For the Love of the Twelve Can We Get Smaller Patches At Faster Intervals?

Greetings!

In the future would it remotely possible to release smaller patches at an increased frequency (Maybe every 2-3 weeks) rather than release one behemoth of a patch every 3-4 months?

Having smaller patches come out every 2-4 weeks would give people a reason to log into the game more frequently to check out new content. When a mammoth sized patch gets released people log in for 1-2 weeks after watching the videos the elites posted on Youtube 1-2 days post-patch and walk through the scorched path already made. Then they log off for 2-3 months til the next patch, or in some cases (such as some of my LS mates) cancel their subscription until next patch (Or patch 1.xx that's on the development road-map).

Yoshida himself has stated that different aspects of the game (Story, Quests, Monsters, etc.) all get worked on independently of one another. So why can't they release patches at a more frequent rate if this is true? It all has to go through QA anyway...

It would also eliminate the need for time sink threesomes of horrid drop rates, Kupo Nut Charms/Inferno Totems, & a broken loot system to stretch out the life of content til next patch.... (I'm looking at you SE!)

It's better to eat a small portion of a cake rather than the entire thing because not only will it last longer, but you won't get sick of eating it. Why can't the same thing be said of patches for this game?

Thoughts?

I don't see why (or why not).
It honestly doesn't matter.
I would rather get larger chunks of the puzzle than tons of little chunks.

The game is in a rebuilding phase so having more released at once allows those smaller chunks to work together properly rather than a cluster f*ck of small confusing patches.

In the end I think it will just boil down to what you would prefer...Not what's best for the game (they aren't going to change pace.)

edited cause I misread, its late here.


Content won't come out fast for pre 2.0, maybe 2.0 we can get caster patches, OUR ENGINE IS CRAP! end of story. 2.0 new engine built for mmo

I'd rather have them stop releasing redundant data for us to download. Last 3 patches were all the same size, differing in a few kb. I honestly doubt it's a coincidence.

Well I think SE said they would be releasing patches more frequently when payment starts. You got your goobbue what else you want???
/sarcasm off

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

I'd rather have them stop releasing redundant data for us to download. Last 3 patches were all the same size, differing in a few kb. I honestly doubt it's a coincidence.

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no its not a coincidence, if the patcher replaces whole files then it would obviously explain why they are like that

Patches need to be tested.
Each test pass takes time and is expensive.
To do it more frequently would mean more time spent testing the patches (which means more money/resources spent testing patches, rather than developing content).

Therefore, less frequent releases is better as it allows for higher levels of testing and quality (given the probable restriction on budget for testing).

It would be quite refreshing if different monsters were cycled in every few weeks via minor patches (perhaps adjusting in game months/moon phases to account for lore etc), so for a few weeks in January we would see an Amaljaa uprise, then after that there is an Ixali uprise depending on x conditions. Basically, creating surges and dips in bestiary family presence every few weeks. It would make the world less static and perhaps have an impact on the economy where there is a surge and dip in related drops.

They tried the more frequent & lesser volume releases thing. Didn't work so well with QA.

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Originally Posted by WOmega

no its not a coincidence, if the patcher replaces whole files then it would obviously explain why they are like that

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That is not what I am talking about. What I'm talking about is the 15MB of completely identical data between patches. For example, here is the 1.20 vs 1.20a comparison:

http://i39.tinypic.com/mm9bhc.png

There is a 15MB identical block (not ok), followed by data differing in a few bytes (patching in new files - ok), followed by 15MB of completely new data (ok).

So the patch could have been 15MB smaller! While it's not a big issue with a 40MB patch, it would be with a 200+ mb patch. It looks like they just threw a modificated 1.20 package in a torrent instead of only distributing the modified versions.

They give us lettered patches in between the big ones. You may not like them, but they are there.

Better idea. Give us content that is lasting, so we don't have to bitch about the long time delays between one patch and another. Lasting content doesn't mean absurdly ridiculous time sinks such as the old Moogle keystone acquisition.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

That is not what I am talking about. What I'm talking about is the 15MB of completely identical data between patches. For example, here is the 1.20 vs 1.20a comparison:

http://i39.tinypic.com/mm9bhc.png

There is a 15MB identical block (not ok), followed by data differing in a few bytes (patching in new files - ok), followed by 15MB of completely new data (ok).

So the patch could have been 15MB smaller! While it's not a big issue with a 40MB patch, it would be with a 200+ mb patch. It looks like they just threw a modificated 1.20 package in a torrent instead of only distributing the modified versions.

