Any point to bringing a healer in Rathalos EX?

A tank could probably work their way in as their DPS isn't *that* far below DPS jobs, they have utility like shields, and tank CDs are pretty powerful.

But healer DPS is pretty terribad. And with no spell-based rezzing and an anti-magic-healing debuff...

Is this going to be a DPS+tank party? :/

It'll probably be best to just bring 4 dps.

Sigh. Well that's a disappointment. Finally get 4 person high end content and SE does this...

It's a damage oriented game.
If people could do away with a tank and healer or two in any content, they absolutely would.

So really, this is to be expected.

And this is coming from a tank main.

This is how it's suppose to go down according to this post that I just saw:
https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...64&oe=5BD52ECD

Yeah it's very exciting.
I can understand of you only have a healer levelled you might be worried, but that's motivation to either level and and learn a new class, or work on that healer dps!

We won't know how viable anything is until it's out though.

The struggles, not even a scholar barrier ( brought from aldo or succor) would help. I'm curious on exactly how long the debuff will last and whether the potions ( not just applying hp) will reduce the timer on the debuff. Just in case, I'll be sure to get my monk to level 70 if people start to leave healers behind.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

It's a damage oriented game.

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Yet... somehow I doubt they adopted FF14 roles on the MHW side of the crossover.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

or work on that healer dps!

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The problem with this is healer DPS is crap even at the highest levels. There's simply no potential for it to come close to a proper DPS or even tank, no matter how much you work on it.

If the debuff is spell-based healing only, 4x warrior comps will probably still be a thing, and CDs generally will still have value. A bit different from "the majority of your kit now has no effect."

all I see s a nice big challenge to clear it with 4 healers

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Yet... somehow I doubt they adopted FF14 roles on the MHW side of the crossover.

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They vaguely mentioned something about hitting the head of Behemoth causing it to target you more, akin to a tank holding enmity here, so there's that.

You know when it says it's prevents healing by magic, does this cover abilities as well? Because it seems that SCH could work on this content as the Aetherflow actions are not magic, and neither is Fairy Regen since the change so surely healers are not going to be completely ignored for this?

This is something new. I’m excited. They wont do this for all future fights.

You can bring anything and win. Do you really think SE designed content where healers won't be able to clear? C'mon now.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

You can bring anything and win. Do you really think SE designed content where healers won't be able to clear? C'mon now.

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Per the topic title. It's less "healers can't win." More "what's the point?"

Are we going to see most PFs for this locked to 4 DPS? That's what I'm worried about. I hope the debuff is only a few seconds, and not something like a deep dungeon floor wide thing...

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Originally Posted by Kurando

You know when it says it's prevents healing by magic, does this cover abilities as well? Because it seems that SCH could work on this content as the Aetherflow actions are not magic, and neither is Fairy Regen since the change so surely healers are not going to be completely ignored for this?

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Hard to say. Incurable in Kefka definitely blocks all healing. But ability-based healing has been used to get around spell-based debuffs before.

Unfortunately the reddit translations usually aren't accurate enough to have any confidence in this kind of distinction - if it was even specifically mentioned.

I'd certainly hope there's no point in bringing a healer there.

Because bringing a healer can only have two points:
1. You absolutely need one because there's too much unavoidable damage you just cannot survive otherwise
2. To trivialize encounters by undoing the consequences of mistakes in encounters where damage is avoidable, i.e. a consequence of a mistake

It'd be a very refreshing change of pace if the first point would not be the case and it would obviously not be a good thing if the second point was the case. I must admit, for the first time in a long while, a piece of content actually caught my interest for reasons other than the rewards. I bet they'll botch it somehow. They're typically not good at doing things outside their usual formula. We'll see soon enough, I guess.

Here's hoping that there's some use for us. I mean MHW isn't devoid of support builds (Speed Eating + Wide Range 5 right?) And of course everyone ignore that hunting horns with health buffs and palico gadgets exist. I am hoping this is a timed debuff that renders healing null and void during parts of the fight but not the whole thing.

Yeah I mean, it's not like Monster Hunter has no support builds, and that the only way to sustain is with mega potions. That's a flat out lie. Hell one of the first things you get access to is the health booster, and a good player saves lives constantly with lifepowders. Everyone does damage, but you sure as heck can bring defensive safety options at the cost of damage.

