relic weapons whats with crappy ilvl and wait

why are the relic weapons the last thing you get, expansion done and the most powerful weapon completed after you poured so much time to get it and its useless. SE needs to keep these things current, the raiders put in work, relic put you to work too, so these need to be on par with raid weapons. a weapon for people who don't want to raid and the weapon for people who do raid. i just want equal terms, and to eliminate the wait on these weapons, they come out to slowly.

Because they don't want to hand you a godly weapon straight away making savage content null void

If you don't raid i355 weapon is completely fine you can do all normal content in this game at average ilevel of 335

And making relic is(was) alot more passive than doing savage content and requires alot less effort
Most the steps in the past were just getting items and doing a regular dungeon

Also gotta give geralt some time off

You don't need I375 if you're not raiding.

i dont agree with you at all. Raid weapon should be always the higher ilvl till the end of that raid cycle. Thats one of the reason to raid. If you are not raiding you dont need the highest ilvl weapon u can do fine with the lower ones.

What are you gonna do with a powerful non raid weapon anyway? Use it to raid?

wait until the last main patch of the 4.x serie. Relic weapon is the best if the next expansion pack is only some months away.

You sound just like a pessimistic member from my FC who has yet to even start ANY relic quest. If this is your thought process, then don't put effort into obtaining a relic or raid drop.

Look. The glamour system allows your relic to stay relevant. It really just depends on your PoV. If you put in the effort to obtain a relic/raid weapon, and SE releases a better weapon that can be crafted the next day, then glam over it. It is really that simple. Why on earth do you think peeps still go after the ARR relic weapons, despite the fact that they are completely inferior to the weapons you can just buy in Ishgard?

This gripe is one of the most ridiculous that constantly rings my ears. If you despise the horizontal progression that drives this game, then play another one that suits your tastes.

the relic should at least be ilvl 360 with the 5 materia slots, so it's better than the story raid / tome weapon. it don't has to be better or on par with the i375 weapon from savage raid, but it would be nice if the relic was better than the casual-tome weapon.

we had this in 2.x and i liked it. you could not get the tome weapon without the raid (story mode didn't exist back then), until the 24 man raid was released. the relic was always ahead of the causal tome weapons, but below the raid weapons (until shortly before they increased the general ilvl). the relic was worth the grind in 2.x!

It's not a relic weapon, though. Yet.
Still just a blue weapon with 5 slots. And .... well, glows a bit.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

It's not a relic weapon, though. Yet.
Still just a blue weapon with 5 slots. And .... well, glows a bit.

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that's the next point... why do we have to wait SO LONG for the relic? we are in 4.3 now, half the expansion is over!

what would people say if the raid was delayed for one year? the relic grind was always one of my favorite content :x

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Originally Posted by Tint

that's the next point... why do we have to wait SO LONG for the relic? we are in 4.3 now, half the expansion is over!

what would people say if the raid was delayed for one year? the relic grind was always one of my favorite content :x

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I am pretty much sure there will be at least another two eureka zones we need to tackle related to the relic (alone the fact that Gerolt has been 'convinced' to join the expedition there).
And from there we will do raids, need to craft the most expensive things, and probably do the dungeons another thousand times.

Just wait, it'll come soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

i dont agree with you at all. Raid weapon should be always the higher ilvl till the end of that raid cycle. Thats one of the reason to raid. If you are not raiding you dont need the highest ilvl weapon u can do fine with the lower ones.

