[Suggestion] Account cleaning

As someone who has been playing this game for reaching over 6 years, I would like to make the suggestion that accounts should have a cleansing or "second chance" card/allowance of some sort.


No my account does not have negative strikes on it.

I am asking for other reasons (character deletions, and no my main character is not deleted either.)

1 strike or 1 action or 1 restoration, or 1 this or 1 that I feel is very very strict for such a game that can easily span upwards and beyond a decade.

I have 6 years and 15,000 hours of gameplay on this account.

I know of many other players who have had permanent bans, characters restored, items restored, the list goes on, and then their accounts never get a "second chance" even if its been 1 year, 2 years, whatever.

I would love to see either payments for character restorations or item restorations, as well as some kind of "leveling" system put in place for accounts with negative and positive strikes.

I feel its unfair to only gain negative strikes on your account, and they can never be forgiven.

Thank you so much for your time.

With "second chance" card you maybe help only 1 account out of 10,000 that deserves to be forever down. You cheat/rmt, you're down for good. Period.

The "false positive" account already have a chance of appeal, it is enough so there is no reason to give out free second chances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

I would love to see either payments for character restorations or item restorations, as well as some kind of "leveling" system put in place for accounts with negative and positive strikes.

---

So you want people who break rules to be able to buy themselves out of it? Sounds oddly familiar.

Well permanent ban = permanent ban. It's called "permanent" for a reason. Though perhaps a cooling off period for other infractions may be of use? That, I leave up for debate. Personally, I'm not sure I agree with it, but we'll see what others think.

As for the things like transfers, restores, etc, yes, I agree that maybe something should be done about that. The "One time forever" thing does seem strict for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkrateia

That being said, many cases like this are escalated to the SGMs and myself for consideration as an exception to the policy (both for how the item was lost or if the policy was already used by a customer). When considering an exception, we need to balance the context of the situation, fairness for all customers, and the workload for the GM team. You are always welcome to request the use of the item restoration policy, although these exceptions are not guaranteed.

---

The one-time restore is not absolute. You are guaranteed one restoration within technical bounds, but you can try to get more. The quote is from different context, but an already used restore is mentioned in the quote.

As for infractions, there are people who have received a 216h suspension + termination review more than once, and still haven't been terminated. If you receive infractions over a long period of time, they have no reason to permaban you if the circumstances are not particularly exceptional. While if you stack up infractions over a short period of time, they can tell what kind of a person they are dealing with and decide they don't want to provide service to them.

No. Just no. This basically turns rules into suggestions.

If someone gets an infraction, they already have a "second chance" method. Buy a new game and account. Do the crime, pay the price.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Well permanent ban = permanent ban. It's called "permanent" for a reason. Though perhaps a cooling off period for other infractions may be of use? That, I leave up for debate. Personally, I'm not sure I agree with it, but we'll see what others think.

As for the things like transfers, restores, etc, yes, I agree that maybe something should be done about that. The "One time forever" thing does seem strict for that.

---

From the forums, they should simply be able to appeal a ban, which AFAIK there isn't a way to do this, nor a way to even see if you've ever been subjected to a ban, unless it prevents you from logging into the forum I guess?

From the game on the other hand, RMT should be permaban, automated play should be permaban, and harassment of any short should be subjected to a cooldown first. RMT and Automated play ... the player absolutely knows they are doing something wrong to begin with, and slapping them on the wrist is not going to ever stop them. Harassment is different since it's difficult to tell the circumstances that triggered it. Was that person stressing out? Was that person another person's buddy and someone else in the party wasn't aware they banter that way. etc. I've known people who's casual language would look like harassment if you didn't hear the tone and context of it.

played since beta 1.0 and beta 2.0, no warnings yet thank goodness but still...There should be a every 7 years of your account your strikes/item refund gets forgiven..yes yes?

The second chance is them buying a new account/product key and not breaching ToS next time.

The past is the past, but it stays with you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sove92

The one-time restore is not absolute. You are guaranteed one restoration within technical bounds, but you can try to get more. The quote is from different context, but an already used restore is mentioned in the quote.

---

Have you tried this? Because I have.

https://i.imgur.com/yd5xIUD.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sove92

As for infractions, there are people who have received a 216h suspension + termination review more than once, and still haven't been terminated. If you receive infractions over a long period of time, they have no reason to permaban you if the circumstances are not particularly exceptional. While if you stack up infractions over a short period of time, they can tell what kind of a person they are dealing with and decide they don't want to provide service to them.