There's tons of ways to make healing safer but not required in a fight. You just have to limit it as well in some capacity, and it takes balancing. Imagine only having access to cure and cure 2, but with something like 5-6x mana cost. Now you're really thinking of whether you want to dump that cure 2 or if the person will get away with a mega potion. That's far from the only way to try it, too. Even if they disabled everyone's healing entirely and gave healers a pet bar with a 30-60s CD lustrate equivalent, that's something. Having extra potions for yourself if on a healer would be something, too. Or giving your potions a small wide-range effect. It doesn't have to be much to feel like you bring at least something to the table.

I'm not saying it's easy to adjust the system as such, but it's not like it's impossible to make a healer bring pros along with the cons of reduced damage output, but still not be required. Whether they have the capabilities to do so is another question, but I sincerely hope they're not thinking of making a huge crossover event and then say "What? You don't have a DPS leveled? Well, really you're just...not wanted in this content at ALL, you bring absolutely no redeeming qualities over a DPS". That is NOT the best way to incentivize others to level another job. We talk about class balance already and what can happen when a job is deemed 'useless' - this is a further level. This is a worry that you are literally worth 50% or less of the other players, and that is a completely fair worry for someone to have whether you think it's novel/neat or not.

It comes down to the same thing it always has in terms of classes. Wanting to make sure you bring something to the table - even if you're not the ideal setup, you have *a* cool or useful thing.

Yea sure I've got DPS leveled, I'm covered no matter what. However, even if it ends up being fun as heck to play it's not a design philosophy I can support when you have an established playerbase and an event that has some of the most excitement of any event they've done. I wouldn't be satisfied if they just boosted healer damage during it and left it at that, but I suppose that'd be a potential answer to this issue. Regardless, we'll see how it turns out in a few weeks.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not particularly worried. This thread houses a valid concern, but I don't think it'll come to pass as I believe they'll have something in play to not make you feel bad for coming on a healer or tank, given how much effort they've already spent in modifying the playstyle of this fight. But we won't know till we see it.

This content has not been developped with only how fights FFXIV works in general.
Besides, they also mentionned that they were afraid that if the healer dies (since they would be alone), it would be the end (outside of situation where you'd have a smn or a rdm).

Bring every comp you want it doesn't really matter.
This allows to have a new approach of a battle in FFXIV outside of dungeons and classic extreme fights.

I think it's great, we needeed something new.

-Healing magic nerfed for fight.
-No aggro tables.

How long until some DPS starts blaming healers and tanks for them dying because they didn't dodge?

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

-Healing magic nerfed for fight.
-No aggro tables.

How long until some DPS starts blaming healers and tanks for them dying because they didn't dodge?

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They can heal themselves there is a potion duty action like Vril in lackshimi or gravity in o2/s


If you want to play healer just be healer
Its going by MH philosophy where there are no roles you're just fighting a monster yes monster hunter has some cases of support but everyone still should be hitting the monster and not corner horning or spamming life powder.
Healer utility still be nice shield,Cards and rathalos might even give players fireblight and esuna might be needed.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

They can heal themselves there is a potion duty action like Vril in lackshimi or gravity in o2/s

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I...I know. It's why I made the comment.

Because some DPS will still blame the healers.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Healer utility still be nice shield,Cards and rathalos might even give players fireblight and esuna might be needed.

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Esuna maybe... Cards are only an AST thing, what's with WHM and SCH? and shields are based on healing. no healing means no shields. okay WHM's shield is based on max HP, but it has a cooldown. DRK's TBN will do the job better, while he also does more damage and survives longer than a healer.

The Armor is ugly though, I wanted the cute kirin armor. :(


Also what about Dark Knight Souleater healing? Will that be disabled?

How are we supposed to dodge? No roll dodging in this game.Think im going MCH.

For the first clear, I think you would want to bring a healer just in case and to see if it could do it without him.

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Originally Posted by Selvokaz

Also what about Dark Knight Souleater healing? Will that be disabled?

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Given that nobody ever wants to stay in Grit, that's not really a change.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Given that nobody ever wants to stay in Grit, that's not really a change.

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This tank is trying to change that, when im in a party with a healer, you can bet your bottom dollar ill be in tank stance 100% of the time. I believe in roles doing their job unless it specifically requires they don't such as when they are in solo content.

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Originally Posted by Selvokaz

How are we supposed to dodge? No roll dodging in this game.