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ermmm if you only raid for weapon you have a huge trouble....
i means the raid give you access to a whole set of special armor (generally dyeable version of the normal version, even if the last alexander was a different version)
plus relic is rarely handed like this, some step of the ARR relic and even HW was quite deadly and freaking long...

another point, i fail to understand why more choice in the top gear is a trouble... i means, raider do raid, because they like this.... i guess.... or are they masochist? i means doing something you hate only for a weapon is.... yeah masochism.
Raid gear is the top gear for the 3 first month of a tier, it give you a freaking advantage on everyone else. sadly, this gear is pointless, i means if you beat the raid, without it, means you don't need it technically. yes it make the whole raid farming easier, but do it's needed for complet it? no.... it's a big bragging rights nothing more. an advantage for the next tier, not the actual tier...

what is funny somehow, if we had other content as hard than raid that was asking you to have this gears usefull.... ohhh wait they added this, it's called ultimate and guess what... you get another weapon from there.
in previous tier, you had this:

delta raid hard mode pld weapon
ultimate bahamut mode pld weapon

means raider don't get the best weapon, but 2 best weapon, i fail to understand how make the relic on par with the hard mode of raid is soo much a trouble, since you get a whole armor and accessory set with this raid too... isn't already enough? plus if you really want to have the best weapon around, go do the ultimate, the fact that the ultimate that only give a weapon, is the best weapon bother me less than the hard mode raid weapon, that have soo many reward already in.

i will resay what i have said countless time, more choice is not bad... right now, the best weapon is tie to 2 weapon and the best armor for the 3 first month of a tier is 1 armor set... and even at the end of a tier only 2 armor set.... we lack choice in equipement, how many time did wet get armor set from raid and tomes that was mediocre, i will not talk about the trouble i do face with ninja with sigmalice, i did get my whole set of sigmalice and use 3 crafted gear (the i350 set) and reach crazy amount of skillspeed.... (over 1700 Skill Speed)

they need to add another mode that are not raiding, that is as hard than raid hard mode and maybe even ultimate that will give reward that can be serve as more gear for give choice to the player base...

another thing bother me, a lot, recently it was said that Deep dungeon 2.0 30+ floor will be really challenging for a team of 4 player and as reward we will get a weapon that will be a junk... well maybe it will be less difficult than hard mode, we will not know before test it.... but why if they add a 4 man challenging content i'm sure that the reward will not be to the same level than raid.... because right, people like to say that raid is the real endgame.... when mmorpg end game is what you decide it is... it can be raiding, it can be crafting, it can be glamour, it can be pvp.... and even if i say this, for SE the only true endgame is raiding, what is not done by a lot of player.... how many people did beat the ultimate... 4-5% of the community?

how many did beat alexander hard mode? remember it was less of 3% but still it's considered like the endgame, when even pvp gather more people... incredible.

and we are still hostage of the raid for any sort of gear progression. everything we will get from primal, from relic, from deep dungeon will still below raiding. ohhh by the way, even with the raid 24 token for upgrade an armor, it will take 11 weeks for upgrade the whole set of armor and weapon.... when we have a cycle of patch of.... 3 month, means between 12 to 13 week? before the new tier arrive and make it ridiculous, since from then, you can simply do it in less of 3 day for get the same gears... since a new high level reward is available....

*sarcasm on* but, it's true, raiding must be the only place that give the best gear, because they need it for do it.... *sarcasm off*

all i see is relic can be very often far harder and tiring mentally to get than raiding and don't even deserve to be a par with it... when it's only one weapon...

For me, raid weapons (and accessories) should not exist.

I agree that a raider should have an overall better gear than a non raider, but keeping the best armor pieces in the raid would be enough to ensure that, and would still give meaning to other content if they hold the best weapons (Additionnal content like Relic and Deep Dungeon) and accessories (Primals).

And capped tome gear should also disappear because it rewards neither skill nor time investment...

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

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First is one of the reason not the only reason. Second bahamut ultimate was so brutal that i believe u actually need the raid weapon so is not like you can skip it and get the best and also u have to beat the last raid of that cycle to even attempt it. Third the relic quest line is not hard just "long" so with just enough time anyone can do it. For raid weapon to get it you have to actually be good/skilled at your job to beat it. Why hand over the best weapon if you are not the "best"? Also i think you meant savage instead of hard.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

And capped tome gear should also disappear because it rewards neither skill nor time investment...

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tome gear is a nice safety net for people with bad RNG luck.

the problem is that the tome gear is simply too good and makes every other gear, except savage raid gear, basically useless.

