Ridoraba 3rd Boss got nerfed ?

Did SE ninja'ed nerf the turning laser (sorry, can't remember the name) of Construct 7? It seems the speed even when it was overheat is slow now. Definitely slower than usual, it's not hectic anymore...



edit: Eh, Ridorana. Sorry, misspelled.

You mean Demolish? It's probably just your perception that's changed, and that people have gotten better at it.

Ah yes, Demolish, thanks for the term.

I'm pretty sure now he did have a longer pause between laser compared to before though... but you may be right.

I hope they didn't nerf it. I love that move. Tho I think people have gotten better at is so it looks weaker.

The more times he does the move, the faster it gets. If your DPS improved, you probably didn't see the final set this time.

People definitely got better at it. We had to learn the dance.

When would they have nerfed it? The first game widd maintenance (vs the area specific ones we've seen) since patch hasn't happened yet.

I think the move where he spins with the lasers is actually called Disposal.

They couldn't have nerfed it. There has been no patch update, which something like that necessitates. You just got used to the movement so it appears slower now. :)

Er yes Dispose that's it.

Seeing as I just finished a 15 minute fight with him, no. I can safely say that he hasn't been stealth nerfed, even if SE had had the opportunity to do it.

I actually wish they would "buff" him by giving him an enrage or having a better way to punish partial wipes so we don't have this 15 minute war of attrition bullshit.

It didn't need a nerf.

People are just figuring out that it was them...not the boss causing the problem.

From time to time he actually has delay on last lasers, so that's probably why you think it's slower now.

I didn't notice a change either...maybe I should do a run through today to check, but yeah, I don't believe anything in Rido was nerfed at all.

Certainly hope not. That boss is great! Sadly, it shows the state of the education system here in the US though xD

https://i.imgflip.com/2b4drp.jpg

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Originally Posted by Neri

Did SE ninja'ed nerf the turning laser (sorry, can't remember the name) of Construct 7? It seems the speed even when it was overheat is slow now. Definitely slower than usual, it's not hectic anymore...



edit: Eh, Ridorana. Sorry, misspelled.

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Technically, they can't change anything with animation speed without pushing an update to the game client. However they could ninja-edit the timing between movements without pushing a patch, as the game server basically tells the game client who got hit and then tells it to animate. Unless people want to compare recordings, it's likely that players just knew to anticipate it instead.

They either nerfed it or you got better.
I think you got better.

Spoke too soon

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In order to address an issue where sound effects are delayed, we will be performing emergency maintenance on all Worlds at the time below, during which FINAL FANTASY XIV will be unavailable.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and we thank you for your understanding.

[Date & Time]
May 27, 2018 11:00 p.m. to May 28, 2018 3:00 a.m. (PDT)
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So here comes the client update.

The first rotation is slower and only one full rotation, after that all are turbo speed and two full sweeps

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

Certainly hope not. That boss is great! Sadly, it shows the state of the education system here in the US though xD

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Do we usually kill people if they can't do multiple choice math questions while doing other things in ten seconds to compare?

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Do we usually kill people if they can't do multiple choice math questions while doing other things in ten seconds to compare?

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We should. That might motivate people to learn what a prime number is.

Jokes aside, what exactly is there to do that would qualify as "other things" and would therefore prevent people from answering exceedingly simplistic grade school math questions within the allotted time (learning disabilities notwithstanding--90% of the raid don't all have dyscalculia)? The boss literally stands there doing nothing for the entirety of the phase so the only thing you have to worry about is what he's asking you do to.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

We should. That might motivate people to learn what a prime number is.

Jokes aside, what exactly is there to do that would qualify as "other things" and would therefore prevent people from answering exceedingly simplistic grade school math questions within the allotted time (learning disabilities notwithstanding--90% of the raid don't all have dyscalculia)? The boss literally stands there doing nothing for the entirety of the phase so the only thing you have to worry about is what he's asking you do to.

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I dunno, I'm a healer, when I need down time I can have it easily. I don't need to keep track of buff timers like DPS do and I don't know if the window is enough of an issue to cause issues.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

We should. That might motivate people to learn what a prime number is.

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The issue is how it's taught, most math is just taught as "learn this because you have to" they rarely teach you the real world implication of mathematical ideas. If one were to understand why certain concepts are important people may retain the information better but when your school system teaches you that the multiplications are 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20, 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30, 4 8 12 16 20 24 28 32 36 40, 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50, 8 16 24 32 40 48 56 64 72 80, etc etc, it just leaves most peoples minds because they don't understand why it's important to learn.

Utility of learned information should be part of an education system curriculum but many just regurgitate information to you without explaining why it's important.