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Its so with a new install there are less patches to go through... so many of them include previous patches

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Originally Posted by MizoreShirayuki

Greetings!

In the future would it remotely possible to release smaller patches at an increased frequency (Maybe every 2-3 weeks) rather than release one behemoth of a patch every 3-4 months?

Having smaller patches come out every 2-4 weeks would give people a reason to log into the game more frequently to check out new content. When a mammoth sized patch gets released people log in for 1-2 weeks after watching the videos the elites posted on Youtube 1-2 days post-patch and walk through the scorched path already made. Then they log off for 2-3 months til the next patch, or in some cases (such as some of my LS mates) cancel their subscription until next patch (Or patch 1.xx that's on the development road-map).

Yoshida himself has stated that different aspects of the game (Story, Quests, Monsters, etc.) all get worked on independently of one another. So why can't they release patches at a more frequent rate if this is true? It all has to go through QA anyway...

It would also eliminate the need for time sink threesomes of horrid drop rates, Kupo Nut Charms/Inferno Totems, & a broken loot system to stretch out the life of content til next patch.... (I'm looking at you SE!)

It's better to eat a small portion of a cake rather than the entire thing because not only will it last longer, but you won't get sick of eating it. Why can't the same thing be said of patches for this game?

Thoughts?

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Thats not the best solution.... If you think about the most important thing being content (And the only thing that could really get people to log on) then there is technically only 1 big content item per patch... so releasing smaller patches in closer intervals would just mean that there are a bunch of patches you could ignore and still only log in once every couple months when the big Primal Battle or dungeon drops

Also I am the COMPLETE opposite of you... I think every change from 1.18 to 1.22 should have all come at the same time.... Even if that meant holding it off for months
Recipes/HQ in 1.19/1.20/1.21 could have all just come in 1.21
When they give people an unfinished system... people complain and SE ends up spending more time fixing the little shit... and instead of working to release the rest of whatever system so that people can judge it as a whole
As it stands right now... I can't really have an opinion on Mounts, Battle system, Items, Synthesis recipes or personal combos... because it isn't finished....
But that desn't stop a lot of people from complaining that this and that needs to be reworked, blah blah blah

So no.. I don't want smaller more frequent patches.....

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

That is not what I am talking about. What I'm talking about is the 15MB of completely identical data between patches. For example, here is the 1.20 vs 1.20a comparison.

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This is so the only patch they need to ever host is the current one, no multiple patching if you dissapear for a year. I remember trying to update XI after a fresh install...lol.

SE actually updates FFXI/FFXIV at a decent pace compared to a lot of MMOs. They're updating as fast as they can for an MMO being overhauled.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

That is not what I am talking about. What I'm talking about is the 15MB of completely identical data between patches. For example, here is the 1.20 vs 1.20a comparison:

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This isn't new, and I don't see the problem with it. They do it so people don't have to download a bajillion patches when they return or start for the first time, they just need to download 1 for every major patch.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

That is not what I am talking about. What I'm talking about is the 15MB of completely identical data between patches. For example, here is the 1.20 vs 1.20a comparison:

http://i39.tinypic.com/mm9bhc.png

There is a 15MB identical block (not ok), followed by data differing in a few bytes (patching in new files - ok), followed by 15MB of completely new data (ok).

So the patch could have been 15MB smaller! While it's not a big issue with a 40MB patch, it would be with a 200+ mb patch. It looks like they just threw a modificated 1.20 package in a torrent instead of only distributing the modified versions.

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Ah if only you knew that almost every company that runs an MMO or online game repackage data for an obvious reason. It's "redundant" for concurrent players but it's not for new players.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Ah if only you knew that almost every company that runs an MMO or online game repackage data for an obvious reason. It's "redundant" for concurrent players but it's not for new players.

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Agreed
And honestly... not enough extra time is spent downloading the redundant data to warrant mentioning
Its a couple more minutes a month...

The update method is actually very bad compared to some other MMOs. Using bittorrent is just a way to save money but it's inconvenient for the users and comes with lots of overhead. Hopefully they work on that in 2.0. A good system would adapt to each customer and send him only the data he needs which can then be applied in one go. There are even games that only require a client executable and download the rest at runtime.

Actually, most MMO companies use P2P because it can get really congested for a new player to download YEARS worth of data. (Especially on Korean and Chinese games where you need to connect to a Korean and Chinese server even if you're playing a localized version.)

P2P is the better solution for it handling updates, especially large updates.

Current patch rate is fine, it's the ppl complaining about "lack of updates" and "wasted resources" that suck.