Due to the low ilvl of the relic, I'm waiting until they nerf the requirements to attain it. Unless you really want to glamour it now, its much more time efficient to get a primal weapon.

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Originally Posted by Tint

tome gear is a nice safety net for people with bad RNG luck.

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Uncapped tome gear (i.e current i330-340), yes, it's a nice stepping stone to put you in raids. But you have Savage and Primal tokens as a "safety net" for really powerful gear.

Ilvl 355 is fine for any content that isn't hardcore raiding, I really don't see the need for the best current ilvl if your not raiding. And if you are raiding you'd have raiding gear by now.

the point is not get a full raid gear, but make relic that at the end can end to be extremely long to get (well not right now the SB one is kinda fast for now, but next step is coming), since for get the last relic of the series, you will need to do many thing and spend a loooot of time into it, then it's normal to ask that this weapon can be at the same level than raid, since, it's only one weapon.

raid still earn different skin, and more powerfull armor and accessory.... then one more weapon that can be chosen for do anything (raid included) is welcome, no?

As multiple people have pointed out, a weapon on par with the raid weapon is not required in anyway for any content outside of ultimate and the next raid tier.

I tend not to weigh in on this. But often the entire argument for why relics should be equal hinges on "effort versus reward", I'm sorry but having beaten the last 3 tiers of savage and also done the relevant relic weapons simultaneously, you are delusional if you think the two are anywhere near equal in the amount of effort or time invested.

Put in perspective for this tier alone, Rng is a factor, I was number 7/8 in my static to receive my weapon. That's 7 weeks of clears (plus the time we had to invest in learning the fight plus the clearing the previous 3 fights), Eureaka dropped I had 3 relic weapons and a full armour set in under a week....

People really can't talk about equal investment etc when they haven't even set foot in savage.

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Originally Posted by HiroKirito

I'm sorry but having beaten the last 3 tiers of savage and also done the relevant relic weapons simultaneously, you are delusional if you think the two are anywhere near equal in the amount of effort or time invested.

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But still, beating Savage also gives you the best armor, so raiding would always end up with a more powerful character than not. But by putting every reward into raid, you just ensure than your other content will be meaningless for the raiding community, and have reduced value for the rest of the playerbase...especially since we'd still have this cheap tome weapons...

Besides, if something like the relics would actually be the best weapon right away, it could give confidence to some people to try EX Primals (for best accessories) and Savage raiding (For best armor).

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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We didn't beat it with the best armor, or at max ilvl. Other content isn't meaningless to raiders. My static does all content, we aren't the best, we don't compete for worlds first but for example we held world 8th speed kill for shin ex when relevant.

The point is though we didn't walk into those fights and clear already geared a max ilvl. We put in a lot of time and effort. My static has been 2 years in the making, that's not kicking bad people, that's the same members continuously developing and improving every single patch.

It's a matter of perspective, the bulk of "non-raiders" veiw it as "raiders" are more skilled or that these fights are easier for them. It's easy not to think about the time and investment raiders put into these fights and handing out equal weapons to people who haven't attempted savage completely trivializes that effort.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

You don't need I375 if you're not raiding.

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You don't need it if you ARE raiding. By having it you already proved you don't need it by clearing the content without it.

i like how some people explain how things work, while you have others throw in their rhetoric to make them feel alpha on a video game. this is for the rude individuals you don't know me and i don't know y'all but I'll be damn if i have my name slander with characteristics unfitting. 2.0 relics four completed, 3.0 relics nine completed, 4.0 relics all 355 completed, i been playing ffxiv since 2013 don't let the join date confuse you. but I now see how some people like to be rude, I'm a retired USAF Security Forces member and i can play what i like.

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Originally Posted by kobe-sabi

you don't know me, 2.0 relics four completed, 3.0 relics nine completed, 4.0 relics all 355 completed, i been playing ffxiv since 2013 don't let the join date confuse you. i see now how people like you like to be rude, i'm a retired USAF Security Forces member and i can play what i like.

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So exactly as I said you've only done relics and not attempted savage? But you believe them to be equal in terms of effort?

