If it’s between Dancer and Chemist for 5.0 which should be our next healer?

Topic, which healer should be included next from these two?

1.) Chemist: A traditional healer that has roots as old as FF tactics as medics.
2.) Dancer: Tends to act as a support job and has over the years gotten some cures that make it a great contender as a healer.

http://www.strawpoll.me/15592227

Chemist. While both would be interesting from a mechanics perspective, I have to say that I'm heartily sick of the soft and robe/dress laden aesthetic that all our healers currently have in game. I truly want to see a healer that also doesn't rely on aetheric healing as well, but that's mostly from a roleplaying perspective. If we had the chance to get both however, I'd more than happily take it.

I'd prefer neither of those to be true healers. I want to see things that cut between the roles, the sooner the better. I know full well what changes would be necessary, systemically and on the communities part, for matchmaking, but I think it's honestly worth it.

Barring that, whichever is the more original and can remain viable while being less of a "standard healer", discounting also singular gimmick sets such as Cards or WHM/SCH style-swap abilities.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Chemist. While both would be interesting from a mechanics perspective, I have to say that I'm heartily sick of the soft and robe/dress laden aesthetic that all our healers currently have in game. I truly want to see a healer that also doesn't rely on aetheric healing as well, but that's mostly from a roleplaying perspective. If we had the chance to get both however, I'd more than happily take it.

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If CHM is added I’m sure they’ll be added to the dresses as well. The only unique look would probably be the AF armor, and they might make some medic/doctor looking healing gear for that expansion set.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'd prefer neither of those to be true healers. I want to see things that cut between the roles, the sooner the better. I know full well what changes would be necessary, systemically and on the communities part, for matchmaking, but I think it's honestly worth it.

Barring that, whichever is the more original and can remain viable while being less of a "standard healer", discounting also singular gimmick sets such as Cards or WHM/SCH style-swap abilities.

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Both would most likely be unique AST is our copycat healer.

Dancer dances while chemist.... chucks vials of potion at you, poisoned blow dart DOT, just saying a chemist administering medicine or poison, even buffs (roids??), personally I can't think of any serious ideas how that's gonna be done. Haven't played older FF games so...

If anything, with the chemist I think of weapons like acids and poison gases, not really pills or IV fluids on the field (man, the jokes just on the pills). It's like you want a chirurgeon on the field when they belong in a clinical setting.

Chemist. I feel like the lore is already set for it.

Chemist would be a nice addition and mechanic rotation...Dnc (dancer) would be great aswell healer/dps like in ff11 that would also be nice for those who wants to heal and dps

Chemist...
I'm hoping Dancer is a Deeps
Cause Yaknow the Troll from waay back when the intro vid to stormblood launched

Dancer as a melee healer with some support elements would make me really happy~

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'd prefer neither of those to be true healers. I want to see things that cut between the roles, the sooner the better. I know full well what changes would be necessary, systemically and on the communities part, for matchmaking, but I think it's honestly worth it.

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This comes up fairly often, but it has some major problems. Not just the matchmaking. You see, we saw this in heavensward 3.0 with Astrologian. It crashed and burned hard.

Anything that can fill a green role needs to be able to make all the healing checks in the game, and somewhat comfortably at that. If it doesn't, it will be shunned. If it does, but has amazing hybrid DPS (All existing healers are DPS/healing hybrids by more traditional games' design) or utilities on top of that, it will obsolete another healer (Another thing we saw, this time with late heavensward AST).

And we already have tanks that can entirely heal themselves through a lot of regular content, so that angle is pretty much already covered.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Chemist. While both would be interesting from a mechanics perspective, I have to say that I'm heartily sick of the soft and robe/dress laden aesthetic that all our healers currently have in game. I truly want to see a healer that also doesn't rely on aetheric healing as well, but that's mostly from a roleplaying perspective. If we had the chance to get both however, I'd more than happily take it.

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For the rest of the thread... couldn't have said it better myself.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

This comes up fairly often, but it has some major problems. Not just the matchmaking. You see, we saw this in heavensward 3.0 with Astrologian. It crashed and burned hard.