I am not going to lie... First time I ran it, I forgot my prime numbers too because it has been decades since I dealt with anything specifically with prime numbers. I just happened to get lucky with them, but prime numbers aren't really what I would call general things one would use in everyday life. Certain fields of work, yes, they would use them a lot.

I have dyscalculia. It's not the inability to do math, really, it's a disconnect between math logic and the visual cortex. If I see a more than four numbers on the page at a time, I'm screwed. This is why all the spreadsheet attempts people have made, while well meaning, are completely useless.

I've been able to do this boss by saying the question out loud instead, bypassing the visual cortex which is still counting in potatoes and leveraging the audio parts of my brain instead.

I AM TWO
HE IS ASKING FOR A PRIME NUMBER
FIVE IS A PRIME
FIVE MINUS TWO IS THREE

^ Doing this visually is not instant for me. Doing this via an auditory hack is amazingly much faster because as soon as I say "five is a prime" the math circuits activate properly.

Looking back, I survived all my math classes by learning to recite whatever I was doing with my internal narrative monologue. Long division is still my personal hell. I did fine once I reached algebra.

OK just want say its Dyslexia and I have been dealing with it since 2nd grade.

Just wanted to State Dyslexia is spectral so each person can have similar issues like visual, auditory or even both and can be different depending on what is being learned. So for me I had to run that 24man all week until I was able to get handle of the visual what Construct 7 was asking. There so much text going on so bit like having my learning difference as sub-boss in game. Yeah I looked up prime number to have 1 less thing. During my 1st run some party member said hope you recall prime numbers. I actually had to study up on prime numbers cause its been decades since grade school.

So yeah I wouldn't want it nerfed or change to fit my learning style. Just never had game remind me so directly that I am dyslexic. Yeah and even year from now I will still mess up. I'm cool with that.
Its was stressful while knowing as healer I need to live to help top off.

What he needs us more math parts.
Giving players more stacks to the buff they get for being right and thus more dps.

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Originally Posted by Amaya-Asha

OK just want say its Dyslexia and I have been dealing with it since 2nd grade.

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https://www.understood.org/en/learni...ng-dyscalculia

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Originally Posted by Airget

The issue is how it's taught, most math is just taught as "learn this because you have to" they rarely teach you the real world implication of mathematical ideas. If one were to understand why certain concepts are important people may retain the information better but when your school system teaches you that the multiplications are 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20, 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30, 4 8 12 16 20 24 28 32 36 40, 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50, 8 16 24 32 40 48 56 64 72 80, etc etc, it just leaves most peoples minds because they don't understand why it's important to learn.

Utility of learned information should be part of an education system curriculum but many just regurgitate information to you without explaining why it's important.

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In fairness, most subjects require significant groundwork be laid prior to interesting applications being readily apparent.

Reciting the alphabet and learning how to spell and write basic sentences, for example, is critical to reading. Prior to having some of the basics down, you can't easily jump into a book. Once you do get the basics, you can begin reading, which then reinforces skills and builds new ones, which leads to more complex reading... and then a whole world opens up for you.

Mathematics is like this too, but unlike reading, there aren't a lot of useful applications for math right off the bat. It's more of an art form than anything else, and much like teaching art, it depends to some extent on inborn interest from the students. You can present neat tricks, you can demonstrate math 'magic', you can leverage puzzles as learning aids, but if there's no interest in learning for the sake of learning - if the student doesn't value the abstract - math tends to be a struggle. The concrete examples are either too contrived, or too advanced. At least, that's been my experience.

Eh, think of it this way. Remember Diabolos's first appearance in a dungeon? You had to pay attention to which two doors had symbols on them and go through them to avoid wiping. It's just two symbols, right? But I'm willing to bet enough people struggle with that to where once ilvl got decent enough, taking the hit and brute forcing it was an option. for a few people, math is like that in this. I mean, they can do it in their real lives just like you could play a memory game and find two alike symbols. But in the middle of a battle, it is a lot rougher if you aren't good at memory antics and multitasking.

And look, math in general is rough precisely because most people's lives don't deal with symbolism and abstraction to high levels. People learn calculation by rote teaching and drilling, but go to a community college basic algebra class, and you find a lot of adults struggle with that. You don't go out and calculate how tall of a ladder you need by geometry when you need to get to the roof, like the word problems say. If you are in STEM careers, that abstraction is very valuable because so much of that work is logical and symbolic, but I don't think most people would pass a basic algebra test if it were administered.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Eh, think of it this way. Remember Diabolos's first appearance in a dungeon? You had to pay attention to which two doors had symbols on them and go through them to avoid wiping. It's just two symbols, right? But I'm willing to bet enough people struggle with that to where once ilvl got decent enough, taking the hit and brute forcing it was an option. for a few people, math is like that in this. I mean, they can do it in their real lives just like you could play a memory game and find two alike symbols. But in the middle of a battle, it is a lot rougher if you aren't good at memory antics and multitasking.