---

While I'm not trying to say you're wrong, there was literally a guy who rage posted here a few weeks ago his friend who had received a ban in 1.0 for swearing, 6 years ago, which counted towards his 3 strikes and is now permanently banned.

I mean, what are your sources that they are lenient? Because every account I've read regarding NA GM's here seems to suggest otherwise. They're certainly not consistent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Well permanent ban = permanent ban. It's called "permanent" for a reason. Though perhaps a cooling off period for other infractions may be of use? That, I leave up for debate. Personally, I'm not sure I agree with it, but we'll see what others think.

As for the things like transfers, restores, etc, yes, I agree that maybe something should be done about that. The "One time forever" thing does seem strict for that.

---

I can see why you would be on the fence but something needs to be done about 3 strikes your out, no matter how minor it is, goes with these forums too. Also what happens when 2 strikes happen within the first year, then the 3rd is done 5 years later? A bit much don't you think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I can see why you would be on the fence but something needs to be done about 3 strikes your out, no matter how minor it is, goes with these forums too. Also what happens when 2 strikes happen within the first year, then the 3rd is done 5 years later? A bit much don't you think?

---

Yeah, I can see that. But given people here have said your "second chance" is simply buying a new copy of the game and not breaking ToS next time, I can see SE not implementing this at all because of that. Why stop the gravy train when they can bludgeon you out of another £45 for base game + expansions because you made a few minor mishaps on your previous account over the space of say 15 years? Me personally, I tend to wipe out infractions that don't result in a permanent ban after like a couple of years of good behaviour. I do need to build some infrastructure to better manage that though. Head going into Visual Studio again at some point (training to become a C# developer).

While I am a firm believer in that actions have consequences and you should be punished if you break the rules.

I do believe that the punishment should be in level of the crime committed and think SE might be a bit harsh in doling out permanent bans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rockette

...there was literally a guy who rage posted here a few weeks ago his friend who had received a ban in 1.0 for swearing, 6 years ago, which counted towards his 3 strikes and is now permanently banned…

---

If after 6 years that guy is still swearing, getting account warnings, and raging in forums, I think the strike is well deserved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

If after 6 years that guy is still swearing, getting account warnings, and raging in forums, I think the strike is well deserved.

---

I said his friend was raging, not him.

Really? You think a 6 year old SWEARING infraction should count towards a permanent ban of a legacy account the guy maintained, played and loved for 6 years? Swearing. Not at someone, just swearing in general.

Seriously? Are we "thinking of the children" here or some such.

For minor infractions like swearing it would make a lot of sense for the 'black mark' against the account to have a set lifespan after which it would be wiped from the slate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rockette

snip

---

The GM didn't escalate your request, a regular GM cannot make the decision to grant an exception.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Any GM can escalate any concern for review for an exception, and a player can always ask for an escalation. That being said, the GMs are well versed in the types of exceptions that may be granted, so a GM's reluctance to escalate is usually due to prolonging an investigation that has a low chance of being granted an exception. This is usually due to wanting to provide a customer with an immediate resolution instead of a resolution that may take time, depending on how quickly it can be reviewed and a response sent back to the customer to inform them of the results. Escalations can also be used by GMs to expedite contacts with customers, allowing a SGM or myself to review the concern for a final decision while letting them assist other customers quicker.

LGM Enkrateia

---

As for the lenience. During the ungarmax debacle, there was at least one person who had already received a 216h suspension + termination review. He received a second 216h for using ungarmax and was expected to get permabanned, but he wasn't terminated. You can find the story from reddit by looking for ungarmax related threads. Can't really say names on this forum.

Been playing online games since 2001. Had only one strike (was Runescape, told a friend I knew a Moderator - someone reported me for saying I was a Moderator, which fell under impersonation. Got 8/10 strikes against the account (10 means you're banned), appealed it, pointing out in their own screenshot, you can clearly see me saying I know one, not I am one and completely got all of my strikes reversed).