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Astrologian has never moved towards or away from a standard healer template since its release. It merely gained power, both to raw healing and to (though reverted in SB) card potency. Its problem was that it was undertuned--nothing more. It likely could have been far less "minor variant to template slot A, minor variant to template slot B" and still reached a competitive state in 8-mans so long as it was properly tuned.

Why was Astrologian so desirable around the end of Heavensward? Because it was the go-to example of overtuning, the devs having classically overbuffed the toolkit in place of fixing its mechanical issues (e.g. Extend generally being useless with any Spread ready due to the added duration being wasted, weaker card effects overriding stronger, etc., etc.).

I'm wholly aware of short- vs. long-term benchmarking and the disadvantages a indirect contributor or primary output (i.e. rDPS)-focused job specialized categorically towards short-term goals (healing) can face during early progression and that its competitors would face during post-progression, provided there is imbalance between their growth curves or the distinct job attempts to make itself distinct by niche, rather than gameplay. And yes, there is imbalance over time in every example by which you might compare indirect and direct contributors in this game. Whether it's Ninja versus Samurai, Dragoon versus Black Mage, White Mage versus Astrologian, one side sees far higher rDPS consistency, while the other strikes that equilibrium in one comp, pales to it in another, and renders the competitor obsolete in yet another. That is the way the game works already, due to unintended issues of scaling. If that's not acceptable for new job concepts, then it shouldn't be acceptable now either. The scaling procedures need, then, to be fixed, to see far tighter total-throughput consistency across jobs.

The bottom line is that I don't want to be a minor variations on a Tank template (category A+2, B-1, C+1, D-2, E+1, F-1). I want to be a Paladin, a Warrior, a White Mage, a Scholar, a Ninja, a Samurai, etc. Even where specifically-defined or categorized parity is desirable, it can come from original conceptualizations, rather than patterned noise laid over a template. I feel it's important to allow the widest possible range of content to each job -- and to find distinction by gameplay, not niche--but I have no issue with finding x job more desirable for x set of mechanics. I'd much rather the game actually take their "all jobs on one character" concept and run with it, rather than attempt to make the experience made for and by each job interchangeable. We've never played less than 3 jobs at a time in any FF single-player game, and with quick access to the whole remaining roster, with whatever advantages and disadvantages they may have. Why should we go unpunished at all if we choose to, let alone encouraged by weekly caps and level-proportionate rested bonuses to, tunnel-vision on just one job per role, sacrificing our own and others' plethora of experiences otherwise available in seeking overspecific benchmarks of parity (and being wholly forced into design by template to meet those benchmarks)?

Hell, insofar as regular content (or really anything but fixed, "cutting-edge" content) goes, you can look at some of the compositional scaling systems WoW and a couple other MMOs have been working on: if a given healer provides only 7/10 the "standard" raw healing, the challenge retunes the raw damage output to something just barely manageable given the utilities across said healer, the DPS, and the tank, and excess of role-specific traits on the tank himself. Different experience, with as close of parity in intensity as two runs of the same standard composition by different players.

No. It was undertuned at launch, yes, but that's not all that's wrong. SE has created a problem they'll never be free of.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The bottom line is that I don't want to be a minor variations on a Tank template (category A+2, B-1, C+1, D-2, E+1, F-1). I want to be a Paladin, a Warrior, a White Mage, a Scholar, a Ninja, a Samurai, etc.

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Sure. And Scholar is probably the best example of that. And if SE can make another healer that isn't copy-paste WHM spells, we may have that again.

The problem is in asking for a hybrid role. All healers in this game are hybrid DPS. So if by asking for a hybrid DPS/healer what you mean is higher DPS output, all the problems in my earlier post still apply:

Either the healing will be too weak to be considered viable, or it will be able to meet the heal checks comfortably and someone's getting benched because this new job would just be the same, but better.

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but I have no issue with finding x job more desirable for x set of mechanics.