It's hardly "rude" and none of what you have said justifies or supports the arguement as to why a relic weapon should be on par with a raid weapon at release.

Sure you can play what you like, but you're expecting a reward equal to content you don't want to play. The content is there if you want the reward, It's your choice wether you do the content or not.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Besides, if something like the relics would actually be the best weapon right away, it could give confidence to some people to try EX Primals (for best accessories) and Savage raiding (For best armor).

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Best armor for 3 months. If you don't raid secondaries mean very little. They give everyone access to raid level 370 ilvl gear on odd patches. What would be the point in putting accessories on odd patches for EX primals when you can already get them without doing the EX Primal? If the relic is better, what's the point in doing the EX primal if it drops weapons? Are we going to pull the accessories out of savage and the tome ones to make it work?

The EX primal weapon has a use to raiders even now. The ones that are stuck on O7S can get a weapon upgrade that isn't weekly capped to help them beat it since the i370 weapon is only available from that fight. It also helps returners get a decent weapon without having to deal with weekly tokens from sigma normal, and about 3 weeks of tomes and it's only 5 ilvl lower than the tome upgraded weapon that only O7S clearers have access to.

This is a have your cake and eat it too scenario.

I'm only talking about gear and not glamour btw.

What gear reward do you suggest them putting into Ultimate then if it's not going to be one of the best weapons?

What about Heaven on High? It has a weapon, too. If relic is better what's the point in doing that to get the weapon?

I feel like the current design (basically delaying higher ilvl weapons by a month to give content relevance) allows them to be more flexible in what rewards they can provide.

I mean I guess it might work if it was super grindy (think gordias unidentified step) but then it wouldn't even be a casual weapon anymore. By the time most people finish it a new set of weapons will be out making the work mostly pointless so it would be a wash until the end of expansion, but the relic is already better at end of expansion usually so nothing would really change except it becoming a super grind.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

What would be the point in putting accessories on odd patches for EX primals when you can already get them without doing the EX Primal? If the relic is better, what's the point in doing the EX primal if it drops weapons? Are we going to pull the accessories out of savage and the tome ones to make it work?

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If you read what I wrote, the idea is exactly that only EX primals would drop accessories and tha the only weapons would be in Additionnal content. So, no content would negate another one since they'd all give different slots.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

What gear reward do you suggest them putting into Ultimate then if it's not going to be one of the best weapons?

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Considering Ultimate Weapons are already at the same ilvl as raid weapons, they only marginally improve your character already. So, I'd say something like unique mounts. Or, if the game would actually have more depth, some unique effect on gear, not related to a mathematic advantage.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

If you read what I wrote, the idea is exactly that only EX primals would drop accessories and tha the only weapons would be in Additionnal content. So, no content would negate another one since they'd all give different slots.

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So we're going to completely delete upgraded tome gear and accessories? Because that system falls apart if tome gear still exists. (You need the base ilvl (in this case 360) to provide a reward for the even patch EX primal) Personally, I think that is a really bad idea. So players who don't do EX or raid are stuck at lower ilvls just so they can have a better weapon. Seems like a bad trade. Right now you get everything else after 3 months but the weapon is delayed.

I actually wouldn't mind that personally, but it would really hurt casual players and non raiders. The power gap would widen and they wouldn't be able to join some PFs since their avg ilvl would be lower than someone who does all the harder content. Not to mention having the "BiS" stuff in only certain types of content it will probably get weekly locked vs now where the ilvl is not the "best" but has no weekly lock. (EX weapons)

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Originally Posted by kobe-sabi

"hurr durr I'm a long time player and USAF retired guy and your all rude"

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And yet you obviously completely to fail to understand that relics in this game are usually "glamours" (Everyone else does after all)
If you don't like it...don't bother doing it.

Its how it is...and how it will continue to be as each patch continues to march forward.
Id think someone of your nature would understand that...yet here you are - ranting about it.

But please..continue calling everyone a foolish alpha.
While you also call everyone rude...I'm sure that will make you look very intelligent.