No dresser furnishing. How about dressing rooms?

Yoshida explained at E3 that it would be difficult to make dressers into a housing item that can be placed anywhere due to the amount of data associated with them.

As a compromise, how about a separate instance for them accessible by the same door that leads to workshops and private chambers. These dressing rooms would have the dresser at a fixed position like inn rooms have and would be a nice convenience for anyone who belongs to an FC with an estate.

You mean the glamour dresser? Either way, your suggestion would be unfortunate for people not in FCs with estates. Unless it can somehow be incorporated into apartments as well.

I think the OP's idea could work with one adjustment. Make a "door" furnishing that can be placed against a wall and used to enter the proposed "dressing room".

In re: "difficult to make dressers into a housing item that can be placed anywhere", it's not about difficulty of implementation. The point isn't that furniture can be moved, or that the movabilty of furniture might somehow cause problems. It's about data access and transfer. If using the dresser feels inconvenient, then it's doing its job--namely, reducing the frequency with which the data gets accessed and sent across the network by requiring that we go out of our way to use it. They don't want to allow access points in places where people already are likely to spend lots of their downtime.

I like this idea. Barring that, they can make an item like the Silver Bell that tells you you'll be cut off from the rest of the game for a while until you're done with the character modifications. The key issue here seems to be the need to put you in a separate, dedicate instance which the inn-room provides, but it's not like they haven't done things like that in the past

If it's not possible for a housing item or in-house door, I'd be happy if there's a location where we can do these 4 things together:
1) Aesthetician
2) Retainer Bell
3) Glamour Dresser
4) Craft (for dyes and sometimes gear)

Currently in Inn Rooms we have 1, 2 and 3; in GC Barracks 3 and 4.

It's not critical but my goldfish brain forgets to craft dyes before going into the zone sometimes so it's an episode in comedy:
Title: Glaming in the Inn
"I have this really cool idea for a glam dress! Let's put it together!"
"Aww shucks I need X dye"
*Unable to craft in Inn Room*
"Ah. I'll exit and craft"
*Exits Inn Room. Searches inventory for pigment. None found*
"Blimey! I forgot the pigments! They're with my retainers"
*Enters Inn Room. Gets pigment from retainer. Exits Inn Room*
"Alright! Let's craft this"
*Crafts dye. Returns to Inn room. Dyes glamour*
"Hmm... I think this needs a hairstyle change"
*Calls Aesthetician. Changes hair style and colour*
"Hmm... wonder how this goes with a different colour of glam"
*Previews in glam dresser. Decides on another colour*
"Aww shucks I need X dye"
*Unable to craft in Inn Room*
"Ah. I'll exit and craft..." *Twilight Zone Music*

Nothing that some pre-planning cannot solve and it'll instill in me some minor organisational skills (like keeping pigments in Chocobo saddle). Still. I need a hero (or QoL tweak ^ ^; ) to save me from myself.

End-credits scene: *Walks to GC Barracks.* "Hey! I have this really cool idea for a glam dress! Let's put it toge..." *Outro Music*

I thought 4.3 added the ability to craft in inn rooms.

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Originally Posted by Pastahnak

I thought 4.3 added the ability to craft in inn rooms.

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OMG! Thank you for letting me know this!

It's like me trying to 'wind' down car windows by looking for the physical winder, where to put the cassette tape in an iPOD, finding the turning part of a sensor tap, or in a few more years (maybe) figuring out the three sea shells (old Demolition Man Ref).

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Originally Posted by Rongway

snip

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I'm having trouble finding a full transcript to show you, but I watched the stream live and this is what Yoshida talked about, not something I made up. There is specifically a technical issue in making it a housing item that can be moved around, otherwise they would do it.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

In re: "difficult to make dressers into a housing item that can be placed anywhere", it's not about difficulty of implementation. The point isn't that furniture can be moved, or that the movabilty of furniture might somehow cause problems. It's about data access and transfer. If using the dresser feels inconvenient, then it's doing its job--namely, reducing the frequency with which the data gets accessed and sent across the network by requiring that we go out of our way to use it. They don't want to allow access points in places where people already are likely to spend lots of their downtime.