In MMORPG land, XIV is putting out patches nearly as fast as Rift, a game that's being praised for its consistency with updates.

I think SE is doing fine, considering they have 2.0 to deal with too.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Its so with a new install there are less patches to go through... so many of them include previous patches

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Originally Posted by Jynx

This is so the only patch they need to ever host is the current one, no multiple patching if you dissapear for a year. I remember trying to update XI after a fresh install...lol.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

This isn't new, and I don't see the problem with it. They do it so people don't have to download a bajillion patches when they return or start for the first time, they just need to download 1 for every major patch.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Ah if only you knew that almost every company that runs an MMO or online game repackage data for an obvious reason. It's "redundant" for concurrent players but it's not for new players.

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You all should look up the term "incremental updates". Might open your eyes.

As much as you want to believe SE is the bad guy here, they're not. It's pretty standard practice and the only reason you never realize it is because other MMOs repackage the data in larger updates therefore you wouldn't care to comb an update with a fine toothed comb.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

You all should look up the term "incremental updates". Might open your eyes.

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You should look up "If spending an extra 10 minutes a month bothers you, although your time isn't worth squat, then you should learn not to let insignificant things bother you so much"

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

You all should look up the term "incremental updates". Might open your eyes.

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I did look it up. I didn't actually find anything. If you're going to suggest someone should look something up, make sure it'll actually turn up relevant results. Wikipedia certainly doesn't have anything on the issue that I could find. What I could find on random other sites basically said the difference between incremental and the way SE does it is to assist those will lesser connections.

If you're playing an MMO, you are assumed to have a fast connection with no data cap. I don't see the issue here.

Exactly, just like all those people who subscribe to XBL or want DLC should know that you're investing in a venture. Unless you live in like Antarctica or somewhere deep in the mountains or an ISP that's greedy, datacaps really shouldn't be an issue, or if it will continue to be an issue..playing MMOs may not be a wise decision.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

I'd rather have them stop releasing redundant data for us to download. Last 3 patches were all the same size, differing in a few kb. I honestly doubt it's a coincidence.

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Oy vey.

/10chars

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Originally Posted by Rydin

You should look up "If spending an extra 10 minutes a month bothers you, although your time isn't worth squat, then you should learn not to let insignificant things bother you so much"

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Yes, why improve anything, we can just all go back to dial-up and enjoy our 24 hour patching sessions. Bugs should not be fixed because they are all working as intended, and we don't need any new content because there is already enough to do in game.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

I did look it up. I didn't actually find anything. If you're going to suggest someone should look something up, make sure it'll actually turn up relevant results. Wikipedia certainly doesn't have anything on the issue that I could find. What I could find on random other sites basically said the difference between incremental and the way SE does it is to assist those will lesser connections.

If you're playing an MMO, you are assumed to have a fast connection with no data cap. I don't see the issue here.

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I guess they didn't define an article on updates, one on backups does the job, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incremental_backup

Bandwidth is not an issue, the horribly broken patch system is. The less time you spend in it, the better.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Yes, why improve anything, we can just all go back to dial-up and enjoy our 24 hour patching sessions. Bugs should not be fixed because they are all working as intended, and we don't need any new content because there is already enough to do in game.

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Stop reaching.

There's nothing "to improve", they repackage data because it's helpful in the long run in terms of convenience. Have you ever fresh installed this game? No? Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Stop reaching.

There's nothing "to improve", they repackage data because it's helpful in the long run in terms of convenience. Have you ever fresh installed this game? No? Exactly.

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Are you actually reading my posts or just trying to troll?
They are wasting their own bandwidth, using incremental backups would reduce the amount of data everyone has to download no matter if it's a new or current player. But yeah, whiteknight away.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Bandwidth is not an issue, the horribly broken patch system is. The less time you spend in it, the better.

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Horribly broken? I'd rather spend the few minutes in total from patching to keep it one nice and tidy update for newer players. I was suprised at how easy it patched compared to XI when reinstalling the other day.

ITT: 15 MB of extra data is "horribly broken".

I give up, ignorance is a bliss.

They're running a fucking MMO. Any bandwidth "wasted" is an infinitesimal amount in comparison to their total usage. There's nothing broken about the system, most MMO's in the industry use it. MMO's live and die by how well they can bring in new players as veterans fall off, and making the experience for them as quick and easy as possible is important.

Tried reinstalling FFXI lately?

I like big pieces over long periods of time.
It's easier to manage.

Once a patch comes out, I spend like 2-3 weeks hardcore doing all the new content, and then easen up until the new patch comes.