Over the years, I've come to reason that if you do a lot of common sense things, you're never going to run into situations of being reprimanded. To me, it's really hard to gain strikes as it is. Forums are a little bit of a different story, especially on these forums, but still mostly true (specifically in the forums, it really looks like they take language in a much higher weight in game. Makes sense since swearing generally comes off as overtly aggressive, creates more problems and is typically not something viewed favorably on forums; the easy way to avoid this is to mind your language).

Generally, places ban accounts, not IPs. IPs are near impossible to enforce. Banned accounts just mean you can go and create another account if you really want to play the game.

A lot of the stuff, like one-time-item-restoration is a mistake made, I've learned from it kind of deal. You should really be more careful and there's a point in time when you just shouldn't have your hand held anymore and personal responsibility should take hold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

You cheat/rmt, you're down for good. Period.

---

Who on earth said anything about cheating or RMT activity?

Did you even read the post?

I said item restoration/character restoration, and strikes against your account should deserve another option except “one time only” or “you said a curse word in chat or on the forums, 2 more in the history of ever and you’re out.”

That’s what I am talking about.

Period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remyogic

Do the crime, pay the price.

---

So you’re saying having your child in your living room while you go cook, leaving the game on, and your kid deletes your character is a crime?

Or simply using adult words in chat as descriptors or simply saying a curse word as discriptors on the forums is also a crime and no one should ever be forgiven?

You are not aware some people just curse naturally and don’t ever intend it to be offensive? But claim it’s a crime?

Ok.

Also, I will repeat. I have absolutely 0 strikes on this game for behavior.

I am also not talking about rage players or people who are out of hand. I’m talking about:

Item restoration.
Character restoration
And small infractions such as cursing in chat

And other similar seemingly innocent, but very un-forgiven by Square-Enix incidents.

This won't ever happen.

The SE staff sees using curse words as a crime that deserves a warning or a ban. No, not insulting or harassing, just using random curse words just in how you speak.

That's a ban worthy crime apparently.

Being able to conduct yourself professionally is a task for some.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

Being able to conduct yourself professionally is a task for some.

---

Some people like to relax and let loose, sometimes.

Also some people make mistakes.

I personally would never claim to be perfect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

~snip~
I am also not talking about rage players or people who are out of hand. I’m talking about:

~snip~
~snip~
And small infractions such as cursing in chat

And other similar seemingly innocent, but very un-forgiven by Square-Enix incidents.

---

This infraction absolutely makes no sense. You can curse like a sailor, for the most part, in game (apply common sense here, no slurs or anything). The only way you'd possibly get an infraction in game (forums are separate) with this is... avoiding language filters. It's an opt out setting to remove the filter. Basically, you knew exactly what you were doing that would warrant this punishment to take place. You need some semblance of personal responsibility over your behavior.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

So you’re saying having your child in your living room while you go cook, leaving the game on, and your kid deletes your character is a crime?

---

No. But it is certainly against terms of service. If anything, them not banning you for account sharing is already being lenient on their rules.

The game is for you to play and no one is allowed to have access to it. You take full responsibility for it. Even if you leave the room for a moment for a call of nature, it is your responsibility to make sure that no one will be able to mess anything up for you. Sorry, but someone that have a kid have two options.

1) Teach them not to touch certain stuff, one of those being the computer, unless explicitly given permission.
2) Adapt their lifestyle around the kid touching stuff even if you explicitly ban it. This is the only option for very young kids...too bad. Tough luck. Knew what you're getting into when working towards having a child.


There is no reason whatsoever to offer any more character/item restoration. Unless it's caused by a bug/hacking (at no fault of the account owner), at which point I'm quite sure these don't count towards the limit anyway. Think what you are doing. Don't delete stuff blindly and don't delete stuff if you don't need to. Like people deleting their alts because they "think" they will no longer use them, even if they don't need the slot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Or simply using adult words in chat as descriptors or simply saying a curse word as discriptors on the forums is also a crime and no one should ever be forgiven?

---

It's against terms of service. That's why you may end up with a ban, not a court case.

Personally I think that there should be "lighter" and "heavier" offenses, with there being varied punishments based on which one is accumulated. Random swearing would be the lighter one, unless done specifically to bypass filter and the like. But hey. It's not like that and you should know it the moment you begun playing the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

You are not aware some people just curse naturally and don’t ever intend it to be offensive? But claim it’s a crime?