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I call BS on this. We already have the Armoire, which functionally serves a similar purpose. Likewise, they used a comparable excuse regarding items being destroyed yet backpedaled when the backlash became too much and overwhelmed their GMs. Do I think there are issues? Absolutely. But I feel it's far more probable they simply don't care to invest in remedy them at the moment since this whole system isn't something they wanted to do in the first place. Either way, the excuses get tiring. We're now two expansions in and it's the same thing every single time. At this point, I would rather a halt in content so they could fix the damn servers because it's always something.

my solutions:
make a glam log (like what we see in wow and other games)
have the game be fixed where it stops having ps2 limtations from having a poor netcode from resending data unnessercy for 1-3 seconds because guess what? it does nothing to prevent hacking.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I'm having trouble finding a full transcript to show you, but I watched the stream live and this is what Yoshida talked about, not something I made up. There is specifically a technical issue in making it a housing item that can be moved around, otherwise they would do it.

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There always seems to be some insurmountable technical issue when Yoshida isn't interested in doing something.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

my solutions:
make a glam log (like what we see in wow and other games)
have the game be fixed where it stops having ps2 limtations from having a poor netcode from resending data unnessercy for 1-3 seconds because guess what? it does nothing to prevent hacking.

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10000x this. Please.

A glamour log that we can complete would just be so good. Everyone would be running old content to complete their glamour logs. Could have bonus sets on achievements with it. Make it so instead of holding all that info, you could just try it all on from your glamour uncatalogued, then order it in via mail if you want it as an item on you.

Edit: There could be a namazu wardrobe helper that would randomise roll you an outfit. It could be hilarious.

IT COULD BE SO MUCH MORE SQUARE.

What really upsets me is that there is a mod that I obviously won't name, or use, that does exactly this. Lets you try on and create and outfit from any piece in the game without you having them in your possession. If some rando no one can create this system, why can't SE?

I'm not sure why they programmed any of it to have issues if the furniture is moved? It's not like we're interacting with the object constantly after clicking it. The click should serve as the function call for retainers, dressers, fc vault, etc and then the game should care less if someone phases the interactive item into the void while you're standing there.

The more accessibility to the glamour dressers, the better and this is probably the next step they will go towards. If there was an uproar due to some players not having access to a FC house or apartment, they would need to calm down because it isn't like they are losing anything with that kind of implementation. Through inns, they will still have access to just about everything as a house (players are still without gardening access without a personal plot or FC). They do have a cozy place to log out though :)

Because my house is basically my hub, more often than not I am going to port to wherever they add additional access to a glamour dresser from there, so it is only a minor increase in convenience for what would likely be a lot of work for the devs. It might be different for other players but my own QoL wouldn't be drastically changed by this addition.

Why not a Duty Finder &/or Teleport location to take you to a place where you can glamour? It doesn't need to be fancy & can even be a teleport direct into a chosen Inn room. At the moment the whole rigmarole is a bit convoluted, especially if you leave the Inn, start doing something, then realise that you meant to glam an item. >_<

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Originally Posted by Doozer

You mean the glamour dresser? Either way, your suggestion would be unfortunate for people not in FCs with estates. Unless it can somehow be incorporated into apartments as well.

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They could add a dressing room to the apartments too.

I'm confident the dresser will come as a furniture, he said that it's difficult to make, but as some have said we already have similar objects as a furnitures as such they just need to sort things out

They should have just expanded the armoire or given us a glamour log instead of this clunky dresser system.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

They should have just expanded the armoire or given us a glamour log instead of this clunky dresser system.

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A glamour catalog does not improve the data retrieval situation.

As of this post, there are 2,713 weapons; 628 tools; 6,913 visible armors (7735 armors minus 822 belts); and 2,428 accessories. Uncompressed, maintaining a record of all glamours would require 1.28 kB per character.

XIVCensus shows that at some point in June, there were 11.7 million characters. At 1.28 kB per character, just glamour catalog data would be about 15.0 GB.