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You might not care about that because anyone can switch to any job... but a lot of people do care. A lot of people want to be able to play their choice job because they enjoy it, and not be included or excluded based on the presence of some gimmick in a fight, or lack thereof. Specializing jobs like this isn't a new concept in gaming. It makes them mandatory for whatever content has their specialist gimmick, and trash for everything else (unless they're OP and good at everything, anyways). It's not good design.

In any case, the concept was tried in principal: What if a given healer only provided 7/10 of raw healing but brought other stuff to the table? That was literally AST at launch. If it didn't work for AST, it's not going to work for another hybrid healer concept. And if you made the content scale down the healing required, that's effectively the same as giving the job the same healing output as the others (just a lot more convoluted).

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Either the healing will be too weak to be considered viable, or it will be able to meet the heal checks comfortably and someone's getting benched because this new job would just be the same, but better.

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You're applying the concept to only a single role, when it would need to be applied systemically. Any ability to diversify a given role would be dependent on diversification in other roles as well, or at absolute minimum in one's partner in that role, or in the case of a healer, again, on the

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utilities across said healer, the DPS, and the tank, and excess of role-specific traits on the tank himself.

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So let's ignore that you've been ignoring everything I've said in regards to niching, or distinction by gameplay rather than by theoretical output, and just put it this way:

Let's say I have a healer with less raw healing. But, I have a tank with more "raw" or burst defense available to it.

Depending on the sync, there's no rDPS, e-rHPS, or eTTK change. The change, if actually limited to power-niching rather than gameplay, would simply be that a party can now choose to be especially defensive or offensive. The prior is technically new, unless you count such contributions as taking Monk almost solely for Mantra or double ranged or double caster solely for the extra Palisade/Apoc, rather than the rDPS advantages of rDPS-inflating comp, but the latter is something we already have right now, and are apparently mostly okay with (even if I might prefer that AST had more raw healing, in its own damn way, rather than through yet more potency buffs on copy-pasted skills, or that WHM saw small DPS bonuses born of time spent on its HPS in a way that makes use of its base Conjury themes or the idea of soul-draw from early WHM quests to push it towards tighter parity in post-prog).

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

The problem is in asking for a hybrid role. All healers in this game are hybrid DPS.

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And not since Everquest II has it seemed exceptable to any reasonable design team for them not to be. If one can only contribute to a capped resource (damage taken), they face necessary waste of uptime. That increasingly takes away from engagement at minimum, and can only maintain viability if damage inputs are already plagued with imbalances that leaves people effectively afk part of the time, and pissing themselves the remainder, or vice-versa; short of such issues, they are swapped out for a hybrid because at least it can still do something with the otherwise 90% wasted time.

There is only one long-term goal in FFXIV's fights: damage dealt. That isn't an MMO design rule; that's FFXIV's own self-inflicted restriction. Every XIV fight ends with the enemy or enemies' death. Thus, every fight is won through damage. Surviving merely maintains damage throughput. The purpose of any healer or tank is damage. Whether that's more effective in a given situation or strategy through direct or indirect means will vary. (As XIV healers stand almost laughably high in their relative power curve compared to damage-dealers, contributing towards survival -- though as efficiently as possible -- will virtually always exceed direct contribution.) To treat them as solely healers or tanks, therefore, is disingenuous. They are simply party members with additional healing specialization; that is not the end-all-be-all of what they do.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

You might not care about that because anyone can switch to any job... but a lot of people do care. A lot of people want to be able to play their choice job because they enjoy it, and not be included or excluded based on the presence of some gimmick in a fight, or lack thereof. Specializing jobs like this isn't a new concept in gaming. It makes them mandatory for whatever content has their specialist gimmick, and trash for everything else (unless they're OP and good at everything, anyways). It's not good design.

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1. That goes hand in hand with the sentence that follows it. At present, I don't think such a design philosophy would be as sensible as it should be; if, however, XIV actually made something of its "all in one" mentality or allowed greater depth and breadth in job toolkits, then yes, I'd be fine with it.