---

Are you aware that, yes, in real life you could be fined repeatedly for swearing "naturally"?! That's a horrible habit that have no grounds to begin with. If someone doesn't deal with it enough to be able to watch their tongue (heck, "fingers" in this case!), then they should be ready to deal with the repercussions. Take responsibility for your traits...Not only the good ones, but the bad ones too.

I don't know. I mean, I'm in the camp that would never get a strike because we never do anything to get them: Log on, play them game, follow the ToS, log off. No problems, ever, other than the rare troll who tempts me to break the rules. That's not a systemic issue though.

Do players get strikes and bans under false pretenses? Even if this is the case, you will need to look at the players you're surrounding yourself and fraternizing with. If you hang out with the wrong crowd, you'll get caught in the net that is cast to reel them in.

I still get the feeling something is going on here that I am not aware of. But for the most part, I am always going to agree that if you don't play by their rules, then the have every right to not allow you play. Doesn't really matter how miniscule the offense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

I don't know. I mean, I'm in the camp that would never get a strike because we never do anything to get them: Log on, play them game, follow the ToS, log off. No problems, ever, other than the rare troll who tempts me to break the rules. That's not a systemic issue though.

---

ToS breakage is a systemic problem by raiders due to parsers. Broken Windows theory.

Quote:

---

broken windows theory A theory in criminology supported by various experiments regarding the norm-setting and signalling effects of urban chaos (e.g., broken windows, disrepair of buildings, poorly groomed parks, etc.) and vandalism on further crime and anti-social behaviour.

While interpretations of the data differ according to the author, the experiments suggest that correction of small problems—which, if left in disrepair, signal an indifference to the community by the powers of authority—prevents that negative message from extending to an entire building, institution or section of a community.

---

So the result of that is "SE doesn't do anythiing", and I've seen that in other games, where people will violate the ToS with impunity even on official forums. Outside of official forums people readily admit to what crimes they engage in, such as reddit, and discord. Those involved can't "narc" on anyone else otherwise they will be admitting to the same crimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

Do players get strikes and bans under false pretenses? Even if this is the case, you will need to look at the players you're surrounding yourself and fraternizing with. If you hang out with the wrong crowd, you'll get caught in the net that is cast to reel them in.

I still get the feeling something is going on here that I am not aware of. But for the most part, I am always going to agree that if you don't play by their rules, then the have every right to not allow you play. Doesn't really matter how miniscule the offense.

---

As far as I know and remember, earlier community management moderators were a lot more aggressive to banning profanity, while ignoring rules about data mining. If you note, if you click the "report" icon, you can only report people for being rude, you can't report them for ToS violations.

The game itself however, GM's actively monitor the chat system, or have much lower tolerance for profanity, because I know of players who were given temp bans for just profanity. There is an active pushback against language that is racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic, in all games, but other games have voice chat to consider.

To be fair, it's not like SE gives bans like handouts (generally). So if by chance you manage to actually pull it off then you probably did well and deserve it, and something like that doesn't shouldn't really have a second chance. An appeal is enough if that's not sufficient and your account remains banned, then you have paid the price for breaking the ToS - Which need I might add people should have read when signing up.

Granted I've elected to skim the entire thread now, whether it's a small infraction such as cursing in chat, that is still explicitly stated in the ToS. If people get warned or banned for it then it probably wasn't a 1-off.

As for item and character restoration, I don't think this feature should be strictly limited to once per account through the entire lifespan of the game. Particularly when in some cases people aren't fully aware of this when restoring items. I may be recalling incorrectly but when I went to get an item restore on my blank ceremony invitations, nothing was mentioned of the limitation, again, if I remember correctly so I could be wrong. I do think there should be a time period where this 'rule' is reset. Or this rule/limitation should be explicitly prompted to you prior to using the service

But again, infractions, minor or major should be punished, reasonably and in severity of the act(s) committed. Reading and following the terms of service is not a difficult.

The item restoration policy should be changed to once per year at the very least, a game that could span over a decade shouldn't have an once in a lifetime restoration. It's things like this why people in MMO forums say FFXIV has bad customer service, there's no such limitation in WoW or even in f2p games.

I'm okay with character restoration being once in a lifetime because that's not something you do by accident, you can regret it once, but not twice.

For infractions I think all infractions should have an expiration date, make it long, something like 2-3 years. It would absolutely makes no sense to ban someone in 2020 because they said something bad in 2013.