Of course, storage space is probably not a real modern day issue. However, XIVCensus estimates about 0.6 million "active characters", based on Stormblood story progress (so not including potentially quite active characters who just haven't made it that far in the story yet, and maybe including characters who reached the specific milestone event in the story and then quit). If each of these half million or so characters accesses a 1.28 kB glamour log just once a week, it will require 730 MB of data retrieval and transfer, or roughly 2.9 GB of data retrieval and transfer per month. If they averaged one access per day, it would require 21.9 GB of data retrieval and transfer per month.

Now think about all the people who would want to access their glamour catalog multiple times in one hour.

If the devs don't think it's prudent to allow freedom of access to the little incomplete glamour dresser we have now, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything like a catalog.

I just want to be able to use glamour plates outside of cities (and maybe 5 more plates), I would not mind only having inn room and barracks for the dresser if that was the case. (No plates inside of instances tho)

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Originally Posted by Rongway

A glamour catalog does not improve the data retrieval situation.

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I was more talking from a usability standpoint but a catalog would improve some of the data retrieval because it's not retrieving information related to stats, melds, creation, quality, etc. That's why when you put gear into the dresser or armoire those customizations get removed. A catalog would ideally be a system that checks was this item obtained - yes/no. At that point, the item itself can be gotten rid of - turned in for seals, desynthesized, vendored, destroyed, etc.

The excuses, however, are just getting to be too much.

I just want an inn room, or at least a "changing room" in the Gold Saucer (well, and more plates and stuff but that's a separate issue.) It's kind of insane that there's an entire gear and glamour focused event there but no way to set new glamours without leaving and coming back.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

A glamour catalog does not improve the data retrieval situation.

As of this post, there are 2,713 weapons; 628 tools; 6,913 visible armors (7735 armors minus 822 belts); and 2,428 accessories. Uncompressed, maintaining a record of all glamours would require 1.28 kB per character.

XIVCensus shows that at some point in June, there were 11.7 million characters. At 1.28 kB per character, just glamour catalog data would be about 15.0 GB.

Of course, storage space is probably not a real modern day issue. However, XIVCensus estimates about 0.6 million "active characters", based on Stormblood story progress (so not including potentially quite active characters who just haven't made it that far in the story yet, and maybe including characters who reached the specific milestone event in the story and then quit). If each of these half million or so characters accesses a 1.28 kB glamour log just once a week, it will require 730 MB of data retrieval and transfer, or roughly 2.9 GB of data retrieval and transfer per month. If they averaged one access per day, it would require 21.9 GB of data retrieval and transfer per month.

Now think about all the people who would want to access their glamour catalog multiple times in one hour.

If the devs don't think it's prudent to allow freedom of access to the little incomplete glamour dresser we have now, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything like a catalog.

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this can't be right, did you take out all the repeated models or just added up all the gear available to the game? Also I believe wow has more glam count then that anyway, minus weapons. Wow has 4755 (another class 5057) different gear looks in its log, so that is not an excuse. The only reason the Devs did not do a glam log is because they are out of touch with the playerbase, do not know what we are asking, and hoping we will find a system ok that is cheaper for them to make.

Also note this is just a LOG of what gear you obtained, you are not carrying 5k worth of gear data on your character. Do you think the fishing log, gathering log, crafting log is always active? it would be no different then those.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

The excuses, however, are just getting to be too much.

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I doono what is worse, excuses from the dev team/yoshi-p or those from other players.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

this can't be right, did you take out all the repeated models or just added up all the gear available to the game?

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You also have to take dyes into account. That's literally 100+ versions of any given item.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

You also have to take dyes into account. That's literally 100+ versions of any given item.

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Not all of the dye information has to be stored separately with each person, that isn't even how it works now. You would have the base undyed version in your log and then just like you do now you would apply the dyes individually.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

You also have to take dyes into account. That's literally 100+ versions of any given item.

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No you don't, see Elamys' post. The game does not keep track of dyes in your crafting log. This is the thing, ALL SE had to do was to make a glam log from using how the crafting log works as a base, it shouldn't been that hard given what we get with the crafting log!

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Originally Posted by Elamys

a catalog would improve some of the data retrieval because it's ... a system that checks was this item obtained - yes/no.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Also note this is just a LOG of what gear you obtained, you are not carrying 5k worth of gear data on your character. Do you think the fishing log, gathering log, crafting log is always active? it would be no different then those.