"I really like having Clemency available for the healer jail, but if we take a Dark Knight for <TBN> and have the Warrior <Warcry> before the White Mage goes it, it can pummel it so fast that we shouldn't need the pre-shielding of a Minne+Mantra+Conv Deployment." Those are vitally different ways to handle a mechanic/situation based on composition. That's what I want more of. That's quite distinct from "Warrior Veil first, then real Veil, then knockoff DRK Veil" that we're moving towards.

I am NOT asking for a job to be better for a given fight, or I would have said "fight", and certainly NOT asking for it to be made necessary by a gimmick or to tick off a compositional check box. You should be able to glean my opinion of such gimmicks by now, I would think.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

And if you made the content scale down the healing required, that's effectively the same as giving the job the same healing output as the others (just a lot more convoluted).

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The per-serious-level content that exists only to engage the players enjoyably, rather than to set a fixed, math-able challenge? Let's be clear about the parameters set. I've recommended no such adjustments for content that actually requires experience-based design already. But I see no reason why you should leave content less engaging just because it needs to allow for a larger relative amount of variance with just 4 players, or less synergistic alliances, if given the option instead to scale its outputs and mechanics to the toolkits brought thereto.

[Bold] Is that not what using Shield Oath unnecessarily is? You trade off healer DPS for tank DPS, making things more convoluted. Heck, isn't literally every toolkit that has anything more than direct damage, healing, or absorption do... exactly that? What a player considers complexity (or better yet, depth) enough to be engaging will vary from player to player... So why should we say that everything above the current line (or even trading complexity for depth, for instance) be somehow innately superfluous or redundant? So I have to make use of a given tool more than the next guy, and sync my outputs around its compensation, gaining a rarer unique advantage in exchange? What's innately wrong or overly convoluted about that?

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

In any case, the concept was tried in principal: What if a given healer only provided 7/10 of raw healing but brought other stuff to the table? That was literally AST at launch.

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AST wasn't just given a penalty in raw healing, though. It was penalized across the board, and left with only RNG to mitigate that. That isn't a trial of distinct (albeit it more complicated) means of competitive output. That's a trial of niche, or replacing healing floor with chance damage bonus. And, for the fourth time, I have no interest in niche. Niche is not what I've been referring to. I want distinct ways of approaching the content, not distinct contents to which a job is applicable. Distinction by gameplay, not niche. NOT niche.

Consider, for instance, if Astrologian actually had control of its cards. I am in no way recommending such a gross change, but just consider. If in lacking in potency on spammable heals AST was nonetheless able to balance out damage input to match that reduced output (such as through Bole or whatever revised card or cards or system of cards), that raw healing disadvantage would just be something AST works around, and plays differently as a consequence of, rather than setting a benchmark that leaves it benched until x time and to bench its competitors shortly after said time.

You can have a raw healing disadvantage and still reach parity in survival provided. It just comes from anything but raw healing.

If one cannot allow for distinctions in how one approaches the difficulties of a fight between toolkits A, B, and C, beyond merely swapping out CD timings to the same effect, then what do you have left by which to love a given job? It may as well be a skin, where you use a .dat file to rename Opener, Combo1-Mid, Combo 2-Mid, Combo1-Finisher, Combo2-Finisher1, (Combo2-Finisher2), ShortCD, MidCD, Immunity/Full. If there's no significant difference in the experience providable then... what did it really add to the game? I get that even by that logic, DPS can still be distinct, if only because they're actually tailored towards the real, primary output by which fights are won, and DPS checks tend to be at least a little less rigid than healing checks or tankbusters, but if design would go so far as to require raw healing (i.e. spammable heal potency) parity just because they can't tool a kit sufficiently to allow for another way to achieve survival in their fights with a given disadvantage there (and advantage elsewhere, as it still concerns survival), then tank and healer available design breadth is screwed. The best we can hope for at that point is to track every standard output curve and then slot it as differently as possible and merely hope it actually plays different in more than just button-flow.

I want to play dancer...

But, there's already several dps classes I like, so I'd prefer it in another role.
Healing, or maybe even tank...