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Back when it was current, when I was running it at least, the healer took a moment to mark the doors for matching pairs when the fight started so you wouldn't have to remember them all throughout the fight. Unfortunately not an option in Ridorana.

It's kind of on subject but the name of the prime number move in English bugs the hell out of me. In mathematics, you say that a number is indivisible by a specific other number when it cannot be divided by that number without a remainder. It's not common to refer to prime numbers this way, since all numbers are divisible by 1 and themselves. It's just with prime numbers, these are the only things they are divisible by. I'm curious what it gets translated to in other languages or what it is in Japanese.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I am not going to lie... First time I ran it, I forgot my prime numbers too because it has been decades since I dealt with anything specifically with prime numbers. I just happened to get lucky with them, but prime numbers aren't really what I would call general things one would use in everyday life. Certain fields of work, yes, they would use them a lot.

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Which is why they wrote down all relevant primes (up to 13) and most of the 2 and 3 multiplications on the notes on the robots before the boss. They're not that mean, but most people don't stop to read it, and if they do, they might not memorize it fast enough before the boss is pulled.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

And look, math in general is rough precisely because most people's lives don't deal with symbolism and abstraction to high levels. People learn calculation by rote teaching and drilling, but go to a community college basic algebra class, and you find a lot of adults struggle with that. You don't go out and calculate how tall of a ladder you need by geometry when you need to get to the roof, like the word problems say. If you are in STEM careers, that abstraction is very valuable because so much of that work is logical and symbolic, but I don't think most people would pass a basic algebra test if it were administered.

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I taught pre-calc and calculus courses as a graduate teaching assistant for four years at a flagship state university. Given that half the students I encountered there couldn't pass a basic algebra test - despite being relatively fresh from high school, and accepted to a university no less - I can assure you, the above statement is entirely accurate.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

First time I ran it, I forgot my prime numbers too because it has been decades since I dealt with anything specifically with prime numbers.

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Everyone deals with prime numbers daily. It's just that people don't really name them. It's like you can push a fish on the frying pan naturally to even out the frying, without even knowing that it is a specific cooking technique that is named and is technically acknowledged as "french" technique.

That being said, the numbers that are present in this raid are something people will deal with on a daily basis. I wonder how these people manage not to be swindled away when doing shopping or getting their salaries if they can't do fundamental math like that.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It's kind of on subject but the name of the prime number move in English bugs the hell out of me. In mathematics, you say that a number is indivisible by a specific other number when it cannot be divided by that number without a remainder. It's not common to refer to prime numbers this way, since all numbers are divisible by 1 and themselves. It's just with prime numbers, these are the only things they are divisible by. I'm curious what it gets translated to in other languages or what it is in Japanese.

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This would matter more as an argument if the boss didn't literally tell you to set yourself to a Prime. It personally took me multiple runs to realize his cast was even called "Indivisible" because I always read his actual verbal command which specifically states "Prime".

I mean, you're not wrong. Indivisible is probably a poor choice of word by the localization team. But as the boss tells you what to do anyway, the name of the ability itself is largely irrelevant when it comes to understanding the mechanic.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

That being said, the numbers that are present in this raid are something people will deal with on a daily basis. I wonder how these people manage not to be swindled away when doing shopping or getting their salaries if they can't do fundamental math like that.

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Well, if you pay by card, you're not going to get ripped off unless the merchant with the POS (Point of Sale) mis-keys it. That's why chip+pin, tap-to-pay and apple-pay show you the amount you're being charged and you should never hand your card to someone. If you must use the swipe, you swipe yourself.

Getting paid or doing shopping doesn't require you to use math. Come to think of it, all the math I really use outside of programming/spreadsheet/graph abuse (literately I generate graphs out of numbers that people can't understand) is when adding gratuities to the restaurant bill, or buying items in quantities at the store, and double-checking that whatever discount applied is on the actual receipt at the self-checkout. One time in the last 3 years was something wrong. Prior to that, I had been overcharged by 100$ by a restaurant about 10 years prior, because the merchant mis-keyed 10.00 as 110.00 and I saw it briefly when I used the card, but it didn't register in my mind what was wrong until I checked the receipt when I got home. That was a three month ordeal that I wound up with 100$ in gift certificates for.

