinda sucked how you only had a few skills to rotate through, and it was extremely clunky even given that. On one hand while I felt FFXIV was boring, coming back I appreciate that the overall combat system is at least "put together" for what it's supposed to be. It feels as though a lot of F2P games don't spend nearly as much time and effort on combat design as FFXIV did.

I doubt we'll see faster paced combat. That will essentially be a major adjustment to balance across the board. On top of that, the devs know things like Ninja exist, and anyone who's suggested the game be faster has clearly never touched the job.

Try to make the thread titles include a description of the content of the thread. This could have been 'Faster paced combat'

Even if all they did was shorten the GCD they would have to completely restructure the rest of the game's combat so it's completely unlikely.

Shortening the GCD probably wouldn't work either.

It's not that WoW is super fast, it's just far smoother. Abilities flow without that short server lag. Even if you macro 4 off-gcd's together, they all trigger instantly. If you press a button slightly too fast it simply queue's and flows after your current action. In ff14 however, sometimes you fire 3 Ninjitsu off and the server chokes, lags up and fails to register the 3rd one until you press again and end up with a bunny on your head.

FF14 servers simply aren't capable of faster or smoother combat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Shortening the GCD probably wouldn't work either.

It's not that WoW is super fast, it's just far smoother. Abilities flow without that short server lag. Even if you macro 4 off-gcd's together, they all trigger instantly. If you press a button slightly too fast it simply queue's and flows after your current action. In ff14 however, sometimes you fire 3 Ninjitsu off and the server chokes, lags up and fails to register the 3rd one until you press again and end up with a bunny on your head.

FF14 servers simply aren't capable of faster or smoother combat.

---

Basically this. The only good thing XIV's server tick gives us is slidecasting, really.

Yes! We need something more interactive than spamming 1-2-3-4!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Urthdigger

I doubt we'll see faster paced combat. That will essentially be a major adjustment to balance across the board. On top of that, the devs know things like Ninja exist, and anyone who's suggested the game be faster has clearly never touched the job.

---

Ninja is not fast if you are also playing games like tera or blade and soul.

They will never change the complete combat system, way to much work and way to many people would be overwhelmed and would stop playing, both isn't wat SE wants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilan

Ninja is not fast if you are also playing games like tera or blade and soul.

They will never change the complete combat system, way to much work and way to many people would be overwhelmed and would stop playing, both isn't wat SE wants.

---

SWG comes to mind always when talks about a complete combat style change comes up. It's the only game I recall that did such a drastic move and we saw what happened. A majority of the player base was alienated and eventually the game shut down for good. I like to think companies saw that and took it to heart about the risks of changing things drastically at a games core well long after it's been out.

Also yes on ninja, I don't play one but am going off my friends comments who does main a ninja and who joins me sometimes in BnS. They play a good ninja here and love the class, but comment from time to time about sometimes struggling to keep up with BnS game play speeds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Urthdigger

I doubt we'll see faster paced combat. That will essentially be a major adjustment to balance across the board. On top of that, the devs know things like Ninja exist, and anyone who's suggested the game be faster has clearly never touched the job.

---

NINs have the same CPM as some of the slower melee classes in WoW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aylis

SWG comes to mind always when talks about a complete combat style change comes up. It's the only game I recall that did such a drastic move and we saw what happened. A majority of the player base was alienated and eventually the game shut down for good. I like to think companies saw that and took it to heart about the risks of changing things drastically at a games core well long after it's been out.

Also yes on ninja, I don't play one but am going off my friends comments who does main a ninja and who joins me sometimes in BnS. They play a good ninja here and love the class, but comment from time to time about sometimes struggling to keep up with BnS game play speeds.

---

Yes because ninja is only a fast class in here, in other games it would be a freaking slow class. :D

I catch myself hammering buttons on ninja like i do in bns pretty often.

It would be far too much work and changes needed to re-work it. I do prefer combat like that of Tera for example and other MMo's that you can dodge and it is more fast paced and fluid. But it is what it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Faster combat works on WoW because they run more on a priority system, where you adapt to procs, charges and other resources to decide which buttons you press on the spot, rather than our 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 4, 1, 2, 3. WoW also has basically no server lag on instant cd's and abilities in general. Overall it flows more smoothly, though they've decided to screw around with it in BFA so that probably won't last.

To be honest, I strongly dislike FF14's combat and always have. I love the game despite the combat, not because of it. It's slow, clunky, unresponsive and the main reason the majority of players from other games try FF14 and decide it's not their cup of tea. That said, I strongly doubt the servers are capable of a rehaul and the combat is slow due to limitations rather than preference. I can't see any major changes happening in the forseeable future.

---

Jesus Christ no, faster combat /= better combat. I'm not too pleased with XIV's combat either, but turning the current combat system into an ugly flurry of clipped combat animations and furious button spam does not a fun nor interesting combat system make.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sacriel

Jesus Christ no, faster combat /= better combat. I'm not too pleased with XIV's combat either, but turning the current combat system into an ugly flurry of clipped combat animations and furious button spam does not a fun nor interesting combat system make.

---

i would actually love to see a ff game have a fast-paced combat like that for once. but they won't be doing it for this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilan

Yes because ninja is only a fast class in here, in other games it would be a freaking slow class. :D

I catch myself hammering buttons on ninja like i do in bns pretty often.

---

With Ninja, it's not about the speed so much as server lag and the typical issues with it that can cause Ninjutsu casts to be pretty unbearable at times.