Might actually be tempted to actually play tank then...

Chemist has used guns before and I would love to see the Machinist guns get used by a healer as well. I am actually much in favor of Machinist and Chemist having the same split as Summoner and Scholar with a healing tuned turret being brought out for the occasion. They could even use the same gear with turret being responsible for almost all the healing but with a myriad of cool downs that must be managed appropriately between the Chemist Weapon Skills. The Chemist "cast" times could just be the player reconfiguring the healing turret for 8 seconds to raise a player or constantly reconfiguring the turret to reset it's healing cool downs. I love the Chemist in theory and realize it can go in thousand directions with enough creativity

Dancer.

The game needs another Dex based melee class to balance it out (should have been sam, but that's another story)

I hope Dancer as a healer. Uses TP and MP for heals

I’ve been dreaming bout dancer as healer for so so long. I neeeeeeeed ;-;

Chemist, so I can glamour myself as the Medic from TF2.

"DOCTOR, ARE YOU SURE THIS WILL WORK!?" "I HAVE NO IDEA! *maniacal laughter*"

Porque no los dos

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Porque no los dos

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Si, senor(ita)

Porque este thread es para 5.0 solamente

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Dancer.

The game needs another Dex based melee class to balance it out (should have been sam, but that's another story)

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Game could do with it's pointless duplicate stats and redundant gear sets removing.

Dancer healer with melee damage instead of ranged would be neat though.

I would be sorely disappointed by Chemist, it sounds very unattractive both gear and weapon wise. Dancer should be the "bard" of healers with different dance buffs. I don't think it needs to be melee? Then again I'm thinking dancer is a dancer and closer to AST and not a fancily dressed NIN cutting into mobs from close range.

i think i wont be able to concentrate that much on the fight just because a dancer's constantly seducing my character

Why is Dancer even in this question? Dancer had never been a healer. It's a dps with some healing ability like RDM. We had this debate about RDM being a healer, and everyone was complaining and guess what? RDM, as predicted, released as a DPS. FFXI's Dancer was imo the best solo job in the game. Great dps, TP based healing and buffs. Also, Dancer's use Daggers or Knives as weapons.

Dancers with staves, books or globes or wands? Really? Come on people. Chemist uses items to heal allies. THEY can be considered for a healing position but Dancer? Yeah, not gonna happen and if it does, I would have lost all faith in SE.

From the ffxi wiki:

Dancers are capable healers ND While it may not be wise for them to be the main healer of a group until level 74, two functioning together can, in most cases, eliminate the need for an MP-based healer. Also, Dancer is one of the only jobs offering the Dual Wield trait, which it gains at level 20. The other jobs are Ninja at 10, Thief at 83 and Blue Mage, with the proper spells set, at 80.

Sooooo....

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

From the ffxi wiki:
Dancers are capable healers ND While it may not be wise for them to be the main healer of a group until level 74, two functioning together can, in most cases, eliminate the need for an MP-based healer. Also, Dancer is one of the only jobs offering the Dual Wield trait, which it gains at level 20. The other jobs are Ninja at 10, Thief at 83 and Blue Mage, with the proper spells set, at 80. Sooooo....

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You forget this: Dancers used TP for healing. And they were subjected to CDs. MP based healers with their healing spells are not. TP based healing is not a recommended main healing method unless you are a dps. Healers MP (Mana) in game has very high. What use would Dancer have for MP? The Answer: Nothing. They relied on TP for their healing among other things. Your argument is moot.

Thank you for playing. Try again. GG

Dancer can use a bit of TP and MP for healing, if they want to implement it they will find a way. I can see ffxiv dancer having a high TP pool and a low MP pool. Some DPS classes have Goad so they can give it to DNC just like magical DPS can give Mana shift to healers

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Originally Posted by Usho

You forget this: Dancers used TP for healing. And they were subjected to CDs. MP based healers with their healing spells are not. TP based healing is not a recommended main healing method unless you are a dps. Healers MP (Mana) in game has very high. What use would Dancer have for MP? The Answer: Nothing. They relied on TP for their healing among other things. Your argument is moot.