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This is the exact situation I outlined and provided numbers for. Using one bit for each glamourable item that exists today, holding no information whatsoever other than 'acquired?', it will require 1.28 kB per character. Note that keeping a log of just what you've collected would take even more, as it would take two bytes per item, and would exceed this after obtaining 641 items, which is only 5% of the items currently in game.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

The excuses, however, are just getting to be too much.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I doono what is worse, excuses from the dev team/yoshi-p or those from other players.

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The point is this:

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Originally Posted by Rongway

If the devs don't think it's prudent to allow freedom of access to the little incomplete glamour dresser we have now, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything like a catalog.

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an outlook whose accuracy has zero dependence on how anyone feels about the quality or validity of any of the reasons given.

Can we just have a way to teleport directly to the inn?

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Originally Posted by Rongway

excuses

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FFXIV is a hugely successful MMO, probably the only real competitor WoW has in terms of numbers despite the big gap still between them. There's no reason Square can't do this one simple thing we are asking because other games, smaller games, crappier games, do it easily, and it's time we hold SE accountable for all their "but the serveeeeeerrrrrr" excuses. You're right that we don't know what's going on in the back end, but the fact remains that everyone else seems to have it figured out.

It's not just glamour they do this with, it's everything. How many features have we asked for that SE said they wouldn't implement because of the servers? And then how many features did they say we wouldn't get because of the servers did they suddenly implement once the pressure got to be too much?

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Originally Posted by Elamys

FFXIV is a hugely successful MMO, probably the only real competitor WoW has in terms of numbers despite the big gap still between them. There's no reason Square can't do this one simple thing we are asking because other games, smaller games, crappier games, do it easily, and it's time we hold SE accountable for all their "but the serveeeeeerrrrrr" excuses. You're right that we don't know what's going on in the back end, but the fact remains that everyone else seems to have it figured out.

It's not just glamour they do this with, it's everything. How many features have we asked for that SE said they wouldn't implement because of the servers? And then how many features did they say we wouldn't get because of the servers did they suddenly implement once the pressure got to be too much?

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Blaming things they don't want to do on server capacity is just an easy excuse. While it might have worked in the beginning it gets weaker as hardware improves and time goes by that SE could have used to resolve the issue.

Just because he said that doesn't mean it won't happen. He was asked if they could make aquariums for housing a while back and he acted like that would be impossible, and then they came later anyway.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

This is the exact situation I outlined and provided numbers for. Using one bit for each glamourable item that exists today, holding no information whatsoever other than 'acquired?', it will require 1.28 kB per character. Note that keeping a log of just what you've collected would take even more, as it would take two bytes per item, and would exceed this after obtaining 641 items, which is only 5% of the items currently in game.

The point is this:

an outlook whose accuracy has zero dependence on how anyone feels about the quality or validity of any of the reasons given.

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The data usage is irrelevant, that's what caching it on the client is for. Which they are already making use of elsewhere.

I'll just lift this from the other thread.

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Originally Posted by Kisama

SE is a small indie company, adjust your expectations accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

The data usage is irrelevant, that's what caching it on the client is for. Which they are already making use of elsewhere.

I'll just lift this from the other thread.

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I would hesitate to call a company with $2.3B in annual revenue a small indie company.

I think they just say that to keep expectations down.
This games backbone is kind of built on top of a trash heap after all so i imagine things that would be easy if ARR was built as a new game are more complex than you would naturally think due to all the 1.0 and console stuff tangling things up in the background

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Originally Posted by Elamys

FFXIV is a hugely successful MMO, probably the only real competitor WoW has in terms of numbers despite the big gap still between them.

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Elder Scrolls Online would likely beg to differ since its numbers suggest it's more populated than XIV, but I digress.

Some of it is servers, other parts are SE being lacking in knowledge just on how to do such things would be my guess. Couple that with the fact they just don't wanna spend the money. Comparing east and west mmos is generally not a good idea since they are vastly different things and even game design is different. It's no secret Eastern gaming companies, especially the large ones, are behind the times tech wise. So while it likely could be done there just may not be the know how coupled with tight purse strings.