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there is also no animation lock here, so you can just walk out of the danger zone at any time.

Hi everyone. This thread has been dormant for a few weeks, but I thought I'd ask here instead of creating a new thread just for my question.

Now that people are doing Rathalos EX, do you think there is any need to have a healer?

I have tried WHM and then AST with learning parties and still haven't cleared it.

Between watching the party list for cures and Esuna, chasing after people who go too far, and keeping an eye on Rathalos to dodge with very short reaction times, I'm usually the one that dies 2 or 3 times causing a reset.

I want to clear this fight, but it's so frustrating as a healer that I am ready to give up and go as DPS instead.

Honestly seems like the go-to party config that I can see in PF is x3 tanks and a healer for esuna. If not that, than x4 tanks. It's actually the DPS getting ditched lmao

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Hi everyone. This thread has been dormant for a few weeks, but I thought I'd ask here instead of creating a new thread just for my question.

Now that people are doing Rathalos EX, do you think there is any need to have a healer?

I have tried WHM and then AST with learning parties and still haven't cleared it.

Between watching the party list for cures and Esuna, chasing after people who go too far, and keeping an eye on Rathalos to dodge with very short reaction times, I'm usually the one that dies 2 or 3 times causing a reset.

I want to clear this fight, but it's so frustrating as a healer that I am ready to give up and go as DPS instead.

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It's easier if you go in as heal with 3 tanks, because even when they mess up, they will survive unlike a dps. They can also take the stack mark alone, so you only have to use esuna on one person.
If you end up with the standard comp, never let more than 2 people stack. Stack mark + tank, that is more than enough to surive. I have seen groups where all 4 people thought they had to stack together - that's a waste of potions and makes dispeling the fire debuffs unnecessary difficult. Also don't stand far away from Rathalos, staying behind him is the safer place. If he turns in your direction, run immediately. Same goes for the dps. Als tell the dps to not use their full rotations when he is flying, spamming an gcd spell/action is more efficient, as this is what takes Rathalos down - not the damage dealt.

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Originally Posted by supaiku

It's easier if you go in as heal with 3 tanks, because even when they mess up, they will survive unlike a dps. They can also take the stack mark alone, so you only have to use esuna on one person.
If you end up with the standard comp, never let more than 2 people stack. Stack mark + tank, that is more than enough to surive. I have seen groups where all 4 people thought they had to stack together - that's a waste of potions and makes dispeling the fire debuffs unnecessary difficult. Also don't stand far away from Rathalos, staying behind him is the safer place. If he turns in your direction, run immediately. Same goes for the dps. Als tell the dps to not use their full rotations when he is flying, spamming an gcd spell/action is more efficient, as this is what takes Rathalos down - not the damage dealt.

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Thank you! Very helpful. ^^

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Originally Posted by Kidria

Honestly seems like the go-to party config that I can see in PF is x3 tanks and a healer for esuna. If not that, than x4 tanks. It's actually the DPS getting ditched lmao

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Pretty much this. It's... a bit of an ironic twist.

DPS can do it, but they need vit melds or a decent health boosting food to survive long enough for esuna to matter, and even then, it's just much easier with tanks.

Warrior works especially well since so much of its DPS is in a burst window, so you knock Rathalos down and let them go to town on him.

I seem to have the best luck in parties with 2 tanks, a healer, and a melee dps. Without a dps you pretty much waste the limit break, and without a healer it can be hard to survive the phase transition where one person is mounted and another takes multiple tank busters from the garula.

I personally prefer to tank this one, although I've run it a few times as dps, too. Haven't tried healing it yet, though.

They don’t need vit melds and while food helps unless they are severely under geared they should be fine unless they are eating dirt all the time. I ran with a rdm who had 39000 and she did fine and even when she did get hit me or the brd we had could remove the dot preventing death. Multiple tanks is the go to comp because people can make all kinds of mistakes and not wipe.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

DPS can do it, but they need vit melds or a decent health boosting food to survive long enough for esuna to matter, and even then, it's just much easier with tanks.

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Because it's more of a potency fight than mechanics, I feel like it will be very easy starting from patch 4.4 with the new gear available to survive everything even while failing to dodge. In current 370 gear it already doesn't quite 1-hit-KO a healer or dps if they were topped off before failing to dodge. Difficulty should be similar to Odin with overgearing, and fully training dummy mode if unsynced in future expansions.