Thank you for playing. Try again. GG

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Jeez.. Plenty of people came up with perfectly viable means of making a melee healer, you just gotta be creative. Powerful regen dances, MP to TP conversion, skills that damage or heal. skills that damage and heal, Heal the party member with the highest enmity... etc etc, Its not hard to come up with different but viable concepts.

If its not the Dancer you want, than I'm sorry but trying to act like developers or fans have to play by some strict guideline or limit prevents enjoyment and fun for everyone, including those who try to enforce such limitations

Not to spoil it, if people played trough the SB MSQ or ASt story line they should of seen the hint they gave -.- NPC Kyokuho

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Not to spoil it, if people played trough the SB MSQ they should of seen the hint they gave -.-

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well, I don't recall any hint they gave at Geomancy during the MSQ, unless you mean the AST storyline. Though they do seem to be hinting at Geomancers/geomancy playing a bigger part in the future, as the 4.3 Dungeon lore now states that the dungeon is not just a tomb for an ancient general, but also the founder of Geomancy

In most polls I see on, dancer seems lead in the polls. I wonder what they are hoping for on the Japanese servers? I pray they listen and give us dancer.

Geomancer would be better as a dps because I think it would be too close to WHM to be a healer.

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Originally Posted by Usho

They relied on TP for their healing among other things. Your argument is moot.
Thank you for playing. Try again. GG

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And you could easily make Dancer use MP for their dances instead or a combination of TP/MP for their kit. So what argument? Dancer could heal in FFXI this is a fact, doesn't mean FFXIV's Dancer would have to be exactly the same and have to use TP. Even if it did it could work if designed properly.

What resource they use is such a minor thing compared to simply how the job flows and is played.

I mean its fine for you to not like the idea of Dancer as a healer and prefer Chemist, everyone has opinions, but this level of salt towards other people is just like....why? Relax a little?

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Originally Posted by Miste

I mean its fine for you to not like the idea of Dancer as a healer and prefer Chemist, everyone has opinions, but this level of salt towards other people is just like....why? Relax a little?

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Salt for who? You don't even say who I have salt for, yet you want to come at me? Okay. First of all, I like how you jump on the bandwagon of people who want to bite my head off for stating my opinion and the facts of how Dancer is how it wouldn't be good as a main healer, yet you tell me to relax? For voicing my opinion or objection? You must new to debates missy. This is a opinion based thread with people who have their own bias about these kinds of jobs and I'm doing what the thread is intended for, stating my opinion, while also using facts to state why it shouldn't be a healer. If it causes a small debate, then it's fine, it was more civil than more threads I see like this on this board.


Next time, instead of jumping on the bandwagon to gang up on someone for voicing an opinion or debating an opinion, how about you either come up with a better counter punch or mind your own business?

I want to say chemist because the mix mechanic people have made so far sounds really fun and engaging, but I also want to say dancer because a melee healer (melee dps rotation, ranged/aoe heals) is totally different and I personally like melee over ranged(I find myself doing better at battle mechanics at melee than ranged). I haven't played Ast so I haven't heard about the Geomancer stuff, but I'm sure they'd find a way to make it unique. Healer feels like the role they've excelled at with balance and game play and I'd be ok with whatever they decide (just pls not another double dps expansion)

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Originally Posted by Usho

Next time, instead of jumping on the bandwagon to gang up on someone for voicing an opinion or debating an opinion, how about you either come up with a better counter punch or mind your own business?

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Chill, dawg.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Salt for who? You don't even say who I have salt for, yet you want to come at me? Okay. First of all, I like how you jump on the bandwagon of people who want to bite my head off for stating my opinion and the facts of how Dancer is how it wouldn't be good as a main healer, yet you tell me to relax? For voicing my opinion or objection? You must new to debates missy. This is a opinion based thread with people who have their own bias about these kinds of jobs and I'm doing what the thread is intended for, stating my opinion, while also using facts to state why it shouldn't be a healer. If it causes a small debate, then it's fine, it was more civil than more threads I see like this on this board.