For example, when I played on EU servers as an NA player, playing Ninja was doable, but always had interesting side effects for Mudra casts that I knew was related to server latency: casting one Ninjutsu ability and seeing the animations of two. A good example of this is whenever I wanted to cast Raiton, I'd hit the two Mudra, hit my Ninjutsu button (showing Raiton), and the animation for Fuma Shuriken would go off, then the Raiton animation and the damage numbers for Raiton would show up. Now that I'm on an NA server, I don't experience it unless the instance server lags during a raid or dungeon (which is usually during peak hours).

I've played proper action-based MMORPGs like Tera and Ping & Soul, and they're only as good as your latency is. They're also designed to have fewer buttons to press so you can pay more attention to combat. While gameplay speed is one thing and can be fun at times, the quality required of the servers is the make-or-break point for the quality of those games, which is why FFXIV has some advantage to having servers that lack a bit in the quality department.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

To be honest, I strongly dislike FF14's combat and always have. I love the game despite the combat, not because of it. It's slow, clunky, unresponsive and the main reason the majority of players from other games try FF14 and decide it's not their cup of tea. That said, I strongly doubt the servers are capable of a rehaul and the combat is slow due to limitations rather than preference. I can't see any major changes happening in the forseeable future.

---

Ironically I hate ffxivs combat because it's to fast and lacks substance. Nothing has any meat or impact to it. It's just endless flashes bangs and sparkles. I've played a Paladin since beta (well since 1.2) and I still couldn't visually tell you the difference between riot blade and savage blade for example. Same with jinpu and shifu and well loads of skills actually. They're all just glorified auto attacks that have added buffs and sparkles. None of it has any real substance.

I think the overall speed and pace is where it is though not due to limitations or anything like that but rather more of a
Attempted middle ground between players. It was one of the biggest talking points way back in alpha/beta. With a pretty huge split between people wanting it slowed down and with actual substance (ala 1.23) and people wanting it super fast and flashy (ala wow)

So I think what we got was the devs idea of a compromise. If I could I'd bring the 1.23 combat system back the one was was even shown in early screens and footage during alpha and stuff. Everything just felt more powerful and satisfying to use.

Was much better than what we currently have where it feels like I gotta batter the he'll out of buttons to essentially keep a glorified auto attack going. There's very little substance or variance in skills. Which is again why I couldn't tell you the visual difference between shifu and jump or gekko and kasha. And many many more

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

Ironically I hate ffxivs combat because it's to fast and lacks substance. Nothing has any meat or impact to it. It's just endless flashes bangs and sparkles. I've played a Paladin since beta (well since 1.2) and I still couldn't visually tell you the difference between riot blade and savage blade for example. Same with jinpu and shifu and well loads of skills actually. They're all just glorified auto attacks that have added buffs and sparkles. None of it has any real substance.

I think the overall speed and pace is where it is though not due to limitations or anything like that but rather more of a
Attempted middle ground between players. It was one of the biggest talking points way back in alpha/beta. With a pretty huge split between people wanting it slowed down and with actual substance (ala 1.23) and people wanting it super fast and flashy (ala wow)

So I think what we got was the devs idea of a compromise. If I could I'd bring the 1.23 combat system back the one was was even shown in early screens and footage during alpha and stuff. Everything just felt more powerful and satisfying to use.

Was much better than what we currently have where it feels like I gotta batter the he'll out of buttons to essentially keep a glorified auto attack going. There's very little substance or variance in skills. Which is again why I couldn't tell you the visual difference between shifu and jump or gekko and kasha. And many many more

---

Thank you. Every time i bring up the how boring and weightless the combat system in game, people act as if I committed sacrilege. What is it with people defending this? I literally think FFXII had a more meaty combat system. At least it felt as if you're hitting something.

Don't worry, if something will never change, it is this kind of thing. It is way too difficult and complicated to change from all the consequences, balances needed and all it would require.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazrah

With Ninja, it's not about the speed so much as server lag and the typical issues with it that can cause Ninjutsu casts to be pretty unbearable at times.

For example, when I played on EU servers as an NA player, playing Ninja was doable, but always had interesting side effects for Mudra casts that I knew was related to server latency: casting one Ninjutsu ability and seeing the animations of two. A good example of this is whenever I wanted to cast Raiton, I'd hit the two Mudra, hit my Ninjutsu button (showing Raiton), and the animation for Fuma Shuriken would go off, then the Raiton animation and the damage numbers for Raiton would show up. Now that I'm on an NA server, I don't experience it unless the instance server lags during a raid or dungeon (which is usually during peak hours).

I've played proper action-based MMORPGs like Tera and Ping & Soul, and they're only as good as your latency is. They're also designed to have fewer buttons to press so you can pay more attention to combat. While gameplay speed is one thing and can be fun at times, the quality required of the servers is the make-or-break point for the quality of those games, which is why FFXIV has some advantage to having servers that lack a bit in the quality department.

---

I don't have that issue after the EU servers moved to the EU, but before i knew that too. But the point was faster combat and the ninja is pretty much the fastest class in this game, but still extremly slow when you compare it to other games.

I wouldn't worry about it, Super Bee. As others have pointed out, it'll take a ton of work to speed up the combat system.

Most likely will see a faster paced combat in the next FF MMO. The successor of FFXIV which will probably be hinted at in the next 3 years since this game does have a 10 year lifespan.