Suffice it to say, even when we use math, sometimes we are so used to things just working that when they go wrong it's just not going to register. With the advent of Apple Pay, you actually see the amount you are being charged on your device, even if you use those cards without using apple pay. So now you have a "you paid X.XX to BUSINESS NAME" message sitting on the phone/ipad when you get home if you forgot to take it with you.

1) People that play this game are old enough to remember time when hard cash was used quite frequently.
2) Apple Pay and all those fancy methods are not used by everyone and not available in every country, while there are numerous countries from which players are logged onto the NA servers.
3) There are still places where none of that matters. The business will simply not accept anything short of cash. That's something you are very likely to be forced into whenever you leave your country for another that uses different currency.


On a different note, math is used far more than when counting numbers. Great deal of math is as natural to humanity as biology. Whenever you cut off a slice of pie, pour soup into the plate for more than yourself, recharge your phone. Those are all instances where math is used naturally.

If you have two oranges and are going to visit someone with three children, do you need to use "math" to know that two oranges are too few to give each of them one?! No. You do that instinctively, but that's nothing more than 2-3=-1. People can count that kind of math. Just about everyone can. Learning disorders inhibit the written, number, form. But I have real doubt to believe that someone that cannot read a number at all could actually reach lvl70 in an RPG game. Brain "calculates" a lot of things. If it was unable to do that, the person would be in a vegetative state. Therefore there is no one active unable to count basic numbers.


Excuses because someone doesn't feel like paying attention are just that. Excuses. At least be honest (I don't mean specifically you, but those that complain about the math there or keep failing it) and say that you don't feel like doing anything beyond mashing buttons.


And if people nowadays really can't, for whatever reason, count, subtract, add, divide and multiply to 10...then I simply have no words. None that would not be extremely offensive, anyway.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

3) There are still places where none of that matters. The business will simply not accept anything short of cash. That's something you are very likely to be forced into whenever you leave your country for another that uses different currency.
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My mom who worked at a tourist place, has mentioned many times how foreigners will just hand the cashiers large bills (primary foreigners, though US tourists do this to despite speaking English) and will even walk away without getting their change because they don't know which bills are what value. I found that strange, but coins just confuse tourists.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I found that strange, but coins just confuse tourists.

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From my point of view...it's not that coins confuse tourists. It's that some countries have coins that seem to have been designed to promote "hide and seek" game, with the user being the one that seeks the coins value...Like, literally. I had in my hand coins that had their date of being minted in larger numbers than their value. And their value wasn't characteristic nor in any way underlined to make it a focal point at all. It's like they were a nice, little picture on a piece of metal...oh, and serving in trade as a side note.

You need to understand that size of coins and their shape is absolutely irrelevant. There is only one kind of entity that cares about it universally, and that's a coin machine of any sort. For blind people it may be relevant only in their country of origin. Due to how different denominations may have varied sizes depending on the country (for example comparing 1 euro and 1 dollar).

Then there's also the fact that USA have entirely different system. There is cent, dime, nickel. I can know what half dollar and quarter dollar is...but dime and nickel?! Huh?! I'd need to look it up.

In Europe and, well, just about any country that normally uses metric system as well I recon, it's 1X (like 1 euro cent), 10X (like 10euro cents), 20X, 50X and so on. There is always a number and name of the value. 100 of the lower denomination (like cents) is a higher denomination (like a dollar/euro). And that's all. Then it's just pure math, you don't need to know absolutely anything about anything of that country. Just numbers. In USA I'd need to know what is nickel and what is dime as well.

And please, go ahead. Show me a mathematical value of this coin (on it, not on outside source).

It's like with time (AM/PM?!, 12AM is midday or midnight?! Not even English language professors know the difference, and it further varies between countries.), weight...well, the entire number systems. Just compare this to this. Knowing two tables in metric system, you can count to any number of any field. In imperial knowing two tables you don't even know half of it. There were catastrophes caused by these differences (tankers falling apart, satellites crashing down into ocean etc.). And you expect a random foreigner to understand the differences when he could go to a dozen other countries and not even know there is any other way of doing it?!
Do you even know what "milliard" is? No? If you expect people to know what a dime or nickel is, then you should know what miliard is. That's 1 000 000 000, in USA called billion. In Europe it's million, milliard, billion, billiard etc, while in USA it's million, billion, trillion, quadrillion etc.


These differences, however, have nothing to do with math itself. It's linguistics. The meaning of words is language. And unfortunately...mathematical language skills are not taught at foreign language classes, hence why so many people cannot understand the billion=milliard issue or the lower denominations of your coins.