Next time, instead of jumping on the bandwagon to gang up on someone for voicing an opinion or debating an opinion, how about you either come up with a better counter punch or mind your own business?

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You're using premises that have absolutely no lasting weight in order to dismiss entire concepts. What Dancer was, as with any other XIV job, has zero technical pull on what it could be or likely would be in XIV. It carries, at most, precedent aesthetic; all else is replaceable.

Unless that level of fallacy is somehow unintentional, I don't see how you're even attempting to debate an opinion, yourself.

Are you under the impression that debate is simply an exchange of fallacious jabs or that logic permits details of one concept or system to then be applied to an entirely different concept or system? It's not, and they cannot.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Okay. First of all, I like how you jump on the bandwagon of people who want to bite my head off for stating my opinion and the facts of how Dancer is how it wouldn't be good as a main healer, yet you tell me to relax?

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Please show me where I "bit your head off"?

You posted your opinion on a public forum.

I replied to your post with my opinion about the topic and about your post.

I am totally relaxed, and I politely told you that it seems you are being unnecessarily salty instead of simply discussing the topic and questioned you why you feel it necessary to do that.

Don't like to hear my opinion about your post? That's too bad sir, since you posted it in a public forum where others can reply with their opinions about your post.

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Originally Posted by Usho

You must new to debates missy.

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Nope, I am definitely not, but you may be? Since it seems you have an issue with someone replying to your posts. Having a debate in a public forum means you may have people like me reply to you. This isn't an echo chamber.

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Originally Posted by Usho

This is a opinion based thread with people who have their own bias about these kinds of jobs and I'm doing what the thread is intended for, stating my opinion, while also using facts to state why it shouldn't be a healer.

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Yeah, you stated your opinion and I chose to state mine.

Public Forum, remember?

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Originally Posted by Usho

Next time, instead of jumping on the bandwagon to gang up on someone for voicing an opinion or debating an opinion, how about you either come up with a better counter punch or mind your own business?

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Oh, dear sir, I did not "gang up" on you.

You shouldn't post in a public forum if you are afraid of counter opinions or that people might reply to you with their opinions about what you publicly posted.

You can't ask someone else to mind their own business about your opinions when you are posting them in a public discussion forum where anyone can reply with their opinion as freely as you were able to post yours.

Think about what you just posted and reflect on the hypocrisy therein.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Why is Dancer even in this question? Dancer had never been a healer. It's a dps with some healing ability like RDM. We had this debate about RDM being a healer, and everyone was complaining and guess what? RDM, as predicted, released as a DPS. FFXI's Dancer was imo the best solo job in the game. Great dps, TP based healing and buffs. Also, Dancer's use Daggers or Knives as weapons.

Dancers with staves, books or globes or wands? Really? Come on people. Chemist uses items to heal allies. THEY can be considered for a healing position but Dancer? Yeah, not gonna happen and if it does, I would have lost all faith in SE.

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Okay, let's break down some of this into managable bits.

"Why is Dancer even in this question?"
Because it has been widely asked for by the playerbase. Because we will likely see a tank and healer in 5.0 in response to the 2 dps in 4.0. Because at this point it is perhaps the single most requested addition to the game, up there with Viera and butt sliders. Because SE tends to go feminine with healer animations and attire and there isn't a more feminine job in the FF universe.

"It's a DPS with some healing ability like RDM." + Other FFXI related stuff
Why would the function of a class in FFXI relate directly to the way it works in FFXIV? From my understanding NIN was a viable tank in XI, it modt certainly is not in XIV. They are separate games. In FFT Dancers had a unique weapon - cloths. That could definitely be seen as a more "healer friendly" fighting style and could easily lend it's self to MP or TP based combat.

You seem incredibly opposed to this but for no reason that holds up under even mild scrutiny- are you okay? You're getting really agitated, acting like SE including Dancer as a healer would be some sort of personal insult to you. I think you should take a step back and relax before you say something you regret or that lands you in hot water.